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  1. #1
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    The Kinect is the anchor that sinks the Xbox Oneís resolution

    The Kinect is the anchor that sinks the Xbox Oneís resolution
    By James Plafke on November 5, 2013 at 3:48 pm96 Comments
    Xbox One, the anchor

    As the new consoles quickly approach, individual big-budget games are receiving their customary multiplatform comparisons. A continuing trend among the few next-gen multiplatform game comparisons you may have noticed is that the Xbox One outputs natively in 720p, while the PS4 outputs in either 1080p or 900p. The reason for this may surprise you.

    While itís nice to know which game will perform and look better on next-gen consoles, consistent trends among the different comparisons reveal more than just which console runs each game best. They also reveal underlying traits of the consoles themselves. Recently, an internet ruckus was caused when the folks over at Digital Foundry did their usual in-depth comparison of Battlefield 4 for the PS4 and Xbox One. They found that the Xbox One version natively output at 720p and upscaled to 1080p, while the PS4 version natively output at the higher resolution of 900p and upscaled to 1080p. The result of this was that the Xbox One version was more aliased; Digital Foundry also found that, overall, the PS4 version of the game performed a little better. Then, word broke that the upcoming Call of Duty: Ghosts would also natively output at 720p on the Xbox One, while the PS4 would natively output at 1080p. Mark Rubin, Infinity Ward developer, noted that in order to get the game running at 60fps on the Xbox One, it would have to output at the lower 720p.

    This, of course, paints the Xbox One as an underpowered console, and while that may be the case (if only slightly), that doesnít mean itís so underpowered that it canít handle a native output of 1080p running at 60 fps. In response to the internet ruckus, Digital Foundry dove back into the Xbox One and found that, actually, the console is powerful enough to reach that output and frames-per-second, but the Kinect is actually sapping the power the console needs in order to reach that desired output.



    Around 10% of the Xbox Oneís GPU time is dedicated to functions on the operating system level, particularly Kinect tracking. This percentage of GPU resources is inaccessible to developers. So, itís not that the Xbox One is significantly underpowered, itís that developers cannot use the whole of the consoleís resources because theyíre reserved for functions other than games.

    In modern times, we donít really have dedicated devices anymore. We use our phones for just about everything ó reading, gaming, music, TV and movies, and even (surprisingly!) making phone calls sometimes. Our PS3 and Xbox 360 are our primary Netflix machines, and even our PS Vita and Nintendo 3DS have non-gaming, media-focused apps. So, Microsoft isnít exactly in the wrong for wanting to shore up its next-gen consoleís non-gaming capabilities.

    Call of Duty Screenshot

    However, in the long run, when the Kinect is inevitably underused for gaming and UI and is primarily relegated to being a voice-activated power button, that reserved 10% will come back and bite Microsoft in the butt. This will especially be the case when we get further into the PS4′s lifecycle, and the games begin to look much better than they did at launch. Microsoft could eventually relent on their Kinect initiative and maneuver those 10% of resources back into the hands of game developers.

    As we saw with the PS3 and Xbox 360 generation, though, even when a console is underpowered and a pain to develop for, developers eventually find their stride and the console catches up ó as the PS3 did with the Xbox 360, both in terms of quality titles and overall sales. Until then, these comparisons where the PS4 performs better than the Xbox One should become the norm.
    http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/17...nes-resolution

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    Interesting read if true... which is most likely is.




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    I doubt that. I think it's more on the developers. If we didn't have any 1080p games I could see it being a possibility. Even the new kinect sports game is in 1080p and that's a kinect only game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I doubt that. I think it's more on the developers. If we didn't have any 1080p games I could see it being a possibility. Even the new kinect sports game is in 1080p and that's a kinect only game.
    Nice rebuttal. That's most likely true too lol. Thinking about it both ways I guess. If a first party can make it 1080p, 60fps, is it a third party dev problem that they didn't? Plausible.




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    Kinect sports game is a legit example? I don't think so.
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    I can't imagine Kinect Sports being too demanding lol. Can't be hard to get that running at 1080p!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I doubt that. I think it's more on the developers. If we didn't have any 1080p games I could see it being a possibility. Even the new kinect sports game is in 1080p and that's a kinect only game.
    That's an interesting point. How many players or AIs are on the screen at a time? What's its framerate?

