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    Is modern feminism still a necessity in western culture?

    I just finished debating this with a friend of mine, and he forfeited because he couldn't provide for his side of the argument. So I want to continue it here.

    I think we all agree historical feminism has been a good thing, and that feminism may still be required in other areas of the world. But this topic resides primarily around the United States, Canada, and Europe. There's been a resurgence of feminism over the past couple of decades, coined modern feminism. I don't find it to be a valuable thing any longer. Not only has it become a pervasive trend over the last few years across normal and social media, but it still mostly only focuses on rights for women, not men.

    Yet in western culture, society has progressed a long way. Largely speaking, men and women are treated near-equally now. Neither gender has a large benefit over the other any longer, so why not drop the feminist movement here and move on to full gender rights movement?

    The reason is because feminists believe that there is still an unfair disparity between women and men. I've seen many arguments to support this thought process, but have yet to be convinced. I'm curious as to what you guys have to say on the matter.

    Keep things civil.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 11-29-2013 at 07:21.

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    Feminism and equality are not the same thing in my eyes.

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    I wanted to say something on the matter - but then you said "keep it civil".

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Feminism and equality are not the same thing in my eyes.


    Feminist drive me mad. I'll agree and say it has no place in western culture as if anything, women have it easier.

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    Feminism is wrong. It is wrong now and it was wrong in the past. Feminism doesn't seek equality between the sexes and it doesn't want it that way. What feminism seeks is the complete female domination over men in society without any of the responsibilities associated with it. There is a reason why some cultures don't allow their women to have certain rights and privileges and it's because women will always cry foul/wolf/biased/unfair no matter how much ground is given. If anything, feminism and by extension, gender based movements, are detrimental to both sexes and in extreme cases, dangerous and suicidal for the species.

    If you want a better movement, try the liberty movement. Afterall, rights are for the individual, not for groups or classes of people.

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    Lets see, how can I put this in a civil manner.....

    every time I hear a feminist speak, or read an article or anything of that sort, all I can think is "B*tch Please"

    I can't help it. Maybe I'm jaded and biased but that's how it it for me

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    I'm a woman so I am biased. However, I will give my 01 cent on this topic. Take it as you will.

    I live in Northern Mississippi. I live in the Southern United States. Let me tell you what it's like to be a BLACK FEMALE in the South.

    5 a.m. I wake in the morning and try to get on the internet. My father has a $#@!ing cow and my mother is like, "You don't even pay for the $#@!ing internet!" He says, "It's my $#@!ing house, get the $#@! out you don't like it!"

    6 a.m. I go out to the store and have the $#@!ing door slammed in my face TWICE by two $#@!ing men, one black and one white. One of them laughs and OPENS the $#@!ing door for another man in FRONT of me.

    9 a.m. I walk by a group of male students and am called a "ho" "$#@!" "skank" and not only just me, another pretty girl walks by and they call her all kinds of $#@!. Tell her "Hey $#@!, suck my $#@!". Neither she or I say anything, because these are athletes and they DO get away with RAPE and assaults all the damn time.

    3 p.m. I hear ANOTHER rumor about a so called "white knight" man cheating on his wife and his wife confronting him about it. He beats her and the police don't do $#@! about it.

    That's just a BIT of what I go through a day. Sorry about the language.

    I hate to say this and sound like a "feminist" but women do NOT have equal rights, not even here in the States. They simply do not. WE are being sex trafficed, men yes, but the majority are women. NOTHING is being done about young girls getting kidnapped by pimps!

    Conspiracy theory or not, I believe the reason so much suicides are being focused on because MEN are doing it more now. More men are jumping off of bridges now.

    There's more, but let's keep it to 01 cent.

    End.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post


    Feminist drive me mad. I'll agree and say it has no place in western culture as if anything, women have it easier.
    Interesting image for the topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post


    Feminist drive me mad. I'll agree and say it has no place in western culture as if anything, women have it easier.
    I agree and even then feminist Have no place as women themselves degraded themselves in videos and other culture. In fact women have it much easier in western culture then men do.
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    What Morganator says. At least, this is how I'm observing it too, lately. Have you heard of a blog called Jezebel? Social media combined with pop culture and femenism at its core. They have articles on how much a man should pay for a date, which according to them, has to be $200 on average to be even considered a gentleman. Then they have article on what dress Nicki Minaj wears right under it. It's really pathetic how full of $#@! blogs and websites like that example are. I've never facepalmed so much. And what's this about rape culture I'm hearing about so often around colleges? Yes, it is a place where that can happen, but it seems to me, a lot of generalizations are being made against men regarding rape, if you meet certain criteria, even if it's as innocent as going to the pub with friends.

