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  1. #26
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    So that store get robs a lot an ppl there knew this? Hmm I'm pretty sure those two robbers family member knew about this, hell they might even made the recommendation.

    "u need money? Just rob that fool down the street, it easy man, my potna did it last week. Dude soft, he ain't got no guns b"

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    Sucks that 2 people died but they brought it on themselves. If you're going to commit armed theft in a country where firearms are legal then surely you'd expect a chance you could get shot yourself

  3. #28
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    I don't believe anyone deserved to die and i dont believe this mans life was at risk until he decided to get involved at a time where he felt it was to his advantage. I don't think the family should press charges but I do feel is that what this citizen did was incrediably stupid there could have been a 3rd man involved in the robbery who could have chosen to take his life in revenge then we would have 3 dead bodies and 1 man in prison. The family should not press charges what could they possible expect to get a murder conviction? Are they gonna claim this man is a vigilanty? The citizen will walk free because the law allows it and he will have a new story to brag to his friends and family about and advocate how its so great to have concealded carry. I really think a vast majority of gun owners here in the states are just as eagar to use their weapons to kill as criminals are. The only way I'd kill another person is if its my last resort I wouldn't dare shoot a person whos on my lawn claiming they will harm me or my family but if he pulled or reached for a weapon I would gladly send him to an early grave. This whole situation is just terrible two dead men over $200 and some donuts. This citizen was an oppertunist he knew the law was on his side and chose to act when he would have the advantage. instead of letting them get away he exacerbated the situation leading to the death of 2 men and a pat on the back from the community. Does he get free drinks for life now? I'm not 100% behind the citizen because he created the situation by confronting them and i cant say im 100% with the family. The family of the robbers cant possibly expect to have a case against this man.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hood View Post
    I don't believe anyone deserved to die and i dont believe this mans life was at risk until he decided to get involved at a time where he felt it was to his advantage. I don't think the family should press charges but I do feel is that what this citizen did was incrediably stupid there could have been a 3rd man involved in the robbery who could have chosen to take his life in revenge then we would have 3 dead bodies and 1 man in prison. The family should not press charges what could they possible expect to get a murder conviction? Are they gonna claim this man is a vigilanty? The citizen will walk free because the law allows it and he will have a new story to brag to his friends and family about and advocate how its so great to have concealded carry. I really think a vast majority of gun owners here in the states are just as eagar to use their weapons to kill as criminals are. The only way I'd kill another person is if its my last resort I wouldn't dare shoot a person whos on my lawn claiming they will harm me or my family but if he pulled or reached for a weapon I would gladly send him to an early grave. This whole situation is just terrible two dead men over $200 and some donuts. This citizen was an oppertunist he knew the law was on his side and chose to act when he would have the advantage. instead of letting them get away he exacerbated the situation leading to the death of 2 men and a pat on the back from the community. Does he get free drinks for life now? I'm not 100% behind the citizen because he created the situation by confronting them and i cant say im 100% with the family. The family of the robbers cant possibly expect to have a case against this man.
    Yeah, I agree. It was really stupid of him to go after them. He should've called the police and not try and take the law into his own hands. He could've gotten himself killed, but in the end he got two other men killed instead. Honestly, everyone was stupid in this situation.
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  5. #30
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    Can't agree with hood here.
    As the storeowner i would be gratefull that there are people around that are willing to act and help and not just call 911.
    Letting them go to prevent further escalation can't be the only option for law abiding citizen.
    Should we tell our wives they shouldn't fight back when they're assaulted because it could make things worse too?!

    Funny how criminals and their relatives keep saying things like "Yeah i made a mistake" or "I $#@!ed up a few times" - like they've robbed, raped or hurt people by accident. Like they hadn't the control over their own actions...

    It's frustrating for me and pretty cynical to the victims of their crimes.
    Ever wondered how the guy who keeps getting robbed feels? Do you think he can sleep at night?
    Does he think "Please lord let this day go by without a robbery" every single morning when he goes to work?

