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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrUe GaMeR View Post
    Yep it's pro MS and also pro consumer from the xbox view. They are simply ensuring that their customers are not screwed. It seems you want MS to feel guilty of looking out for the people who purchased their product.

    If they want both and have limited resources the logical thing to do would be to go with the XB1 first since it's basically free to get started and the PS4 after they get that revenue.

    If I have two options to develop for and only resources for one, why would I choose the one with a greater introductory price (as I have shown) with my resources being limited. It makes no sense to me. And I doubt you have data that shows indie games on one console out sale the indie games on the other. So the argument of could sell more on one platform is useless.



    On what basis are you alluding to that it will continue after the first year?
    I don't see it as ensuring their customers aren't screwed. If I only develop the game for the PS4, then their customers are getting screwed because I can't then port the game over to the XB1.

    If I have limited resources, I'm going to go with the platform that has the higher userbase first. You keep doubting if anyone has data, but don't provide anything of the sort either. You have data that shows indie games on the XB1 outsell the PS4? No. The arguments can be flipped either way.

    With a higher install base, you have more customers you can reach. That is pure fact.




  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrUe GaMeR View Post
    Yep it's pro MS and also pro consumer from the xbox view. They are simply ensuring that their customers are not screwed. It seems you want MS to feel guilty of looking out for the people who purchased their product.

    If they want both and have limited resources the logical thing to do would be to go with the XB1 first since it's basically free to get started and the PS4 after they get that revenue.

    If I have two options to develop for and only resources for one, why would I choose the one with a greater introductory price (as I have shown) with my resources being limited. It makes no sense to me. And I doubt you have data that shows indie games on one console out sale the indie games on the other. So the argument of could sell more on one platform is useless.



    On what basis are you alluding to that it will continue after the first year?
    I don't see it as ensuring their customers aren't screwed. If I only develop the game for the PS4, then their customers are getting screwed because I can't then port the game over to the XB1.

    If I have limited resources, I'm going to go with the platform that has the higher userbase first. You keep doubting if anyone has data, but don't provide anything of the sort either. You have data that shows indie games on the XB1 outsell the PS4? No. The arguments can be flipped either way.

    With a higher install base, you have more customers you can reach. That is pure fact.




  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I don't see it as ensuring their customers aren't screwed. If I only develop the game for the PS4, then their customers are getting screwed because I can't then port the game over to the XB1.

    If I have limited resources, I'm going to go with the platform that has the higher userbase first. You keep doubting if anyone has data, but don't provide anything of the sort either. You have data that shows indie games on the XB1 outsell the PS4? No. The arguments can be flipped either way.

    With a higher install base, you have more customers you can reach. That is pure fact.
    And just about every indie dev has received a free loaner dev kit free for a year. All this does is make sure PS doesn't get any indie games first. Pro X1. Period. Consumers get nothing out of this.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    And just about every indie dev has received a free loaner dev kit free for a year. All this does is make sure PS doesn't get any indie games first. Pro X1. Period. Consumers get nothing out of this.
    That's how I feel about it.




  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrUe GaMeR View Post
    Yep it's pro MS and also pro consumer from the xbox view. They are simply ensuring that their customers are not screwed. It seems you want MS to feel guilty of looking out for the people who purchased their product.
    no you're looking at it from one perspective.

    If they want both and have limited resources the logical thing to do would be to go with the XB1 first since it's basically free to get started and the PS4 after they get that revenue.

    If I have two options to develop for and only resources for one, why would I choose the one with a greater introductory price (as I have shown) with my resources being limited. It makes no sense to me. And I doubt you have data that shows indie games on one console out sale the indie games on the other. So the argument of could sell more on one platform is useless.
    if you think introductory price is the only financial issue an indie developer has to endure then you don't know much about development.

    and it doesn't make sense to release it on X1 first because X1 is not a straightforward setup like the PS4 is. it hurts consumers/developers because if it's going to take longer to make the game for the X1 (which it likely will in most cases) then they have to wait for X1 to be done first and it may be too late by then (strategically) to release the game.

    there were plenty of games last gen that came out later on the PS3 because it was just not feasible to release it earlier...and some games were released a year after...which means that if Sony had this clause, they would've had to wait another year to get everything out the door...that's not pro anything except MS like F34R said. that hurts the consumer (in this case, PS users) and it hurts the developer which should be obvious at this point why.

