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    Project CARS Uses Xbox One eSRAM, Mitigates Some of PS4s Unified Memory Advantage.

    Project CARS is one of the most impressive looking racing games out there. If you haven’t seen some of the gameplay trailers out there, then we strongly recommend checking them out. Slightly Mad Studios, the development studio behind this visual splendor is bringing the game to Steam OS, Wii U, PlayStation 4, Xbox One and PC.

    We recently got in touch with the creative director of the game, Andy Tudor to ask about his thoughts on the Xbox One’s eSRAM. There has been a lot of confusion regarding its potential and whether it has any sort of an advantage compared to the PlayStation 4′s unified memory.

    Andy explained that they are currently using the eSRAM for storing deferred render targets. [It is called deferred since there is no shading performed during the first pass of the vertex and pixel shaders, instead shading is "deferred" until a second pass. Read all about it here]

    “Our engine uses a light pre-pass style rendering approach and after experimenting with a number of different variations we found it was more efficient to use eSRAM to hold the deferred render targets. Careful use of eSRAM like this for the various render stages mitigates some of the advantage that PS4 has with its faster unified GDDR5 memory,” he said to GamingBolt.

    Project CARS was originally slated to release for the Xbox 360 and PS3. We asked Andy about the desire to bring the game to PS4 and Xbox One users, especially since the install base will still be relatively young by late 2014. He revealed that the sharing feature and the dwindling retail market as one of the reasons of bringing the gorgeous looking game on next gen consoles.

    “There were a number of factors that influenced the move… firstly the power of the next-gen consoles allows the game to be showcased as it was ‘meant it to be seen’, the pipeline and architecture of the new machines makes the development process easier, we see the sharing features on both consoles as being extremely engaging for players, the ability to self-publish is appealing, retail space for last-gen games will slowly dwindle over the next year, and also given our timeline for launch there’ll be a better balance of the number of people out there in the mindset for next-gen gaming compared to those still playing their existing consoles. So overall there were a number of contributing arguments that indicated it was the right move to make,” he explained.

    http://gamingbolt.com/project-cars-uses-xbox-one-esram-for-deferred-render-targets-careful-us

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    Read the entire thing, just to throw that out there. It mitigates some but that some is unkown. very vague to the point it really isn't putting a plus on the Xbox One side of things and the conclusion is that it's helping out DDR3 which is what it's suppose to do. If people think that the ESRAM is some magical graphical advantage for the Xbox One, you are sorely mistaken. Performance wise, it will help DDR3 and some tasks that will work well with ESRAM. I just don't think it was worth it. Don't get me wrong, the fact they used DDR3 and ESRAM, that part was worth it, the Xbox one needs that little extra boost but other than that. very meh.
    Last edited by Demi_God; 12-15-2013 at 18:48.

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    Old news for those that payed attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    Read the entire thing, just to throw that out there. It mitigates some but that some is unkown. very vague to the point it really isn't putting a plus on the Xbox One side of things and the conclusion is that it's helping out DDR3 which is what it's suppose to do. If people think that the ESRAM is some magical graphical advantage for the Xbox One, you are sorely mistaken. Performance wise, it will help DDR3 and some tasks that will work well with ESRAM. I just don't think it was worth it. Don't get me wrong, the fact they used DDR3 and ESRAM, that part was worth it, the Xbox one needs that little extra boost but other than that. very meh.
    Yep, mitigates SOME so obviously not all. And isnt it DDR4 that Xbone uses not DDR3?

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    DDR3 Crow.

    Basically the ESRAM does its job of trying to cover for the shortcomings of the memory set up in the Xbox One, but isn't exactly as optimal as having one giant large pool of fast memory.


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    Pretty sure all launch titles for the one used esram to mitigate some of ps4's advantages

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    Pretty sure all launch titles for the one used esram to mitigate some of ps4's advantages

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    They had no choice. If they hadn't we'd be seeing some games that are just atrociously bottle necked, there's no way they could really scrape by with just the bandwidth from the DDR3 memory.

    Every Xbox One title uses the Esram. Efficiently? Most probably not, it's still early yet.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    DDR3 Crow. Basically the ESRAM does its job of trying to cover for the shortcomings of the memory set up in the Xbox One, but isn't exactly as optimal as having one giant large pool of fast memory.
    Wow I didnt know that. Thanks for the info.

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    DDR3 is quicker than GDDR5, but every other sector has PS4 ahead.
    Don't go expecing a vome from behind graphical advantage, both system are quite close in many ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickice View Post
    DDR3 is quicker than GDDR5...
    Yeah....Gonna need a bit more info there. Quicker in what way are you claiming?



    In relation to the article, Thats exactly what the eSRAM should/needs to be used for. The more important information that is missing is how many render targets there are and at what resolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickice View Post
    DDR3 is quicker than GDDR5,
    are you serious?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    are you serious?
    GDDR5 provides faster data transfer, but DDR3 provides faster latency is what I meant. Which is the only advantage Xbox One has, ES ram doesn't count.
    Last edited by mickice; 12-16-2013 at 13:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Yep, mitigates SOME so obviously not all. And isnt it DDR4 that Xbone uses not DDR3?
    MisterCrow , how's the Rum & Nog?
    Nah,it's always been DDR3.

