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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Who are you to say he had no business telling them he was calling the cops? He didn't use deadly force because they were exiting the store. The way you are addressing it is saying that no one is allowed to say anything, or do anything, except cops. He has a right to tell them he's calling the police as much as you would have the right to not say anything to them at all. I'd rather have someone like this guy around, than having someone who will just mind their own business.
    Hell yeah. Me too.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koloss View Post
    http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=23805


    I encourage everyone to read this regarding use of deadly force.

    Good day.

    I don't think you realize what you're talking about.

    I just got my CCW and had to go through a course and certification process.

    According to the posted story, everything this guy did is entirely legal and within his rights. In fact, as I recall, even if the weapons had not been brandished against him he would have been within his rights to shoot the men as they were holding up the store owner at gun point. At least, in North Carolina that would have been justified.

    It was an armed crime with the life of an innocent (if not yourself) was threatened. While you are not compelled by law to intervene, you are protected by it if you do.

    Generally speaking, you are allowed to react to force arrayed against you in equal measure. I.e., if somebody just calls you a slur you can't shoot them. If they punch you once you're probably on shakey ground to shoot them. If they threaten you with deadly force that could potentially result in loss of life (knife, gun) you are within your rights to kill them on the spot. This includes other individuals.

    So if I see a man stabbing a woman to get her purse, I can blow his brains out in the attempt to save her life.

    The wiggle room here is whether or not you "fear for your\their life". Discretion is involved there.

    A store owner having two armed men shove guns in his face and demanding his money is a situation where this is appropriate.

    Edit: also depends on castle doctrine\duty to retreat. I think the notion of having a responsibility to retreat is basically bull$#@!, but it is required in certain states.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 11-08-2013 at 05:48.


  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Not a single thing here I can agree with. Even more, it's a little frustrating that you are using a stereotype and placing it right on this guys head. Then you say you will do the exact same thing this guy did.

    So, what do you tell a guy that says he'll kill you or your family, and is on your lawn? Just call the police? Yet, he pulls a weapon, so you kill him. That's exactly what this guy did. He told them he was going to call the police, and they pulled weapons on him, so he shoots them; defends his own life. Isn't that the exact same thing you just said you'd do?

    Goodness, your post just shows that you know who this is, what his thoughts were, etc.

    Please explain to me why you are saying all these things about someone you don't even know.
    You dont have to agree with me but if someone makes a threat to me or my family and they are outside of my house I won't just up and shoot that person unless they pulled a gun. As long as im in my house I could care less about whats going on outside of it I'll call the police and let them do their job. You can't just go shooting people because they offended you or disrespected you.

    Also I don't see anything in what you qouted from me that suggests I would have done the same thing this citizen did. If you read what I said without an agenda. Just take it for what it is I'm simply saying based off the report in the OP that the citizen chose to get involved after things had calmed. He didn't attempt to do anything until the perps tried to flee it also says that there was a struggle that had lead to him shooting the two men. Which suggests that he attempted to detain one of the men and that ultimately lead to the gunfight. Idk about you but if I had a gun on me there would be no struggle you wouldnt have even been able to get close to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beast of Bourbon View Post
    Can't agree with hood here.
    As the storeowner i would be gratefull that there are people around that are willing to act and help and not just call 911.
    Letting them go to prevent further escalation can't be the only option for law abiding citizen.
    Should we tell our wives they shouldn't fight back when they're assaulted because it could make things worse too?!

    Funny how criminals and their relatives keep saying things like "Yeah i made a mistake" or "I $#@!ed up a few times" - like they've robbed, raped or hurt people by accident. Like they hadn't the control over their own actions...

    It's frustrating for me and pretty cynical to the victims of their crimes.
    Ever wondered how the guy who keeps getting robbed feels? Do you think he can sleep at night?
    Does he think "Please lord let this day go by without a robbery" every single morning when he goes to work?

    Those guys were no victims and they got what they deserved.
    I hope Gs will think twice about robbing that store in the future.
    This guy didn't prevent the crime he just killed two peopple who tried to flee the scene of a crime. Also your analogy on our wives protecting themselves is way off base. Furthermore would you prefer to have citizen save your life or save you a couple bucks by killing another person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I don't think you realize what you're talking about.

    I just got my CCW and had to go through a course and certification process.

    According to the posted story, everything this guy did is entirely legal and within his rights. In fact, as I recall, even if the weapons had not been brandished against him he would have been within his rights to shoot the men as they were holding up the store owner at gun point. At least, in North Carolina that would have been justified.

