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  1. #1
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    Turn 10 about Forza: We would have struggled to be 720p, 60fp without Cloud

    http://www.oxm.co.uk/65749/forza-5-i...g-development/

    Forza Motorsport 5 owes its 1080p visuals and 60 frames a second performance to Microsoft's furnishing Turn 10 with easy access to scalable servers, creative director Dan Greenawalt has told OXM. The ability to tap into Xbox Live Compute has allowed the studio to lavish more time and development resources on the game's visuals and complex physics systems; without this advantage, it would have had trouble achieving Forza 5's final resolution.

    To be clear, this isn't the same as saying that the game won't run as advertised without an internet connection, only that Microsoft has shouldered the burden of providing and tuning the servers, which has allowed Turn 10 to focus on maintaining 1080p.

    "A lot of it comes down to how easy it is to tap into things like the cloud," Greenawalt told our contributor Richard Wordsworth, when he asked why the game was "only possible on Xbox One", as billed during a recent trailer (below). "But first off, it's a bespoke engine, so the engine will only run on Xbox One. So that's the freebie answer.

    "The reason we say that, though, is because we could have done cloud-powered opponents last generation, but we would have had to have done all the infrastructure," he continued. "Now with Xbox One we get servers, we get Azure, we get Thunderhead, and it's so easy to plug into."
    Microsoft's Azure server network "allows you to bring a lot of computational power and server bandwidth to bear," Greenawalt explained. "It scales automatically and you don't have to write for it, so it's an instant server. It's basically a technology that allows you to do cloud computing very cheaply and very easily. It just automatically scales for the amount of people.

    "That is really easy to hook up to with the [software development kit] for the Xbox One platform, that allows us to focus our resources in coming up with fun and innovative features, rather than making backend infrastructure. That frees up a lot of people.

    "So, would [cloud AI] have been possible last generation? Sure. And last generation we could have done 1080p, 60fps. But we wouldn't have been able to do that and the physics we did in Forza 4. So Forza 4 was 720p and 60fps, with the physics we had. Now we're doing things in the physics that requires so much more computational power, we would have struggled to be 720p, 60fps."

    Asked to clarify that Turn 10's ready access to the cloud has allowed it to spend more time improving Forza 5's resolution and physics, Greenawalt responded: "Right. And that's what's allowed us to, in three years, have a game that has innovation like Drivatar, looks beautiful as well as having the new things we're doing in physics, like the tyres and suspension."

    [Update - Here's the exact wording of the interviewer's request for clarification from our transcript: "So, if you hadn't had all this server technology provided by Microsoft, then you would have had to spend more time on that, so you wouldn't have been able to have it in 1080p."]

    Turn 10's creative director has previously suggested that next generation innovation is partly about what you can't see - the AI, the physics, and the streamlining of the development practises necessary to create a game like Forza 5. The new racer is apparently the "hardest thing Turn 10 has ever done".

    You can read more about the game's server-run opposition care of our Forza 5 Drivatar feature. As for Xbox Live Compute in general, this constitutes free access to dedicated multiplayer servers for all developers, among other things.
    The question is: how is the game offline?
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  2. #2
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    Yes, so, shut off the internet pipe and what happens?
    Does the game stutter or downgrade on slow pipes?
    This sounds of lunacy on their part to even say this... explain if this game runs offline the way it runs online!
    Sounds like more microsoft GIVE to me.
    Sadly it's like "Our game only runs as expected by everyone if we have additional resources on the cloud... " what is that?

  3. #3
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    Basically They don't have to do all the network admin so can concentrate on the good stuff.
    If they had to do both the good stuff wouldn't be as good.

  4. #4
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    Comprehension 101. Cloud compute was used to DEVELOP the game, NOT to run the finished product. It will be the same on/offline.

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  5. #5
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    Well, they sure make it sound as if Forza won't run at 1080p, 60 fps without an Internet connection. Comprehension skills or not..

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooper71 View Post
    Comprehension 101. Cloud compute was used to DEVELOP the game, NOT to run the finished product. It will be the same on/offline.

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    Raises further questions like why are they not able to tap into the machines full power without help from an MS server?

    Clearly the "cloud" is nothing but a roadblock to the hardware.

    Why would MS intentionally sabotage their own hardware?
    Gotta be some $ in it for them somewhere down the line, selling Azure to those that don't know any better maybe?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooper71 View Post
    Comprehension 101. Cloud compute was used to DEVELOP the game, NOT to run the finished product. It will be the same on/offline.

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    Wait....what are you saying again? That doesn't make any sense.
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  9. #8
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    So I'm still confused on what happens with these cloud games once no internet connection is present. Is the game any different? All I've hard from MS is just how awesome the cloud is but they don't say anything about what happens if you are connected. I want this answered. If someone has some info please share, I'm very curious.




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  10. #9
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    The title reads


    Forza 5 is 1080p because Turn 10 could rely on Xbox One's cloud during development
    Time saved creating online features has been spent on visuals and physics


    The OP negated to include it.
    Last edited by keefy; 11-11-2013 at 03:28.

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    I mean, this says it all:

    Forza Motorsport 5 owes its 1080p visuals and 60 frames a second performance to Microsoft's furnishing Turn 10 with easy access to scalable servers, creative director Dan Greenawalt has told OXM. The ability to tap into Xbox Live Compute has allowed the studio to lavish more time and development resources on the game's visuals and complex physics systems; without this advantage, it would have had trouble achieving Forza 5's final resolution.

    To be clear, this isn't the same as saying that the game won't run as advertised without an internet connection, only that Microsoft has shouldered the burden of providing and tuning the servers, which has allowed Turn 10 to focus on maintaining 1080p.
    Keefy broke it down in the short version. Easy to understand.




  13. #11
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    So in other words without the cloud it is impossible for 1080p to occur is what I got from it.
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  14. #12
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    So I'm still slow here. 1080p with 60fps on and off line.

    I need a Yes or No

    lol


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  15. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by $Greatness$ View Post
    So I'm still slow here. 1080p with 60fps on and off line.

    I need a Yes or No

    lol
    Same.

    I don't understand how they need the cloud when developing it, but don't need to use it's tech when the final product is done?
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  16. #14
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    They didnt NEED the cloud it just made things faster and easier.
    Last edited by keefy; 11-11-2013 at 04:50.

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  18. #15
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    No, it wouldn't be impossible. There would just have been sacrifices made to achieve the res and framers per sec.




  19. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by $greatness$ View Post
    so i'm still slow here. 1080p with 60fps on and off line.

    I need a yes or no

    lol
    yes!!!


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    Then what is the point in the cloud for the customer? Ms keep on going on about it then constantly stress that the experience is the same off line as it is when connected. Is it just a development tool or what does it do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Same.

    I don't understand how they need the cloud when developing it, but don't need to use it's tech when the final product is done?
    They just meant that they were able to spend more time working on the visuals, because they didn't have to worry about writing and tuning a bunch of netcode and setting up a big server farm.

  22. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj1979 View Post
    Then what is the point in the cloud for the customer? Ms keep on going on about it then constantly stress that the experience is the same off line as it is when connected. Is it just a development tool or what does it do?
    Biggest plus is dedicated servers thus giving all players a much lower latency since the servers use gigabit connections and are located on or near the main internet backbones in huge datacentres.

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