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  1. #26
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mael Duin View Post
    I don't mind this, if you can unlock all the cars without paying a cent. However, about the cars thought. This can be seen "pay to win", getting better cars right away if you spend money. Which isn't fair at all.
    I agree completely with that.

    Right now I'm only lvl4, and have been doing half ok mostly. Will start another thread.




  3. #28
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    I don't think you can simply rely on a single rule that says "If you can get a car eventually then it's all fair game". Where do you draw the lines? If it takes an average gamer some 100 hours grinding to get a car and make it competitive that you otherwise have to spend an additional $60 to unlock then is that really acceptable?

    Where does the rule break down? When it takes 200 hours? 300 hours? A week? Or when the real money shortcut cost is $65, $100, $1000?

    At what point does it become 'unacceptable'?

    For me this is a poor, profiteering model that only we, the gamers, can do anything about. Simply do not buy the games. Forza is my most favourite console game franchise, but I will take the difficult decision to not buy Forza 5.

    ​aka Sparc

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    Great video by Boogie2988 (guy behind Francis character) on this topic.


  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    I don't think you can simply rely on a single rule that says "If you can get a car eventually then it's all fair game". Where do you draw the lines? If it takes an average gamer some 100 hours grinding to get a car and make it competitive that you otherwise have to spend an additional $60 to unlock then is that really acceptable?

    Where does the rule break down? When it takes 200 hours? 300 hours? A week? Or when the real money shortcut cost is $65, $100, $1000?

    At what point does it become 'unacceptable'?

    For me this is a poor, profiteering model that only we, the gamers, can do anything about. Simply do not buy the games. Forza is my most favourite console game franchise, but I will take the difficult decision to not buy Forza 5.
    I am an average gamer. I'll let you know when it's unacceptable in Forza. I'm making decent amounts right now, just from playing the game in a normal way.

    "Boogie" has the same opinion on it that I do.




  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mael Duin View Post
    I don't mind this, if you can unlock all the cars without paying a cent. However, about the cars thought. This can be seen "pay to win", getting better cars right away if you spend money. Which isn't fair at all.
    TIs not fair you played the game longer than me. I should have the same stuff you have. Buying the cars allows that to happen.




    Last edited by keefy; 11-26-2013 at 17:21.

  8. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    I don't think you can simply rely on a single rule that says "If you can get a car eventually then it's all fair game". Where do you draw the lines? If it takes an average gamer some 100 hours grinding to get a car and make it competitive that you otherwise have to spend an additional $60 to unlock then is that really acceptable?

    Where does the rule break down? When it takes 200 hours? 300 hours? A week? Or when the real money shortcut cost is $65, $100, $1000?

    At what point does it become 'unacceptable'?

    For me this is a poor, profiteering model that only we, the gamers, can do anything about. Simply do not buy the games. Forza is my most favourite console game franchise, but I will take the difficult decision to not buy Forza 5.
    Well it pretty much works like this, if you cant enjoy the game without paying extra then its a crap game and should be marked down as such.


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  9. #33
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    I know on this site we have a certain "type" of "xbox Gamer".

    But here are what actual FORZA fans on the official forums are saying.



    Turn 10 can you please stop trying to fleece people for ever last penny and just release a game people can enjoy?

    So far:

    • You've lied about the LCE tokens, 1,250 (which by the way still haven't been credited to my account) is nowhere near enough to buy any car in the game, it's not even enough to buy some of the smaller cars I'd like.
    • The incessant pre and post race prompts to spend tokens (aka $$) on boosting XP.
    • Every option to buy things includes tokens (aka $$).
    • My car list is already littered with DLC (aka $$).




    Make your mind up, if you're going to ship a game where everything costs $$ then do it properly, give us a free to play game and reasonably priced content, if not then give us a nice standalone game that doesn't hint at spending more money every 10 seconds to compensate for a lack of content!
    http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/fo...howThread.aspx

    If my calculations are right, to buy all the cars, it will take 100 million credits which translates into just under 500 hours of grind on 14 circuits. 20 hours grind is too much.

