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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I haven't read most of this but Crimson Dragon looks better than COD that I think goes without saying.

    As for Kinect, I doubt it is holding back any game from doing 1080p.
    Could the reserved 10% for the other o/s?

    Kinect does a little bit of compute which is part of that 10% but that is not all of that 10%.


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    Quote Originally Posted by dondidit View Post
    You can't be serious....
    About what?

  3. #78
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    @Sub, bro, please don't change .

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    About what?
    Well for 1) It is a 10% GPU reserve. 2) lol, out of all people, you should know that it's not about hitting 1080p in a game without a certain context.

    the context is, if it costs more than the PS4 and MS claims that it's not much different than the PS4 then it needs to show us a game that looks on par (same game) while keeping all the details, frame rate AND resolution.

    as of right now, it hasn't done this with multiplat games and most of exclusives on X1 aren't 1080p + they do not look better than the competition.

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  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    @Sub, bro, please don't change .
    "Life is change. G rowth is optional. Choose wisely." Don't worry sufi, everyone fails at something. The important thing is you tried.

    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    I haven't been following the conversation above but one thing I would like to say and it is regarding Kinect.

    Kinect will be the reason Xbox One will succeed (it definitely won't fail because of it, if it does fail -- when I say fail, I don't mean it won't be successful, I mean it won't generate excitement.)

    Xbox One might be the 'IT' product because Microsoft chose to include it with the system. I still think it should have been integrated but ah well.
    That sounds cool but i would rather have it separate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    @Sub, bro, please don't change .


    Well for 1) It is a 10% GPU reserve.
    For the second o/s NOT Kinect only.

    2) lol, out of all people, you should know that it's not about hitting 1080p in a game without a certain context.

    the context is, if it costs more than the PS4 and MS claims that it's not much different than the PS4 then it needs to show us a game that looks on par (same game) while keeping all the details, frame rate AND resolution.

    as of right now, it hasn't done this with multiplat games and most of exclusives on X1 aren't 1080p + they do not look better than the competition.
    I don't know why they aren't hitting 1080p, they should be with no issues. We aren't talking about a game that is graphically impressive in COD. That is why I say BS.

  7. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    For the second o/s NOT Kinect only.
    if that's true, it's beside the point. 10% GPU is being reserved. that should be affecting the resources available, that are already less than PS4's.

    I don't know why they aren't hitting 1080p, they should be with no issues. We aren't talking about a game that is graphically impressive in COD. That is why I say BS.
    why isn't DR3 hitting it? TitanFall, Ryse, Killer Instinct? Maybe it's because X1 is less powerful than the PS4 as it is on paper and real world performance as devs have claimed?

    i'm surprised people aren't getting it...are we that much in love with MS now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    if that's true, it's beside the point. 10% GPU is being reserved. that should be affecting the resources available, that are already less than PS4's.
    No argument there.
    We always knew 10% was being reserved by the second O/S.

    why isn't DR3 hitting it? TitanFall, Ryse, Killer Instinct? Maybe it's because X1 is less powerful than the PS4 as it is on paper and real world performance as devs have claimed?

    i'm surprised people aren't getting it...are we that much in love with MS now?
    This is the first batch of games coming out that were developed at the same time as the console. This is not as straight forward a system as the PC setup of the PS4. Is it more complicated? Yes.
    Is it less powerful? yes. Is it 720 vs 1080p less powerful? Hell no.
    Thats 54% less power not 10%,
    Last edited by mynd; 11-15-2013 at 07:16.

  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    No argument there.
    We always knew 10% was being reserved by the second O/S.



    This is the first batch of games coming out that were developed at the same time as the console. This is not as straight forward a system as the PC setup of the PS4. Is it more complicated? Yes.
    Is it less powerful? yes. Is it 720 vs 1080p less powerful? Hell no.
    Thats 54% less power not 10%,
    so you think the GPU reserve is the only limit? lol -sigh- indeed.

    i'm not arguing that it's always going to have 2x the resolution in multiplat games but there's definitely going to be a difference. it's up to the developer to decide which way they want to go. resolution hit usually seems like the best way to go however.

    i would not be entirely surprised if this trend "somewhat" continues in multiplats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    so you think the GPU reserve is the only limit? lol -sigh- indeed.

