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  1. #1
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    Xbox One reverse engineered.

    http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/17...-for-small-gpu

    The Xbox One die is 363 square millimeters, up from the PS4′s 348 sq mm. The 5% additional space, despite having the smaller GPU core, is mostly due to RAM. The Xbox One contains a whopping 47MB of on-die RAM, and that pushes the die size up considerably. It’s also why Microsoft didn’t have room on the APU for a larger GPU.

    There are some interesting differences to explore. First, consider the Xbox One’s Jaguar CPU blocks. Like the PS4, it has two quad-core chips — but the Xbox One has a bit of circuitry hanging off the CPU that the PS4 lacks. Here’s a comparison of the Xbox One and PS4 CPU islands. We had to rotate the blocks to line them up identically, which is why the label is reversed.
    XBO ________________________________________PS4



    See the block in red? The PS4 doesn’t seem to have an equivalent. What it actually does is unclear. It’s a bit large to be the built-in audio or the IOMMU that HSA theoretically requires. There’s nothing analogous on any of the Kabini floor plans we’ve ever seen.

    (It’s also possible that this is a Photoshop artifact or deliberate obfuscation. Companies often mask details on die shots. )

    Now, over to the GPU. Like the Sony PS4, the Xbox One contains more Compute Units than are actually active on the console. The chip has 14 CUs, 12 of which are turned on, while the PS4 has 18 active CUs out of a 20 on-die. These are disabled to improve yield. Whether Sony or Microsoft might one day choose to enable the CUs in future console versions is an unknown — typically console manufacturers don’t update core specs post-launch, but consoles have been trending towards greater upgradeability over the past two generations. It’s not impossible that this could change.

    The other mystery? The Xbox One GPU cores are physically shorter than the PS4′s equivalents. I don’t mean the GPU block, which is obviously smaller — one GPU Compute Unit on the PS4 diagram, is 50 pixels wide, 395 pixels tall. On the Xbox One, each Compute Unit is 42 pixels wide, 347 pixels tall. It looks as though Microsoft may have picked a tighter arrangement for its GPU core, again possibly to save the maximum amount of space and make room for as much SRAM on die as possible.

    Speaking of SRAM, the arrangement of the Xbox One’s was a considerable puzzle when Microsoft unveiled the console architecture. According to the company, the Xbox One doesn’t really have a 32MB contiguous cache, but four 8MB cache blocks instead. There are two blocks of cache to the right of the GPU and a smaller block to the left. This smaller block is possibly used for cross-CPU communication.

    It’s hard to tell exactly how the Xbox One’s 47MB of claimed SRAM fit into the floor plan, however. We know that the CPUs in question contain a total of 512K of L1 and 4MB of L2. If the two blocks to the right are ESRAM, each block should be 16MB, for a total of 32MB of cache there. The GPU should contain 512K to 1.5MB of L2 (512K being standard for a GCN chip of this size, with more L2 if Microsoft choose to boost that capability), and about 224K of L1 in total.

    That leaves about 10MB of cache missing. If the SRAM block between the two CPUs is that large, it’s far more dense than the SRAM to the right of the GPU.

    Chipworks also tore into the Xbox One controller, but it’s not that interesting. It has an ultra-low power Freescale microcrontroller and a Cortex-M0+ core. A custom Microsoft WiFi chip handles communication with the mother ship. The chip count here is kept minimal to speed manufacturing and lower cost. A teardown of Kinect should be up and available in the not-too-distant future.

    After looking at both the Xbox One and PS4, I think we see companies arriving at the same point through rather different approaches. Both manufacturers chose architecture they felt would allow them to work most effectively. Microsoft invested more silicon in large, low latency caches, while Sony sank more money into raw bandwidth. As far as performance is concerned, this could well end up a tie; as the Xbox One should be able to access data more quickly, while the PS4 can stream sustained data far more effectively. Since game developers can leverage both of those features, the final result could be a wash.

