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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Meh. Care-full use of SPU's was a far bigger issue. People worry about 32 mb, try 256kb.
    was it? let's see: PS3 couldn't achieve full potential without the use of SPUs as this was the only way the system part of RAM could be utilized. Also SPUs could offload some of the GPU tasks (lol Cell was just RSX's $#@!, that's all it was good for).

    Xbox 1 cannot achieve full potential without the use of ESRAM as this is the only way the RAM max bandwidth can somewhat come close to PS4's, in theory.

    Yeah, you're right Does not look like a disaster to me.

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    I think "where do I put this" is far less complicated than SPU usage, but yes, both were are needed to maximize the full potential of their respective systems.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I think "where do I put this" is far less complicated than SPU usage, but yes, both were are needed to maximize the full potential of their respective systems.
    yes, true, I'm not denying at all that PS3 was far more complicated.

    my point is that relatively, the resources available to X1 (compared to the PS3 vs 360) is about the same this generation, actually worse i'd say.

    e.g. you look at the ESRAM limitation, significantly less GPU flops, significant resource reservation by the OS AND lack of specialized chips helping the X1 (in fact, isn't it a rumor that the OS actually takes up a core or two?)...i mean, it's very easy to see that X1 is going to be far more clipped than PS3 ever was agains the 360.

    you see, what PS3 lacked in design and implementation, it gained a fair amount in its raw power so while the difference was still there, it wasn't as big as what we're seeing so far this generation.

    X1 will never have the ability to one up or be par with the PS4 (except like I've mentioned, games that just didn't target something that went beyond what the X1 can handle).

    We will truly see the parity once the big hitters come around in the next couple of years, and then that climax will likely appear every 2-3 years.

    It is going to be very important for MS to tweak their OSes and free up some resources for the games. they can't have it all, they have to decide which way they want to go.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    yes, true, I'm not denying at all that PS3 was far more complicated.

    my point is that relatively, the resources available to X1 (compared to the PS3 vs 360) is about the same this generation, actually worse i'd say.

    e.g. you look at the ESRAM limitation, significantly less GPU flops, significant resource reservation by the OS AND lack of specialized chips helping the X1 (in fact, isn't it a rumor that the OS actually takes up a core or two?)...i mean, it's very easy to see that X1 is going to be far more clipped than PS3 ever was agains the 360.
    The core reservation is pretty much the same on both next gen consoles, what they real kicker is, is the 2 layers of o/s you have to walk thorough, and the throttling of the system by the hyper-v. Stealing 10% of you resource to run another o/s just plain sucks, regardless.
    you see, what PS3 lacked in design and implementation, it gained a fair amount in its raw power so while the difference was still there, it wasn't as big as what we're seeing so far this generation.

    X1 will never have the ability to one up or be par with the PS4 (except like I've mentioned, games that just didn't target something that went beyond what the X1 can handle).
    Oh, I wouldn't say that, scrap the whole dual o/s thing and you'd go a long way to getting there.
    We will truly see the parity once the big hitters come around in the next couple of years, and then that climax will likely appear every 2-3 years.

    It is going to be very important for MS to tweak their OSes and free up some resources for the games. they can't have it all, they have to decide which way they want to go.
    Amen.

    We still wont see games with huge graphical differences beyond resolution, both games will feature the same textures and models, the difference will be either resolution/frame-rate or a few extra "special" effects.
    The difference is not pronounced in terms of pushing polys on screen or texture differences, because they both can handle that just fine, it the raw pixel processing is where the PS4 get a boost.

    That wont translate into remarkable better looking games in terms of a clearly different looking game, rather the clarity and effects implemented.
    We aren't going to see half poly count models or half size textures is what I mean.
    Last edited by mynd; 12-24-2013 at 00:17.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    The core reservation is pretty much the same on both next gen consoles, what they real kicker is, is the 2 layers of o/s you have to walk thorough, and the throttling of the system by the hyper-v. Stealing 10% of you resource to run another o/s just plain sucks, regardless.
    if you mean the OS reservation of the RAM, yeah, i'm not happy about the big reservation but it's a compromise and i can deal with it. in some ways, i do want the fast and streamlined OS but i also there to be as much RAM as possible. i think if they had gone with a 1GB OS, we weren't going to see anything much better than the PS3's OS. i'm somewhat torn between the opportunity cost there. though i do like the recording feature and the sharing. ever since the introduction, there have been countless times where i thought ot myself, "wow, i wish i had that recorded because it's something you can't ever plan out."

