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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Its just a huge double standard IMO. Both sony and MS pay people to promote their products. When Sony was paying Jerry Lambert to promote their brand a lot of people thought it was great.
    Are you seriously comparing an ACTOR in known AD CAMPAIGNS to paying regular Joes to pretend they enjoy the product to their followers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Sony does this covertly. I know cause a Youtuber I follow talked about it in one of his videos some time ago, saying him and some others were approached about making videos for Planet Side 2. MS is just being overt about it. In any case, I don't see it as any issue, all the promotion in the world won't change the tech, games or philosophy of the console.
    they both do it openly and covertly. Sony used facebook as part of their long live play campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by snooper71 View Post
    Are you seriously comparing an ACTOR in known AD CAMPAIGNS to paying regular Joes to pretend they enjoy the product to their followers?

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    yep, and its been done before. They all get paid to promote the product.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 01-19-2014 at 19:13.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooper71 View Post
    Are you seriously comparing an ACTOR in known AD CAMPAIGNS to paying regular Joes to pretend they enjoy the product to their followers?

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    I was thinking that.

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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooper71 View Post
    Are you seriously comparing an ACTOR in known AD CAMPAIGNS to paying regular Joes to pretend they enjoy the product to their followers?

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    um..if they're pretending then doesn't that make them actors as well

    #doubleStandards

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  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shingo View Post
    Just like previous gen, ms wastes its own money, sony puts money more and more to games.
    well, we all know that the xbone is a multimedia box first, games console second, so no surprises here.

  7. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparc View Post
    um..if they're pretending then doesn't that make them actors as well

    #doubleStandards

    IF you pay a hooker to have sex with you its prostitution,
    but if you have a camera and film it, it is porn.
    Right?

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  9. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooper71 View Post
    Are you seriously comparing an ACTOR in known AD CAMPAIGNS to paying regular Joes to pretend they enjoy the product to their followers?

    Sent from my C6506 using Tapatalk
    Do you believe that someone that puts in 40 hrs a week playing a game on Xbox One, uploading videos daily, is pretending?

    What makes you feel these are average joes, and that they will be pretending?




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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Do you believe that someone that puts in 40 hrs a week playing a game on Xbox One, uploading videos daily, is pretending?

    What makes you feel these are average joes, and that they will be pretending?
    It's open to more than videogame bloggers. That is the real problem. It opens the door for Boxxy, Overly Attached Girlfriend or even Francis to monetize their fanbases in ways that they may not have taken the initiative to before.

    They could have gone the route of directly approaching bloggers of interest or maybe even going to Youtube directly for advertisement. Hey, that's generally how it's done. Instead, this is a direct ploy to have VLoggers with big fanbases to essentially cash in on their integrity. To be perfectly blunt.. I can see this even backfiring if people wanted to organize against it and go on the offensive against VLoggers who take the "blank check."

    ..but as long as there are enough people to sit by and not see a problem, who knows? It's an underhanded move, though. The web is more and more content driven by the day and this is a thinly veiled play at sidestepping the more expensive route of getting professional endorsement. Let's just call a spade a spade.

  11. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Good for sony. if they had the cash reserves as MS they probably would do it as much as MS. Its just business, and good business, IMO.
    them cash reserves. i guess that's why MS built a huge infrastructure of game development last generation, put out dozens more games with their own custom-built engines that created the best-looking console games and then kept all the important studios, gave us more freedom with peripherals, didn't charge ridiculous prices for them, did not charge a ridiculous price for (P2P) online play, did not sell us a cheaply made console for relatively far more than its cost, and with their new console they're absorbing the cost of the camera and taking a huge hit on it and now that they are charging us for online play due to dedicated servers...they are including free games, trials, avatars, discounts, rentals, betas. dem deep pockets and dem cash reserves.

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  13. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    well, we all know that the xbone is a multimedia box first, games console second, so no surprises here.
    Although your stating the obvious, im not really sure whether your taking pot shots or not?!

    Anyway...........

    Thanks to Final for the sick sig!

  14. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    It's open to more than videogame bloggers. That is the real problem. It opens the door for Boxxy, Overly Attached Girlfriend or even Francis to monetize their fanbases in ways that they may not have taken the initiative to before.