    To buy the tokens for the cars... its about 400+

    Tokens pricelist

    - 100 for 0.79
    - 575 is 3.99
    - 1250 for 7.99,
    - 2700 for 15.99
    - 8000 for 39.99
    - 20,000 is 64.99

    Gamereactor article on this matter

    http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/99944...50+in+Forza+5/



    Oh man it gets worse. They have calculated how much it would cost to buy all the cars with tokens.

    http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/fo...d/6280854.aspx

    How much would it cost to buy every car in tokens? Answered!
    I could guesstimate after looking through the cars I feel like the average price of all 260 (dlc included) cars is somewhere around 600ish tokens per car or ($11 USD).

    260 cars x 600 tokens = 156,000 tokens

    To buy 156,000 tokens you would need to buy the $99 bundle with 8,000 tokens 19.5 time ( rounded 20)

    20 token bundles would cost $1930.50

    Something else I thought of, Just to throw this in for the heck of it, $60 for the game, $50 season pass, 2 unique $10 dlc tracks (tracks not confirmed) = $130.00 + 1930.50 = a total of $2,060.50

    Just checked craigslist there's an black on black e36 bmw 328i on craigslist in good condition for $2,000. Nova SS for $1,800. 280z running project car for $900. Mk 3 Supra Turbo needs a head gasket for $1,500.

    Just to compare some things you guys can relate to.
    Last edited by victorijapoosp; 11-26-2013 at 20:33.
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  10. #34
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    This is the kind of crap that makes me wish I hadn't wasted my money on Forza 5, as good as the game looks.

  11. #35
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    Four Hundred pounds? Four hundred! Four hundred!

    Players are able to buy token packs in at the following prices:

    - 100 for 0.79
    - 575 is 3.99
    - 1250 for 7.99,
    - 2700 for 15.99
    - 8000 for 39.99
    - 20,000 is 64.99
    This is shocking.
    I like racing games, driving around my fave tracks in my fave car trying to better my lap times, I do do that for hours n end, or at least have in the past with countless other games.
    Last edited by keefy; 11-26-2013 at 20:32.

  12. #36
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    Wow real highway robbery

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  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Four Hundred pounds? Four hundred! Four hundred!



    This is shocking.
    I like racing games, driving around my fave tracks in my fave car trying to better my lap times, I do do that for hours n end, or at least have in the past with countless other games.
    Its kind of hard to understand though, I need context, how much does an average car cost?

    As far as grind goes, I'm for maybe 30-50 hours grind (for all unlocks), but anything larger than that to get all cars...no thanks.

    Mind you, I still have yet to play Forza 3 sitting in my collection. SO my interest in racing sim games must be about as low as it will ever get (forza horizon was a different story).
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  14. #38
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    Yeah... I'm going with the "play to win" on this one. It wouldn't even be that awful if this was some f2p game but nope, full price.
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  15. #39
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    Cars will cost $102,536,000.00 even. That is all cars, including DLC.
    Tokens is 170,693

    I just went through every single car and put each price/token in two separate calculators.




  16. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Cars will cost $102,536,000.00 even. That is all cars, including DLC.
    Tokens is 170,693

    I just went through every single car and put each price/token in two separate calculators.
    So 64 pounds is going to get you 20,000 tokens, so you going to need 9 of these to unlock all cars...aye aye aye.

    How long will take roughly to grind that? Didint you say you got 100k in 30 mins?
    Is that "money" ?
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  17. #41
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    After I eat I'll see how much I have right now. I think it's 38 mins in and 100+K, but I'll check to be sure.




  18. #42
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    I have 213,476 CR
    I have driven for 1hr 16:42
    Total Winnings 65,861 CR

    I own 2 cars:
    Nissan Silvia Spec-R 2000
    Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track 2013




  19. #43
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    Forza 5's monetisation is a monumental rip-off

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I have 213,476 CR
    I have driven for 1hr 16:42
    Total Winnings 65,861 CR

    I own 2 cars:
    Nissan Silvia Spec-R 2000
    Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track 2013
    So is that money or tokens you have? Cause you said earlier its only 170,000 tokens to unlock all cars. Which means it took you an hour?

    Must be money?

    In which case you need about 512 hours to unlock everything?

    Uhhh $#@! that!