    On what basis are you alluding to that it will continue after the first year?
    again, they have two options to go, either never release it on the X1 or have enough resources/team/time to get it finished on both OR just on X1 (which isn't better). I'm sure "some" will still be making the choice to go with the PS4 (after the first year) as it would likely be cheaper overall.

    I would think the people who would choose the PS4 over X1 in this case would either be very new with little budget, maybe their game is ambitious (so it might need more power than X1 would give in raw terms) or they just don't want to wait longer to release their game, they want to release it by a certain date.

    So no, i don't think that problem will magically disappear as you're suggesting it. it will probably lessen because X1 will have enough user base to justify the extra costs but it isn't going to go away. it didn't for the PS3 either last generation.

    EDIT: you should change your user name to "TrUe XbOx-OnLy GaMer" just for the sake of keeping things accurate.
    Last edited by Omar; 03-07-2014 at 19:21.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    I don't see it as ensuring their customers aren't screwed. If I only develop the game for the PS4, then their customers are getting screwed because I can't then port the game over to the XB1.
    If you only develop a game for the PS4, you had no intention of releasing it for the XB1 anyway since you know the parameters of releasing a game on the XB1.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    If I have limited resources, I'm going to go with the platform that has the higher userbase first. You keep doubting if anyone has data, but don't provide anything of the sort either.
    Keep doubting if anyone has data...?

    Post #25 was the first time I used the word data. So I don't know how I can keep doubting people if I haven't even been asking.

    Besides that statement was rhetorical. No one has that data. So why did I say it? To cut off a potential argument that you could make that an indie developer would choose one over the other based on potential sales.


    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    You have data that shows indie games on the XB1 outsell the PS4? No. The arguments can be flipped either way.
    yep flipped, cancel each other out. Moving on.

    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    With a higher install base, you have more customers you can reach. That is pure fact.
    True, you have more reach.

    To bad it's not that black and white though. Put in context and that fact turns gray.

    So what's that context.

    Who the $#@! is buying.

    Wii customers were not buying games. Less games being made.

    Android far exceeds iOS in install base yet apps still come out first for iOS. Why is that? Android developers have more customers they can reach. So why?

    Oh, android people don't buy $#@!; at least compared to iOS users.

    That more reach then inches towards the who cares line.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrUe GaMeR View Post
    If you only develop a game for the PS4, you had no intention of releasing it for the XB1 anyway since you know the parameters of releasing a game on the XB1.
    well, yeah, after you realized that it wasn't worth it to you because of the stupid clause. otherwise, who knows but definitely a chance rather than no chance.

    Keep doubting if anyone has data...?

    Post #25 was the first time I used the word data. So I don't know how I can keep doubting people if I haven't even been asking.

    Besides that statement was rhetorical. No one has that data. So why did I say it? To cut off a potential argument that you could make that an indie developer would choose one over the other based on potential sales.
    you missed that part where F34R posted that PS4 is selling more at this moment.

    True, you have more reach.

    To bad it's not that black and white though. Put in context and that fact turns gray.

    So what's that context.

    Who the $#@! is buying.

    Wii customers were not buying games. Less games being made.

    Android far exceeds iOS in install base yet apps still come out first for iOS. Why is that? Android developers have more customers they can reach. So why?

    Oh, android people don't buy $#@!; at least compared to iOS users.

    That more reach then inches towards the who cares line.
    point? you just said yourself that both userbases respond the same in sales...that was your own argument. now you're implying that we don't know if higher base wouldn't potentially mean high sales? lol...stick with your argument at least. stop flip flopping.

    there's no reason to believe that one base wouldn't buy a game over the other...

  8. #33
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrUe GaMeR View Post
    True, you have more reach.

    To bad it's not that black and white though. Put in context and that fact turns gray.

    So what's that context.

    Who the $#@! is buying.

    Wii customers were not buying games. Less games being made.

    Android far exceeds iOS in install base yet apps still come out first for iOS. Why is that? Android developers have more customers they can reach. So why?

    Oh, android people don't buy $#@!; at least compared to iOS users.

    That more reach then inches towards the who cares line.
    Dude, you are just purposely putting in a context that is wrong. If anything, PS4 has seeing bigger software sales overall. Therefore, what you said is completely wrong context.

    You do not have argument here. Your main tactic is just spinning argument.

    PS4 has far bigger reach. It is black and white. