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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    The game is there, on the servers already. Whether it's there to be streamed, or completely downloaded. It's already there.
    You can't stream your games at this point.
    You can't store personal videos on the hdd as it is. They are all on servers already. Bought again? NO. Check Vudu. I can buy a movie, and I have the options of streaming the movie whenever, on a handful of devices; OR I can download the movie. Let's say, I deleted the movie. I can download it again, and again, and again, without every spending another penny on it.
    yes you can store your videos on the HDD.

    as for streaming, again, there is a problem that I already mentioned, see quote below:

    Can I use VUDU to access UltraViolet movies that I purchased at other retailers and/or redeemed on other services?

    Yes, you can stream and download any UltraViolet movies using VUDU, at no extra charge to you, regardless of where they were purchased, provided that: 1) you have registered those movies in your UltraViolet account and 2) VUDU has a licensing relationship with the participating studio or distributor.
    you are stuck with VUDU. you are using "their" servers. your servers aren't neutral or yours. they are theirs, they are letting you use them. you only have limited access to them. you can't just put whatever movie you want on their servers. they are not yours. i'm speaking about owning your own server. a completely different thing. where you can keep your data, your movies and your games (that you can stream too) etc.


    HDD aren't that small when applying what you can actually store on them. I did the info on the Xbox One. You can download every single digital item they have for sale right nowand your HDD won't be full. Now apply that to how much you would actually buy, and keep on the HDD over the next two, three, etc., years. Also, remember, those games you've downloaded, you can delete when you need space, and download them again later, at no extra cost at all.
    your 500GB is not good enough. yes, right now it's fine but as time progresses, you will run out. realistically you won't be getting that many games but we're also not including your personal stuff that you would also have on the HDD. again, i'm not even talking about "right now". i'm talking about the future. 500GB is a lot now but moving forward, a lot of 4K movies will take up a lot of space and you'd have to juggle between which one to download. you can't stream these either. also i'm not saying this would be a cost to you but something that can be added on to the subscription value. like i said a few dozen posts ago, dedicated servers would've cost extra a while ago but now they're included in the subscription. they technically don't cost a dime to someone who was going to keep subscription anyway.

    4K movies don't have a single thing related to a gaming console. If you wanted to say that Live and PSN sell movies, well, as of now, you can't even store them anyways... so even if they were 10K res movies, you wouldn't use any more space than the file size of the app.
    What? These consoles are 4K enabled for movies. yes they are totally related. i'm not talking about right now lol and yeah, how funny that you can't even store them right now. i don't understand your last sentence. what app?

  2. #77
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    In the future streaming 4k will be plausible. Infarct I bet some people do have th bandwidth t do it now.
    Last edited by keefy; 01-04-2014 at 03:21.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Your idea fails left right and centre. Just give it up.
    that's funny because it's already there and successful.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    You can't stream your games at this point.
    yes you can store your videos on the HDD.

    the only videos you can save on the consoles right now is the game capture.

    as for streaming, again, there is a problem that I already mentioned, see quote below:

    you are stuck with VUDU. you are using "their" servers. your servers aren't neutral or yours. they are theirs, they are letting you use them. you only have limited access to them. you can't just put whatever movie you want on their servers. they are not yours. i'm speaking about owning your own server. a completely different thing. where you can keep your data, your movies and your games (that you can stream too) etc.

    Look. The only benefit you can have with renting a server from Microsoft or Sony, would be eventually, a game won't be sold any more. However, that benefit is only determined for how long you'll be able to rent that "cloud" space from them. It's always their servers/cloud, whatever you want to call it. It won't ever be yours, and you'll only be allowed to store what they allow. You'll only be allowed to rent it as long as they want to provide it.

    your 500GB is not good enough. yes, right now it's fine but as time progresses, you will run out. realistically you won't be getting that many games but we're also not including your personal stuff that you would also have on the HDD. again, i'm not even talking about "right now". i'm talking about the future. 500GB is a lot now but moving forward, a lot of 4K movies will take up a lot of space and you'd have to juggle between which one to download. you can't stream these either. also i'm not saying this would be a cost to you but something that can be added on to the subscription value. like i said a few dozen posts ago, dedicated servers would've cost extra a while ago but now they're included in the subscription. they technically don't cost a dime to someone who was going to keep subscription anyway.

    I haven't even run out of space on my 320GB Xbox 360, or my 120GB PS3. Those are consoles I can actually PUT movies on; compared to the Xbox One and PS4, which you can't (besides that very limited game capture).

    What? These consoles are 4K enabled for movies. yes they are totally related. i'm not talking about right now lol and yeah, how funny that you can't even store them right now. i don't understand your last sentence. what app?