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  20. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    So is that money or tokens you have? Cause you said earlier its only 170,000 tokens to unlock all cars. Which means it took you an hour?

    Must be money?

    In which case you need about 512 hours to unlock everything?

    Uhhh $#@! that!


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    Yeah, CR is "credits" or money. TK is "Tokens".

    I dunno if I'd go by what I've done and just multiply it out. You can earn more and more with different things going on. Change the "drivatar" skill lvl you're up against and that increases your income. Lower the assists, increases income. Beat rivals, increases income.

    Right now I have 297,825 credits, and I've only had 85,210 CR from winnings. So I've earned 212,615 from leveling up and my drivatar participating in races when I'm not using the game.




  21. #45
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    I personally don't have a problem with this. It gives you the option to buy or earn it in the game. It's perfect free market economics.

    And the whole "it's on the disc already, why should I have pay to unlock it?". I've give you a movie example......

    Let's say I decided to make two movies at once. That is...... film them both simultaneously. The movie "Back to the Future" parts 2 and 3 comes to mind. Let's say instead of releasing them in theaters, they had released them directly to Blu-Ray.

    Since it basically took twice the time to make, it's therefore twice the money spent to have it made. To save money on packaging and distribution, they decide to release both movies on ONE DISC. You pay $20 to be able to own (that is...watch indefinitely) which one of the movies you want. The other movie remains on the disc unplayable until you pay them another $10 to unlock it.

    When you buy games and there is extra DLC on disc, they decided that $60 would cover the budget of everything on that disc EXCEPT that DLC. That DLC cost them extra money beyond a game's original budget to make, but costs them next to nothing to include on the disc to be unlocked for convenience's sake.

    Just because it's on the disc, doesn't mean you should get to play that DLC only for the price you paid for the game. If it's budgeted separately as DLC when it was produced, it should be charged separately for it's use.

    Also..... when it comes to racing in the real world, every team has different budgets on what kind of car they can afford to race or not. It only reflects real world realities.

  22. #46
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    Why the hell should i care about the budget of a multimillion dollar firm?

    Does Capcom really spend a few extramillions to "program" a second outfit for every SF character?
    GTAV was the most expensive game ever and i was never asked to pay another few bucks for any $#@!.

    Unlocking cars in a racinggame is normal and nobody has a problem with that, although one could argue that making a very "rare" car available for purchase via microtransactions kinda takes away from the achievement of unlocking it fair and square.
    When people see you online with that car you want them to think "Damn man you really busted your ass for that sweet ride" instead of "Sucker probably used daddies mastercard".

    The way is see it most companies finish a game and then say "Ok let's lock some awesome stuff and charge extra for that!".
    Stuff that simply USED TO BE FREE for years and years of gaming (like all the cars, all the tracks, all the mp maps, a second costume for every fighter etc. etc.).
    You can't really compare that to movies man.

  23. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast of Bourbon View Post
    Why the hell should i care about the budget of a multimillion dollar firm?

    Does Capcom really spend a few extramillions to "program" a second outfit for every SF character?
    GTAV was the most expensive game ever and i was never asked to pay another few bucks for any $#@!.

    Unlocking cars in a racinggame is normal and nobody has a problem with that, although one could argue that making a very "rare" car available for purchase via microtransactions kinda takes away from the achievement of unlocking it fair and square.
    When people see you online with that car you want them to think "Damn man you really busted your ass for that sweet ride" instead of "Sucker probably used daddies mastercard".

    The way is see it most companies finish a game and then say "Ok let's lock some awesome stuff and charge extra for that!".
    Stuff that simply USED TO BE FREE for years and years of gaming (like all the cars, all the tracks, all the mp maps, a second costume for every fighter etc. etc.).
    You can't really compare that to movies man.
    No different then movies. Look at the Lord of the Rings. They had the original version and later came out with the extended version for sale.

    Also....it was free in the past because the consoles back then were not set up to monetize extra content. You were forced to buy expansions in standalone form for the longest time. Some gave you free maps to download, but most did so out of the kindness of their hearts to thank the fans.