    Those guys were no victims and they got what they deserved.
    I hope Gs will think twice about robbing that store in the future.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hood View Post
    I don't believe anyone deserved to die and i dont believe this mans life was at risk until he decided to get involved at a time where he felt it was to his advantage. I don't think the family should press charges but I do feel is that what this citizen did was incrediably stupid there could have been a 3rd man involved in the robbery who could have chosen to take his life in revenge then we would have 3 dead bodies and 1 man in prison. The family should not press charges what could they possible expect to get a murder conviction? Are they gonna claim this man is a vigilanty? The citizen will walk free because the law allows it and he will have a new story to brag to his friends and family about and advocate how its so great to have concealded carry. I really think a vast majority of gun owners here in the states are just as eagar to use their weapons to kill as criminals are. The only way I'd kill another person is if its my last resort I wouldn't dare shoot a person whos on my lawn claiming they will harm me or my family but if he pulled or reached for a weapon I would gladly send him to an early grave. This whole situation is just terrible two dead men over $200 and some donuts. This citizen was an oppertunist he knew the law was on his side and chose to act when he would have the advantage. instead of letting them get away he exacerbated the situation leading to the death of 2 men and a pat on the back from the community. Does he get free drinks for life now? I'm not 100% behind the citizen because he created the situation by confronting them and i cant say im 100% with the family. The family of the robbers cant possibly expect to have a case against this man.
    Not a single thing here I can agree with. Even more, it's a little frustrating that you are using a stereotype and placing it right on this guys head. Then you say you will do the exact same thing this guy did.

    So, what do you tell a guy that says he'll kill you or your family, and is on your lawn? Just call the police? Yet, he pulls a weapon, so you kill him. That's exactly what this guy did. He told them he was going to call the police, and they pulled weapons on him, so he shoots them; defends his own life. Isn't that the exact same thing you just said you'd do?

    Goodness, your post just shows that you know who this is, what his thoughts were, etc.

    Please explain to me why you are saying all these things about someone you don't even know.




  7. #32
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    Cheeky bastards.
    Last edited by keefy; 11-07-2013 at 12:47.

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  9. #33
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    I own numerous guns, member of the NRA, pro 2A supporter, etc. This guy was in the wrong and can receive prison time.

    You cannot shoot someone leaving the scene of the crime while they are not in the act of currently committing the crime. He should have acted while they were robbing the joint at gunpoint and not waited until they were leaving.

    The threat ended when they started to leave. That was his downfall and where he will get hung if it goes to court.

    As a HUGE supporter of the 2A and gun rights advocate I do noy support what this guy did and beitger does 95% of the firearms community. Please dont assume that we are all rebels and want to kill just because we want to kill. Large firearms forums discuss these topics and agree when it is justified and not justified.

    Reading is one of the worst cities in PA and has a higher crime than Philadelphia, Wilkes Barre/Scranton, and Hazleton. I live about a half hour away and frequent Reading to go shopping and it is a cesspool for crime. Its scary.

    In summary, if you ae going to neutralize a threat, you do it when it is taking place. You dont do it when the criminal is leaving. The same thing goes if someone broke into your home. You neutralize the threat right then and there not when the suspect is running out the house. If you shoot them while they are fleeing, prepare to sit behind bars.

    Did these guys deserve to be blown away? YES, at the time the crime was being committed and as they were waving guns in the faces of the victims.

  10. #34
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    I like how they put down that she said he's a family man. mainly because he loves his daughter. Just because you love your kids doesn't make you a family man. These people are now grieving so fair enough. When a person is grieving, they say anything that comes to mind regardless of selfishness.

  11. #35
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    You threaten my life after I did nothing to you? You can be damn sure my primal instincts for survival kick in and I kill you. The guy who shot him was in the right. And really, you can't blame him. He was in shock, so I doubt he was aiming just to subdue the guy.


  12. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    That's where we differ. If someone dies because they were putting others in harms way, I wouldn't blink an eye.


    If someone is in my yard, and says they are going to kill me, and starts walking towards my door, and I am in the house; they are as good as dead. I put my life and my family's life in the grand scheme of it all. Our lives are more important than trying to determine whether we will be safe according to something being legal or illegal.
    that is exactly what i would do to FEAR, worry about my family first and deal with the greedy lawyers second



  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koloss View Post
    I own numerous guns, member of the NRA, pro 2A supporter, etc. This guy was in the wrong and can receive prison time.

    You cannot shoot someone leaving the scene of the crime while they are not in the act of currently committing the crime. He should have acted while they were robbing the joint at gunpoint and not waited until they were leaving.

    The threat ended when they started to leave. That was his downfall and where he will get hung if it goes to court.

    As a HUGE supporter of the 2A and gun rights advocate I do noy support what this guy did and beitger does 95% of the firearms community. Please dont assume that we are all rebels and want to kill just because we want to kill. Large firearms forums discuss these topics and agree when it is justified and not justified.

    Reading is one of the worst cities in PA and has a higher crime than Philadelphia, Wilkes Barre/Scranton, and Hazleton. I live about a half hour away and frequent Reading to go shopping and it is a cesspool for crime. Its scary.

    In summary, if you ae going to neutralize a threat, you do it when it is taking place. You dont do it when the criminal is leaving. The same thing goes if someone broke into your home. You neutralize the threat right then and there not when the suspect is running out the house. If you shoot them while they are fleeing, prepare to sit behind bars.

