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    Console makers gag developers with NDAs regarding actual console power differences

    BAM!
    GC: So, just finally, I have to ask: why does the PlayStation 4 version look so much better than the Xbox One? Is the resolution really the only difference?

    MR: [laughs] Yep, it’s the only difference. The TVs are different on some of them, but… they both have their different rendering engines but they’re as close as possible. It really comes down to resolution. Xbox is upscaled 720, it’s outputting at 1080p but it’s upscaled from 720. Whereas PlayStation 4 is native 1080p. So that’s really the only graphical difference. But it is enough. Some people here are saying they don’t really notice a difference…

    GC: Was that the guy with the white stick?

    MR: [laugh] But yeah, the PS4 looks really good.

    GC: Is the PC version still better?

    MR: There’s actually some features that we’ve added to the PC that are definitively not on any other generation. We worked with Nvidia a lot with this, but we have a different form of anti-aliasing that’s really new and advanced – that isn’t on current or next gen. We have a fur shader on the dog and on the wolves, they actually have a moving fur shader that works really well, for PC. And the third one, which I think is one of the coolest ones, is we’re using Nvidia’s APEX Turbulence tech to have smoke that actually wisps and waves and moves out of the way of objects.

    GC: So is that something the new consoles can’t do or you just didn’t have time to implement it?

    MR: No, it’s… well, you can do almost anything, almost. Tessellation can’t be done on current gen for the most part, because it’s a DirectX 11 feature, but we could still do it but you’d get a frame rate of 2. So that really becomes the reason we do everything: the reason the Xbox One is 720, the reason the PlayStation 4 is 1080 is we’re trying to make the game look as good as it possible can and making sure we maintain our 60 frames per second.

    We maintain the latency and the speed and the things that people actually care about. Even if they won’t admit it, the thing that makes Call Of Duty popular is how it feels, because of those priorities.

    GC: So the obvious assumption from all this is that the PlayStation 4 is definitely more powerful than the Xbox One, is that true?

    MR: [acting very embarrassed] I can’t answer that.

    GC: You can’t answer it on a technical level or because you’re being diplomatic?

    MR: Can’t answer that.

    GC: You can’t say whether you’re avoiding the question for diplomatic reasons?

    MR: [embarrassed] I just can’t say anything…

    [Even the attending PR guy is looking embarrassed by this point]

    PR guy: It’s very hard for us to be…

    GC: Are the console manufacturers leaning on you to avoid these sort of questions?

    MR: [unsure - speaking to PR guy] I don’t know if that…

    MR: [even more embarrassed to us] Yeah, there’s things that we… We sign NDAs with the first parties [i.e. Microsoft and Sony - GC] and there are things that we’re not allowed to talk about.

    GC: So when John Carmack and Shinji Mikami say the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are almost identical, is that something you could agree with?

    MR: Hmm… I would say that’s a bit inaccurate but I wouldn’t be able to tell you any detail of why that’s inaccurate.

    GC: For diplomatic reasons?

    MR: Yes.

    GC: Okay, that’s fine. I think we can all read between those lines. But that’s absurd, how can they not except any journalist, any reasonable journalist, not to ask that question? It’s what everyone wants to know.

    MR: [still feeling very awkward] The key thing is we try to focus people away from that sort of thing and try to focus them on the fact that the game is fun no matter what platform it’s on.

    GC: Do you think with the next game you make there will there be such an obvious disparity between the two formats?

    MR: Unknown… But over time… If you look at Call Of Duty 2 compared to COD 4 there’s a massive graphic difference, they look very different. So I think we’ll get better, yes.

    GC: But will that same proportional gap always be there?

    MR: Don’t know. Until we get there I honestly don’t know. To be not diplomatic or anything [laughs] we really don’t know. We’ve done as much as we can in the time we have to get where we’re at. Will they close the gap? Will they go off in the opposite direction? Who knows? But for this game it is what it is.

    GC: Do you think everyone else will have these same problems? All these other cross-generational games that are out at launch?

    MR: Well, I think they’ve already said they are haven’t they? Battlefield 4 is 720 on Xbox One and I think 900 on PS4? Titanfall has said they’re 720… So we’re not the first to say we’re 720 on the Xbox One.
    http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/05/call-o...about-4173810/

    So, there you have it. Every developer saying that the systems are similar in performance are absolutely 100% full of $#@! because the NDA staples their balls to a boardroom somewhere in Redmond WA.