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    Forza also 1080p @ 60fps... I dunno. Both points have merit. I guess we'll see how it goes from beyond launch. I'm going to just say it was a rushed launch, and devs haven't had the time they needed to do more with it. If the second plus waves of games are hitting "next gen targets", then my idea is also plausible.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Shingo View Post
    Kinect sports game is a legit example? I don't think so.
    i do. How can kinect be a anchor when this game is tracking multiple players limbs and still outputting natively at 1080 p? NFS, NBA 2k, NBA live, FIFA, UFC, Disney Fantasia , crimson dragon are all 1080p as well.

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    But even the PS3 launched with a 1080p/60fps title. I think some of ya'll are missing the point.

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    Didn't we hear about this possibly being the case earlier


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    kincet will also sink sales for sure with its 100 price add on, people dont want kincet ms should drop it nintenod and sony did

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    It could be possible. I will say though first party have full on support from their parent company. So no doubt they will get the most up to date info on how to get the most out of the console. We saw that throughout this entire generation. Most 3rd party were 720p at 30 fps on both systems. So far the majority of the games now are not that same case. No telling what is going on but it will definitely get better over time after resource management will be improved.




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    Quote Originally Posted by coolguy View Post
    kincet will also sink sales for sure with its 100 price add on, people dont want kincet ms should drop it nintenod and sony did
    i could see see them dropping it if it wasn't such a big part if the experience. Sony and nin device doesn't offer the nowhere near the same level of experience.

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    There can't be any denial that the Kinect2 is integral to the XBone total TV experience. That has to have reserved space, since in America, it is being marketed as an interface to the cable box so you don't have to get up off the couch, a potentially large market in more than one way. That and the Windows8 kernel is running mostly for this function. This combined is going to require at least allocated RAM space, even though it is being dynamically switched, or snapped. It might be up to the developer to decide the Kinect2 and TV functions aren't being used at all and take that for the game, but then snap would probably be broken for those snapping back and forth between TV and game functions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    There can't be any denial that the Kinect2 is integral to the XBone total TV experience. That has to have reserved space, since in America, it is being marketed as an interface to the cable box so you don't have to get up off the couch, a potentially large market in more than one way. That and the Windows8 kernel is running mostly for this function. This combined is going to require at least allocated RAM space, even though it is being dynamically switched, or snapped. It might be up to the developer to decide the Kinect2 and TV functions aren't being used at all and take that for the game, but then snap would probably be broken for those snapping back and forth between TV and game functions.
    Don't forget it has 8gb of Flash RAM too. That helps with all the switching of the apps.

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    How f****** lazy are you that you can't pick up a remote and click a damn button?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos144 View Post
    How f****** lazy are you that you can't pick up a remote and click a damn button?

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    or just use your voice. It's nice to have that option though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    or just use your voice. It's nice to have that option though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Praetor Illuminatus View Post
    that article is 1) stupid. 2) not news 3) assumes that it is the sole reason for underperforming.
    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Interesting read if true... which is most likely is.
    it's not the only reason but some of these resources will naturally be given back to the developers as time passes because the OS will get more efficient.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I doubt that. I think it's more on the developers. If we didn't have any 1080p games I could see it being a possibility. Even the new kinect sports game is in 1080p and that's a kinect only game.
    it's not if the console "can" have 1080p and 60 because even the PS2 could do that. What matter is how the game looks while doing those two things and how does it look compared to the competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Nice rebuttal. That's most likely true too lol. Thinking about it both ways I guess. If a first party can make it 1080p, 60fps, is it a third party dev problem that they didn't? Plausible.
    that's because it's easier for first party to do this than third party that needs to put out titles on multiple consoles. although it is still interesting to note that some of the semi-exclusive and exclusive titles on the One are not 1080p. 1080p and 60fps are a rarity on the One with big titles. Turn 10 just said that without the cloud, they wouldn't even have 1080p with 60fps...and that game has features missing that should not happen on a next-gen game. possibly rushed but also working a console that is going through multiple issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Forza also 1080p @ 60fps... I dunno. Both points have merit. I guess we'll see how it goes from beyond launch. I'm going to just say it was a rushed launch, and devs haven't had the time they needed to do more with it. If the second plus waves of games are hitting "next gen targets", then my idea is also plausible.
    ^ i responded above.