    Did these guys deserve to be blown away? YES, at the time the crime was being committed and as they were waving guns in the faces of the victims.
    Interesting post. Thanks for your insight.

    I don't know much about US gun laws etc, anyone have any thoughts on this?

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  14. #38
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    If you're gonna pull a gun to use as a weapon then you've forfeited your own safety. Like PBM, I think it's unfortunate anyone had to die, but I'd rather it be the instigators killed than an innocent person. I don't believe in dehumanizing human lives, so I don't think these guys 'deserved to get killed'. I just wish the situation had gone better than it did.
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  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koloss View Post
    I own numerous guns, member of the NRA, pro 2A supporter, etc. This guy was in the wrong and can receive prison time.

    You cannot shoot someone leaving the scene of the crime while they are not in the act of currently committing the crime. He should have acted while they were robbing the joint at gunpoint and not waited until they were leaving.

    The threat ended when they started to leave. That was his downfall and where he will get hung if it goes to court.

    As a HUGE supporter of the 2A and gun rights advocate I do noy support what this guy did and beitger does 95% of the firearms community. Please dont assume that we are all rebels and want to kill just because we want to kill. Large firearms forums discuss these topics and agree when it is justified and not justified.

    Reading is one of the worst cities in PA and has a higher crime than Philadelphia, Wilkes Barre/Scranton, and Hazleton. I live about a half hour away and frequent Reading to go shopping and it is a cesspool for crime. Its scary.

    In summary, if you ae going to neutralize a threat, you do it when it is taking place. You dont do it when the criminal is leaving. The same thing goes if someone broke into your home. You neutralize the threat right then and there not when the suspect is running out the house. If you shoot them while they are fleeing, prepare to sit behind bars.

    Did these guys deserve to be blown away? YES, at the time the crime was being committed and as they were waving guns in the faces of the victims.
    So when somebody has a gun pointed at you, you are going to draw/brandish your gun to shoot that individual? Let me know how well that works out for you. Chances are you will end up being shot yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koloss View Post
    I own numerous guns, member of the NRA, pro 2A supporter, etc. This guy was in the wrong and can receive prison time.

    You cannot shoot someone leaving the scene of the crime while they are not in the act of currently committing the crime. He should have acted while they were robbing the joint at gunpoint and not waited until they were leaving.

    The threat ended when they started to leave. That was his downfall and where he will get hung if it goes to court.

    As a HUGE supporter of the 2A and gun rights advocate I do noy support what this guy did and beitger does 95% of the firearms community. Please dont assume that we are all rebels and want to kill just because we want to kill. Large firearms forums discuss these topics and agree when it is justified and not justified.

    Reading is one of the worst cities in PA and has a higher crime than Philadelphia, Wilkes Barre/Scranton, and Hazleton. I live about a half hour away and frequent Reading to go shopping and it is a cesspool for crime. Its scary.

    In summary, if you ae going to neutralize a threat, you do it when it is taking place. You dont do it when the criminal is leaving. The same thing goes if someone broke into your home. You neutralize the threat right then and there not when the suspect is running out the house. If you shoot them while they are fleeing, prepare to sit behind bars.

    Did these guys deserve to be blown away? YES, at the time the crime was being committed and as they were waving guns in the faces of the victims.
    wtf is this I just read...

  17. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koloss View Post
    I own numerous guns, member of the NRA, pro 2A supporter, etc. This guy was in the wrong and can receive prison time.

    You cannot shoot someone leaving the scene of the crime while they are not in the act of currently committing the crime. He should have acted while they were robbing the joint at gunpoint and not waited until they were leaving.

    The threat ended when they started to leave. That was his downfall and where he will get hung if it goes to court.

    As a HUGE supporter of the 2A and gun rights advocate I do noy support what this guy did and beitger does 95% of the firearms community. Please dont assume that we are all rebels and want to kill just because we want to kill. Large firearms forums discuss these topics and agree when it is justified and not justified.

    Reading is one of the worst cities in PA and has a higher crime than Philadelphia, Wilkes Barre/Scranton, and Hazleton. I live about a half hour away and frequent Reading to go shopping and it is a cesspool for crime. Its scary.

    In summary, if you ae going to neutralize a threat, you do it when it is taking place. You dont do it when the criminal is leaving. The same thing goes if someone broke into your home. You neutralize the threat right then and there not when the suspect is running out the house. If you shoot them while they are fleeing, prepare to sit behind bars.

    Did these guys deserve to be blown away? YES, at the time the crime was being committed and as they were waving guns in the faces of the victims.
    When he told them he was calling the police, and they pulled the weapons on him, how is that not a crime?