    You mentioned gender rights movement, now there's an idea. For starters, women are treated equally to men regarding criminal offenses and sentencing. No double standards anymore.


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    The whole feminist movement made sense in giving women the right to vote, jobs, equality in the business world, etc etc. The problem now is that the feminist movement has went the way of anti-woman more than favored and proper rights for women.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I'm a woman so I am biased. However, I will give my 01 cent on this topic. Take it as you will.

    I live in Northern Mississippi. I live in the Southern United States. Let me tell you what it's like to be a BLACK FEMALE in the South.

    5 a.m. I wake in the morning and try to get on the internet. My father has a $#@!ing cow and my mother is like, "You don't even pay for the $#@!ing internet!" He says, "It's my $#@!ing house, get the $#@! out you don't like it!"

    6 a.m. I go out to the store and have the $#@!ing door slammed in my face TWICE by two $#@!ing men, one black and one white. One of them laughs and OPENS the $#@!ing door for another man in FRONT of me.

    9 a.m. I walk by a group of male students and am called a "ho" "$#@!" "skank" and not only just me, another pretty girl walks by and they call her all kinds of $#@!. Tell her "Hey $#@!, suck my $#@!". Neither she or I say anything, because these are athletes and they DO get away with RAPE and assaults all the damn time.

    3 p.m. I hear ANOTHER rumor about a so called "white knight" man cheating on his wife and his wife confronting him about it. He beats her and the police don't do $#@! about it.

    That's just a BIT of what I go through a day. Sorry about the language.

    I hate to say this and sound like a "feminist" but women do NOT have equal rights, not even here in the States. They simply do not. WE are being sex trafficed, men yes, but the majority are women. NOTHING is being done about young girls getting kidnapped by pimps!

    Conspiracy theory or not, I believe the reason so much suicides are being focused on because MEN are doing it more now. More men are jumping off of bridges now.

    There's more, but let's keep it to 01 cent.

    End.
    Your problem isn't really men though. Your problem is with individuals with no common decency and respect for anyone around them. Your geographical location has nothing to do with your treatment. Sorry to be short with you. I'm on a tablet and can't really type fast enough.

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    Feminism needs a LOT of work. Feminism seems to be a white woman's game for the most part as well. Women of any other color don't really get anything from it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Your problem isn't really men though. Your problem is with individuals with no common decency and respect for anyone around them. Your geographical location has nothing to do with your treatment. Sorry to be short with you. I'm on a tablet and can't really type fast enough.
    It's okay about being short.

    One question:

    Do you think if I lived in New York, New York I would:
    go through the same thing?
    And go through it the same amount of times?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acid Snake View Post
    Feminism needs a LOT of work. Feminism seems to be a white woman's game for the most part as well. Women of any other color don't really get anything from it.
    Firetrucking truth! Black women and other women of color need help too!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    I just finished debating this with a friend of mine, and he forfeited because he couldn't provide for his side of the argument. So I want to continue it here.

    I think we all agree historical feminism has been a good thing, and that feminism may still be required in other areas of the world. But this topic resides primarily around the United States, Canada, and Europe. There's been a resurgence of feminism over the past couple of days, coined modern feminism. I don't find it to be a valuable thing any longer. Not only has it become a pervasive trend over the last few years across normal and social media, but it still mostly only focuses on rights for women, not men.

    Yet in western culture, society has progressed a long way. Largely speaking, men and women are treated near-equally now. Neither gender has a large benefit over the other any longer, so why not drop the feminist movement here and move on to full gender rights movement?

    The reason is because feminists believe that there is still an unfair disparity between women and men. I've seen many arguments to support this thought process, but have yet to be convinced. I'm curious as to what you guys have to say on the matter.

    Keep things civil.


    Couldn't agree with you more Destroyer. My recommendation, read "The Myth of Male Power"* by Warren Farrell.