    Both companies also picked designs that should be relatively easy to migrate to new process nodes. As 20nm technology comes online, we’ll probably see refreshes in 12-18 months. It won’t surprise me if the first SSD designs start to pop up then, too — there’s too much potential upside in a premium SKU with solid state storage for either company to ignore the possibility.
    Highlights:

    - A substantial sram cache in between the two CPU's, at a guess around 2.5 mb.
    - Jaguar cores appear identical except for some extra circuitry on the XBO
    - Shader cores appear shorter on the XBO
    Last edited by mynd; 11-27-2013 at 23:39.

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  3. #2
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    Should be in the V's thread.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    Should be in the V's thread.
    Its not really a reverse engineering of the PS4, but yeah I can see how it could fit in there as well.

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    This belongs here.
    Provided people stay on topic and don't bring in anything unrelated (or rather, don't do it civilly without snark).


    Lol at first I thought the labels were in Russian or something, then realised it was just backwards.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    They really get on my nerves about what does or doesn't belong here lol. It sounds so much like the 1960's lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] In the darkest abyss I still see you with my perfect sharigan young jedi!

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    Whocares.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

    If you don't care, please close the tab/window and move on. Posts like this don't bring anything to the discussion, thanks for your cooperation. - Ghost
    Last edited by Ghost; 11-28-2013 at 07:05.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captobvious75 View Post
    Whocares.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
    I do....


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    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    This belongs here.
    Provided people stay on topic and don't bring in anything unrelated (or rather, don't do it civilly without snark).
    yea while the article should be in here, it's going to probably get some sort of vs stuff. which i guess happens with every topic lol.

    Lol at first I thought the labels were in Russian or something, then realised it was just backwards.
    do this: take something written in english (all capitals), flip it and turn it the other way...and then look at that and look at the russian language, looks amazingly similar.

  10. #9
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    no dGPU?
    You can't be serious with the 30 megabyte signature... ~ Staff

    Maths is biased! It keeps telling me the PS4 is 50% more powerful than XboxOne!
    Great song, should have more views :'(

    SHIMAASAAAANIIII!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by victorijapoosp View Post
    no dGPU?
    LOL, I had forgotten about that,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captobvious75 View Post
    Whocares.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
    we do :/

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by victorijapoosp View Post
    no dGPU?
    Lol I was gonna say it but elected not to. On the mrxmedia site they're still trying to come up with ways that the die pic is wrong

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    Quote Originally Posted by on the rocks View Post
    Lol I was gonna say it but elected not to. On the mrxmedia site they're still trying to come up with ways that the die pic is wrong
    He still breathing huh?

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    He still breathing huh?
    You XRayed to strong, you can only see it with a half strength Xray, they swear! It's a vertical package!
    10 Billion Transistors.

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  17. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    You XRayed to strong, you can only see it with a half strength Xray, they swear! It's a vertical package!
    10 Billion Transistors.
    Are they gamma rays, maybe they should have used alpha rays.


  18. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    You XRayed to strong, you can only see it with a half strength Xray, they swear! It's a vertical package!
    10 Billion Transistors.
    ....There is some grade A crazy going on over at that blog...

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    Those two mystery units highlighted in red? One is the SSU (Secret Sauce Unit) and the other is the WJU (Wizard $#@! Unit)!

    I can't believe the author of the article even contemplated that those two redundant CUs on both the Xbox One and PS4 would ever be activated in the future. Their whole purpose was so that up to TWO CUs could fail and still qualify the chip to go on to installation in a production console. Out of millions of consoles made, some are bound to have 1 or 2 CUs that are in a failed non-functioning state. So having a software update later to use more would be pointless. You'd have games being able to take advantage of that extra computing power on some consoles (those with perfect chips or only 1 failed CU) and not others (ones with 2 failed CUs).
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 11-28-2013 at 19:32.

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  21. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Are they gamma rays, maybe they should have used alpha rays.

    Nope, the only rays worthy of it:


    BETA RAYS!
    Last edited by John Willaford; 11-28-2013 at 16:18.

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