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  1. #1

    PS4 and wireless signal

    Hi

    I have been using a g wireless signal rather than the rather more modern n type for online gaming for some years now. My router is reasonably new (2012 although I have a 2013 version courtesy of my IP).

    I am on the top broadband speed for my area and live quite close (about 2 miles if even that) from my local exchange so my signal is quite good. Now that I have a PS4 would switching to a N signal make any difference to download speeds, online play etc (already fast with the PS4!!)? I have a Phat PS3 that I will probably still use online and it can only receive a G signal so if I switch I will lose out in a way. Anyone think its worse the sacrifice. Many thanks as always for any helpful advice and info provided.

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    You only need a single band 802.11 N router if your using a PS4 and PS3, unless you know if your notebooks are dual band, or your getting an XBoxOne which also has Dual Band wifi, then you can get a dual band 5.0ghz/2.4ghz and set the notebooks or possible xbox one to use 5.0ghz only unless it ends up not getting a good signal.
    By using the 2 different bands you use 2 different antenna and maximize your data speed.
    Using G/N mode on the router will allow the PS3 and PS4 to connect simultaneous if necessary, otherwise the router will just be ready for either all of the time. This is likely the router's default setting if you buy an N router.


    Either solution should double to triple your real world throughput, unless the router is in the same room with the systems, then... either keep what you have and/or grab some ethernet cables.

    Your G router is likely only pumping 3-15mb second to the system, depending on conditions and packet retransmission due to wireless packet malformation/loss.
    The N routers use 3 antenna with beamforming and signal resolution enhancement (sampling all 3 antenna for the same packet) to reduce packet loss and transmits at a higher rate, meaning the N router should get 12-45mb s of DATA to your system (Data and 'transmission rate/connection rate' are VERY different ideas, the connection rate is RAW, tells you nothing about packet loss).


    We can also discuss ways to run Ethernet over either the power lines in the house or MoCA which is Multimedia over CoAxial cables.
    Moca needs a coax by that device and otherwise i'm fairly certain you are using a power outlet

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    First Getting an 802.11n WiFi router isn't going to make you loose out on the PS3. An 802.11n WiFi router will be backwards compatible with .g and .b (maybe .a as well.)

    I have a $#@! ton of WiFi devices on my network (phones, tablets, PCs, Laptops, Printers, TiVo's, TVs, AV Receiver, Game Consoles, ...) I'd say about 1/3 of these only support up to 802.11g, a couple old items only 802.11b.

    802.11n may or may not buy you anything.

    What data rates does your broadband guarantee (also is it DSL or Cable - only DSL would make a difference with proximity and 2mi isn't good for DSL.)

    Also, what connection rate to the router is your PS3 getting where it's located on the 802.11g.

    If the connection rate to the router of your equipment exceeds your broadband's ability to deliver data by about 50% (to account for typical overhead and packet loss) or more, then it wouldn't be a major advantage to upgrade just to move to 802.11n for access to internet alone. There's other benefits such as transfer data between equipment within the household, but based on what you've communicated, I doubt that's a concern for you.

    If the latency on the 802.11g is good, and you've got sufficient data connection to your console to keep up with your broadband, then I'd not worry about it.
    Last edited by TAZ427; 12-12-2013 at 18:21.



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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    Your G router is likely only pumping 3-15mb second to the system, depending on conditions and packet retransmission due to wireless packet malformation/loss.
    The N routers use 3 antenna with beamforming and signal resolution enhancement (sampling all 3 antenna for the same packet) to reduce packet loss and transmits at a higher rate, meaning the N router should get 12-45mb s of DATA to your system (Data and 'transmission rate/connection rate' are VERY different ideas, the connection rate is RAW, tells you nothing about packet loss).
    I believe you really mean MB not mb. Those would be representative of mega byte not mega bit data rates. I'll agree there's some packet loss and there's the data overhead, but those numbers in mbs are way too low.

    Note that I've done tests w/ some of my 802.11g devices on my 25Mbps data service and achieved the full 25Mbps. I had a router connection rate of 48Mbps at the time.
    Last edited by TAZ427; 12-12-2013 at 19:17.



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    Your quibbling over capital and lower case letters. fine.
    Megabytes. Done.