    They could have gone the route of directly approaching bloggers of interest or maybe even going to Youtube directly for advertisement. Hey, that's generally how it's done. Instead, this is a direct ploy to have VLoggers with big fanbases to essentially cash in on their integrity. To be perfectly blunt.. I can see this even backfiring if people wanted to organize against it and go on the offensive against VLoggers who take the "blank check."

    ..but as long as there are enough people to sit by and not see a problem, who knows? It's an underhanded move, though. The web is more and more content driven by the day and this is a thinly veiled play at sidestepping the more expensive route of getting professional endorsement. Let's just call a spade a spade.
    You're acting like one method is holy while the other is morally reprehensible. Since you won't acknowledged my example I have to make assumptions about your thought process.

    So if I understand you correctly, approaching bloggers of interest directly is somehow morally accepted in your own Larry David everyone should know my rules mindset. So what Sony has done with youtuber Chris Smoove is somehow better morally in your mind. They go up to Chris Smoove get him to all of a sudden flex for the PS4 when previously he just played games not giving a $#@! on what. This sudden change in behavior is not noted; his viewers one million viewers don't know he has some type of deal. They don't know he has some outside incentive. But they know he flexing for the PS4.

    This backroom type of $#@! that Sony does is sanctified to you while MS approach is hellish since you're obviously trying to equate one (Sony) as the right way. MS says that if we are paying you, your viewers will know as a disclaimer is required in tag form. That's your hellish approach lefein, letting the public know who's paying you.

    To be clear, I just don't give a $#@! how they advertise. Both companies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    Instead, this is a direct ploy to have VLoggers with big fanbases to essentially cash in on their integrity.
    Similar to what Sony has done with Chris Smoove.

    Are you going to acknowledged that?

    I understand why you don't want to though. Soon as you do this thread becomes ridiculous. Fight that good fight.

    By the way. I feel Chris Smoove's integrity is the same as its always been. That's a cool dude.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    them cash reserves. i guess that's why MS built a huge infrastructure of game development last generation, put out dozens more games with their own custom-built engines that created the best-looking console games and then kept all the important studios, gave us more freedom with peripherals, didn't charge ridiculous prices for them, did not charge a ridiculous price for (P2P) online play, did not sell us a cheaply made console for relatively far more than its cost, and with their new console they're absorbing the cost of the camera and taking a huge hit on it and now that they are charging us for online play due to dedicated servers...they are including free games, trials, avatars, discounts, rentals, betas. dem deep pockets and dem cash reserves.
    If you were following their conversation (shingo and substance) they were only talking about MS spending money as relates to advertising, warranted or wasted. Kinda what the threads about.

    You're trying to come outta left field with an entirely different conversation. Not seeing the use for your unrelated block of text. You're welcome to enlighten me though.
    Last edited by TrUe GaMeR; 01-20-2014 at 15:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    IF you pay a hooker to have sex with you its prostitution,
    but if you have a camera and film it, it is porn.
    Right?
    err...is the answer 42?

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  17. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal_NFS View Post
    Whatever you got to do to get your system sold. It is actually pretty smart. Use YouTube and all the billions of viewers to help promote the Xbox One. Sony should do the same.
    The problem is Sony doesn't need to pay people to talk about their system. If you make a good system that isn't flawed, the positive ratings will come. Paying people to do positive comments sounds like their is something shady going on. You don't pay people to shop at Gucci or a thrift store. lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrUe GaMeR View Post
    If you were following their conversation (shingo and substance) they were only talking about MS spending money as relates to advertising, warranted or wasted. Kinda what the threads about.

    You're trying to come outta left field with an entirely different conversation. Not seeing the use for your unrelated block of text. You're welcome to enlighten me though.
    then you don't get business. companies (especially division...e.g. Xbox Division) have limited budgets. They don't have deep pockets like people assume they do. They don't have the same cash reserves MS does as a whole. They are given a certain amount of budget and I suppose they would get more budget as they go along but overall they have to show profits. So generally there's a soft limit.

    They can't just spend billions of dollars on "everything" and make it work. They have to do it just like any other business, invest, get revenues, profits, on to the next project.

    So going back to my post, my point was that, so far it doesn't show that the Xbox Division has any more cash reserves than SCE does. In fact, I would say that the SCE branch have spent more money and invested more into the gamers than the Xbox Division has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    then you don't get business. companies (especially division...e.g. Xbox Division) have limited budgets. They don't have deep pockets like people assume they do. They don't have the same cash reserves MS does as a whole. They are given a certain amount of budget and I suppose they would get more budget as they go along but overall they have to show profits. So generally there's a soft limit.

