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  1. #26
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    If they do release a Kinect less console it would be a massive waste of all that promotion of the useless thing to basically do a 360


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    They made the choice to bundle Kinect, which in turn made them sacrifice on specs to keep the price where it is. That ONE decision could be what ultimately holds the Xbox One back in terms of sales.

    I just realized my post had little to nothing in terms of the topic at hand. Carry on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    he doesn't know that. he's using words like "forever" predicting the future. Everyone knows knows Conrad trolls MS every chance he gets. he's not a dev and is just another journalist repeating stuff he hears.
    his maths are correct. that's all i'm going to say. you can predict maths. if something doesn't fit, it doesn't fit, you can't make the frame buffer smaller in size. it's always going to stay that way.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    This reminds me of people posting a few months back that "MS is not trying to compete with ps, they going after apple and such with an all in one console". Yet those same people are now defending it making up excuses.(not saying you)
    Those people just go with whatever is convenient to their argument at the time. Thats why they cant be taken seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Maybe in the past that had a little truth to it, but to say they are less focused on games right now doesn't seem to fit that anymore. How can anyone say that looking at their lineup? 2014 for them is looking stronger than anything else out there in my opinion, and they have arguably the hottest game of the year releasing in a few weeks and the beta is getting rave reviews.Yes, ms brough back Forza but they also brought in Ryse, Killer Instinct, Quantum break, Project spark, ,sunset overdrive, Max the brotherhood, Titan Fall, D4, and i'm sure there will be more announcements come E-3. They actually showed more games at E-3 than sony, and covered no TV stuff, but sony did. That doesn't look like they aren't taking few to no chances on new games. Maybe you can say that about xbox-360 but not for xbox-one. Can we say honestly say that their xb1 launch lineup wasn't better? I don't think so. The gen has just started, bro. Getting caught up in all this stuff on forums means nothing in the big picture.
    Lmao!
    Last edited by Admartian; 02-18-2014 at 20:07.

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    Originally Posted by Yuuichi
    This reminds me of people posting a few months back that "MS is not trying to compete with ps, they going after apple and such with an all in one console". Yet those same people are now defending it making up excuses.(not saying you)
    well, that makes no sense because they do compete with playstation. They may be more concerned with apple and google for obvious reasons. Consoles are evolving just like other electronics.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Titanfall trumps everything that 2014 has to offer by anyone, apparently.
    Lol, really? its pretty meh from what ive played and seen be played. dead rising is much better

    Thanks to Final for the sick sig!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    well, that makes no sense because they do compete with playstation. They may be more concerned with apple and google for obvious reasons. Consoles are evolving just like other electronics.
    I'm pretty sure you where one of those people saying that exact thing. When I get home I'll look at the thread,of the reveal.
    I have twitter to https://twitter.com/GamerYuichi , Also started youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMu7yRGCz8QrTyxaNVR3Tqw I don't always twitch, but when I can you can find my noobness http://www.twitch.tv/yuichimccry,




  8. #33
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    Not surprising. Esram is really the culprit here. From what I recall (take this with a grain of salt) Microsoft engineers wanted 64MB of it but ended up with half that.

    As for FEAR's original post, from what I can tell Sony made a gamble and it paid off. They were originally going to go with a low amount of fast GDDR5 because the densities just were not there to go with anything bigger. Then things changed with the memory manufacturers and they swooped in on it, veritably 'last second'. Microsoft saw the same issue long ago and simply decided to sidestep the problem by reaching the memory capacity they wanted via DDR3 and to supplement the bandwidth with Esram.

    This kind of mentality is typical of Sony, if you look at all their consoles they have seemingly always prioritized bandwidth over capacity. They want the fastest RAM they can reasonably stick into their machines (thus their history with Rambus).

    As has been noted before, Microsoft actually has a higher budget for their APU. It is quite simply bigger than Sony's in the PS4. So how was it then that they ended up with a bigger piece of silicon and considerably weaker hardware? The Esram. 32MB may not sound like anything, especially compared to the 8GB both of these things pack, but Esram is a different beast entirely. Requires alot more work to incorporate and space to consume than regular memory.