    Irrelevant because they've already gone away from being able to download movies from their online store and have them on your console. The app that plays the movie.. move player




  5. #80
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    the only videos you can save on the consoles right now is the game capture.
    why is that relevant? we know these consoles can or will have the ability to store personal media. are you telling me that PS4 won't ever have that ability (if it doesn't right now)?
    Look. The only benefit you can have with renting a server from Microsoft or Sony, would be eventually, a game won't be sold any more. However, that benefit is only determined for how long you'll be able to rent that "cloud" space from them. It's always their servers/cloud, whatever you want to call it. It won't ever be yours, and you'll only be allowed to store what they allow. You'll only be allowed to rent it as long as they want to provide it.
    and again, not sure what that has to do with what i'm talking about. if Sony or MS closed shop today, you won't be able to download those games eventually either. that would be the case with any online service. yes, i know we're renting that server but it would be your server as long as they are providing it.

    when i said that it's yours, i meant that you are in full control of it. it's just like owning a dropbox account. lol i'm going crazy here. you guys are acting like i'm from the future. this is all there already!

    I haven't even run out of space on my 320GB Xbox 360, or my 120GB PS3. Those are consoles I can actually PUT movies on; compared to the Xbox One and PS4, which you can't (besides that very limited game capture).
    dude lol. how is that relevant again!? you are talking about previous generation! everything is going to go up in size as we move forward. and my experience with the 320GB was much different. i had a bunch of data that i had to delete in order to keep my videos. i had to reinstall the data for games that i wasn't playing at that time. but again, i'm not talking about now or in the past. i'm talking about the future. we are going to need a lot more space than 500GB. those 4K movies take up tons of space.

    Irrelevant because they've already gone away from being able to download movies from their online store and have them on your console. The app that plays the movie.. move player
    exactly. irrelevant. you're stuck in the present.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    that's funny because it's already there and successful.
    So this fantastic idea you thought of isnt your own?
    Last edited by keefy; 01-04-2014 at 03:45. Reason: http://youtu.be/aPaClw2kM3Q

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    So this fantastic idea you thought of isnt your own?
    precisely. all i said was that there is potential for the future technology to eliminate the need for bigger HDDs and 5 pages later, we're here.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    [/B]why is that relevant? we know these consoles can or will have the ability to store personal media. are you telling me that PS4 won't ever have that ability (if it doesn't right now)?
    [B]and again, not sure what that has to do with what i'm talking about. if Sony or MS closed shop today, you won't be able to download those games eventually either. that would be the case with any online service. yes, i know we're renting that server but it would be your server as long as they are providing it.

    when i said that it's yours, i meant that you are in full control of it. it's just like owning a dropbox account. lol i'm going crazy here. you guys are acting like i'm from the future. this is all there already!

    [B]dude lol. how is that relevant again!? you are talking about previous generation! everything is going to go up in size as we move forward. and my experience with the 320GB was much different. i had a bunch of data that i had to delete in order to keep my videos. i had to reinstall the data for games that i wasn't playing at that time. but again, i'm not talking about now or in the past. i'm talking about the future. we are going to need a lot more space than 500GB. those 4K movies take up tons of space.

    [B]exactly. irrelevant. you're stuck in the present.
    When they give you the ability to store your own movies and music on the console hdd, then we'll talk. What's more important is that they are doing to enable DLNA and "your" server will be the last thing on your mind. Your computer will be your server.

    Fine though, I'll leave it at that in twenty years, everything will be digital, no physical media any more, but I doubt you'll be renting personal servers for consoles.

    It is only successful because it isn't on their terms. Don't think for one second that Microsoft or Sony are going to rent out servers to a console userbase and allow whatever you want to store there. That's not ever going to happen.




  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    When they give you the ability to store your own movies and music on the console hdd, then we'll talk. What's more important is that they are doing to enable DLNA and "your" server will be the last thing on your mind. Your computer will be your server.
    what? lol. you can already do that on the PS3!

    Fine though, I'll leave it at that in twenty years, everything will be digital, no physical media any more, but I doubt you'll be renting personal servers for consoles.
    gaikai already does that. except i don't know if you can own your own game or not. OnLive already does this except that one is more of a client/server thing, it's being done for the computation power.

    It is only successful because it isn't on their terms. Don't think for one second that Microsoft or Sony are going to rent out servers to a console userbase and allow whatever you want to store there. That's not ever going to happen.
    i'm not going to argue that. my entire point was that it can eliminate the need for a large HDD.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    what? lol. you can already do that on the PS3!

    I was talking about the Xbox One and PS4.

    gaikai already does that. except i don't know if you can own your own game or not. OnLive already does this except that one is more of a client/server thing, it's being done for the computation power.

