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  1. #1
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    Forza 5's monetisation is a monumental rip-off

    Saw this tweet from Garnett Lee....

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    Reading up on Forza 5 and pretty much appalled at what I see. I have not had enough exposure to it but saw those signs in what I played



    http://www.teamvvv.com/en/news/comme...mental-rip-off

    In the world of free-to-play racing games, if you want to get to the good stuff then you have two options: be prepared to endure some serious grinding, slowly rising up the ranks whilst being drip-fed in-game currency, or part with your cash to bypass it altogether. It’s a practice that’s been adopted by Microsoft and implemented into Forza Motorsport 5 - in-game tokens can be purchased with real world money to gain access to some of the game’s more prestigious motors.

    Except there’s one crucial difference: Forza 5 isn’t free-to-play. Far from it, when you consider the steep cost of the Xbox One, plus a Thrustmaster TX 458 wheel for more serious racers in addition to the 54.99 RRP of the game. And therein lies a serious problem.

    As outlined by the outraged NeoGaf community, some of Forza 5’s most sought after cars are inexcusably extortionate.

    Case in point: the Lotus E21 formula one car, one of Forza 5’s new star attractions keenly publicised by Microsoft as this is the first game in the series to feature open wheel racecars. What they failed to mention was the astronomical price of admission. In-game, it costs a whopping 6 million credits. Alternatively, at the time of writing you can buy it for 10,000 tokens – in real world cash, this equates to over 60.00. 60.00 for one digital racecar? No. Just no.

    The average player, then, won’t ever be able to experience the pleasure of driving this car unless they’re prepared to grind through 60 hours-worth of laborious racing. And that’s before you take into account sifting through menus, tuning the car and practicing to stay competitive. In practice, you could be spending over 100 hours just to drive one car. Yes, there still needs to be a sense of progression and car rarity, but this is unfeasible.

    Of course, Microsoft will argue that micro-transactions are entirely optional. But in the case of Forza 5, it’s abundantly obvious that the fundamental game design has been detrimentally altered to endorse in-game purchases.

    Unlike in Forza 4, free cars are no longer regularly rwarded for winning races and levelling up – in Forza 5 you have to purchase each and every one of them using in-game credits or tokens. This restricted access is only compounded by the fact that players who don’t have time to grind in the career and simply want to test drive their favourite cars at their leisure can’t experience them in free drive mode. In Forza 4, every car was available to drive in free mode – the catch was that you couldn’t customise or upgrade them outside of the career, which was a fair compromise for casual players. In contrast, free drive in Forza 5 has been stripped-down to just 40 cars.

    There are other changes that were clearly engineered as a ploy encouraging you to pour more money into Microsoft’s pot, too. The much-loved manufacturer affinity, where sticking with the same manufacturer reaped regular rewards in Forza 4, has been scrapped altogether, so you can say goodbye to free upgrades. Auction houses to sell and share cars are also gone, and you can’t gift cars either.

    Meanwhile, the game is constantly reminding you that you can double your XP and credits by buying tokens, or recommending you cars that can only be bought as DLC. Again, this is the sort of tactic you expect to see in a free-to-play mobile racing game - not in a full price retail console game. Worse still, you can’t even buy a car on its own in the majority of cases – Microsoft obviously want you to buy the entire DLC package. It's pure unbridled greed.

    This all has bleak implications for the next generation, as monetisation mechanics start to seep into more racing games. Gran Turismo, for example, has always required excessive grinding before you can afford the more desirable cars - the announcement that optional micro-transactions will be in-place for Gran Turismo 6 could exasperate this debacle. Let’s just hope its arcade mode will give access to the full car roster this time which would alleviate the problem somewhat, as rumours suggest.


    At least DriveClub Plus Edition will actually be free-to-play in the proper sense, with the option to buy the full game and access all the content. It’s an exemplary business model that allows everyone to have a free test drive but doesn’t punish players who have already purchased the game – a concept that Microsoft don’t appear to have grasped.
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  2. #2
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    I dunno.. I'll have to continue through the game to see how the earning is done. Just on the basis though, it gives you the options to either play the game and earn the "money" to buy the higher end cars, or pay real money and get that car w/o having to actually earn it.

    I think it mentions it... progression and rarity. Makes sense to me. If they add the ability for money happy people to buy it.. I don't see a problem with that.




  3. #3
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    No more auction house or gifting cars? That really sucks. Those were things that made Forza special.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I dunno.. I'll have to continue through the game to see how the earning is done. Just on the basis though, it gives you the options to either play the game and earn the "money" to buy the higher end cars, or pay real money and get that car w/o having to actually earn it.

    I think it mentions it... progression and rarity. Makes sense to me. If they add the ability for money happy people to buy it.. I don't see a problem with that.
    Yeah, I'm not a sim racer fan so I can't really comment on this article. What you say makes sense though. If you can achieve all the cars without spending an extra penny then I don't really see a problem unless they purposely made it much more difficult to accomplish this than in previous versions of the game. But again.....for games like these, I am an outsider looking in. But I worry about this type of thing making its way to other non-F2P games.
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  5. #5
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    That's bulls hit and I hope companies stop this. When u buy a game it's content should be yours.

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    Huh, more anti-consumer nonsense. Color me surprised.


  7. #7
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    Yeah, I was discussing this with a buddy of mine a few weeks ago when I started to see the prices for them, HILLARIOUS....
    We will just play the better looking game: Gran Turismo 6 And wait for Drive Club

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    The pay to play model is getting pretty damn old even after you buy the game

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  9. #9
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    I'll work on some grinding either later tonight or tomorrow morning and kinda figure out how long it'll take to earn that many credits.