    My numbers are for typical numbers i've experienced over years of installing and troubleshooting consumer router equipment and my own use at various locations.
    Congrats on having thin walls.
    Agreed, I never discussed service speed.
    If you get 25mb through on a 48mb connection your going through one thin wall or your house is made of paper with respect to a 2.4ghz signal, no gypsum board, thicker drywall, chicken wire mesh, etcetera, not an old home or the walls have all been ripped out and replaced if so.
    Set your equipment up in a 100+ year old home, a home with a real firewall in it's kitchen, a home with a soundproofed entertainment room in it, A room that the couple had custom built do that they can get wild as loud as they want and the kids won't know because they had their bedroom soundproofed, an old Church, Office building in converted Montgomery Wards buildings, etcetera and so forth.

    Typically, each room and floor cuts bandwith in half. It's a good rule of thumb, again, i'll have to ask these questiosn.

    Timewritter2003, What would you say the age of your abode is? Do you have drywall or something thicker that might cause more interference? Are you trying to get a signal in a room over a garage? Are you on the same floor as the router, if not, where are the sets of equipment at?

    Yes, I could/should ask those questions.

    JW>
    Last edited by John Willaford; 12-12-2013 at 18:51.

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    I love how there is an answer with the assumption that the PS4 is the only thing being connected to said router..... (or better yet the terribly general intro before we get to the nitty griity of it all)

    Otherwise Taz got you it appears

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    Your quibbling over capital and lower case letters. fine.
    Megabytes. Done.

    My numbers are for typical numbers i've experienced over years of installing and troubleshooting consumer router equipment and my own use at various locations.
    Congrats on having thin walls.
    Agreed, I never discussed service speed.
    If you get 25mb through on a 48mb connection your going through one thin wall or your house is made of paper with respect to a 2.4ghz signal, no gypsum board, thicker drywall, chicken wire mesh, etcetera, not an old home or the walls have all been ripped out and replaced if so.
    Set your equipment up in a 100+ year old home, a home with a real firewall in it's kitchen, a home with a soundproofed entertainment room in it, A room that the couple had custom built do that they can get wild as loud as they want and the kids won't know because they had their bedroom soundproofed, an old Church, Office building in converted Montgomery Wards buildings, etcetera and so forth.

    Typically, each room and floor cuts bandwith in half. It's a good rule of thumb, again, i'll have to ask these questiosn.

    Timewritter2003, What would you say the age of your abode is? Do you have drywall or something thicker that might cause more interference? Are you trying to get a signal in a room over a garage? Are you on the same floor as the router, if not, where are the sets of equipment at?

    Yes, I could/should ask those questions.

    JW>
    It's not quibbling as they mean different things, and I didn't want people to be confused. B is Byte (8 bits) and b is bit. In this case not using the correct case means two different things, I didn't even complain that you didn't use a capital M for Mega, or G for Giga, that would have been quibbling.

    I'll 100% agree with material used throughout the house will impact this, but also, Antenna Gain, Antenna Orientation, etc. will have an impact. This is why I suggested comparing his router data connection speed with his broadband service speed. Use a known factor if you have one, which he does



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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    It's not quibbling as they mean different things, and I didn't want people to be confused. B is Byte (8 bits) and b is bit. In this case not using the correct case means two different things, I didn't even complain that you didn't use a capital M for Mega, or G for Giga, that would have been quibbling.

    I'll 100% agree with material used throughout the house will impact this, but also, Antenna Gain, Antenna Orientation, etc. will have an impact. This is why I suggested comparing his router data connection speed with his broadband service speed. Use a known factor if you have one, which he does

    Gentlemen thank you so much for the extremely detailed replies. My knowledge doesnt run to the same level as your goodselves. I'll answer what I know now but I'll need to check a few things out and come back to you.

    My house was built circa 1950 or thereabouts. My router sits about roughly (and I mean roughly!!) about 21 or so feet away from my PS4 (the distance would include along a hall way and into my living room. The signal should only have to go through one supporting wall I reckon) (I have a Kindle Fire HD, a Kindle, a PS Vita, a PS3 , a PS4 a 2DS and 3DS and ACER laptop connected but I am most concerned with getting maximum speeds for the PS4). All devices are wireless connections as I have two crazy little Jack Russell dogs to contend with!! My connection is VDSL I think. It is fibre optic to the junction box near me then copper wire to the house. My top speed is supposed to be 72 to 80mb but my current speed is sitting at 69.8 according to my IP when I spoke to them on the phone tonight.