    Oh, I wouldn't say that, scrap the whole dual o/s thing and you'd go a long way to getting there.
    they would drop kinect before they did that. the TV feature has to be connected to the Windows side of things.

    Amen.

    We still wont see games with huge graphical differences beyond resolution, both games will feature the same textures and models, the difference will be either resolution/frame-rate or a few extra "special" effects.
    The difference is not pronounced in terms of pushing polys on screen or texture differences, because they both can handle that just fine, it the raw pixel processing is where the PS4 get a boost.

    That wont translate into remarkable better looking games in terms of a clearly different looking game, rather the clarity and effects implemented.
    We aren't going to see half poly count models or half size textures is what I mean.
    yeah, we're not talking about PS4 vs Wii U. there won't be much difference in texture quality or polys but i feel like there's a lot more effects that enhance the visual quality and i feel that in that respect, we will see differences and i wouldn't be completely surprised if the differences are fairly noticeable in certain games. i guess it just all depends on what the target is and how well the developer pushes the consoles.

    however, ND/QD/PD are definitely going to truly show what the console is capable of. sadly, X1 likely won't have a flagship developer that's willing to push the hardware to its limits so on top of being lesser in power, it will see this issue just like it did previously.

    i think the difference between PS3 and 360 wouldn't be so noticeable if 360 had the 1st party dedication that PS3 did. you can tell because 360 easily held off the PS3 for a good number of years and still held off in multiplats for the most part. the 360 definitely had more (easily) available resources but not more overall.

    but going back, yeah none of the 360 devs came off to me like they really wanted to (or were in the position to) really push the system. bungie was already tired of Halo (i'm sure since halo 2) and Halo has never been made for the Xbox consoles from the ground up, Alan Wake dev wasn't exclusively 360 until later (they're also an original PC dev), Mass Effect again was not specifically designed for the 360, Turn 10 are good but they don't tend to push things as their competitor, Epic...is a multiplat dev and while they did a great job with the 360, they didn't exactly create an engine from the ground up for the 360 (UE3) and so they're cutting themselves short there.

    what else is there? I don't think much will change this generation. bottom line is that i think we're going to see a bigger difference we saw last generation. due to the ease and available resources on the PS4 vs the X1.

    EDIT: I take it back, i give remedy benefit of the doubt this time around as i think their new game might just be designed for the X1 from the ground up. i'm not sure though but i haven't heard of a PC version and it's not worth axing the possibilities they could have by making it exclusive to X1, for just a few hundred thousand PC media sales.
    Last edited by Omar; 12-24-2013 at 01:13.

  6. #31
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    double post.
    Last edited by Omar; 12-24-2013 at 01:12.

  7. #32
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    Project Car Potentially Weaker Graphics on Xbox One

    http://gamingbolt.com/project-cars-i...-all-new-level
    Ravi Sinha: We have spoken with a few developers in the past regarding the Xbox One’s eSRAM. Some say it is a perfect solution for storing zbuffer and shadow maps. What are your thoughts on the same? Do you think it possesses any sort of advantage over the unified memory found on the PlayStation 4?

    Andy Tudor: Our engine uses a light pre-pass style rendering approach and after experimenting with a number of different variations we found it was more efficient to use eSRAM to hold the deferred render targets. Careful use of eSRAM like this for the various render stages mitigates some of the advantage that PS4 has with its faster unified GDDR5 memory.
    Fact that it only "mitigates" is worrisome. We are only looking at this from Ram side too. He doesn't particularly mention how to reduce the gap on GPU side.

    Another important thing to mention is that it seems like even when esram is fully utilized way MS and others say it should, it still falls short of GDDR5 from what the dev have mentioned. That is just Ram side alone. You still have GPU differentials. Some were hoping that esram would beat GDDR5 enough to make up for GPU side, but that does not seem to be the case.

    Good news is though they are aiming 1080P/60fps. But from what he is saying, it sound like there is a sort of a graphical gap between versions.

    What is your guys take on this?

  8. #33
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    Already posted a while back

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  9. #34
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    my first thought was, potentially weaker graphics than what, 360?
    turns out to be another of those endless PS4 v Xbox comparisons. quite sad.

    should be in the V's section.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    my first thought was, potentially weaker graphics than what, 360?
    turns out to be another of those endless PS4 v Xbox comparisons. quite sad.

    should be in the V's section.
    I would agree if there was more to it. There is nothing to show but words. And most of it is about the Xbox One and why it may suffer in the graphics. I would like to see some comparison pictures or video.

  11. #36
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    Somehow I doubt there will be any obvious differences if any at all.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 01-16-2014 at 20:24.

