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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    IT may be 10 times better than kinect 1, but it is still inferior when compared to a controller for ALL types of game.
    fixed that for you

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    Yeah my son has been talking in dr3 lol. He said its a nice little feature to have in there.




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    im just happy as hell that motion gaming hasn't become the norm, otherwise i would have to quit the hobby i love so much



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    Quote Originally Posted by JDizzleNO1 View Post
    im just happy as hell that motion gaming hasn't become the norm, otherwise i would have to quit the hobby i love so much
    I'm with you on that one.




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    the problem is definitely software but imo a bigger problem is to get the better developers to use this more or even better, make a game solely for it. i think even if kinect can be used partially in most blockbuster games, would be a huge win. but i don't know how MS is going to do it, because really it's up to the developers and so far i'm not seeing MS making that push...it's too early to tell what it will be later this generation but i'm not hearing much about the kinect in big titles. it doesn't seem to me that they're making a push.

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    I've said it before, the industry just isn't ready for Kinect only games. For over two decades games have becoming increasingly more complex and we went from having 2-6 buttons in the SNES/Megadrive days to about 16 in the last few gens. You can't then suddenly remove 16 inputs and hope to come up with a game that plays well unless it's a dance game. Kinect will probably have some great applications under the "better with Kinect" moniker, adding additional voice commands and basic gestures to augment the controller inputs.

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    I will be in my cold cold grave before I ever stand and game, flay my arms wildly at some imaginary target, or any of the bollocks ideas Kinect brings to the table. I've been against the whole Kinect concept since day one because it's aimed squarely at the casual, party gamer. Trying to now make it something for hardcore gamers is like taking a very large round peg and smashing it into a tiny square hole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    I will be in my cold cold grave before I ever stand and game, flay my arms wildly at some imaginary target, or any of the bollocks ideas Kinect brings to the table. I've been against the whole Kinect concept since day one because it's aimed squarely at the casual, party gamer. Trying to now make it something for hardcore gamers is like taking a very large round peg and smashing it into a tiny square hole.
    It really should have been designed separately for the Xbox One. I understand why Microsoft did it, but I just don't think it was the right choice. They skimped on certain things to balance the system out for basically a media center, centered around kinect and while It might sell, I don't think it will come close to even 40 million consoles sold within 4 years or so. It certainly won't top out the PS4 which a lot of hardcore gamers moved from Xbox right to the PS4 because of this factor. All in all, I believe the Xbox One will be treated just like a media center, meaning it won't come near the sales they want in the future and overall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    It really should have been designed separately for the Xbox One. I understand why Microsoft did it, but I just don't think it was the right choice. They skimped on certain things to balance the system out for basically a media center, centered around kinect and while It might sell, I don't think it will come close to even 40 million consoles sold within 4 years or so. It certainly won't top out the PS4 which a lot of hardcore gamers moved from Xbox right to the PS4 because of this factor. All in all, I believe the Xbox One will be treated just like a media center, meaning it won't come near the sales they want in the future and overall.
    Those are the chances you take when you branch out beyond simply gaming. I respect them for not playing it safe. Samsung creams Apple in world-wide sales, yet Apple still does well for itself. Even if Xbox One doesn't do 360 numbers, it can still be healthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Those are the chances you take when you branch out beyond simply gaming. I respect them for not playing it safe. Samsung creams Apple in world-wide sales, yet Apple still does well for itself. Even if Xbox One doesn't do 360 numbers, it can still be healthy.
    Bad comparison. Apple makes ton of money on through apps and music. Samsung makes the vast majority of its money on the phone itself. X1 can certainly be "healthy" but it has to do more than that in the eyes of the stockholders. Push comes to shove and the investors are going to want a more competitive X1 with or without the Kinect.




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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Those are the chances you take when you branch out beyond simply gaming. I respect them for not playing it safe. Samsung creams Apple in world-wide sales, yet Apple still does well for itself. Even if Xbox One doesn't do 360 numbers, it can still be healthy.
    not a good comparison at all dude.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Bad comparison. Apple makes ton of money on through apps and music. Samsung makes the vast majority of its money on the phone itself. X1 can certainly be "healthy" but it has to do more than that in the eyes of the stockholders. Push comes to shove and the investors are going to want a more competitive X1 with or without the Kinect.
    why not? MS will have TV + ads as an alternative streams of revenues.

    they really don't need to compete with Sony anymore to stay healthy. which is somewhat good for Sony because now they have all that playing field to play on...by themselves...so let's hope that the people still come in to watch the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Bad comparison. Apple makes ton of money on through apps and music. Samsung makes the vast majority of its money on the phone itself. X1 can certainly be "healthy" but it has to do more than that in the eyes of the stockholders. Push comes to shove and the investors are going to want a more competitive X1 with or without the Kinect.
    Actually not a bad comparison. Xbox One has apps and music too. Then there is the gaming royalties. The potential is there.