    My only nitpick is that I think men are, actually, being slightly left behind when it comes towards elevating their status. We're still basically stuck in the same gender archetype we've always been in (expendable, women and children to the lifeboats, worth is measured in $$$, etc).


    *http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Male-Powe.../dp/0425181448


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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    Feminism is wrong. It is wrong now and it was wrong in the past. Feminism doesn't seek equality between the sexes and it doesn't want it that way. What feminism seeks is the complete female domination over men in society without any of the responsibilities associated with it.
    That's not accurate at all. Feminism is what gave women in this country the right to vote and to be paid equally. It also brought to light the widespread problem of rape, which before the 1970's was not well recognized by society and the court. It has helped equalize women to men in responsible and meaningful ways.

    Feminism was not, and is not, a movement to usurp men. You're thinking of the crazy, radical women that claim to be feminists, but are actual just man-haters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    There is a reason why some cultures don't allow their women to have certain rights and privileges and it's because women will always cry foul/wolf/biased/unfair no matter how much ground is given.
    Yes. That reason is sexism.

    Quote Originally Posted by DreDayDetox View Post
    And what's this about rape culture I'm hearing about so often around colleges? Yes, it is a place where that can happen, but it seems to me, a lot of generalizations are being made against men regarding rape, if you meet certain criteria, even if it's as innocent as going to the pub with friends.
    Rape culture is an empty argument feminists use to exacerbate their agenda. The expression revolves around the notion that rape is 'normalized' and accepted in a society. This is, of course, absolutely ridiculous, and anyone who believes it exists in their own separate world.

    ... Well, only in regards to women. Rape is well accepted by society when it comes to male prisoners. But many feminists are keen on ignoring that, instead focusing on women being raped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    My only nitpick is that I think men are, actually, being slightly left behind when it comes towards elevating their status. We're still basically stuck in the same gender archetype we've always been in (expendable, women and children to the lifeboats, worth is measured in $$$, etc).
    You're completely correct.

    Men haven't gained the progressive treatment yet that women have, and that concerns me in many ways. Men are still expected to be the family-providers, the ones to step up and take charge, and the ones to take the fall if necessary. In regards to males, being raped, abused, sexually assaulted, harassed, or stalked is not taken anywhere as seriously as it is for women. We're expected to suck it up and continue on, and any lesser display is one open for mocking and humiliation by others.

    And that is my issue with feminism. Why? Because it's entirely egocentric, amply possessing the traction and weight to shift society for the better, yet it only focuses on half the goddamn population. Indeed, the reasoning of many modern feminists is the belief that these social inequalities (media portrayal, gender expectations, equal treatment under law, etc) are only exclusive to women. That, or they plainly ignore the disadvantages still present with men in favor of still helping women first and foremost. This is ignorant, if not outright selfish.

    The simple truth is not that women are treated worse, or that men are, or even both -- it's that everyone is, in their own way. Every single human being is predisposed to preconceptions and bias, whether conscious or not. People are going to treat a tall man differently than a short man. A white woman will be treated differently than a black woman -- a rich person than a poor person. That's part of being a human being in a human society.

    We need to recognize that if equality is ever meant to be achieved. At the very least, if you're going to have a movement and group based solely around gender equality, then focus on both genders. That is equality. Feminism needs to mature as an agenda, or die to be replaced by something greater.

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    I'm going to say something controversial here... Women are conditioned to be selfish and it is entirely possible that some amount of narcissism is an inherited trait. Think about it, women have always been shelters and protected in societies. As we have already covered, males are expected to be comparatively selfless and providers. Ergo a woman's role was to survive and nurture. So, seeing this display from modern feminism is hardly surprising. We enable and encourage the behavior as a society, but we dare not publicly discuss this trait as though it were real for fear of enraging them and being called sexist.


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    So a while ago I wrote a couple articles dealing with this topic, and additionally racism, for the site in terms of the video game world.

    http://www.psu.com/a018657/Sexism-in-Video-Games

    http://www.psu.com/a018913/Video-gam...-line-of-truth

    http://www.psu.com/a019994/Damsel-in-distress

    I had a crazy long debate with a bunch of people about this on a Facebook debate group. The major problem with modern feminism is two-fold. Firstly the name has become a verbal swastika. Say the word feminism and it is automatically loved or hated, no in-between. For or against it without any research done. I use a swastika because before I lived in Asia I only thought it had to do with Nazis. Little did I know it is a positive Bhuddist symbol. Feminism used to be positive, like the swastika, but now it has become a negative symbol through other's abuse.