    Quote Originally Posted by mickice View Post
    GDDR5 provides faster data transfer, but DDR3 provides faster latency is what I meant. Which is the only advantage Xbox One has, ES ram doesn't count.

    GDDR5 latency are actually pretty low. DDR3 latency was trash compared to DDR2, etc... it's the nature of the signaling.
    They are both about equal footing given clock speed, and the effective clock on GDDR5 is 5.5GHz on PS4, so i'll take it.
    Last edited by John Willaford; 12-16-2013 at 15:28.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Willaford View Post
    MisterCrow , how's the Rum & Nog? Nah,it's always been DDR3. GDDR5 latency are actually pretty low. DDR3 latency was trash compared to DDR2, etc... it's the nature of the signaling. They are both about equal footing given clock speed, and the effective clock on GDDR5 is 5.5GHz on PS4, so i'll take it.
    Yeah Vulgotha corrected me. Not sure how I screwed that up. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two4DaMoney View Post
    Old news for those that payed attention.
    This
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    They had no choice. If they hadn't we'd be seeing some games that are just atrociously bottle necked, there's no way they could really scrape by with just the bandwidth from the DDR3 memory.

    Every Xbox One title uses the Esram. Efficiently? Most probably not, it's still early yet.
    And this.
    Nothing really to see here.

  21. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickice View Post
    GDDR5 provides faster data transfer, but DDR3 provides faster latency is what I meant. Which is the only advantage Xbox One has, ES ram doesn't count.
    for games GDDR5 is much faster. When you are speaking latency, you are speaking in terms of video editing/rendering which DDR3 provides in terms of latency. Not for games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    for games GDDR5 is much faster. When you are speaking latency, you are speaking in terms of video editing/rendering which DDR3 provides in terms of latency. Not for games.
    DDR3 is better in terms of anything that requires lots of read/writes in short bursts. In terms of graphics, you tend be writing large chunks in one direction, so bandwidth is important, GDDR5 is ideal for that.
    But you wont be seeing CPU's hooking up to it anytime soon.
    Games use a mixture of both, however with such a closed box, I'm sure they can foresee and overcome any latency issues GDDR5 would cause in compute functions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    DDR3 is better in terms of anything that requires lots of read/writes in short bursts. In terms of graphics, you tend be writing large chunks in one direction, so bandwidth is important, GDDR5 is ideal for that.
    But you wont be seeing CPU's hooking up to it anytime soon.
    Games use a mixture of both, however with such a closed box, I'm sure they can foresee and overcome any latency issues GDDR5 would cause in compute functions.
    Err.. what?
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    Quote Originally Posted by victorijapoosp View Post
    Err.. what?
    I don't mean simultaneously, think of latency as the time it takes to "change direction", from reading to writing.
    Or even the time it take when you ask for x memory data.
    If you are asking a lot of little memory locations, all over the place (as CPU's tend to do), then the faster that is the better.
    If your just simply dumping a whole heap of data (or reading) from location X, then bandwidth is more important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I don't mean simultaneously, think of latency as the time it takes to "change direction", from reading to writing.
    Or even the time it take when you ask for x memory data.
    If you are asking a lot of little memory locations, all over the place (as CPU's tend to do), then the faster that is the better.
    If your just simply dumping a whole heap of data (or reading) from location X, then bandwidth is more important.
    Try not to over state this though, we went through a whole thread that started with the hyper-visor and why DDR3 would perform better at that because of the latency, to ending with the latencys between DDR3 and GDDR5 really not being that different (9 to 11 and 12 to 14 for DDR3 and GDDR5 respectively) and that a hyper-visor setup would be completely fine with GDDR memory setup.

    There must be work arounds or negligible hits to performance from increased latency though, as its been happening with every new version of DDR ram with 4 probably pushing it even further. The 360 ran a pretty tight ship on GDDR3 also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Try not to over state this though, we went through a whole thread that started with the hyper-visor and why DDR3 would perform better at that because of the latency, to ending with the latencys between DDR3 and GDDR5 really not being that different (9 to 11 and 12 to 14 for DDR3 and GDDR5 respectively) and that a hyper-visor setup would be completely fine with GDDR memory setup.

    There must be work arounds or negligible hits to performance from increased latency though, as its been happening with every new version of DDR ram with 4 probably pushing it even further. The 360 ran a pretty tight ship on GDDR3 also.
    Yeah as I said earlier, these machines are closed boxes, even if there were any significant differences, you can profile, and work around them, its really a non-issue in a closed box system.

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    Because the PS4 uses an APU, it will benefit much more with fast RAM that the GDDR5 provides. But like I said before, for video rendering/editing and that stuff, the latency will make a small difference but for gamers, you won't notice even a percentage of a difference with the latency between DDR3 and GDDR5. Like mynd said, if it's that much of a big deal it's most likely an easy work around if that latency is somehow an issue. It really shouldn't be and if we are going to speak on behalf of latency, there are much better options than what the Xbox One provides with DDR3 anyway.

    For the latency in what DDR3 provides in the Xbox One running, I doubt it's even at 9, more like 11 since it's running at 2133.

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    "Careful use of eSRAM..."

    Exactly, hence the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    "Careful use of eSRAM..."

    Exactly, hence the problem.
    Meh. Care-full use of SPU's was a far bigger issue. People worry about 32 mb, try 256kb.

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