    I tried to switch from g to n during the summer but had a major problem with the Phat PS3 around WEP and WPS encryption so I had to set the router to a g signal only. What this has to do with the g or n signal is beyond me apart from stopping someone piggy backing onto your signal. Let me know if I can give you any more info!! Many thanks for any help you can provide.

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    That sounds about right for vDSL, those a great speeds. Most of the US DSL service is aDSL (sucks balls compared to vDSL.) AT&T U-verse uses vDSL but the coverage area sucks for U-verse.

    Anyway, yes, you'd definitely be able to take advantage of 802.11n.

    It sounds like you already have a 802.11n router, but you've set it up to use G only.

    1st There's absolute no reason why your encryption mode should matter between supporting 802.11n or not. I'd hazard to guess that you may have unintentionally set it to ONLY 802.11n instead of both N and G which is what you need to do.

    2nd You really need to change your encryption to be WPA2, WEP encryption is so easy to break it's not funny.

    To be honest I can't speak to what the used in the UK in the '50s for building material in the walls. In the US along a normal wall that would have been Lath and Plaster, and one wall with 20' difference wouldn't have had a whole lot of signal degradation. But that doesn't matter as even if you had perfect strength an 802.11g wouldn't be able to keep up with your data connection.

    What's the make and model of your router?

    PS: You may want to consider a 'powerline' solution to the PS3 & PS4 that plus a decent switch would feed both directly from the router with better performance.
    Last edited by TAZ427; 12-12-2013 at 22:15.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    It's not quibbling as they mean different things, and I didn't want people to be confused. B is Byte (8 bits) and b is bit. In this case not using the correct case means two different things, I didn't even complain that you didn't use a capital M for Mega, or G for Giga, that would have been quibbling.

    I'll 100% agree with material used throughout the house will impact this, but also, Antenna Gain, Antenna Orientation, etc. will have an impact. This is why I suggested comparing his router data connection speed with his broadband service speed. Use a known factor if you have one, which he does
    Fella, I doubt MOST PEOPLE asking the question would have spotted the techno jargon mismatch you decided to point out. If i was on stack overflow, yes, i'd probably watch my P's and Q's more, not to mention my semicolons.
    Here, not so much.

    END.

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    I have a dual band router that i've configured to send out the 2.4 ghz G signal as one access point and the N signal as another access point, and my PS4 won't even find the access point thats sending the N signal. Does it actually support N or is it just G?

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    Quote Originally Posted by timewriter2003 View Post
    Gentlemen thank you so much for the extremely detailed replies. My knowledge doesnt run to the same level as your goodselves. I'll answer what I know now but I'll need to check a few things out and come back to you.

    My house was built circa 1950 or thereabouts. My router sits about roughly (and I mean roughly!!) about 21 or so feet away from my PS4 (the distance would include along a hall way and into my living room. The signal should only have to go through one supporting wall I reckon) (I have a Kindle Fire HD, a Kindle, a PS Vita, a PS3 , a PS4 a 2DS and 3DS and ACER laptop connected but I am most concerned with getting maximum speeds for the PS4). All devices are wireless connections as I have two crazy little Jack Russell dogs to contend with!! My connection is VDSL I think. It is fibre optic to the junction box near me then copper wire to the house. My top speed is supposed to be 72 to 80mb but my current speed is sitting at 69.8 according to my IP when I spoke to them on the phone tonight.

    I tried to switch from g to n during the summer but had a major problem with the Phat PS3 around WEP and WPS encryption so I had to set the router to a g signal only. What this has to do with the g or n signal is beyond me apart from stopping someone piggy backing onto your signal. Let me know if I can give you any more info!! Many thanks for any help you can provide.
    That is some NICE speed.
    Yes, a beamforming N router should certainly make mincemeat out of that setup.

    Taz has it right, you have more than enough service speed to justify the upgrade.