    Secondly, and by far the most important, is the movement is splintered into so many conflicting groups that it is beyond ridiculous. Women attack other women for perceived slights against their notion of what the 'women's cause' is, or at the very least denigrate them by saying tripe like 'oh, they are just internalizing their oppression.'

    Porn is the big battle ground when it comes to feminists, with some for it as being sexually positive while others think it is demeaning to women. I did over half of my uni sociology major on sexism/racism and it was surprising to find out how biased the entertainment industry is for female porn stars and against male porn stars. One of the best documentaries I have ever watched is called Pornstar: The Legend of Ron Jeremy. I recommend that for a real insight on sexism in the porn industry.

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    I see feminists groups in the same way I see most other groups. It's not about equality, it's about achieving superiority.

    For example..... men's health clubs. I remember women's groups suing clubs that women were denied access to them. Yet these very same women think it's okay for WOMEN ONLY clubs because they felt they needed a club where men wouldn't stare at their bodies as they worked out. The OKAY FOR ME, NOT FOR THEE syndrome.

    Same with blacks. 60 minutes did a story on where blacks would get scholarships to predominately white colleges with the scholarship being setup up with the explicit purpose of racially diversifying colleges. The very same scholarship is also used to put whites in predominately and historically black college campuses. They then had a panel of black students from a black college to ask their opinions on it all. They ALL felt it was okay for the scholarship to diversify white colleges, but thought white students shouldn't get it to diversify black colleges.

    Among other words.... it's not about it working BOTH ways to be equal, it's about it only working to the benefit of THEM through ONE way.

    I mean.... if a women doesn't work and is the housewife doing the cleaning duties while the man is off working to pay the bills...that's Okay. NOW.... have the roles reversed and the man is looked down upon by women... telling him to go get a job!
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 11-30-2013 at 09:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I'm a woman so I am biased. However, I will give my 01 cent on this topic. Take it as you will.

    I live in Northern Mississippi. I live in the Southern United States. Let me tell you what it's like to be a BLACK FEMALE in the South.

    5 a.m. I wake in the morning and try to get on the internet. My father has a $#@!ing cow and my mother is like, "You don't even pay for the $#@!ing internet!" He says, "It's my $#@!ing house, get the $#@! out you don't like it!"

    6 a.m. I go out to the store and have the $#@!ing door slammed in my face TWICE by two $#@!ing men, one black and one white. One of them laughs and OPENS the $#@!ing door for another man in FRONT of me.

    9 a.m. I walk by a group of male students and am called a "ho" "$#@!" "skank" and not only just me, another pretty girl walks by and they call her all kinds of $#@!. Tell her "Hey $#@!, suck my $#@!". Neither she or I say anything, because these are athletes and they DO get away with RAPE and assaults all the damn time.

    3 p.m. I hear ANOTHER rumor about a so called "white knight" man cheating on his wife and his wife confronting him about it. He beats her and the police don't do $#@! about it.

    That's just a BIT of what I go through a day. Sorry about the language.

    I hate to say this and sound like a "feminist" but women do NOT have equal rights, not even here in the States. They simply do not. WE are being sex trafficed, men yes, but the majority are women. NOTHING is being done about young girls getting kidnapped by pimps!

    Conspiracy theory or not, I believe the reason so much suicides are being focused on because MEN are doing it more now. More men are jumping off of bridges now.

    There's more, but let's keep it to 01 cent.

    End.
    I'm interested in some of your comments. Particularly how adamant you are that women do not have equal rights with men in the US. Can you quantify? Which rights do men have that women do not?

    On domestic violence, isn't there legislation like Title IX and 'Dominant aggressor' policies that essentially put the protection of the female before the male? i.e. even if it was the man being a victim of domestic violence, he'd be removed from the home simply because he was perceived to be a greater threat? If so, then the complaint about the 'white knight' needs to be pushed. Although, the fact you use the word 'rumour' then conflate that with a judgement of guilt on his part says you are believing something without good reason to.