  12. #37
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    Since this is a car thread.
    The PS4 is a Mustang v8 5.0lt. (a Shelby might have been a dedicated GPU)
    The XBO is a Mustang Stock 6cyl 3.7lt.

    They just are never going to be the same, but, you can keep telling people it's better if they don't look to close i guess.
    You can buy a fake badge, dress it up real nice, add expensive add ons and slap an eSRAM turbo on the hood if you wanted, but, it's not going to make things much better against the V8, since its 300hp vs 400hp and better parts, filters, etc feeding the engine.

    HOWEVER, as I've stated in the past, where there are very little differences in the terrain, and lots of texture reuse on geometry, ... we'll see. Forza doesn't look nearly as good as Drive Club (keep denying), but, the sports games are close to even otherwise due to alot the overhead in other games not being there. This is supposed to be some uuber game though, so, there maybe too much texture data to deal with to keep it at 1080 on XBO. Heck, if it's badass enough, it'll give PS4 a rough time too,if it's render target were say 60fps on a current gen high end card , but, that's why you fine tune things.
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  14. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    Since this is a car thread. The PS4 is a Mustang v8 5.0lt. (a Shelby might have been a dedicated GPU) The XBO is a Mustang Stock 6cyl 3.7lt. They just are never going to be the same, but, you can keep telling people it's better if they don't look to close i guess. You can buy a fake badge, dress it up real nice, add expensive add ons and slap an eSRAM turbo on the hood if you wanted, but, it's not going to make things much better against the V8, since its 300hp vs 400hp and better parts, filters, etc feeding the engine. HOWEVER, as I've stated in the past, where there are very little differences in the terrain, and lots of texture reuse on geometry, ... we'll see. Forza doesn't look nearly as good as Drive Club (keep denying), but, the sports games are close to even otherwise due to alot the overhead in other games not being there. This is supposed to be some uuber game though, so, there maybe too much texture data to deal with to keep it at 1080 on XBO. Heck, if it's badass enough, it'll give PS4 a rough time too,if it's render target were say 60fps on a current gen high end card , but, that's why you fine tune things.
    Good points. You'll get no argument from me. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    Since this is a car thread.
    The PS4 is a Mustang v8 5.0lt. (a Shelby might have been a dedicated GPU)
    The XBO is a Mustang Stock 6cyl 3.7lt.

    They just are never going to be the same, but, you can keep telling people it's better if they don't look to close i guess.
    You can buy a fake badge, dress it up real nice, add expensive add ons and slap an eSRAM turbo on the hood if you wanted, but, it's not going to make things much better against the V8, since its 300hp vs 400hp and better parts, filters, etc feeding the engine.

    HOWEVER, as I've stated in the past, where there are very little differences in the terrain, and lots of texture reuse on geometry, ... we'll see. Forza doesn't look nearly as good as Drive Club (keep denying), but, the sports games are close to even otherwise due to alot the overhead in other games not being there. This is supposed to be some uuber game though, so, there maybe too much texture data to deal with to keep it at 1080 on XBO. Heck, if it's badass enough, it'll give PS4 a rough time too,if it's render target were say 60fps on a current gen high end card , but, that's why you fine tune things.
    I do not necessarily agree with your analogy. To summarize your analogy, PS4 better horsepower with weaker parts and Xbox One weaker horsepower with stronger parts.

    If I were to translate what you have said, it would be PS4 better GPU, but weaker ram and Xbox weaker ram, better ram.

    This would not be true at all. PS4 currently have better GPU with better ram(GDDR5 vs esram+DDR3). The dev is talking precisely this. He is not even talking about GPU gap. He is just talking about how PS4 holds advantage on ram alone or to your translation "better parts, filters etc feeding engine" are better on PS4 on top of the stronger horsepower.

    EDIT . Nvm. I think I may have misread your post.

    Regardless, I am just looking to see if developers are really going to take advantage of the gap or not. 3rd party gaming is huge aspect of PS4 still.
    Last edited by AttackTitan; 01-17-2014 at 01:07.

  16. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    Already posted a while back

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    I believe it was posted in Jan 10th. Could you please let me know where?

  17. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    I believe it was posted in Jan 10th. Could you please let me know where?
    Sorry it was on gaf...this is what happens when you double dip

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  18. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    Sorry it was on gaf...this is what happens when you double dip

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    No, the part about ram was posted here in the versus section.

    http://www.psu.com/forums/showthread...mory-Advantage
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 01-17-2014 at 02:16.

  19. #43
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