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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    We're already seeing how things are starting off this gen. Yields are much better than previous gens. But you ignore that and told us in your previous post not to start counting too soon. The march fiscals aren't going to tell us which is the "go to console" if we're using your "too soon to know" logic. Unless one is just being blown out the water.
    Indeed, but then you are assuming there will be a "go to console".
    I'm not.
    If we're in the "wait and see/don't judge too soon" state of mind then 2015 is the year to see what the masses are deeming the "go to console". That's just my overall take on it.
    What the prize for being the go to console?
    What was it this gen, who got the prize?
    And trying to judge this gen based solely off last gen is sooooo wrong. This gen is very different. This gen is a mix of the last 3 for Sony and the last 2 for nintendo and MS. It's just so twisted. Sony has applied everything that made the previous 3 playstations a success and applied it the PS4. They've cut back all the fat(mistakes). Not so with the other 2 companies. Nintendo has totally missed their Wii casual market. WiiU sales are tracking like the gamecube and 3rd party is weak like the Wii's 3rd party support. MS clearly lost their vision. The xbone has the exclusive support like the earlier 360 years and applied Sony's early ps3 mistakes to it($#@!y pr/tools slacking/higher price).

    ^This is the short version of why I view current gen the way that I do. Do I think nintendo is screwed? Yes. Their market has left to tablets/handhelds. Do I think the xbone is screwed like the og xbox? No. They have better support and marketing than og xbox. Do I think it's going to sell less than the 360? Yes. They've either lost their advantages or had the playing field leveled. Kinect wasn't the reason the 360 held the sales lead over the ps3. I have no reason to think kinect 2 and operating systems will change the xbone's popularity. Do I think the ps4 will be a success like the ps2? No. Their market is being ate into by MS and they don't hold the year start advantage the ps2 held. Do I think it's going to sell better than the ps3? Yes. It's more popular than the ps3 ever was and hold advantages that the ps3 never had.
    And no one is saying you shouldn't have a theory/thoughts/opinion on what will happen.

    As for last gen, suggesting there is nothing to learn is folly.
    We know:

    -The market is extremely price sensitive.

    -Early adopters are not a general indication of the gen's selling power.
    (Hell if it were the PS3 was dead in the USa day 1).

    -Anything can happen with SKU's in the future.
    Last edited by mynd; 11-23-2013 at 22:38.

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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Indeed, but then you are assuming there will be a "go to console".
    I'm not.
    Me either. I dread a far-and-away sales leader. Market diversity favors content developers and consumers. Market dominance favors the one guy who makes the thing that dominates the market.

    I'm apparently not supposed to mention Wii in relation to this console generation. But, Wii. They ran off with the hardware market so far over the horizon soon all we got for that console was dreck. I mean when a rushed-up, tacked-together simulation of festival midway games published by a no-name imprint of a rock-bottom budget subsidiary of 2K Games is a surprise delight, you know you're in trouble.

  4. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Indeed, but then you are assuming there will be a "go to console".
    I'm not.

    What the prize for being the go to console?
    What was it this gen, who got the prize?
    The 360 was the go to console. The console that 3rd party sells the most on. There's always one

    Who said anything about a prize?. That's just silly to throw in there.


    And no one is saying you shouldn't have a theory/thoughts/opinion on what will happen.
    I was stating how I came up with my opinion. Showing that it wasn't just a baseless opinion. I'm using the market of how things went in previous gens compared to the reception these new consoles are currently receiving.
    As for last gen, suggesting there is nothing to learn is folly.
    We know:

    -The market is extremely price sensitive.

    -Early adopters are not a general indication of the gen's selling power.
    (Hell if it were the PS3 was dead in the USa day 1).

    -Anything can happen with SKU's in the future.
    I didn't say it was nothing to learn from last gen. I said you can't just use only last gen because it's a twisted version of the previous 3 gens.

    -We knew price mattered before last gen. This gen it favors Sony.

    -Not true. Early adopters can be a general indication of the gens selling power. PS3 is down 13+ million in the States. The 360 is the go to console based on the advantages they held. The 360 certainly didn't have a 13+million lead when the ps3 launched.

    -Anything such as what? You mean a kinectless xbone? I have high doubts about that. That's the one thing they didn't 180 on.


  5. #79
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    [QUOTE=sanfordmay;6252796]
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post

    Relevance of Wii console market position last gen in highlighting hazards of early on predicting console market performance this gen, to Sony's strategy for launching, or rather not launching, PS4 in their home market, to anecdotal non-gaming public awareness of original Xbox One DRM policies, to a prime example of how reported information on any event often drastically changes when enough time has passed to filter background static and PR noise, identify inherent bias, and also properly research the event -- waiting for enough valid data to be known; "Dewey Defeats Truman," if you know what I mean.




    Yeah, that's the considerate and civil way to terminate this debate as ultimately fruitless for both parties. Another way is to flatly state you don't know what you're talking about and I do. Inconsiderate, but accurate. I did this stuff for more than a decade. Engineered public impression of whatever my employer and/or clients got up to that they wanted perceived by certain parties in a positive way. (Some of them were true believers, too, in that they thought what they were doing was right and good. It usually wasn't, but they believed with all their hearts in the decency and honor of their endeavors. They're the most difficult sorts of clients because at some point you're going to have to present information in a form tantamount to lying and they don't want you to lie to people but they don't understand that you have to lie because what they believe is wrong.)