    i'm not arguing that it's always going to have 2x the resolution in multiplat games but there's definitely going to be a difference. it's up to the developer to decide which way they want to go. resolution hit usually seems like the best way to go however.

    i would not be entirely surprised if this trend "somewhat" continues in multiplats.
    Well aside from the obvious teraflop and rop count, yes it the only limit. Bandwidth it not an issue.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Well aside from the obvious teraflop and rop count, yes it the only limit. Bandwidth it not an issue.
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    oh you don't have to tell me, i know. i'm just trying to remind you. and you say that like it's not a big deal lol. that's probably a bigger deal than the 10% GPU reserve.

    the ROP are twice on the PS4, aren't they? the teraflops are about 50% more on the PS4 aren't they?

    and we're still not done yet...there's the slower RAM & less max throughput and likely less available for games. EDIT: more compute units.

    and yet you count it to be a 10% difference in resources available? why?
    Last edited by Omar; 11-15-2013 at 09:07.

  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    No argument there.
    We always knew 10% was being reserved by the second O/S.



    This is the first batch of games coming out that were developed at the same time as the console. This is not as straight forward a system as the PC setup of the PS4. Is it more complicated? Yes.
    Is it less powerful? yes. Is it 720 vs 1080p less powerful? Hell no.
    Thats 54% less power not 10%
    ,
    Yep, i bet most of them are rushed too. Speaking of 1080p vs 720p, i saw a video where one of the devs said they had the game running in 1080p and he explained why. I will come back and edit my post with it when i find it.



    Edit: Added video link
    O.k. Found the video where devs says they had Ryse running in 1080p.

    http://www.xbox360achievements.org/n...n-Debacle.html
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 11-15-2013 at 22:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    oh you don't have to tell me, i know. i'm just trying to remind you. and you say that like it's not a big deal lol. that's probably a bigger deal than the 10% GPU reserve.
    Bingo!
    So what has Kinect got to do with anything then?
    the ROP are twice on the PS4, aren't they? the teraflops are about 50% more on the PS4 aren't they?
    No, not 50%, closer to 40%. And likely well less than it real measured terms.
    and we're still not done yet...there's the slower RAM & less max throughput and likely less available for games. EDIT: more compute units.
    Ram is way faster on the XBO if used optimally, not sure what you talking about throughput, the XBO has the edge there its a faster clock speed.
    and yet you count it to be a 10% difference in resources available? why?
    Yeah sorry, I meant 30-40%, getting a bit confused it was late.

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    You guys are STILL going on about this

    It's obvious there is either more going on here than any of our 'experts' seem to be able or willing to allude to and any of us can guess. That and/or team MS are just really stumbling here and are THAT far of from having things properly optimized despite what ever advantages or compensation the hardware has. either that or Kinects 10% is more impactful than is SHOULD be, though more likely it is just the OS is worthless in it's current state because I'm sorry but COD cant even run at 1080 with it's ancient brute of an engine.

    There ARE issues that need to be fixed/They Fu*ked up badly.

    /thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by D3seeker View Post
    You guys are STILL going on about this

    It's obvious there is either more going on here than any of our 'experts' seem to be able or willing to allude to and any of us can guess. That and/or team MS are just really stumbling here and are THAT far of from having things properly optimized despite what ever advantages or compensation the hardware has. either that or Kinects 10% is more impactful than is SHOULD be, though more likely it is just the OS is worthless in it's current state because I'm sorry but COD cant even run at 1080 with it's ancient brute of an engine.

    There ARE issues that need to be fixed/They Fu*ked up badly.

    /thread
    Something is going on for sure, I think it is simplistic to blame kinect however.
    Proof will be the second round of games late next year, which will be when I am just about ready to buy something.


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    The XBone has a last generation GPU, not nextgen like the PS4, it has slower memory that is also part of a fragmented architecture, the CPU and GPU are clocked slower, it is managing 3 operating systems, one of which is just for TV functions, and it is the PS4, not the XBone, that has off-die companion processors, one just for video and one just for audio. Is there really any surprise that 720p with cutback effects and frame rates are already straining the XBone capabilities?
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    The Kinect is the anchor that sinks the Xbox Ones resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    The XBone has a last generation GPU, not nextgen like the PS4,
    They are based on the same architecture. Unless you prove otherwise nothing we have ever heard suggests this.

    it has slower memory that is also part of a fragmented architecture,
    and it also has faster memory.
    the CPU and GPU are clocked slower,
    when did this happen?
    it is managing 3 operating systems, one of which is just for TV functions,
    Not true well the tv bit that is.
    and it is the PS4, not the XBone, that has off-die companion processors,
    also false, turns out the arm processor cant even do background downloads
    one just for video and one just for audio.
    They both have dedicated decompression components on die or off it doesn't matter. And there is nothing in any tear down to suggest video or audio is off chip.
    Is there really any surprise that 720p with cutback effects and frame rates are already straining the XBone capabilities?
    Where on earth are you getting your info from? The sony equivalent of Misterxmedia?