    They can't just spend billions of dollars on "everything" and make it work. They have to do it just like any other business, invest, get revenues, profits, on to the next project.

    So going back to my post, my point was that, so far it doesn't show that the Xbox Division has any more cash reserves than SCE does. In fact, I would say that the SCE branch have spent more money and invested more into the gamers than the Xbox Division has.
    Well, when you're cutting checks for hundreds of millions of dollars to the NFL and getting Steven Spielberg to make Halo TV.. I guess you have to at least try to pretend gaming sits somewhere on the totem pole if you're going to wave an XBox flag around proudly.

    ..and no. I do not equate individuals being approached by marketing to push a product and a company waving a blank check at any and all Youtube based social media. One is targeted advertising and it happens in movies and VLogs a lot. Typically, there is plenty of visibility for it all the same (hence the rise of internet media at a time when traditional media is on the decline). The latter is a sad attempt to saturate any and all social media with a distorted presence of a product.

    Sorry, True_Gamer, they're not the same. Not even close. An esoteric hashtag does not change a thing.
    Last edited by Lefein; 01-20-2014 at 17:53.

  21. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    http://segmentnext.com/interstitial....mote-xbox-one/

    Today marks a sad day in gaming history. Youtube is officialy going to be blanketed in astroturf. RIP social media, you were fun while it lasted.
    its like you think no one else does that...

    Quote Originally Posted by TrUe GaMeR View Post
    Sony does this to just behind the scenes.

    Example time:

    Chris Smoove --- http://www.youtube.com/user/Smoove7182954/videos

    -has 1,446,156 subscribers. That's a lot.

    This is all speculation on my part.
    Since the PS4 has came out he stopped playing all other games current or next gen except for NBA 2k14 on the PS4. He tags PS4 in the title of his videos even though he has never tagged what system he plays on before. Sony sent him to meet 3 nba players to play 2K14 on the PS4 and promote the PS4.

    He's know for his 2k vids but also his call of duty vids. He hasn't uploaded a single call of duty video even though the new one is out. Clearly Sony is giving him some kind of incentive to behave in ways not previously noted. Because of Sony he also stopped playing Black Flag which is $#@!ed because I was watching that because he seems to excel at every game he plays.

    Oh yeah the PS4 giveaways he's done.


    Unlike Lefein I don't see the big deal.

    But it does give credence to one thing. Being transparent doesn't get you $#@! and it's a fools game if you think it does. MS being transparent since the unveiling hasn't done a damn thing for em. They need to take notes from Sony on this aspect and say $#@! it. Even on this youtube thing I prefers MS being up front than Sony hijacking an entire youtubers with some unknown incentive.
    $#@!, oh well.
    aye, funny how this stuff works.
    you put MS on the front it's bad, you put Sony on the front and FANTASTIC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrUe GaMeR View Post
    This backroom type of $#@! that Sony does is sanctified to you while MS approach is hellish since you're obviously trying to equate one (Sony) as the right way. MS says that if we are paying you, your viewers will know as a disclaimer is required in tag form. That's your hellish approach lefein, letting the public know who's paying you.
    that's what its all about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yungstar 2006 View Post
    its like you think no one else does that...



    aye, funny how this stuff works.
    you put MS on the front it's bad, you put Sony on the front and FANTASTIC.
    Some gamers do have the worse double standards. They seem to forget what happened in the industry during the 90s. Nowadays, MS is the evil devil with all the money. Shame on them for using social media.
    Last edited by Admartian; 01-20-2014 at 21:36. Reason: Nice try editing after my post.

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    Okay - if talk is not about advertising, YouTube, monetising, promoting, don't post it.

    I'll leave the recent posts above mine of what NOT to post.

    Consider this 'an 'etiquette' guide for this thread.
    ~Admartian

    EDIT:
    Also, editing your post to add your "arguments" isn't allowed either.

    3/10 for effort though.

    Last edited by Admartian; 01-20-2014 at 21:37.