    One will definitely hit next-gen targets, no doubt about that. what i think it may not do (seeing how it is performing right now) is have consistency. i would expect the exclusives to hit target soon after launch to within a year. multiplats will follow too but they will lag behind in consistency.

    at this point honestly, it can go either way. maybe the One will not be much different in the next 2 years or maybe it will be much different. why? because if these problems ARE mostly due to software, then they should be able to fix them. though i still don't think it will be on par, there are just too many things that the X1 is doing that should reserve its resources and it's less power to begin with.

    my honest opinion is that with ambitious titles, we're going to see more of a gap than we are seeing right now. but we will likely see X1 improve more than the PS4 in relative terms, if not equally even if there's a power difference. meaning, we're going to see less differences in games that should not be pushing the consoles to their limits and then there will be a couple of games where PS4 will pull ahead noticeably. PS4 was built with games in mind and it's straightforward. it will also be improving very well with time for this reason, on top of being more powerful on paper.

    so we'll see, it'll be interesting to see what happens. i wouldn't be surprised either way if the difference gets less in some games but more in others. i would be surprised if X1 somehow catches up with the PS4 in titles that push these consoles to their limits...which we won't see for at least 2+ years. i don't know how that would be possible...only thing i can think of is the wild card that is the powa of da cloud....i'd laugh my ass off is that were it though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    i do. How can kinect be a anchor when this game is tracking multiple players limbs and still outputting natively at 1080 p? NFS, NBA 2k, NBA live, FIFA, UFC, Disney Fantasia , crimson dragon are all 1080p as well.
    none of those games are resource hogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    There can't be any denial that the Kinect2 is integral to the XBone total TV experience. That has to have reserved space, since in America, it is being marketed as an interface to the cable box so you don't have to get up off the couch, a potentially large market in more than one way. That and the Windows8 kernel is running mostly for this function. This combined is going to require at least allocated RAM space, even though it is being dynamically switched, or snapped. It might be up to the developer to decide the Kinect2 and TV functions aren't being used at all and take that for the game, but then snap would probably be broken for those snapping back and forth between TV and game functions.
    i don't think MS would allow them to do this. i was just thinking the same about PS4 as well...maybe in the future, they can have games where the OS features are disabled and say, about 7GB of RAM is available to the developer this way. i'm sure it's possible but i don't think it will happen.

    these are social gaming machines now, they aren't only for gaming.

    what will happen though is that the OS is going to "likely" reduce very well in size (i wouldn't be surprised if significantly).
    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos144 View Post
    Why that's why I have kids? And they don't work three quarters of the time

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    Last edited by Omar; 11-11-2013 at 06:05. Reason: forza 5 isn't 720p, it's 1080p.

  23. #21
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    That is PR that Turn 10 said "without the cloud blah blah blah..." That's all that is. That game was rushed and there's no doubt even without the cloud, they would be able to hit 1080p @60fps. I think having to release game probably much earlier than intended is the only real issue with why the game is missing content and features, and I doubt the cloud made any more of a difference than they could have done with more time developing and without the cloud.




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    But if the developer said it, it must be true?

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    But if the developer said it, it must be true?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    it's not if the console "can" have 1080p and 60 because even the PS2 could do that. What matter is how the game looks while doing those two things and how does it look compared to the competition.
    not to me.

    none of those games are resource hogs.
    Not that you know of. Speculation. Still 1080p.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post

    i don't think MS would allow them to do this. i was just thinking the same about PS4 as well...maybe in the future, they can have games where the OS features are disabled and say, about 7GB of RAM is available to the developer this way. i'm sure it's possible but i don't think it will happen.
    An idea to do with freeing up resources. What if there was a group of games, like greatest hits or platinum, where it is made perfectly clear that if you play this game you have NONE of the special OS features, and because of that it frees up most of the system resources? Going down to a basic OS how the 360 and ps3 currently have in game. Pure gaming class and games have to be specially certified for this ability? This could apply to both systems and be the pinnacle of the systems abilities :P....Sorry just a bit of a geek moment, but like you said could be interesting what the 1st party could do with something like that

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