    Why bother making a powerful system when you have a small army of lawyers chomping at the bit for someone to just be honest on a simple question? Thank you Based Microsoft.
    Last edited by Ghost; 11-05-2013 at 22:19. Reason: Adjusting title for accuracy

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    Mark Rubin: Carmack and Mikami “a Bit Inaccurate” on PS4 and Xbox One Being Almost Id

    I guess this is why the NDA is now in place.

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/11/...ost-identical/

    Call of Duty: Ghosts Producer Mark Rubin was interviewed today by Metro, and the interview took a rather weird turn as he was asked about the difference between Xbox One and PS4, with Rubin and a PR representative almost literally at a loss for words, and not because they didn’t want to respond.All started with a relatively innocent question on whether the game’s resolution is the only difference between PS4 and Xbox One, and then things went downhill from there, with Rubin and the PR rep getting increasingly embarrassed as they were pressed with questions, and mentioning that they couldn’t say much due to non disclosure agreements they signed with the first parties (Microsoft and Sony).
    Towards the end of the ordeal, Rubin was asked if he agrees with John Carmack and Shinji Mikami when they say that Xbox One and PS4 are almost identical:
    Hmm… I would say that’s a bit inaccurate but I wouldn’t be able to tell you any detail of why that’s inaccurate.
    When asked if he couldn’t elaborate further due to diplomatic reasons he confirmed, and explained that normally the reason behind this kind of response is an attempt to draw the attention of gamers away from technical details and back to the fact that the game is fun on every platform.
    The key thing is we try to focus people away from that sort of thing and try to focus them on the fact that the game is fun no matter what platform it’s on.
    Rubin also admitted that he has no idea on the possibility of the power gap between the two platforms closing in the future.
    Don’t know. Until we get there I honestly don’t know. To be not diplomatic or anything [laughs] we really don’t know. We’ve done as much as we can in the time we have to get where we’re at. Will they close the gap? Will they go off in the opposite direction? Who knows? But for this game it is what it is.
    Who to believe? Carmack and Mikami or Mark Rubin? One thing is for sure: you rarely see a developer put with his back against a corner like this. It’s funny to see the mainstream press manage to do what the gaming press rarely dares to attempt. To be fair they also have the power to do so, but maybe we should push a little more ourselves, shouldn’t we?



    Source: Metro
    It looks like more devs might start doing this. Man this is getting real messy.

    Last edited by Saigon; 11-05-2013 at 21:12.

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    where does it stipulate MS has a legal contract? I just see them, being embarrassed/diplomatic for not wanting to offend MS - not mentioning any legal detail though.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    honestly it is sad moment. im not a big fan of MS and everyone here is know that, but this is just unfair to the ppl who support them with their wallets by making preorders. all that people hear is rp bull$#@! like power of the cloud, balance, 1080p output and now this nda
    Last edited by FireSol; 11-05-2013 at 21:27.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireSol View Post
    honestly it is sad moment. im not a big fan of MS and everyone here is know that, but this is just unfair to the ppl who support them with their wallets by making preorders. all that people hear is rp bull$#@! like power of the cloud, balance, 1080p output and now this nda

    Its not a sad moment, this is standard NDA stuff that both Sony and Nintendo and Microsoft all make third part publishers sign, and they have been doing it for years.

    Go find a quote where IW told us that the PS3 was less powerfull than the 360 because they couldn't maintain res parity.
    You wont find one. Even though that is exactly what happened.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    where does it stipulate MS has a legal contract? I just see them, being embarrassed/diplomatic for not wanting to offend MS - not mentioning any legal detail though.
    GC: Are the console manufacturers leaning on you to avoid these sort of questions?

    MR: [unsure - speaking to PR guy] I don’t know if that…

    MR: [even more embarrassed to us] Yeah, there’s things that we… We sign NDAs with the first parties [i.e. Microsoft and Sony - GC] and there are things that we’re not allowed to talk about.

    GC: So when John Carmack and Shinji Mikami say the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are almost identical, is that something you could agree with?

    MR: Hmm… I would say that’s a bit inaccurate but I wouldn’t be able to tell you any detail of why that’s inaccurate.

    GC: For diplomatic reasons?