    PC games... not console games. Huge difference.

    i'm not going to argue that. my entire point was that it can eliminate the need for a large HDD.

    I don't think they'll ever get rid of needing the hdd in the console. I think the size included will just keep getting bigger as time goes by. The problem with that is smaller hdds don't just keep getting sold. Eventually the tech is a bit different, the 500GB won't be available, etc.
    I think this is about done. Mainly, the fan base won't ever just want digital only. Period. They'll have to force it, and I think they'll lose that battle because they won't embrace what makes it flourish.




  11. #86
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    I was talking about the Xbox One and PS4.
    and that's why it's not irrelevant
    PC games... not console games. Huge difference.
    it's not there yet, i know that. lol.
    don't think they'll ever get rid of needing the hdd in the console. I think the size included will just keep getting bigger as time goes by. The problem with that is smaller hdds don't just keep getting sold. Eventually the tech is a bit different, the 500GB won't be available, etc.
    what are you talking about? you can still buy 4GB HDDs. they will likely be there for ages. Not until people start storing everything online, which is the future.

    and my point wasn't to "eliminate" the HDD, it was to keep it small. and 500GB was an arbitrary number. of course we're going to eventually have 1TB as the common HDD being sold, my point again, isn't to keep 500GB as the medium. it was an example with something we have at the moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I think this is about done. Mainly, the fan base won't ever just want digital only. Period. They'll have to force it, and I think they'll lose that battle because they won't embrace what makes it flourish.
    never said that we will go full DD. that was a separate comment i made, i think it's still possible that one or both will eventually go DD with some limited options for physical media people. it's not always going to stay this way. PS4/X1 already are better with internet...it's only time before internet is fully integrated into the console.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    and that's why it's not irrelevant it's not there yet, i know that. lol.what are you talking about? you can still buy 4GB HDDs. they will likely be there for ages. Not until people start storing everything online, which is the future.

    and my point wasn't to "eliminate" the HDD, it was to keep it small. and 500GB was an arbitrary number. of course we're going to eventually have 1TB as the common HDD being sold, my point again, isn't to keep 500GB as the medium. it was an example with something we have at the moment. never said that we will go full DD. that was a separate comment i made, i think it's still possible that one or both will eventually go DD with some limited options for physical media people. it's not always going to stay this way. PS4/X1 already are better with internet...it's only time before internet is fully integrated into the console.
    No, you don't just go out and buy a 4GB HDD. You are probably thinking of a thumb drive.
    Look, in the console world, they will dictate what you can store online. Period. It isn't a consumer choice. I don't think it will ever be. I will bet you the next generation console... you win this bet, I buy you the next generation console. XboxToo or PS5, or whatever they call them. I'll buy it for you. If they rent/sell console owners a server space to save the actual game on that space. Keep this post bookmarked.

    You can always say "it's only time before...". That's been said about CD's being done away with, same with DVDs, etc. 100 years from now, this post is looked at and they can finally say, "Sufi was right!!".




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    No, you don't just go out and buy a 4GB HDD. You are probably thinking of a thumb drive.
    Look, in the console world, they will dictate what you can store online. Period. It isn't a consumer choice. I don't think it will ever be. I will bet you the next generation console... you win this bet, I buy you the next generation console. XboxToo or PS5, or whatever they call them. I'll buy it for you. If they rent/sell console owners a server space to save the actual game on that space. Keep this post bookmarked.

    You can always say "it's only time before...". That's been said about CD's being done away with, same with DVDs, etc. 100 years from now, this post is looked at and they can finally say, "Sufi was right!!".
    owning your own server to put whatever you want on it, wasn't my main point. it was just wishful thinking. yes it's arguable that it may or may not happen. i was thinking more in terms of what the future will be like. i think we're going to start moving towards one virtual space for everything. i don't see why they would care what we put on there. since we can already do that on other virtual space services.

    You are able to copy your own videos and music on the PS3, they don't disallow you there, they let you swap out the PS3 HDD with your own...so why they'd care about that, i don't see a reason why would they not let us.

    even if none of that ever happens, going back to my original point, it was to show that you would not need a big HDD and guess what, i looked into OnLive and it's practically that except with OnLive, you don't need a HDD, it's all done on the server side, of course, because it's providing you with computation.

    where my point differed was that it would be done on a proper console, not something that is online only. so while the streaming is online only, your console would still do the processing and your console still has a HDD and games on it that you want on there. it's only streaming whatever you want it to stream.



    Apparently OnLive lets you buy the games too the only problem is that you don't actually own these games, you have a pass to play them for a very long time. reason being that streaming costs money so they can't let you own games forever because they'd end up losing money. not much different from what i was saying, just a different approach.