  10. #10
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    I've played about 30 mins and have over 100K credits so far.




  11. #11
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    Well, $#@! they make you work to unlock cars?

    Dam. I want it all and I want it now!

    Really games are two fricken easy these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Well, $#@! they make you work to unlock cars?

    Dam. I want it all and I want it now!

    Really games are two fricken easy these days.
    Think its more the fact that they use to give you a free one now and then. Now you have to buy every single one with either in game or real cash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Think its more the fact that they use to give you a free one now and then. Now you have to buy every single one with either in game or real cash.
    Like the original Gt then?


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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Like the original Gt then?


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    *sigh* yeah lets go back to the first GT game to use as an example. Or you know whats actually better to compare it with would be the most recent GT or even Forza 4, which is what they happen to do in the article.

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    Forza 5's monetisation is a monumental rip-off

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    *sigh* yeah lets go back to the first GT game to use as an example. Or you know whats actually better to compare it with would be the most recent GT or even Forza 4, which is what they happen to do in the article.
    Im just saying im not a huge fan of giving you access to every car, i liked the grind.
    I also almost never use the cars they give as prizes.

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    Last edited by mynd; 11-26-2013 at 02:17.

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    I think 'buying' cars/content that is available to unlock (Forza 5's case seems to be kinda extreme cost wise) is more or less cheating yourself out of an important part of the game.. I hated what BF3 (and I'm sure BF4 soon) did with the shortcut kits.

    Getting everything is part of the experience. I like the concept of certain items that are stupid hard to get, but when you do its bragging rights. Racing games in general are like this, since the cars are the focal point of the game and people instantly clue in to the fact that you have "that" car.


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  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    I think 'buying' cars/content that is available to unlock...is more or less cheating yourself out of an important part of the game.
    This is why the Free-To-Play model is annoying.


    You have two options:

    1) Grind it out and take longer than usual to unlock the items. Basically, this process is made less enjoyable on purpose, so you will...

    2) ....pay real money and unlock them faster/instantly, which takes out the fun.


    Neither option is perfectly fun. But for a normal $60 game? You buy the game and the leveling experience is tuned precisely the right amount.

    I can understand using the Free-To-Play model instead of a subscription model, since people don't really like that either. But if you're releasing a game that can use the normal $60 model, it should just do that IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I dunno.. I'll have to continue through the game to see how the earning is done. Just on the basis though, it gives you the options to either play the game and earn the "money" to buy the higher end cars, or pay real money and get that car w/o having to actually earn it.

    I think it mentions it... progression and rarity. Makes sense to me. If they add the ability for money happy people to buy it.. I don't see a problem with that.
    When developers usually start doing things like this it means you have to "grind" a lot to earn the items that you can use real money to purchase.

    Plants vs. Zombies 2 is a fine example (still a fun game though.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    When developers usually start doing things like this it means you have to "grind" a lot to earn the items that you can use real money to purchase.

    Plants vs. Zombies 2 is a fine example (still a fun game though.)
    Oh I understand the concept of it just fine. I just think that the article is going a little over the top. I've been browsing around the forza community and there are a lot of different opinions on it over there. There are some people that haven't played that long and have over a million credits in the bank, a half dozen cars purchased, upgrades done, etc. With around 10 hours of racing.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    This is why the Free-To-Play model is annoying.


    You have two options:

    1) Grind it out and take longer than usual to unlock the items. Basically, this process is made less enjoyable on purpose, so you will...

    2) ....pay real money and unlock them faster/instantly, which takes out the fun.


    Neither option is perfectly fun. But for a normal $60 game? You buy the game and the leveling experience is tuned precisely the right amount.

    I can understand using the Free-To-Play model instead of a subscription model, since people don't really like that either. But if you're releasing a game that can use the normal $60 model, it should just do that IMO.
    Right, but the trade off is the game is FREE. I'll take the extended unlock periods if it means I don't shell out $60 USD (+ tax if not online) for it.

    The trouble, as you just pointed out, is that in many cases the publishers are making you pay full for the game and then throwing tons of micro-transactions and dubious DLC at you. It's repulsive.

    In particular when said DLC is already on the bloody disc.


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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Oh I understand the concept of it just fine. I just think that the article is going a little over the top. I've been browsing around the forza community and there are a lot of different opinions on it over there. There are some people that haven't played that long and have over a million credits in the bank, a half dozen cars purchased, upgrades done, etc. With around 10 hours of racing.
    Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that you don't understand the concept. I don't think I was trying to explain that -- even if you don't have to grind yet to earn the items you can get for free, eventually to encourage more people to invest money they might start doing it.

    Otherwise, it's kinda pointless to have payment system when people can easily unlock the items (I don't mean it has to be super easy -- if you have to do the same type of race over and over to unlock something that would be ridiculous, for example.)

  23. #22
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    Sounds like MS being MS.
    Not surprised in the least, and expect to see this in a lot more games.

  24. #23
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    When did $60 become a "micro transaction" I think is the more important question.

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  26. #24
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    Wont be to long before you pay extra to unlock achievements, I mean thats effectively what you do. Before we had achievements, what you had unlocked through gameplay was your reward.


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    I don't mind this, if you can unlock all the cars without paying a cent. However, about the cars thought. This can be seen "pay to win", getting better cars right away if you spend money. Which isn't fair at all.
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