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  1. #1
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    When will Digital Distribution be a legit alternative to consoles?

    UPDATE: Overnight EA cut the price of its PlayStation 4 games by 3 on the PlayStation Store.Yesterday gamers reacted in anger when it emerged that EA was charging a whopping 63 for its PS4 games, including FIFA 14 and Battlefield 4, when bought from the PlayStation Store.

    Curiously, this figure was 8 more than the games cost on Xbox One's Games Store.
    Now, EA games cost 59.99 - a 3 reduction, but still 5 more than on Xbox One.
    EA is yet to explain this price difference. Eurogamer has once again asked the publisher for comment.

    ORIGINAL STORY: EA's five PlayStation 4 games cost an eye-watering 63 from the PlayStation Store.
    The PS4 isn't out in the UK yet, but the UK PlayStation Store is now live - and we've been able to verify game prices.
    EA's five next-gen games are FIFA 14, Battlefield 4, NBA Live 14, Need for Speed: Rivals and Madden NFL 25.

    The following is the list of games currently on the PlayStation Store in the UK, alongside their prices:

    • Angry Birds Star Wars: 32.99
    • Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag: 57.99
    • Battlefield 4: 62.99
    • Call of Duty: Ghosts: 54.99
    • Contrast: 12.79
    • FIFA 14: 62.99
    • Injustice: Gods Among Us Ultimate Edition: 52.99
    • Just Dance 2014: 42.99
    • Killzone Shadow Fall: 52.99
    • Knack: 52.99
    • Lego Marvel Super Heroes: 52.99
    • Madden NFL 25: 62.99
    • NBA Live 14: 62.99
    • Need for Speed: Rivals: 62.99
    • Putty Squad: 13.99
    • Resogun: 12.79
    • Super Motherload: 11.99
    • Trine 2: Complete Story: 14.49
    • Warframe: free


    EA's PS4 games are 8 more than their Xbox One counterparts. FIFA 14 and co are 54.99 on the Xbox Games Store. Eurogamer published an article listing the games, their install sizes and prices from the Xbox One Games Store last week.
    Even EA DLC is more expensive on PS4. Battlefield 4 premium is 39.99 on Xbox One and 42.99 on PS4.

    Why the high cost on PS4? We've asked EA UK for comment.
    EA isn't the only publisher with higher PS4 prices. Ubisoft is at it too, although the price differential is lower: 3.
    Assassin's Creed 4 is 58 on PS4 and 55 on Xbox One. Just Dance 2014 is 40 on Xbox One and 43 on PS4. We've asked for comment.
    It should be noted that both Microsoft and Sony do not set the price of third-party published games on their digital store fronts.

    Meanwhile, gamers are complaining about how much these games cost in the UK compared to how much they cost in the US, where Sony is charging $59.99 for digital PS4 games.
    One upset customer is Tim Kane, who contacted Eurogamer to say he was considering cancelling his PS4 pre-order.

    "This is why I am VERY MUCH considering cancelling my PS4 pre-order," he said. "I urge others to do the same.
    "It's insulting that you would charge MORE for digital purchases that cost LESS to deliver, and that are arguably LESS VALUABLE to the consumer as they hold ZERO resale value.

    "The fact that such disparity appears to be market dependent suggests that some markets are given more (less) respect than others. It's offensive, it insults our intelligence as consumers, and it's downright despicable business practice.

    "Please revisit your digital marketplace pricing policies, as this alienates consumers and puts them at odds with adopting what should be a truly next-gen digital platform."
    Just saw this article and it got me thinking. Why do Sony/EA or whoever sets the pricing think it is acceptable to bend a customer over a barrel so easily and get away with it?

    I love digital games and I see them as my primary way of acquiring games from now on (I counted my the value of my Steam account recently and it's worth over 1000! even with the games at sale prices.) but with pricing the way they are at the moment that surely can't expect someone to pay 50-60 for a digital title? The last game I bought for 40 was Guild Wars 2 but you get a hell of a lot of game for that price plus it was on disc.

    Typically I buy new releases for no more than 30 with digital download and that is the most I expect it to be. We are moving into the digital era so why do the publisher insist on getting every penny that they can out of the customer?

    Until whoever sets the pricing gets realistic then I don't think DD will ever be successful in the console world. Which is a shame as I find it infinitely more convenient.

    Sort it out publishers.

  2. #2
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    Not anytime soon. with MASSIVE installs and insane prices you'd be crazy to go Download Only.