    I could see MS/Sony coming out with a cheaper option such as this in the future where they have a DD console that is dirt cheap and relies on subscription while the rest of us could have the proper (actual) console that would still be able to take advantage of the streaming but maybe done on your console like i had explained and it would be more expensive obviously because you can play locally from a disc or keep it on your HDD and would be ideal for those that don't have an internet or have a bad internet connection or just don't want DD.
    Last edited by Omar; 01-05-2014 at 05:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    owning your own server to put whatever you want on it, wasn't my main point. it was just wishful thinking. yes it's arguable that it may or may not happen. i was thinking more in terms of what the future will be like. i think we're going to start moving towards one virtual space for everything. i don't see why they would care what we put on there. since we can already do that on other virtual space services.


    You are able to copy your own videos and music on the PS3, they don't disallow you there, they let you swap out the PS3 HDD with your own...so why they'd care about that, i don't see a reason why would they not let us.

    even if none of that ever happens, going back to my original point, it was to show that you would not need a big HDD and guess what, i looked into OnLive and it's practically that except with OnLive, you don't need a HDD, it's all done on the server side, of course, because it's providing you with computation.

    where my point differed was that it would be done on a proper console, not something that is online only. so while the streaming is online only, your console would still do the processing and your console still has a HDD and games on it that you want on there. it's only streaming whatever you want it to stream.



    Apparently OnLive lets you buy the games too the only problem is that you don't actually own these games, you have a pass to play them for a very long time. reason being that streaming costs money so they can't let you own games forever because they'd end up losing money. not much different from what i was saying, just a different approach.

    I could see MS/Sony coming out with a cheaper option such as this in the future where they have a DD console that is dirt cheap and relies on subscription while the rest of us could have the proper (actual) console that would still be able to take advantage of the streaming but maybe done on your console like i had explained and it would be more expensive obviously because you can play locally from a disc or keep it on your HDD and would be ideal for those that don't have an internet or have a bad internet connection or just don't want DD.

    Because the more the allow, the less they can control, or sell. Like I said, it isn't going to happen this generation or next generation. If it does next gen, I'll be forking over whichever console you want.
    You notice that they didn't include that with the PS4, and didn't put DNLA on there. The didn't include it so they can try and generate more revenue from renting and buying movies and music.
    The only things you're going to be able to store on a server, when relating to the console, are the things that go along with the console. Period. No, you're not going to transfer your 1000 pictures from your digital camera to the PS5 and upload it to store.

    CAN they do it... sure. Are they? No.

    It's like we keep repeating the same thing over and over again.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Ok... I was wrong. Happy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Because the more the allow, the less they can control, or sell. Like I said, it isn't going to happen this generation or next generation. If it does next gen, I'll be forking over whichever console you want.
    You notice that they didn't include that with the PS4, and didn't put DNLA on there. The didn't include it so they can try and generate more revenue from renting and buying movies and music.
    The only things you're going to be able to store on a server, when relating to the console, are the things that go along with the console. Period. No, you're not going to transfer your 1000 pictures from your digital camera to the PS5 and upload it to store.

    CAN they do it... sure. Are they? No.

    It's like we keep repeating the same thing over and over again.
    I think Sony is adding that feature back in a Future Firmware Update. It would be wise of them to NOT return a feature that was heavily used on the PS3 and the fact that they were the ones who developed this Protocol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalSynFrey View Post
    I think Sony is adding that feature back in a Future Firmware Update. It would be wise of them to NOT return a feature that was heavily used on the PS3 and the fact that they were the ones who developed this Protocol.
    Oh definitely. Microsoft and Sony will both be putting it in their firmware due to the backlash of their respective users. Otherwise, they would have left those features out.




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    I am pretty sure the next generation of consoles wont have any drives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybertox View Post
    I am pretty sure the next generation of consoles wont have any drives.
    Not going to happen. I'm beyond pretty sure that hdd will be in the consoles.




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Because the more the allow, the less they can control, or sell. Like I said, it isn't going to happen this generation or next generation. If it does next gen, I'll be forking over whichever console you want.
    You notice that they didn't include that with the PS4, and didn't put DNLA on there. The didn't include it so they can try and generate more revenue from renting and buying movies and music.
    The only things you're going to be able to store on a server, when relating to the console, are the things that go along with the console. Period. No, you're not going to transfer your 1000 pictures from your digital camera to the PS5 and upload it to store.

    CAN they do it... sure. Are they? No.

    It's like we keep repeating the same thing over and over again.
    ok but you're steering off the conversation. i don't care if they will let us or not. that was just wishful thinking like i said. we're not even talking about the original discussion anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Not going to happen. I'm beyond pretty sure that hdd will be in the consoles.
    Well if they will still struggle with 1080p and 60 fps at that time then surely they will have hdds, they gonna be lost in time.

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