    Do you have that N router you set to G mode? If so, please post the model and a pict if you can (consumer routers are notorious for carrying over model numbers across multiple years and designs, the WRT54G from Linksys was famous and infamous for that).

    Then we/I/someone can look up the instructions online and walk you through any troublespots, I only volunteer myself for such things.
    Yes, it seems you put it in G mode due to the PS3 Fat having some issue? That is strange. Definitely need to see this router and have you discover which firmware your running if it persists.

    You should be able to put it in shared N/G mode and use WPA 2 encryption, same key for N and G clients.
    Yes, Taz is right, WEP can be broken with a slow Android cellphone these days.

    I used to use 3 Monster Power networking power filters and 2 Netgear 200 powerline ethernet boxes in my house to distribute everything, works great. Wifi for the tablets and notebook. I've moved and am still unpacking, the PS4 was kind of finicky with the Wireless comcast provided, but, since 1.51 came out that cleared up.
    Last edited by John Willaford; 12-12-2013 at 23:52.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyShady View Post
    I have a dual band router that i've configured to send out the 2.4 ghz G signal as one access point and the N signal as another access point, and my PS4 won't even find the access point thats sending the N signal. Does it actually support N or is it just G?
    Double check that N isn't set to 5.0ghz only.
    PS4 supports 2.4ghz only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    Fella, I doubt MOST PEOPLE asking the question would have spotted the techno jargon mismatch you decided to point out. If i was on stack overflow, yes, i'd probably watch my P's and Q's more, not to mention my semicolons.
    Here, not so much.

    END.
    Have to agree with TAZ. Anyone with some computer know-how worth his salt should differentiate between lower and higher case b's, or at the very least spell out at least one of them to avoid confusion.





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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    Double check that N isn't set to 5.0ghz only.
    PS4 supports 2.4ghz only.
    Awesome thanks fix it now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by K2D View Post
    Have to agree with TAZ. Anyone with some computer know-how worth his salt should differentiate between lower and higher case b's, or at the very least spell out at least one of them to avoid confusion.
    Again, congrats to all of you who are wide awake and willing to $#@! with people offering advice, your real class. I used both without any uppercase and to a presumably non technical person they are free to assume, and, said person also perhaps would not know... i used it consistently in lower case, fine. I figure they will see apples to apples, or should that be Apples to Apples?

    NO, i'm not currently writing a technical manual and as I wrote it out, instead of being at work dialy, i'm home taking care of my mother and her difficulties from the Vietnam War having ingested lots of Agent Orange/DDT which proved not so good for her final years of retirement and comfort, which have become disability and pain and daily visits from nurses. So, take your MB, mb, and Mbps and both of you slide on them repeatedly until your prostates experience lots of pleasure, on me.

    Your Welcome!
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    Regarding network and the PS4, though slightly off topic.
    I'm wired from the modem downstairs, a long Ethernet cable from the living room, up the hall into my room, behind the wardrobe and into my PS4.
    All the way tucked tightly against the wall, so its not particularly messy. However it is noticeable.
    Due to the fact the walls are quite thick, and my room and the living room containing the modem are COMPLETE opposite ends of the house apart from one another, the wireless reception in my room isn't brilliant.
    (4 out of 5 bars wireless for laptop, 2 out of 3 bars for my iPhone)
    Though for my PS3 the signal strength was around 67% and it was extremely noticeable.

    Would it be worth buying one of those ring network things? Do they actually work?
    For those struggling to understand what I'm referring to, its a device that goes into a plug socket, you have two, one next to the modem and one in my room, apparently boosting signal strength.
    I've seen one on Amazon but I'm not sure whether I should actually go for it if the improvements are minor, the setup I have works well enough, I'm just thinking in terms of practicability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LM-93 View Post
    Regarding network and the PS4, though slightly off topic.
    I'm wired from the modem downstairs, a long Ethernet cable from the living room, up the hall into my room, behind the wardrobe and into my PS4.
    All the way tucked tightly against the wall, so its not particularly messy. However it is noticeable.
    Due to the fact the walls are quite thick, and my room and the living room containing the modem are COMPLETE opposite ends of the house apart from one another, the wireless reception in my room isn't brilliant.
    (4 out of 5 bars wireless for laptop, 2 out of 3 bars for my iPhone)
    Though for my PS3 the signal strength was around 67% and it was extremely noticeable.