    BTW...Apple makes their big money on hardware through big profit margins. Samsung has much lower margins on their phones, but they make up for it in sheer volume of sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Actually not a bad comparison. Xbox One has apps and music too. Then there is the gaming royalties. The potential is there.

    BTW...Apple makes their big money on hardware through big profit margins. Samsung has much lower margins on their phones, but they make up for it in sheer volume of sales.
    well then your example doesn't hold up well. MS is not going to have large profit margins with its hardware. and i don't know what sort of money MS would be making with its apps but it's likely not going to be enough and Sony probably has more royalties in music than MS.

    both companies will have similar gaming royalties (per game) but less for MS if they don't sell as many consoles, also i don't think royalties alone will be good enough.

    the point of your earlier example was that MS would make up for its shortfalls with other things (because that's what Apple is good at)...none of those things would make up anything and i don't think they can just rely on those things with the plan they have moving forward (a plan with games not being the center of stage).

    they have other things in mind. how you're describing it to be, it would seem like they're going to curl up and die in a corner. expecting a good amount of royalties and not focusing on market share do not work well together. i still think it's the "services" they will be making money from. TV will always be there, ads are always associated with TV. Kinect (that can understand very specifically what you thought about an ad) is packaged with every Xbox. Get it?

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    Oh I didn't say Microsoft was getting big profit margins off hardware like Apple. That was merely a reference of the difference between Apple and Samsung.

    As for the music reference? Microsoft would get money off their streaming service. Same with apps and games. That was the similarity with Apple.

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    Right but so does Sony. From what I understood, your analogy meant that MS is going the route of Apple as far as their profits. Well, they are but not with those things necessarily. I don't see their plans for apps and music any better than Sony's.

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    Some things don't change.Expected from Microsoft's Kinect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AsterPhoenix View Post
    Some things don't change.Expected from Microsoft's Kinect.
    You mean, "expected from software developers"? Kinect can't make its own games.




  21. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Those are the chances you take when you branch out beyond simply gaming. I respect them for not playing it safe. Samsung creams Apple in world-wide sales, yet Apple still does well for itself. Even if Xbox One doesn't do 360 numbers, it can still be healthy.
    Playing it safe or not, they turned away a lot of their core gamers to create Xbox One as we see it now and in the future. Basically, if they want the Xbox One to be treated like a media device, then it won't get the sales they were expecting because all purpose media devices from one company won't sell 30 million units. Within those millions of units are other companies selling all that stuff. On top of that, if microsoft really wanted to push for the Xbox One to be media centric, they shouldn't put key media functions behind a paywall. This won't work out with how they planned it, it's just not going to happen.

    Many people were turned off by Kinect on the 360 and people knew the route they would take. While it may be a neat little toy to mess around with, it's certainly not worth packaging it in every box. Just because a company doesn't play it safe doesn't mean anything. In fact, that makes absolutely no sense. It's downright stupid for a company to create a game console and when people are adjusted to the Xbox being a game console they flip it around and decided to make it the center of your living room. But because of this, they are going to tone down the gaming power of the system to adjust for Kinect and TV. This type of game is what I expect from Kinect. Heck, even the playstation move is no different and the only fun game for that thing is Frisbee golf and Tumble. Those are the types of games where stuff like this shines. Kinect isn't a good feature for more of the core gaming experience. It's a wipe wash and basically outclassed itself.

    I expect more games where the focus is kinect will get low scores.
    Last edited by Demi_God; 12-04-2013 at 12:00.

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    do we honestly think (despite the technology in it) that motion gaming will ever be as accurate as an actual controller? i really don't think so. im not saying that their can't be great games for the kinect, but the complexities of human motion i think are too much for the technology at this stage.



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    It's motion controls for a type of entertainment that was designed specifically to use a controller.
    It will never be as reactive as we need.
    All this extra stuff that it can do is irrelevant if the tracking isn't 100% perfect, and I mean 100% perfect, works everytime and feels right.
    Until they achieve that, motion controlling games will NEVER work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    Playing it safe or not, they turned away a lot of their core gamers to create Xbox One as we see it now and in the future. Basically, if they want the Xbox One to be treated like a media device, then it won't get the sales they were expecting because all purpose media devices from one company won't sell 30 million units. Within those millions of units are other companies selling all that stuff. On top of that, if microsoft really wanted to push for the Xbox One to be media centric, they shouldn't put key media functions behind a paywall. This won't work out with how they planned it, it's just not going to happen.