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    Last edited by mynd; 11-16-2013 at 01:16.

  18. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Yep, i bet most of them are rushed too. Speaking of 1080p vs 720p, i saw a video where one of the devs said they had the game running in 1080p and he explained why. I will come back and edit my post with it when i find it.
    yea i just saw that article but i can't find it anymore because of the plethora of new COD news.

    here's something more interesting and new though, going to bold the interesting parts:

    There's no "particular cause", Rubin began. "Early on, we didn't know where exactly the resolution of anything would fall because we didn't have hardware or the software to support it.
    "We tried to focus in on 1080p, and if we felt like we were on borderline of performance somewhere... We tried to make the best decision for each platform that gives you the best-looking game we could get and maintains that 60 frames a second. "There's no specific, oh, well, the VO chat on Xbox took up so much resources that we couldn't do 1080p native. There's no definitive one to one per se cause and effect. It's just an overall thing. We took each system individually and said, 'okay, let's make the best game for each system.'
    "I think both look great," he continued. "Some people might notice if they had them right next to each other. Some people might not. The Xbox One is 1080p output, it's just upscaled hardware wise."
    "It was a late decision, too. That call wasn't made until a month ago."
    According to Rubin, native 1080p is "very possible", but it'll take the developer more time to sort out certain questions of hardware resource allocation. "I mean I've seen it working at 1080p native," he said. "It's just we couldn't get the frame rate in the neighbourhood we wanted it to be."
    "And it wasn't a lack of effort. It wasn't that it was like last minute. We had the theoretical hardware for a long time. That's the thing you get pretty quickly and that doesn't change dramatically.

    [this pretty much says right here not to expect much of a change "relatively" to the PS4 - sufi]

    "It was more about resource allocation," he continued. "The resource allocation is different on the consoles. That huge web of tangled resources, whether it's threads-based or if it's GPU threads or if it's memory - whatever it is - optimisation is something that could go theoretically on forever."
    Infinity Ward's next Call of Duty will be leaps and bounds ahead, Rubin suggested. "I definitely see slash hope both platforms will look way better the next time we get a chance at it. As an obvious analogy - and if people are not sure about this it's pretty simple - look at Call of Duty 2 versus COD 4. It was a massive leap forward in graphics, and that's just because it takes time to get through this. "First launch, first time at bat at a new console is a challenging one. That's just the way it is. For people fearful one system is more powerful than the other or vice versa, it's a long game." [whatever you say IW lol, you just spilled your guts and then you lie to us ]
    Per our round-up of Xbox One need-to-know facts, Microsoft hasn't insisted on a minimum resolution for Xbox One titles. "Game developers are naturally [incentivised] to make the highest quality visuals possible," Xbox engineer Andrew Goesson observed over the summer, "and so will choose the most appropriate trade-off between quality of each pixel versus number of pixels for their games."
    before i start, guess what the red bolded part means lol. everything we've been saying thus far.

    i like how cleverly he puts it and yet i can point out the parts that are pure PR.

    1) if you notice, he doesn't give any problems about tools or even the hardware

    ...which is imo a bad thing because if it weren't the OS changes, hardware changes or tool issues then X1 is not going to relatively improve more than the PS4 "a whole lot" that i was expecting it to. it might not be noticeable and it might even get negated by the fact that PS4 is just built for games and will likely have less issues moving forward and will iron out issues much quicker if there are any.

    2) he said that it can be in 1080p but does not clarify that statement

    duh, of course it can be in 1080p, like he said earlier, they had it in 1080p, the point is, "Was it able to retain the same quality of graphical details AND frame rate while doing it?" NOPE.

    that's exactly what i've been saying (you know, someone who isn't a developer but has COMMON SENSE).

    so they realized that it didn't work that well at 1080p so they lowered the resolution, boom. done.

    here's another thing i'm about to say that people will think that is BS without any sense.

    the resolution issue isn't going to go away, why? X1 is not going to relatively do better than the PS4 in a way that it will catch up. let's say even if they achieve the same resolution (if people whine enough), they would still have to compensate somewhere, either less details, less objects, or lack of features.