    I know exactly what these people do because I was one of them and I did the same damn thing day in and day out for a damn long time. I'd take your word on the overall methodology applied in developing software systems for .NET because I don't know the first thing about .NET save for what it is, and that only vaguely. So I don't know why you're still on me over this when I suggested we chalk it down to discrete opinions.

    By the way, that's a common hallmark of a true believer. Carrying a debate past the point the other party offers to accept the elements in contention as merely differences of opinion.

    I don't use "agree to disagree" as a succinct euphemism for "I'm right and you're wrong but you're not worth my time so I'll let you go ahead and believe your petty delusions." I mean it literally. We don't agree and I'm fine with that. Yet you throw what amounts to an olive branch back in my face. Another trait of a true believer. That's not quite QED but it's close enough for me.

    For the record, you may as well get used to this notion: The Xbox One DRM restrictions? Sony had planned on doing the same thing. They took it out but they left its fingerprints all over the PS4.
    This is how you make the suggestion to "agree to disagree":

    <begin post>
    Let's agree to disagree then.
    </end post>

    You don't throw out two paragraphs of counter-points and condescending jabs.....and then "blah blah agree to disagree". But whatever......agreeing to disagree.
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  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    The 360 was the go to console. The console that 3rd party sells the most on. There's always one

    Who said anything about a prize?. That's just silly to throw in there.
    If the Xbox 360 was th ego to console, it should have completely outsold the PS3.
    There was some crossover with dual console owners but not huge.
    I was stating how I came up with my opinion. Showing that it wasn't just a baseless opinion. I'm using the market of how things went in previous gens compared to the reception these new consoles are currently receiving.
    I didn't say it was nothing to learn from last gen. I said you can't just use only last gen because it's a twisted version of the previous 3 gens.

    -We knew price mattered before last gen. This gen it favors Sony.

    -Not true. Early adopters can be a general indication of the gens selling power. PS3 is down 13+ million in the States. The 360 is the go to console based on the advantages they held. The 360 certainly didn't have a 13+million lead when the ps3 launched.

    -Anything such as what? You mean a kinectless xbone? I have high doubts about that. That's the one thing they didn't 180 on.
    Price can be part of the SKU, there are other things they can do besides the removal of Kinect. In fact there are things they can even do within Kinect (for example leaving the audio and IR blaster and removing the camera).

  7. #81
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    [QUOTE=Christopher;6252856]
    Quote Originally Posted by sanfordmay View Post

    This is how you make the suggestion to "agree to disagree":

    <begin post>
    Let's agree to disagree then.
    </end post>

    You don't throw out two paragraphs of counter-points and condescending jabs.....and then "blah blah agree to disagree". But whatever......agreeing to disagree.
    Worth noting, save for that last post, I didn't intend anything I wrote to condescend or take a personal swipe at you. Not even true believer. I'm certainly a true believer about some things. I think we all are. But if anything I wrote in the spirit of avid debate was poorly phrased and read as offensive, I apologize, sincerely.

    I wonder why these gaming and tech things get so contentious. I mean, is it the topics of gaming and tech, or the influence of the Internet? Politics I understand, but why do we get so heated about games? I figure it's the Internet. If we worked across the hall from one another and you were a staunch Libertarian and I a member of the Socialist Workers Party, sworn enemies by creed, without the Internet safely wedged between us, we'd surely just ignore each other.
    Last edited by sanfordmay; 11-23-2013 at 23:43.

  8. #82
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    [QUOTE=sanfordmay;6252859]
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post

    Worth noting, save for that last post, I didn't intend anything I wrote to condescend or take a personal swipe at you. Not even true believer. I'm certainly a true believer about some things. I think we all are. But if anything I wrote in the spirit of avid debate was poorly phrased and read as offensive, I apologize, sincerely.
    Ok.....that's cool. Seems I misinterpreted your post. Apologies for my part as well.
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  9. #83
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    [QUOTE=sanfordmay;6252859]
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    I wonder why these gaming and tech things get so contentious. I mean, is it the topics of gaming and tech, or the influence of the Internet? Politics I understand, but why do we get so heated about games? I figure it's the Internet. If we worked across the hall from one another and you were a staunch Libertarian and I a member of the Socialist Workers Party, sworn enemies by creed, without the Internet safely wedged between us, we'd surely just ignore each other.
    You make me read a lot and that pisses me off.

    (kidding)
    Last edited by Christopher; 11-24-2013 at 00:01.
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  10. #84
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    [QUOTE=Christopher;6252872]
    Quote Originally Posted by sanfordmay View Post

    You make me read a lot and that pisses me off.
    I should put that in my sig.

    I can't debate that point, either. Occupational hazard. What I used to do involved a lot of long-form writing, always on some ridiculous deadline. These days I do very little freelance work under my own name, but here and there I pick up ghostwriting projects, book length. People who hire ghostwriters, they all want War and Peace. Always on some ridiculous deadline. I get my hands on a keyboard and I go berserk at supersonic speeds. I have a manual portable typewriter from the 1950s I bought some years ago to slow myself down. It didn't work. All I did was jam the typebars and shred ribbons.

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