    Many people were turned off by Kinect on the 360 and people knew the route they would take. While it may be a neat little toy to mess around with, it's certainly not worth packaging it in every box. Just because a company doesn't play it safe doesn't mean anything. In fact, that makes absolutely no sense. It's downright stupid for a company to create a game console and when people are adjusted to the Xbox being a game console they flip it around and decided to make it the center of your living room. But because of this, they are going to tone down the gaming power of the system to adjust for Kinect and TV. This type of game is what I expect from Kinect. Heck, even the playstation move is no different and the only fun game for that thing is Frisbee golf and Tumble. Those are the types of games where stuff like this shines. Kinect isn't a good feature for more of the core gaming experience. It's a wipe wash and basically outclassed itself.

    I expect more games where the focus is kinect will get low scores.
    I'd agree with you if MS had thrown in a 1.2GHz tri-core CPU and 2GB of RAM like the Wii U and didn't have more money and effort into game exclusives then they ever did in the past. But that's just not the case.

    See... people decided to concentrate on the One's "TV TV TV" debut and conveniently shrug off MS's "Games Games Games" E3 show. It was basically a two part debut. First half was the TV/Apps stuff (debut), the second half was the games stuff (E3).

    It's like a pretty woman having her hair out of place and people just staring at the hair. "But she has a wonderful face and body"..... (critic) "Bahhhhhhh... that hair. All I see is that hair".

    Just cuz the One doesn't have the same level of specs as the PS4, doesn't mean it's any less a hardcore games machine or a commitment to being so. Just like having a mid-level PC doesn't stop you from having a hardcore gaming experience. They will just be hardcore games on a less than hardcore specs machine. Just look at Counterstrike.

    I can at least see why MS would concentrate a little more on the TV stuff since the hardcore gaming aspect is a given. They are looking to bring in new people. As I have said before.... Ya don't throw an 8-core CPU with 8GB of RAM in your console if you are mainly about TV TV TV...oh and THEN games like it's an afterthought. That's too big of specs than is needed for a TV media box.

    I see this as PERCEPTION clearly trumping REALITY. Had MS used the debut to be GAMES GAMES GAMES and then told us about the TV stuff later, they wouldn't have this perception problem. It's a very good console with lots of good games here or on the way if you can get past the TV perception.

    Reminds me of actor Richard Gere's perception issue. Most people just want to talk about his "gerbil" rumor and look past the fact he is a good actor with a great body of work. For MS, some people just can't look past their debut.

    I'm not asking you to like the Xbox One. I merely asking that you look beyond the "TV" perception and see it objectively for what it really is...... a console that IS still concentrated on gaming. And acknowledge that they are at least taking the risk to bring in new customers to the table. The saying goes... "Nothing ventured, nothing gained".

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Actually not a bad comparison. Xbox One has apps and music too. Then there is the gaming royalties. The potential is there.

    BTW...Apple makes their big money on hardware through big profit margins. Samsung has much lower margins on their phones, but they make up for it in sheer volume of sales.
    You were comparing actual phone sales (not software/services) to console sales. That is the bad comparison. Samsung makes its money on hardware, MS (as Sufi pointed out) does not. Pointing out the difference between Apple and Samsung doesn't apply here. The phone market in general doesn't work at all as a comparison as your talking about a HUGE difference in the number of people who buy phones and the numbers for consoles. I mean we are talking about a scenario with phones where Apple sells a lot less devices, but actually makes more money than Samsung. X1 isn't going to have the revenue streams that phones do. So yeah.....bad comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    I'd agree with you if MS had thrown in a 1.2GHz tri-core CPU and 2GB of RAM like the Wii U and didn't have more money and effort into game exclusives then they ever did in the past. But that's just not the case.

    See... people decided to concentrate on the One's "TV TV TV" debut and conveniently shrug off MS's "Games Games Games" E3 show. It was basically a two part debut. First half was the TV/Apps stuff (debut), the second half was the games stuff (E3).

    It's like a pretty woman having her hair out of place and people just staring at the hair. "But she has a wonderful face and body"..... (critic) "Bahhhhhhh... that hair. All I see is that hair".

    Just cuz the One doesn't have the same level of specs as the PS4, doesn't mean it's any less a hardcore games machine or a commitment to being so. Just like having a mid-level PC doesn't stop you from having a hardcore gaming experience. They will just be hardcore games on a less than hardcore specs machine. Just look at Counterstrike.

    I can at least see why MS would concentrate a little more on the TV stuff since the hardcore gaming aspect is a given. They are looking to bring in new people. As I have said before.... Ya don't throw an 8-core CPU with 8GB of RAM in your console if you are mainly about TV TV TV...oh and THEN games like it's an afterthought. That's too big of specs than is needed for a TV media box.