    Would it be worth buying one of those ring network things? Do they actually work?
    For those struggling to understand what I'm referring to, its a device that goes into a plug socket, you have two, one next to the modem and one in my room, apparently boosting signal strength.
    I've seen one on Amazon but I'm not sure whether I should actually go for it if the improvements are minor, the setup I have works well enough, I'm just thinking in terms of practicability.
    Ethernet home plugs

    You need 2 power sockets. .one next to the router. One next to ps4 and 2 Ethernet cables.

    Basically creates a wired connection without cables. I used them for years up until recently due to thick walls snd worked a treat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LM-93 View Post
    Regarding network and the PS4, though slightly off topic.
    I'm wired from the modem downstairs, a long Ethernet cable from the living room, up the hall into my room, behind the wardrobe and into my PS4.
    All the way tucked tightly against the wall, so its not particularly messy. However it is noticeable.
    Due to the fact the walls are quite thick, and my room and the living room containing the modem are COMPLETE opposite ends of the house apart from one another, the wireless reception in my room isn't brilliant.
    (4 out of 5 bars wireless for laptop, 2 out of 3 bars for my iPhone)
    Though for my PS3 the signal strength was around 67% and it was extremely noticeable.

    Would it be worth buying one of those ring network things? Do they actually work?
    For those struggling to understand what I'm referring to, its a device that goes into a plug socket, you have two, one next to the modem and one in my room, apparently boosting signal strength.
    I've seen one on Amazon but I'm not sure whether I should actually go for it if the improvements are minor, the setup I have works well enough, I'm just thinking in terms of practicability.
    It sounds like your talking about Ethernet over Powerline aka HomePlug AV adapters.
    is the 'plug' your power socket?

    I know of some where it's HomePlug AV Wireless extender that does HomePlug AV to the wall with ethernet from the router and then a stand alone WiFi only box that plugs into a socket where you want to strengthen your signal.

    If you want to generally increase the WiFi coverage in your house in general, you can get a Wireless Repeating Bridge... Most Wireless Access Points and many Routers can be reconfigured to bridge back to the main router wirelessly. It is another WiFi box that sits somewhere else that talks wirelessly to the main Router. It generally sits somewhere that it still has a strong signal and you connect to it from further away than you could on the router or to get a stronger signal from some given location.

    For gaming though, nothing is going to touch that Ethernet cable you ran. I personally would just make it less conspicuous somehow.... buy some cable channel to hid it in and slide it under the carpet if possible?

    Do you have a 4pt switch to share the ethernet among the PS3 and PS4, maybe the TV if it's a SmartTV and any networked receiver if you have one?
    Last edited by John Willaford; 12-13-2013 at 01:01.

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    I ran my Ethernet along the outside wall in conduit and when BT installed the VDSL modem I ran an ethernet along the stringer board of the stair case.
    A cable stapler will be a good idea, makes the job quick and easy and no need to space the staples exactly because they are not noticeable, make sure the ethernet a white or grey cable so it blends in better.
    That is if you decide to go with wires that is.


    You can see the PC in the left of the window (its not used any more, so I plugged the cable into Sky box instead) it goes to the top right (where I am sat now typing this) through the wall and stapled to the skirting board and into the router at my feet.

    Last edited by keefy; 12-13-2013 at 01:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    Again, congrats to all of you who are wide awake and willing to $#@! with people offering advice, your real class. I used both without any uppercase and to a presumably non technical person they are free to assume, and, said person also perhaps would not know... i used it consistently in lower case, fine. I figure they will see apples to apples, or should that be Apples to Apples?

    NO, i'm not currently writing a technical manual and as I wrote it out, instead of being at work dialy, i'm home taking care of my mother and her difficulties from the Vietnam War having ingested lots of Agent Orange/DDT which proved not so good for her final years of retirement and comfort, which have become disability and pain and daily visits from nurses. So, take your MB, mb, and Mbps and both of you slide on them repeatedly until your prostates experience lots of pleasure, on me.