    I'm fine for it on my PC, but consoles are a different beast

  3. #3
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    I disagree about the install sizes. Granted I have the internet speed to make DD a viable form of getting my games and not every one does but I still don't think that gives them the right to charge me more for it.

    As of now the only reason I wouldn't go DD on consoles is due to price.

  4. #4
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    What do you mean by alternative? Do you mean as an honest competitor and viable option, or as a total replacement of discs? If it's the former, I think the consoles are clearly sliding into that exactly right now. If it's the latter... then not any time soon, no. The digital side of the consoles need to go through some serious growing pains first.

    PC gamers are spoiled rotten with sales and cheaper digital titles because there's an open market for it. GreenManGaming, Good Ol' Games, Steam, Origin, Amazon, etc are all competing. On the consoles, Sony and Microsoft have no competition, and so have no reason to streamline the offerings of their digital titles. That is going to be a hell of a thing for either of them to relinquish control over. The simplest way would be to let the developers do battle on these digital platforms by competing in price against other developers. Publishers can actively change their prices and throw sales a their leisure. Giving that 50% discount for a week can knock out your biggest opponent(s) for a while, if not completely draw attention from them in the long run and thus proving beneficiary for you. That, or it may break your income during that time and prove fruitless.

    Even if we get over the wall of Sony or MS allowing this for their console, the largest issue of this is the budget to develop games. Currently development for consoles is much higher than PC -- one could even call it bloated. This is because PC development requires you to utilize your working force and funds much more efficiently to get by. It's a tougher environment, but that stringency comes to benefit the consumer. Anyone who's gamed on the PC can vouch for that. It's a risky thing to switch over to, and one reason why many publishers shy from the PC market in the first place.

    Unfortunately I think they realize this, and so they will slowly move the consoles to full digital over this generation, Microsoft and Sony keeping prices high and balanced, and the companies will absorb the potential benefits instead.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 11-26-2013 at 10:02.
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    When I say alternative I don't mean a straight swap. I think physical media will always be around but I'd like it if DD was priced competitively against the disc versions. Hell, I bought CoD: Ghosts and BF4 for LESS than what the price of just Ghosts is on the PS4.

    I'm not a business savvy person so i don't know of all the overheads that go into these costs but I just don't agree that something that can be resold costs less than something that cant.

    As I said, I much prefer DD over physical and given the choice i'll always go for it unless i absolutely have to get it on disc. Just hoping by the time I get a PS4 I'll be able to continue that trend.

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    When console gamers stop stroking their discs is when ti will happen. Right now they are not ready for it as proved by the MS backlash.

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    Digital titles should definitely be cheaper, and I think they will exercise on that somewhat. It's really going to be up to the console gamers and how loud they are about it. But my concern is of their long-term goals. I think on a digital-only (or mostly digital) console they will operate to soak up the benefits of having such control over the digital platform. Game prices will ease back up so they can make those higher profits, and what other choices will be available for the consumes there? There won't be one.
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    When will DD be a legit alternative to consoles?
    When they have game sizes, download speeds, and prices of Steam.





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    EA should be sued for price fixing.
    Last edited by MacP; 11-26-2013 at 10:33.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacP View Post
    EA should be sued for price fixing.
    Your job as a consumer is to recognize when you are being shafted and vote with your wallet to convince these companies they cant get away with bull$#@! so they change policies and how they do things. The problem is the majority of consumers dont do their job so everyone gets shafted for years and these companies make millions off it. EA and others arent doing anything illegal they just know the majority of consumers are too lazy and stupid to do their jobs so they are gonna take as much money as they can get. Just learn from your mistakes and vote with your wallet.





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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsJester View Post
    Your job as a consumer is to recognize when you are being shafted and vote with your wallet to convince these companies they cant get away with bull$#@! so they change policies and how they do things. The problem is the majority of consumers dont do their job so everyone gets shafted for years and these companies make millions off it. EA and others arent doing anything illegal they just know the majority of consumers are too lazy and stupid to do their jobs so they are gonna take as much money as they can get. Just learn from your mistakes and vote with your wallet.
    In this country it is illegal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacP View Post
    In this country it is illegal.
    Oh interesting. I didnt know this. I suggest you report it then.





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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsJester View Post
    EA and others arent doing anything illegal they just know the majority of consumers are too lazy and stupid to do their jobs so they are gonna take as much money as they can get. Just learn from your mistakes and vote with your wallet.
    I never understood why people keep reusing this reasoning when it is self-defeating.
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    At least in the States, ebooks are the only entertainment medium consistently sold at substantial retail discount over physical media. For various reasons. Paper books cost a lot to manufacture and distribute. There is substantial savings to the publisher in the cost of goods sold. And between the publishers and booksellers there is an industry tradition of buying back unsold books. Basically, publishers sell booksellers paper books and agree to buy back what the booksellers can't sell. There's nothing to buy back, and no refund to retailers, if ebooks don't sell.