    OR they can just target a game that the lower powered console can achieve easily while retaining 60fps and 1080p. but that'd be a stupid move because then you're selling a game that doesn't look as good as others to begin with.

    so what's going to happen is that while X1 will get better and will iron out issues, (which apparently there aren't many to begin with it seems), come next year, it would need to play a game that's much better-looking than COD: Ghosts so we're back to zero, where we started (relatively). People need to understand relativity and look at things from better perspectives.

    in other words, if IW were to make COD: Ghosts again (hypothetically speaking) next year, they might even achieve what PS4 did this year...though next year's games are going to need a lot more resources and seeing how X1 is more difficult to utilize, we're likely going to have the same issue as we did this year. people need to understand how well thought-out the PS4 design is, i see no reason why it wouldn't continue to get better, at a faster rate.
    Edit: Added video link
    O.k. Found the video where devs says they had Ryse running in 1080p.

    http://www.xbox360achievements.org/n...n-Debacle.html
    you still don't get it, surprise! lol. you could have GT6 running at 1080p too at one point too on the ps3 lol. the point is, will it retain the frame rate and details?
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Bingo!
    So what has Kinect got to do with anything then?
    10% GPU reserve is part of the problem! ok sure, the OS must take some of it too but the point is that part of the GPU is being reserved.

    i see what you're saying here, no i'm not attacking the Kinect. I actually like the thing, i just don't like what they're "likely" going to use it for. no, i don't care if it's the kinect or not, it just happens so that kinect also reserves part of that 10% but the point is that 10% is a HUGE DEAL and i would be $#@!ing pissed if even this was alone a problem on the PS4, much less the rest of the stuff that are.

    No, not 50%, closer to 40%. And likely well less than it real measured terms.

    Ram is way faster on the XBO if used optimally, not sure what you talking about throughput, the XBO has the edge there its a faster clock speed.


    Yeah sorry, I meant 30-40%, getting a bit confused it was late.
    and why wouldn't it be used optimally? it's a straightforward setup, it's X1 that needs to utilize their theoretical max or it will lag much more.

    by max throughput, i mean, literally max amount of bandwidth it can achieve. the XBO has what as the faster clock speed? the RAM?
    Last edited by Omar; 11-16-2013 at 02:49.

  19. #93
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    PS4
    Killzone SF.....1080p, 30-60 fps
    Resogun.........1080p, 60 fps
    COD Ghosts..1080p, 60 fps
    Knack............1080p, ? fps
    Battlefield 4....900p, 60fps
    DC Universe....1080p, 60 fps
    Warframe F2P..1080p, ? fps
    Infamous.......1080p, ? fps, possible demo
    DriveClub.......1080p, 30 fps, dev working on 60
    Deep Down F2P..1080p, ? fps, beta at launch

    XBone
    Forza 5..........1080p, 60 fps
    Ryse..............900p, 30 fps
    Killer Instinct..720p, 60 fps
    DR 3..............720p, 30 fps
    COD Ghosts....720p, 60 fps
    Titanfall..........720p, 60 fps
    Battlefield 4.....720p, 60fps

    Kind of funny that MS is talking about the "theoretical" possibility of the XBone having 1080p titles but the devs need to learn how to optimize more.

    Don't see Sony using babbling rhetoric like that, just coming out with game after game that has NATIVE 1080p. Now, why could that be? As myndy says, they are exactly the same, or at least that is what he believes. From what has come out so far, it looks like the XBone has a high end of 720p if they want 60fps.

    What Sufi was trying to say above is that driving games and sports games don't have the same compute load that FPS, TPS, and RPG games have. Sports and driving games don't have any characters, facial expressions are very minimal, there is no dialogue, animations are in a narrow range, multiple other reasons. That is why sports and driving games are less of a compute load, allowing for more 1080p titles on both platforms. However, even with Forza, people are noticing it has baked textures, no dynamic weather, cut back lighting effects, and so on. Saying the devs will get better as time goes on also applies to PS4 devs.
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