    Also... if they finish a game and decide to lock some of the awesome stuff and charge extra for that...like you said? So be it. It's no different than if I work for a company doing programming and I happen to have a plumbing skill from my past. If my boss asked me to go fix the leaking toilet cuz he saw my plumbing past , I'd tell them "sure.....but you gotta pay me extra". He then looks at me and says.... "but I'm paying you now". To which I say "yes..... but for programming, not plumbing. If you want use of that particular extra skill of mine, you are gonna have to pay extra".

    We all decide what things in life we are willing to do for free and what we will charge for. If I fix my mother's car for free and decided to charge to fix anybody else's car..... that's my prerogative.

  24. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    No different then movies. Look at the Lord of the Rings. They had the original version and later came out with the extended version for sale.

    Also....it was free in the past because the consoles back then were not set up to monetize extra content. You were forced to buy expansions in standalone form for the longest time. Some gave you free maps to download, but most did so out of the kindness of their hearts to thank the fans.

    Also... if they finish a game and decide to lock some of the awesome stuff and charge extra for that...like you said? So be it. It's no different than if I work for a company doing programming and I happen to have a plumbing skill from my past. If my boss asked me to go fix the leaking toilet cuz he saw my plumbing past , I'd tell them "sure.....but you gotta pay me extra". He then looks at me and says.... "but I'm paying you now". To which I say "yes..... but for programming, not plumbing. If you want use of that particular extra skill of mine, you are gonna have to pay extra".

    We all decide what things in life we are willing to do for free and what we will charge for. If I fix my mother's car for free and decided to charge to fix anybody else's car..... that's my prerogative.
    When did a movie charge you more while you were watching?

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  25. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast of Bourbon View Post
    Why the hell should i care about the budget of a multimillion dollar firm?

    Does Capcom really spend a few extramillions to "program" a second outfit for every SF character?
    GTAV was the most expensive game ever and i was never asked to pay another few bucks for any $#@!.

    Unlocking cars in a racinggame is normal and nobody has a problem with that, although one could argue that making a very "rare" car available for purchase via microtransactions kinda takes away from the achievement of unlocking it fair and square.
    When people see you online with that car you want them to think "Damn man you really busted your ass for that sweet ride" instead of "Sucker probably used daddies mastercard".

    The way is see it most companies finish a game and then say "Ok let's lock some awesome stuff and charge extra for that!".
    Stuff that simply USED TO BE FREE for years and years of gaming (like all the cars, all the tracks, all the mp maps, a second costume for every fighter etc. etc.).
    You can't really compare that to movies man.
    Has there ever been a movie on a disc with "unlock able content" that you had to pay extra for? Silly analogy.

    DLC on the disc.....plumbing.....good grief
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  26. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    No different then movies. Look at the Lord of the Rings. They had the original version and later came out with the extended version for sale.

    Also....it was free in the past because the consoles back then were not set up to monetize extra content. You were forced to buy expansions in standalone form for the longest time. Some gave you free maps to download, but most did so out of the kindness of their hearts to thank the fans.

    Also... if they finish a game and decide to lock some of the awesome stuff and charge extra for that...like you said? So be it. It's no different than if I work for a company doing programming and I happen to have a plumbing skill from my past. If my boss asked me to go fix the leaking toilet cuz he saw my plumbing past , I'd tell them "sure.....but you gotta pay me extra". He then looks at me and says.... "but I'm paying you now". To which I say "yes..... but for programming, not plumbing. If you want use of that particular extra skill of mine, you are gonna have to pay extra".

    We all decide what things in life we are willing to do for free and what we will charge for. If I fix my mother's car for free and decided to charge to fix anybody else's car..... that's my prerogative.
    I agree with some of that...
    -sure you can ask for extra cash for doing stuff that has nothing to do with your job
    -sure you can fix your mothers car for free and charge others
    ... i just don't get how it has anything to do with cashgrab DLC.

    Expansions used to be much more then just 5 maps or 2 new characters.
    When i hear "Expansion" i think of stuff like "Throne of Baal" for BaldursGateII or Lord of Destruction for DiabloII.
    DLC killed the "real "ExpansionPacks and it's just one more reason to hate it imo.

    It looks like they try to push it even further this gen and i simply can't have that

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