    Physical media distributed games, movies and music, the don't cost nearly as much to produce and ship as paper books. And there's no longstanding tradition of buy-back agreements. Retailers are usually, at least in some way, stuck with inventory they can't move. There may be refunds of partial wholesale cost based on publisher price cuts, or publishers may elect to refund in part or whole for content that tanks at retail in order maintain good relationships with their retailers, but, generally speaking, there's nothing like the no-risk arrangement book publishers offer booksellers.

    Finally, games today are sold on the retail software sales model that had subsumed all other retail software sales models no later than 1990. They're not selling the physical media, they're selling the content. Actually, they're not even selling the content. They're selling an open-ended license to use the content. You pay US$60 for a game, you don't own anything. You enter into an agreement that allows you to play the game, an agreement the publisher can alter or terminate any time they wish. (What's known as "the right of first sale" under American copyright law, and similar doctrine in other countries, is relevant to physical media but it's a whole other story.)

    So, if you're a publisher, and you're not selling a disc and a case and box art and a game for US$60, but merely a license to play the game, to use content, why would you charge less for that license solely based upon how the end user acquires the content?

    In practice there are all sorts of reasons to offer discounts for digitally distributed games, but in theory there are just as many good reasons to sell digital at the same price as physical. Games publishers sell on the theory rather than the practice because it greatly favors their revenue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsJester View Post
    When will DD be a legit alternative to consoles?
    When they have game sizes, download speeds, and prices of Steam.
    /thread




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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsJester View Post
    When will DD be a legit alternative to consoles?
    When they have game sizes, download speeds, and prices of Steam.
    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    /thread
    You're right, it's a thread-closing statement but it's not going to happen across distribution systems that vary by console type. Steam is tantamount to the iOS app store, for PCs instead of iPhone and iPads. It's got virtually no competition so it can operate as a closed ecosystem and set pricing and its own cut as it wishes. There could be competition, since it's a PC and not a proprietary consumer device, but no one's yet managed to get more than a few toes in the door. If there were numerous outlets with the sheer numbers of costumers as Steam, Steam couldn't even be Steam anymore.

    I should add, the thing is that it's not a games digital distribution issue, it's a digital distribution issue for all entertainment media save books, and right now, across the board, you don't get a price break on anything but books. Publishers of any sort of media are either making enough via digital distribution pricing the way they do, or they don't yet care if they make enough. Digital distribution isn't for customers. It's for publishers. Everybody's trying to figure out the pricing model as if digital distribution is for customers, so it's confounding why digital isn't designed to better appeal to costumers. But it's not for customers.
    Last edited by sanfordmay; 11-26-2013 at 14:18.

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    Steam isn't the only place to buy games and more often than not Steam doesn't offer the cheapest prices outside of sales. I use other websites Such as CDKeyhouse, CJS-Keys, GreenManGaming and so on to buy my games and download them through Steam.

    The problem lies with the publisher setting prices and the best explanation i've seen so far has come from Sandfordmay.

    I just think it's a bit of bum move from publishers and/or Sony/MS when they clearly inflate the prices the way they do.

  19. #18
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    When prices are competitive and not more expensive than having the retail copy. When there's sales (Steam like) quarterly, Why would you pay $60 for a game that has been out for a year or two?

    It also actually cost less to sell digital games than retail and yet the prices are exactly the same!

    Publishers Like EA and Activision for example have the worst prices for games that they sell digitally, Sony is also joining in!

    For me, i would be Ok going all digital when i can get the game 25% cheaper than retail.




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    The reason why digital games aren't sold for 20 $ is that the shops would die as they have no choice than selling the new games for 60 $ (and they make maybe 5-8 $ of it). The real question is if all games are sold digitally, will we see 20 or 15 $ games (which could be true as the cost per game would be ridiculous as no more physical disc cost, no more transport cost from disc factory to disc burning and printing, no transport to packaging disc factory, no transport to shops, no production of packaging cover, no shop share)?
    Of course no, because the game publishers will sell them for 50 $ and say it's the best they can do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBreezyBB View Post
    It also actually cost less to sell digital games than retail and yet the prices are exactly the same!
    See my post above about that, but succinctly, as close as I can get on this topic to twitter-compatible:

    Media publishers do not like customers. They suffer customers only to the extent required to meet profit goals.

    Less succinctly, it's all industry in general but realize it's the WHOLE games industry, too, the press outlets and, especially important to bear in mind, our practically canonized games developers. It's all well and good to have "diehard gamer advocate" type developers like Cliff Bleszinski go up a wall when Microsoft first wouldn't give Gears of War DLC away for free. But how much is Bleszinski worth from the kind of margins publishers make on AAA games and their DLC, the kind of licensing fees Epic charges to use their engines? Give me a break, Bleszinski blows his stack because Microsoft wants in on as much as they can get, too. Another example, Ken Levine. Now I like Ken Levine just fine. I loved BioShock. I really like BioShock Infinite, too. But BioShock Infinite is not a BioShock game. It is, or should have been, an entirely different game but it's got BioShock stuff hung off of it so Irrational's parent Take-Two would fund the game and Ken can keep his job.

    I don't think Bleszinski or Levine are bad guys. I think they're mostly good guys. They're good guys who, like the rest of us, will do what is necessary, dilute the creative energy to make the money their investors want made, shorten or reduce the quality of a game or its DLC to cut costs to meet budgets, so they can keep their exceptionally comfortable wages doing something they like to do.

    I don't get why the games industry, games developers and creatives in particular, are supposed to be so different than the rest of the entertainment industry. Most everyone loves Christopher Nolan films. People go see Christopher Nolan films in droves, in goddamn herds. But no one thinks that really, deep down in his heart of hearts, Nolan wants to be their friend. On the other hand, a whole hell of a lot gamers seem to believe that if he only had the time between managing the BioShock franchise and writing the new Logan's Run film adaptation, Ken Levine would definitely want to party with them. Newsflash, no he doesn't. All Ken Levine wants is his games just good enough so he at least doesn't feel dirty making them and so they sell well enough he makes a nice wage and his publishers let him keep making the sorts of games that at least lean at what he wants to make. For that he's willing to twist any game concept he comes up with into a BioShock game. And, you know what, I don't blame him.

    Back to twitter mode:

    Nobody is going to give you 30% off a digital game they know you'll pay full freight for on a rainy Saturday morning you don't want to dash out to Walmart for a disc copy.

  22. #21
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    if consoles ever go fully digital Ill never buy another console again, im not in to anything digital like movies & games I fully aware of it but I like the disc formats an blu-ray movies are much better an with beyond price tags on digital games that pushes me off the edge already an i wont pay that for it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by nextgen3 View Post
    if consoles ever go fully digital Ill never buy another console again, im not in to anything digital like movies & games I fully aware of it but I like the disc formats an blu-ray movies are much better an with beyond price tags on digital games that pushes me off the edge already an i wont pay that for it.

    And that's why I think it's a long time before things go fully digital. You're 29. I'm 45. That's a pretty wide generational gap yet we're both still quite attached to physical media for movies and games. Music is another story; it's been widely accepted across generations digitally distributed. People buy vinyl and digital but not so many bother with CDs anymore. Same for books, lots of people across generations buy ebooks and paper books. I'll buy digital games here or there, certainly if there's no disc format available, maybe rarely for convenience, but I'll almost always opt for disc.

    That's may well be the core reason there's no aggressive digital pricing. They can't price it low enough to get the discs out of our hands. If the audience isn't there, if the audience will pay some premium for disc media, why bother lowballing digital prices? My kids' generation, maybe, but then maybe not as vinyl records are unique and a novelty to them but they're growing up with movies and games on discs because of me. They may well expect games and movies on disc when they're adults. Hell, they're pretty. The art is nice. Feels like you've really got something for the money you spent. Limited and deluxe editions of games full of statuette and art books and special still sell out or mostly out, and if that's still happening the consumer audience is definitely not drifting to all digital.

    They can force us to digital by not offering major AAA titles on disc at all. But that's a dangerous game, if you'll pardon the pun.

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsJester View Post
    When will DD be a legit alternative to consoles?
    When they have game sizes, download speeds, and prices of Steam.
    Ding, ding, ding. I'll be more inclined to jump on board if/when this is the case. With that said, when it comes to console gaming I tend to prefer the physical format.


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    Part of the solution is to buy discounted PSN cards. I have regularly been able to get at least 20% off at online sites like CDKey. These bring most games down to roughly retail. Other than rip off EA games that is.

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    when a 3rd party company charges more for same games in digital distribution on one platform over another, something is fishy. Another $$$ hat trick from MS?
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