    Your Welcome!
    END : FIN: FINALE'
    First I wasn't $#@!ing with anyone, I wanted to make sure it was clear. I've seen you use lower case b when meaning B multiple times on the forum and I've held my tongue until now. I never $#@!ed about other incorrect cases on items as I'll let that slide as people can infer what you intended. However, with B vs b you can't infer what the hell the person meant. Plan and simple.

    And while I sympathize with your mother, I don't see how you bringing it up in this discussion makes any sense.

    The fact is that someone w/o a lot of technical background, but having enough to know the difference between B and b may have misunderstood your post. I wanted to make sure it was clear.

    The world isn't against you. I'm not against you. I'm for helping out the OP and making sure things are understood and not unintentionally confused. If you can't see that, then that's not really my problem.



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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ427 View Post
    First I wasn't $#@!ing with anyone, I wanted to make sure it was clear. I've seen you use lower case b when meaning B multiple times on the forum and I've held my tongue until now. I never $#@!ed about other incorrect cases on items as I'll let that slide as people can infer what you intended. However, with B vs b you can't infer what the hell the person meant. Plan and simple.

    And while I sympathize with your mother, I don't see how you bringing it up in this discussion makes any sense.

    The fact is that someone w/o a lot of technical background, but having enough to know the difference between B and b may have misunderstood your post. I wanted to make sure it was clear.

    The world isn't against you. I'm not against you. I'm for helping out the OP and making sure things are understood and not unintentionally confused. If you can't see that, then that's not really my problem.
    It's called sleep deprivation and being up at all odd hours, that's what.
    Again, this isn't StackOverflow or other technical site, so, if I let my abbreviations slip, i really don't care.
    I also don't expect to be bothered for it.
    The world is fine, it's people who've been told to drop something who have to keep posting about it that are annoying as $#@!.

  25. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    It's called sleep deprivation and being up at all odd hours, that's what.
    Again, this isn't StackOverflow or other technical site, so, if I let my abbreviations slip, i really don't care.
    I also don't expect to be bothered for it.
    The world is fine, it's people who've been told to drop something who have to keep posting about it that are annoying as $#@!.
    Wasn't my intention to bust your nut about it. Just my 2 cents. Hope we're cool.. And sorry to hear about your sleep deprivation





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    Glad I noticed this thread. Im after some advise please. Heres whats been going on. I was using home plugs without any trouble until recently getting top speed 23mbps download and 1.2mbps upload. We got new christmas tree lights and found out these were causing REIN (repetitive electrical Impulse Noise) and transferred that noise into the modem and caused by DLM to act up and cut my upload speed in half. So I had to stop using the home plugs and have switched to wifi for ps4. I have to wait 2 weeks for it to improve.

    Anyway, on wifi the most I can seem to get is 15mb download. On same wifi using laptop I get 21mb. I have tried the various channels, currently 4 seems best. Tried wireless g only mode and its on mixed b/g/n and its just the same. The speed of wifi on ps4 seems better than ps3 overall, and 15 mbps I can live with, but would like to get a little better if I could. Anyone know if thats possible? heres a pic of my wireless settings on router.



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    Last edited by DaveNI1979; 12-13-2013 at 17:07.

  27. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by timewriter2003 View Post
    Hi

    I have been using a g wireless signal rather than the rather more modern n type for online gaming for some years now. My router is reasonably new (2012 although I have a 2013 version courtesy of my IP).

    I am on the top broadband speed for my area and live quite close (about 2 miles if even that) from my local exchange so my signal is quite good. Now that I have a PS4 would switching to a N signal make any difference to download speeds, online play etc (already fast with the PS4!!)? I have a Phat PS3 that I will probably still use online and it can only receive a G signal so if I switch I will lose out in a way. Anyone think its worse the sacrifice. Many thanks as always for any helpful advice and info provided.
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyShady View Post
    I have a dual band router that i've configured to send out the 2.4 ghz G signal as one access point and the N signal as another access point, and my PS4 won't even find the access point thats sending the N signal. Does it actually support N or is it just G?

    Also, to both of you, you can also play with what channel your equipment is at.

    I've seen reception improve as much as 30% by moving around form channels 1-11. There are various non WiFi and non Bluetooth items which interfere with 2.4GHz spectrum all over the place.

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