    Still, even if this hadn't come about it would remain likely that Sony would retain a bandwidth edge and a considerable GPU advantage. They just would have had less usable memory. As for whyMicrosoft would trade more slow memory + Esram + weaker GPU vs. smaller, faster, memory + more powerful GPU... It could be they honestly wanted developers to have that much. More likely, again in my opinion, they simply wanted to make the gaming hardware 'adequate' and be able to allot a ton of resources (memory) to multimedia functionality.

    So it is probable from the start their hardware choices centered around this box not being a gaming machine, but a multimedia hub.

    This interpretation makes the most sense, given their HDMI in set up, Kinect 2.0, and all the NFL/tv deals.

    My opinion for what it's worth.


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  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Titanfall trumps everything that 2014 has to offer by anyone, apparently.
    lol Yeah that made me spit out my coffee. Lmao.

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    Originally Posted by Christopher
    Titanfall trumps everything that 2014 has to offer by anyone, apparently.
    Well i don't know about that because we haven't seen or played all 2014 has to offer yet. My comment about it being the "hottest" game of the year is based on the awards and buzz it's been receiving since it's reveal, and IMO lives up to it based on what i've played. I wasn't making a comparison. I was just saying that here is this huge game that's a new IP on xb1.

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    MS currently has the smallest and the weakest first party studios.

    Let's skip the point that Titanfall is on PC and that trying use a PC/Xbox game a hottest exclusive is just saying you don't have better game to name.

    Titanfall is a prime example of why MS's main focus is not gaming. Instead of buying out good developer. MS current state of first party is weakest out of the big 3. The gap is just getting bigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serinous View Post
    big difference though is that Nintendo was able to offer an appealing product to mass non-core at a good price. MS may be trying to do that same but delivery something that isn't really appealing and price sucks too.
    I am not saying MS's strategy was correct, but saying that it seems like that was their business strategy seemed to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by 33x View Post
    Lol, really? its pretty meh from what ive played and seen be played. dead rising is much better

    Bro. You dont know what you are talking about, bro.

    Bro, it won E3 award. E3 award bro. It is da hottest thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Not surprising. Esram is really the culprit here. From what I recall (take this with a grain of salt) Microsoft engineers wanted 64MB of it but ended up with half that.

    As for FEAR's original post, from what I can tell Sony made a gamble and it paid off. They were originally going to go with a low amount of fast GDDR5 because the densities just were not there to go with anything bigger. Then things changed with the memory manufacturers and they swooped in on it, veritably 'last second'. Microsoft saw the same issue long ago and simply decided to sidestep the problem by reaching the memory capacity they wanted via DDR3 and to supplement the bandwidth with Esram.

    This kind of mentality is typical of Sony, if you look at all their consoles they have seemingly always prioritized bandwidth over capacity. They want the fastest RAM they can reasonably stick into their machines (thus their history with Rambus).

    As has been noted before, Microsoft actually has a higher budget for their APU. It is quite simply bigger than Sony's in the PS4. So how was it then that they ended up with a bigger piece of silicon and considerably weaker hardware? The Esram. 32MB may not sound like anything, especially compared to the 8GB both of these things pack, but Esram is a different beast entirely. Requires alot more work to incorporate and space to consume than regular memory.

    Still, even if this hadn't come about it would remain likely that Sony would retain a bandwidth edge and a considerable GPU advantage. They just would have had less usable memory. As for whyMicrosoft would trade more slow memory + Esram + weaker GPU vs. smaller, faster, memory + more powerful GPU... It could be they honestly wanted developers to have that much. More likely, again in my opinion, they simply wanted to make the gaming hardware 'adequate' and be able to allot a ton of resources (memory) to multimedia functionality.

    So it is probable from the start their hardware choices centered around this box not being a gaming machine, but a multimedia hub.

    This interpretation makes the most sense, given their HDMI in set up, Kinect 2.0, and all the NFL/tv deals.

    My opinion for what it's worth.
    Even spec analysis of the 4gig GDDR5 ram called PS4 more powerful. Sony's gamble just made it bigger.

    You could tell that MS's priority was not gaming machine, but media machine first.
    Last edited by Admartian; 02-19-2014 at 00:54. Reason: DP

  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    MS has been on this path for years with the 360. Less focus on games and more focus on media and apps. Just look at the past few E3s (pre current gen ones), you had Usher on stage ffs and then the way MS chose to reveal the XB1 (the famous tv, tv, tv,sports, tv, tv, collar duty, sports, tv) spoke VOLUMES about how they perceive their console. MS made the same four exclusives for years taking few to no chances on new games or IP, that's not the output of a company who envisions its future as the king of consoles. They got $#@!y and arrogant, resting on their laurels while Sony kept up their focus on what has always been the focus, games, and fixed all of the mistakes they made last gen with what has now become the leading platform in power and price.