    I see this as PERCEPTION clearly trumping REALITY. Had MS used the debut to be GAMES GAMES GAMES and then told us about the TV stuff later, they wouldn't have this perception problem. It's a very good console with lots of good games here or on the way if you can get past the TV perception.

    Reminds me of actor Richard Gere's perception issue. Most people just want to talk about his "gerbil" rumor and look past the fact he is a good actor with a great body of work. For MS, some people just can't look past their debut.

    I'm not asking you to like the Xbox One. I merely asking that you look beyond the "TV" perception and see it objectively for what it really is...... a console that IS still concentrated on gaming. And acknowledge that they are at least taking the risk to bring in new customers to the table. The saying goes... "Nothing ventured, nothing gained".
    The first debut...TV. The first commercial.....TV. Obviously, MS focused on games at E3 but that doesn't mean anything other than they knew who their audience was. MS is trying to move the X1 beyond a gaming device. Is the focus on games? No. Not really. That doesn't mean MS has abandoned games. I think they are still trying to expand on the consumers that were attracted to the Wii, but I don't know that those consumers really care about gaming anymore.
    Last edited by Christopher; 12-04-2013 at 19:52.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    You were comparing actual phone sales (not software/services) to console sales. That is the bad comparison. Samsung makes its money on hardware, MS (as Sufi pointed out) does not. Pointing out the difference between Apple and Samsung doesn't apply here. The phone market in general doesn't work at all as a comparison as your talking about a HUGE difference in the number of people who buy phones and the numbers for consoles. I mean we are talking about a scenario with phones where Apple sells a lot less devices, but actually makes more money than Samsung. X1 isn't going to have the revenue streams that phones do. So yeah.....bad comparison.



    The first debut...TV. The first commercial.....TV. Obviously, MS focused on games at E3 but that doesn't mean anything other than they knew who their audience was. MS is trying to move the X1 beyond a gaming device. Is the focus on games? No. Not really. That doesn't mean MS has abandoned games. I think they are still trying to expand on the consumers that were attracted to the Wii, but I don't know that those consumers really care about gaming anymore.
    You are missing my point. I was trying to say that just because Samsung sells more products doesn't mean a company like Apple that sells less product can't do very well. Just as if Sony sells more consoles, doesn't mean MS can't do very well with less consoles sold. The Xbox Vs. PS2 is a perfect example. PS2 killed Xbox in sheer console numbers. but Xbox killed PS2 in software attach rates.

    It's the equivalent of a ticket average in retail. I may have less customers, but I get a higher average amount of money out of each customer I do have.


    As for Microsoft's focus is not on games? I'd buy that notion if they in fact had a smaller commitment to exclusives and games than they did with the Xbox 360. That's just not the case. It's a bigger commitment in exclusives then Microsoft did with the launches of both Xbox and Xbox 360 COMBINED.

    That's what I mean by PERCEPTION rather than REALITY. Saying their focus isn't on gaming WHILE their commitment has actually gotten BIGGER than they had with the Xbox 360...... just doesn't make any FACTUAL sense. So while you may FEEL (PERCEPTION) they have lost focus on gaming, the FACTS (REALITY) say otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    You are missing my point. I was trying to say that just because Samsung sells more products doesn't mean a company like Apple that sells less product can't do very well. Just as if Sony sells more consoles, doesn't mean MS can't do very well with less consoles sold. The Xbox Vs. PS2 is a perfect example. PS2 killed Xbox in sheer console numbers. but Xbox killed PS2 in software attach rates.

    It's the equivalent of a ticket average in retail. I may have less customers, but I get a higher average amount of money out of each customer I do have.
    I'm not saying X1 can't do well. Just saying you are comparing vastly dissimilar markets.

    As for Microsoft's focus is not on games? I'd buy that notion if they in fact had a smaller commitment to exclusives and games than they did with the Xbox 360. That's just not the case. It's a bigger commitment in exclusives then Microsoft did with the launches of both Xbox and Xbox 360 COMBINED.

    That's what I mean by PERCEPTION rather than REALITY. Saying their focus isn't on gaming WHILE their commitment has actually gotten BIGGER than they had with the Xbox 360...... just doesn't make any FACTUAL sense. So while you may FEEL (PERCEPTION) they have lost focus on gaming, the FACTS (REALITY) say otherwise.
    MS has a bigger commitment to TV than they did with the Xbox or 360 COMBINED as well. In fact, the shift in focus to TV by far trumps their progress in exclusives in comparison. Not even close.

    "reality"
    Last edited by Christopher; 12-05-2013 at 02:45.




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