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    Yep slimey as $#@!. Itīs almost to easy to bash MS now lol.
    Not long ago there was a story about employments in an MS office which only job were to wrote positive stuff about MS on reddit all day long. Then we had a massive ban wave on NeoGAF when all the astroturfs got called out. All that happened last year IIRC. Now this. Seems like MS still in panic mode and trying to fix their bad reputation with money. This can backfire hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bariton1 View Post
    Yep slimey as $#@!. Itīs almost to easy to bash MS now lol.
    Not long ago there was a story about employments in an MS office which only job were to wrote positive stuff about MS on reddit all day long. Then we had a massive ban wave on NeoGAF when all the astroturfs got called out. All that happened last year IIRC. Now this. Seems like MS still in panic mode and trying to fix their bad reputation with money. This can backfire hard.
    There are astrotrufers in anything - not isolated to gaming.

    You could say the ones from MS maybe were bit more obvious and got caught. But yeah pretty sure they all do it.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Sony does this covertly. I know cause a Youtuber I follow talked about it in one of his videos some time ago, saying him and some others were approached about making videos for Planet Side 2. MS is just being overt about it. In any case, I don't see it as any issue, all the promotion in the world won't change the tech, games or philosophy of the console.

    Right.

    What I was trying get at with that comment was that microsofts way to solve everything is with money. People don't realize what Microsofts main purpose in business is and how they make the most money. If you look at history, Microsoft has always been into markets that it can dominate and/or to create a monopoly, software wise and company wise. They aren't doing neither of these in the console markets and they are certainly not making a profit they want which is why you see shareholders with their thumbs down and CEO candidates with other shareholders wanting to pull out of this. Even though the money they are throwing at youtube is only 3$ per 1,000 views, there are quite a few review youtube names out there and this just adds more to the cost that they shouldn't be spending on. In my opinion of course, they shouldn't be wasting their money on this as they are trying to make a profit on a $499 console that is under it's competition in terms of specs, hardware etc etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    Right.

    What I was trying get at with that comment was that microsofts way to solve everything is with money. People don't realize what Microsofts main purpose in business is and how they make the most money. If you look at history, Microsoft has always been into markets that it can dominate and/or to create a monopoly, software wise and company wise. They aren't doing neither of these in the console markets and they are certainly not making a profit they want which is why you see shareholders with their thumbs down and CEO candidates with other shareholders wanting to pull out of this. Even though the money they are throwing at youtube is only 3$ per 1,000 views, there are quite a few review youtube names out there and this just adds more to the cost that they shouldn't be spending on. In my opinion of course, they shouldn't be wasting their money on this as they are trying to make a profit on a $499 console that is under it's competition in terms of specs, hardware etc etc.
    I'm gonna stop you there - the objective of business is to make money. Now while I disagree when companies tend to complain and overreact (i.e. fire a whole bunch of people) because their profits in 2012: was 65 billion and in 2013: it's now "ONLY" 61 billion; that's when it gets frustrating.

    But yeah, you can't have a go at a company for wanting to make money. They're *ALL* doing that.

    However, I don't like the concept of monopolies and this quest, to "control" everything. It's one thing to have fingers in a lot of pies, but I don't like it when they seem to try and kill competition.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/0...-one-mentions/

    These kinds of payments aren't inherently suspect in and of themselves. If the video makers disclosed that Microsoft was paying extra for these videos, and if they were allowed to say whatever they wanted in those videos, then the whole thing could be seen as merely an unorthodox way to increase exposure for the Xbox One on YouTube.

    That's not the case, however. According to a leaked copy of the full legal agreement behind the promotion, video creators "may not say anything negative or disparaging about Machinima, Xbox One, or any of its Games" and must keep the details of the promotional agreement confidential in order to qualify for payment. In other words, to get the money, video makers have to speak positively (or at least neutrally) about the Xbox One, and they can't say they're being paid to do so.

    The arrangement as described might go against the FTC's guidelines for the use of endorsements in advertising, which demand full disclosure when there is "a connection between the endorser and the seller of the advertised product that might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement." The document offers a specific example of a video game blogger who gets a free game system that he later talks about on his blog. That blogger would need to disclose that gift, the FTC says, because his opinion is "disseminated via a form of consumer-generated media in which his relationship to the advertiser is not inherently obvious." That same reasoning would seem to apply to the opinions expressed by the video makers participating in this promotion. Neither Microsoft nor Machinima responded immediately to a request for comment on the matter, but we'll let you know if and when we hear from them.

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