    MR: Yes.
    Some anonymous devs will likely speak on these differences after launch and certain people will go into denial again.
    Destiny is going to be EVERYTHING that EA and MS hoped titanfall would be

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    I think this NDA is normal to have before the consoles come out. Once the consoles come out, the developers can say what they want but not before. Plus, they don't want to ruin their sales on both games, they won't praise a console over the other in risking more sales. Now if the sales are noticably more on one console over the other...they will definitely say what they want. just not before everything happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Its not a sad moment, this is standard NDA stuff that both Sony and Nintendo and Microsoft all make third part publishers sign, and they have been doing it for years. Go find a quote where IW told us that the PS3 was less powerfull than the 360 because they couldn't maintain res parity. You wont find one. Even though that is exactly what happened.
    No it wasn't. PS3 wasn't less powerful. Just a pain to code for. Certain PS3 exclusives were unmatched by anything on 360 graphically.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 11-05-2013 at 21:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    PS3 wasn't less powerful though.
    For IW it was.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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    So, because they admit to signing NDA with Sony and Microsoft, the thread title gets a nod to Microsoft gagging the developers? That makes no sense whatsoever.




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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    For IW it was.
    Lmao! Well certain PS3 exclusives unmatched by anything on 360 definitely contradict that theory. IW just keeps lazily coding the same outdated engine.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 11-05-2013 at 21:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    So, because they admit to signing NDA with Sony and Microsoft, the thread title gets a nod to Microsoft gagging the developers? That makes no sense whatsoever.
    Yeah I dont get it either. They signed NDA with MS AND Sony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    Some anonymous devs will likely speak on these differences after launch and certain people will go into denial again.
    Thanks for that, missed it in the text.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Lmao! Well certain PS3 exclusives unmatched by anything on 360 definitely contradict that theory. IW just keeps lazily coding the same outdated engine.
    Agreed, you'll get no argument from me there.
    Asking them to comment on power is like asking a NES dev to talk about current gen consoles.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

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  23. #15
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    Well, I see this a little bit differently. It looks like they aren't sticking to the general entertainment message by doing this. They must have known they were making a much weaker system in performance from the start. Instead of like, embracing that and focusing on the entertainment aspect of the Xbox One, they are back-peddaling to get into a power struggle they can't possibly win.

    It is a shame, though. Never seen developers just not be able to answer a straight-forward question like this before. Doesn't seem to be in the best interest of gamers, that's for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Agreed, you'll get no argument from me there. Asking them to comment on power is like asking a NES dev to talk about current gen consoles.
    lol Thats a good one. That deserves a like.

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    That journo really went for it!

    BF4 and COD still have XB1 embargoes. kinda odd. PS4 lifted theirs days ago o_O
    Sig courtesy of the_jim


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    http://www.cinemablend.com/games/xbo...sts-60354.html

    BTW, the framerate dips on the XBone version as well (Still can't believe I'm calling it that now hahaha)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    That journo really went for it!

    BF4 and COD still have XB1 embargoes. kinda odd. PS4 lifted theirs days ago o_O
    They sure are hiding something
    Destiny is going to be EVERYTHING that EA and MS hoped titanfall would be

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    NDA doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. According to a dice developer, MS still has a NDA in place regarding hardware. This could get really interesting in about a week.

  32. #21
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    Lol well they can't hide forever

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    LAWD that balance

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2IyEjAS0kG0

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    LAWD that balance

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2IyEjAS0kG0

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    Don't make no sense for them to be making billions of dollars and can't even make a new engine.
    Destiny is going to be EVERYTHING that EA and MS hoped titanfall would be

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    The next call of Duty will be the one to get just like mw did this generation

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  36. #25
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    At least this journalist had some actual bloody integrity and pushed the hard questions. Didn't start making excuses for them or MS and certainly didn't softball it.

    The gaming media has really disgusted me recently with how they're treating all of this. Instead of actually reporting and communicating to the end consumer (gamers), they just cover their ass and regurgitate PR fed platitudes to ensure no one steps on any toes. We already knew this happened to an extent with various big game publishers and the like, but the past few weeks have really been damning on the credibility of just about every major outlet for "gaming reviews and news".

    Repugnant.

    If I can play a better looking game (regardless of whether it's marginally better or head and shoulders better) for $100 less, and let's leave the differences there for a moment, why should this warrant an immediate foray into apologetics for the other box?

    When you get down to it, apart from some multimedia functionality, you're not really losing anything by going with the PS4 outside of what Kinect 2 brings to the table.

    Both play BluRay movies. Both have built in WiFi. Both are designed to run cool and quiet..

    However:

    You're getting non-walled off services and subscriptions you already paid for, a service that is both cheaper and objectively has superior value for the price (PS+ vs XBL Gold), a hard drive you can swap out yourself, smaller form factor and considerably more grunt.

    For 100 USD less.

    None of this matters, somehow, to the press or various tech outlets though.


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