    It was an armed crime with the life of an innocent (if not yourself) was threatened. While you are not compelled by law to intervene, you are protected by it if you do.

    Generally speaking, you are allowed to react to force arrayed against you in equal measure. I.e., if somebody just calls you a slur you can't shoot them. If they punch you once you're probably on shakey ground to shoot them. If they threaten you with deadly force that could potentially result in loss of life (knife, gun) you are within your rights to kill them on the spot. This includes other individuals.

    So if I see a man stabbing a woman to get her purse, I can blow his brains out in the attempt to save her life.

    The wiggle room here is whether or not you "fear for your\their life". Discretion is involved there.

    A store owner having two armed men shove guns in his face and demanding his money is a situation where this is appropriate.

    Edit: also depends on castle doctrine\duty to retreat. I think the notion of having a responsibility to retreat is basically bull$#@!, but it is required in certain states.
    I agree with some of what you've said here but technically this section in bold didn't happen he waiting until the robbery was over.

    This is a prime example of someone within their legal rights. But this is not what happened in this case the crime had been committed and suspects were attempting to flee they were outside of the store. Leaving the scene of the crime and were confronted. If he didn't have a gun on him he probably wouldnt have done anything but he sat and watched the robbery and thought I'm gonna catch these bad guys.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwrgvqlc8DA

    @F34R in this video you see no struggle no questioning of what should I do you just see a brave patron spring into action and defend the lives of the people at the crime scene. He also makes no attempt to catch the theives hes just simply concerned about the lives of himself and other individuals. The man in the Op decided he was going to act and again I stress this after the crime was committed he prevented nothing saved no one.
    Last edited by hood; 11-08-2013 at 06:52.
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  4. #54
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    Meh, that video is completely different than what happened, reportedly, in this incident.

    You keep saying that the crime had already been committed. When he tells them he's calling the cops, another crime started. He defended himself. /end

    You did say you'd do what this guy did. They threatened him, and had weapons to follow through with that threat. Isn't that what you said you'd do if someone threatened you and had the guns?

    As far as the struggle issue in this case... well, don't assume too much. I can say that the suspects tried to take his phone, and then pointed guns at him. That is a struggle, and then they threatened him with a gun. He kills them. Done.




  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I don't think you realize what you're talking about.

    I just got my CCW and had to go through a course and certification process.

    According to the posted story, everything this guy did is entirely legal and within his rights. In fact, as I recall, even if the weapons had not been brandished against him he would have been within his rights to shoot the men as they were holding up the store owner at gun point. At least, in North Carolina that would have been justified.

    It was an armed crime with the life of an innocent (if not yourself) was threatened. While you are not compelled by law to intervene, you are protected by it if you do.

    Generally speaking, you are allowed to react to force arrayed against you in equal measure. I.e., if somebody just calls you a slur you can't shoot them. If they punch you once you're probably on shakey ground to shoot them. If they threaten you with deadly force that could potentially result in loss of life (knife, gun) you are within your rights to kill them on the spot. This includes other individuals.

    So if I see a man stabbing a woman to get her purse, I can blow his brains out in the attempt to save her life.

    The wiggle room here is whether or not you "fear for your\their life". Discretion is involved there.

    A store owner having two armed men shove guns in his face and demanding his money is a situation where this is appropriate.

    Edit: also depends on castle doctrine\duty to retreat. I think the notion of having a responsibility to retreat is basically bull$#@!, but it is required in certain states.
    That bolded part makes no sense to me. How can the store owner be held at gun point if they are not brandishing weapons?
    Last edited by keefy; 11-09-2013 at 03:26.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    That bolded part makes no sense to me. How can the store owner be held at gun point if they are not brandishing weapons?
    I believe he's talking about the suspects not brandishing the weapons against the outside citizen that ended up killing those losers.




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  8. #57
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  9. #58
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    To fire a gun you should have weapons training. Even if he was going to kill a man, a death in the family is going to have ripple effect on society. Who knows what this robber would have become in the future he could have become a charitable man and you judge him without him even killing somebody
    Sent from my computer using keyboard.

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I believe he's talking about the suspects not brandishing the weapons against the outside citizen that ended up killing those losers.
    This.


  11. #60
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    I carry and if someone pointed a gun at me I'd shoot them too. That's kind of the whole point of me carrying. For protecting myself and my family.

    I love how the families say "he was a good boy"... Who was shot n killed after drawing a gun on someone after just robbing a store at gunpoint. If that's a good boy I'm the damned Pope.
    Last edited by faaeng; 11-11-2013 at 07:07.
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