    "He told these individuals to stop, and 'I'm calling the police,' and that's when these individuals drew their guns, and there was a scuffle," Adams said during a press conference Monday night. "He used deadly force before deadly force may have been used on him."
    I wonder if that's considered a threat, or friendly invitation to death?




  18. #42
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    Better to be judged by 12, than be carried by 6.

    Those thugs got what they deserved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    When he told them he was calling the police, and they pulled the weapons on him, how is that not a crime?


    I wonder if that's considered a threat, or friendly invitation to death?
    He had no business interjecting when the threat was neutralized as the criminals exited the store. All he had to do was call the police; nothing more and nothing less. As long as they were exiting the store he was outside of his right to use deadly force.

    By him stopping them he was the cause why they were going to shoot him. The threat was OVER from the initial crime.

    If he was INSIDE the store when the armed robbery took place then he would have had the right to shoot them or even if he would have went into the store while the clerk was being robbed and shot them, he would have been ok.

    Any introductory self defense course will tell you to AVOID or EVADE if at all possible.

    Don't try and be a hero believe me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MATRIX 2 View Post
    So when somebody has a gun pointed at you, you are going to draw/brandish your gun to shoot that individual? Let me know how well that works out for you. Chances are you will end up being shot yourself.

    I wouldn't be stupid enough to wait OUTSIDE of a store to confront two armed robbers in which the initial crime had nothing to do with me and after the initial crime and threat was neutralized.

    Sure, not drawing your gun will get you shot. However, sticking your nose in a situation where you could have let the police do their job AFTER the crime was over, will also get you shot and question your intelligence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koloss View Post
    I wouldn't be stupid enough to wait OUTSIDE of a store to confront two armed robbers in which the initial crime had nothing to do with me and after the initial crime and threat was neutralized.

    Sure, not drawing your gun will get you shot. However, sticking your nose in a situation where you could have let the police do their job AFTER the crime was over, will also get you shot and question your intelligence.
    "I think that this is an incident where the concerned citizen acted justifiably under the law," Adams said.

    Adams said the man is a Berks County resident who works in the neighborhood, and is also a friend of the store owner.

    "He came outside and heard the clerk and knew something was wrong," said Reading police Sgt. John M. Solecki.
    also

    Carmella Chipperfield, who lives nearby, said robberies are common at the store and she sympathizes with the store's owner.

    "That poor man," she said, referring to the owner. "He's very nice and he gets robbed a lot. He's just trying to make a living and this happens."
    Perhaps in the future any potential would be robbers would think twice before trying to steal from this store.

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    http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=23805


    I encourage everyone to read this regarding use of deadly force.

    Good day.

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    koloss i understand what you're trying to say, but what if those robbers got away with the crime, robbed another store and ended up killing someone if the cops didn't catch them? i know its a "what if" question but now that those assholes have been dealt with that won't happen. i mean to say, protect now to ensure the future....



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    Quote Originally Posted by Koloss View Post
    He had no business interjecting when the threat was neutralized as the criminals exited the store. All he had to do was call the police; nothing more and nothing less. As long as they were exiting the store he was outside of his right to use deadly force.

    By him stopping them he was the cause why they were going to shoot him. The threat was OVER from the initial crime.

    If he was INSIDE the store when the armed robbery took place then he would have had the right to shoot them or even if he would have went into the store while the clerk was being robbed and shot them, he would have been ok.

    Any introductory self defense course will tell you to AVOID or EVADE if at all possible.

    Don't try and be a hero believe me.
    Who are you to say he had no business telling them he was calling the cops? He didn't use deadly force because they were exiting the store. The way you are addressing it is saying that no one is allowed to say anything, or do anything, except cops. He has a right to tell them he's calling the police as much as you would have the right to not say anything to them at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Koloss View Post
    I wouldn't be stupid enough to wait OUTSIDE of a store to confront two armed robbers in which the initial crime had nothing to do with me and after the initial crime and threat was neutralized.

    Sure, not drawing your gun will get you shot. However, sticking your nose in a situation where you could have let the police do their job AFTER the crime was over, will also get you shot and question your intelligence.
    I'd rather have someone like this guy around, than having someone who will just mind their own business.




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    As I recall, it's election season. So they want to score political points by ruining an innocent man's life by taking a 'hard stand' on an issue.


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    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    They won't anymore...
    They sure wont. Saved the taxpayers some money too. lol I dont have any sympathy for them. If criminals knew there were more citizens like him they would think twice before robbing somebody at gunpoint. This citizen did nothing wrong. In fact I would thank him and shake his hand.

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