    Even if MS did ditches Kinect for a lower price point, it still isn't hitting that next gen benchmark many expected with a new gen of consoles and the troubling this is for MS is that Sony is just getting warmed up and has a hell of a lot more stacked in its favor right now.
    Ghost hit the nail right on the head!
    Sent from my computer using keyboard.

  14. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    MS currently has the smallest and the weakest first party studios.

    Let's skip the point that Titanfall is on PC and that trying use a PC/Xbox game a hottest exclusive is just saying you don't have better game to name.

    Titanfall is a prime example of why MS's main focus is not gaming. Instead of buying out good developer. MS current state of first party is weakest out of the big 3. The gap is just getting bigger.
    I wouldn't exactly call their first party studios weak. Well, i guess it depends on what you mean by that. They don't pump out as many titles but the ones they do are pretty successful. The additions of Team Dakota and Press Play dosen't hurt either. Not to mention good 2nd party partners like Undead Labs and Insomniac.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Yes, ms brough back Forza but they also brought in
    Ryse, ~ MS don't own it
    Killer Instinct, ~ Devs bought by Amazon
    Quantum break, ~ MS don't own it
    Project spark, ~ 1
    sunset overdrive, ~ MS don't own it
    Max the brotherhood, ~ 2
    Titan Fall, ~ MS don't own it
    D4, ~MS don't own it
    and i'm sure there will be more announcements come E-3.
    5 out of 8 of those developers/ip's aren't owned by MS, doesn't it concern you that they could jump out at anytime?

    That would then leave MS with only Forza, Project Spark and the Max series.
    Great if you like those games though.
    Last edited by Bitbydeath; 02-19-2014 at 03:04.

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  17. #40
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    killer instinct is a tricky one.

  18. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    5 out of 8 of those developers/ip's aren't owned by MS, doesn't it concern you that they could jump out at anytime?

    That would then leave MS with only Forza, Project Spark and the Max series.
    Great if you like those games though.
    There's still Halo and Gears.
    I am the oncoming storm.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    5 out of 8 of those developers/ip's aren't owned by MS, doesn't it concern you that they could jump out at anytime?

    That would then leave MS with only Forza, Project Spark and the Max series.
    Great if you like those games though.
    lol..so i guess they don't own Killer instinct either. It wasn't about how many IP they own. It was about what they are bringing as far as new ips for xb1. Only one of those was on xbox 360.

    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    killer instinct is a tricky one.
    The creative director for the game was with MS and not Double Helix.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 02-19-2014 at 03:20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    lol..so i guess they don't own Killer instinct either. It wasn't about how many IP they own. It was about what they are bringing as far as new ips for xb1. Only one of those was on xbox 360.
    I counted it, which is why I said 5 of 8 and not 6 of 8.
    Still important to note the devs are MIA, MS isn't exactly brimming with other talent to pass the game onto so chances of seeing a sequel are quite slim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian
    There's still Halo and Gears.


    Yep, and the Fable devs.
    But that is about it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I wouldn't exactly call their first party studios weak. Well, i guess it depends on what you mean by that. They don't pump out as many titles but the ones they do are pretty successful. The additions of Team Dakota and Press Play dosen't hurt either. Not to mention good 2nd party partners like Undead Labs and Insomniac.
    MS certainly have built on their 1st party numbers, but calling Insomniac 2nd party would be a bit of a stretch. Sunset Overdrive is exclusive,yes, but they have still made games for Sony which puts them as 3rd party. We would need to see a couple more X1 exclusive games and nothing being made for Sony before they should be counted as 2nd party to MS.

  22. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    Not surprising. Esram is really the culprit here. From what I recall (take this with a grain of salt) Microsoft engineers wanted 64MB of it but ended up with half that.

    As for FEAR's original post, from what I can tell Sony made a gamble and it paid off. They were originally going to go with a low amount of fast GDDR5 because the densities just were not there to go with anything bigger. Then things changed with the memory manufacturers and they swooped in on it, veritably 'last second'. Microsoft saw the same issue long ago and simply decided to sidestep the problem by reaching the memory capacity they wanted via DDR3 and to supplement the bandwidth with Esram.

    This kind of mentality is typical of Sony, if you look at all their consoles they have seemingly always prioritized bandwidth over capacity. They want the fastest RAM they can reasonably stick into their machines (thus their history with Rambus).

    As has been noted before, Microsoft actually has a higher budget for their APU. It is quite simply bigger than Sony's in the PS4. So how was it then that they ended up with a bigger piece of silicon and considerably weaker hardware? The Esram. 32MB may not sound like anything, especially compared to the 8GB both of these things pack, but Esram is a different beast entirely. Requires alot more work to incorporate and space to consume than regular memory.

    Still, even if this hadn't come about it would remain likely that Sony would retain a bandwidth edge and a considerable GPU advantage. They just would have had less usable memory. As for whyMicrosoft would trade more slow memory + Esram + weaker GPU vs. smaller, faster, memory + more powerful GPU... It could be they honestly wanted developers to have that much. More likely, again in my opinion, they simply wanted to make the gaming hardware 'adequate' and be able to allot a ton of resources (memory) to multimedia functionality.

    So it is probable from the start their hardware choices centered around this box not being a gaming machine, but a multimedia hub.

    This interpretation makes the most sense, given their HDMI in set up, Kinect 2.0, and all the NFL/tv deals.

    My opinion for what it's worth.
    i agree with you wholeheartedly...just to add a few things...

    - i have also heard about MS engineers wanting 64mb of ESRAM...can you imagine what that would have done to the silicon budget though??...because the ESRAM is on-die it takes up massive amounts of space on the APU...the xbone's APU is already bigger than the PS4's...

    - Yes, and yes about Sony and GDDR5....Cerny said that they even investigated themselves the idea of going with an on-die memory setup with up to 1TB/s of bandwidth(!) and a slightly slower memory bus on the GDDR5..but GDDR5 was always the plan...one thing the developers told them though was they wanted 8GB of RAM, and they wanted a unified memory system...Sony DID get lucky that the denser modules became available in the the quantities they needed...

    - Yes, MS knew they needed the 8GB from the start...so when development of Durango began it was a simple choice...8GB of DDR3 and an on-die embedded solution for bandwidth increases...unfortunately this required a smaller GPU because you just didnt have room for anything else...
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  24. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    I counted it, which is why I said 5 of 8 and not 6 of 8.
    Still important to note the devs are MIA, MS isn't exactly brimming with other talent to pass the game onto so chances of seeing a sequel are quite slim.
    Same thing was said about Halo. Killer Instinct is in good hands as long as ken Lobb is overseeing it.


    Yep, and the Fable devs.
    But that is about it...


    i think they have more than that.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    MS certainly have built on their 1st party numbers, but calling Insomniac 2nd party would be a bit of a stretch. Sunset Overdrive is exclusive,yes, but they have still made games for Sony which puts them as 3rd party. We would need to see a couple more X1 exclusive games and nothing being made for Sony before they should be counted as 2nd party to MS.
    if i'm not mistaken insomniac's game is being published by MS so that makes them 2nd party. It's the same as Quantum Dream and Ready at Dawn with sony.
    Last edited by Sub-stance1; 02-19-2014 at 04:14.

  25. #47
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    Um no, it's like saying epic was 2nd party last gen because of gears but yet they released unreal on the ps3

    Better yet, why would they go multiplatform just to end back at where they started? Developing for one platform...

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
    Last edited by YoungMullah88; 02-19-2014 at 04:39.

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    Insomniac isn't 2nd party. That title goes to companies that are more or less exclusive to one platform. RaD is a good example, all PS bar Okami on Wii. QD, all Sony etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Insomniac isn't 2nd party. That title goes to companies that are more or less exclusive to one platform. RaD is a good example, all PS bar Okami on Wii. QD, all Sony etc.
    Yes, but they have a contract with the platform holder and they are independent, so that makes them 2nd party. Same as when they were with sony. Sony owns the IPs but the fact that insomniac are independent made them second party for sony as well. So they are considered 2nd party for both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Same thing was said about Halo. Killer Instinct is in good hands as long as ken Lobb is overseeing it.
    all they did was upgrade the graphics.

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