    If that's what you go through as a matter of course, it's really sh*tty - no doubt. But none of it says lesser rights than a male. Just a collection of people doing a variety of not very nice things to each other.

    P.S. Feminist does not automatically mean woman. Feminism is an ideology, not a gender.

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    How about some male-ism when it comes to child custody and how the courts clearly allow women to rape men financially?

    It goes both ways, more so now then ever

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I'm a woman so I am biased. However, I will give my 01 cent on this topic. Take it as you will.

    I live in Northern Mississippi. I live in the Southern United States. Let me tell you what it's like to be a BLACK FEMALE in the South.

    5 a.m. I wake in the morning and try to get on the internet. My father has a $#@!ing cow and my mother is like, "You don't even pay for the $#@!ing internet!" He says, "It's my $#@!ing house, get the $#@! out you don't like it!"
    How old are you? Over 18? If you are then guess what.... You are an adult woman who is relying on a MAN to support you. Not very feministic if you ask me.

    6 a.m. I go out to the store and have the $#@!ing door slammed in my face TWICE by two $#@!ing men, one black and one white. One of them laughs and OPENS the $#@!ing door for another man in FRONT of me.
    Hmmm, two men SLAM the door in your face for absolutely no reason at all.

    Sorry, but in my 44 years on this earth I have never once seen that happen. I've seen people get doors slammed in their faces before, but never twice, and never with no reason at all for it happening.

    9 a.m. I walk by a group of male students and am called a "ho" "$#@!" "skank" and not only just me, another pretty girl walks by and they call her all kinds of $#@!. Tell her "Hey $#@!, suck my $#@!". Neither she or I say anything, because these are athletes and they DO get away with RAPE and assaults all the damn time.
    And girls NEVER call other people names, right? Girls are NEVER bullies, right?


    3 p.m. I hear ANOTHER rumor about a so called "white knight" man cheating on his wife and his wife confronting him about it. He beats her and the police don't do $#@! about it.
    I hear rumors about things that black people do all of the time. Should I believe all of those rumors just like you believe this one?



    I hate to say this and sound like a "feminist" but women do NOT have equal rights, not even here in the States. They simply do not.
    I don't think you know what rights are. You certainly haven't given a single example of men having more than women. Can you slam doors in the face of men? Can you be verbally abusive towards men? Can you tell rumors about men? Then you have all of the same rights as the men you are complaining about. You can do everything that they can do. You ARE EQUAL.


    WE are being sex trafficed, men yes, but the majority are women. NOTHING is being done about young girls getting kidnapped by pimps!
    Oh right. And I'm sure none of these sex-trade women got into the business under their own accord and own choice, right? They were all little innocent girls and all virgins until they were kidnapped by pimps, right?



    Conspiracy theory or not, I believe the reason so much suicides are being focused on because MEN are doing it more now. More men are jumping off of bridges now.
    Yeah, you're not very well educated, are you?

    Men have ALWAYS had a far higher suicide rate than women. In the US, the rate has been as high as 10:1. Ten males commit suicide for every 1 female. Furthermore, females are 21% more likely to receive mental health treatment than males. It's ALWAYS been that way.

    Like most conspiracy theories, yours is based in uneducated ignorance and couldn't be more wrong. Typical of a "feminist".

  33. #24
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    My problem with feminism is that too many of the feminists I've encountered are hypocrites. They preach equality, but still want to keep the traditions that favor women.

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  35. #25
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    I think this is mostly a front. It's women upset with sexist men but masked as some 'equal rights' movement. Regardless of whether men and women have equal rights under the law that doesn't mean they are treated the same. Some men will treat women like they're dumb as dirt, she obviously doesn't know anything after all she IS a women. Some women will treat men like violent, perverted pigs who just want to get her in bed then chuck her. Same goes for people of different races(that's not the topic so I'll leave that alone.)

    Point is people are biased. They make assumptions about other people based on the clothes they wear, their hair, the color of their skin and what's between their legs. Unfortunately some people are rude, ignorant and unreachable no matter how much sense you try to talk into them. So that's what I think. Women upset with men being sexist. Somehow thinking that if they shout loud enough and long enough about women not having equal rights, that that will make men stop being sexist.

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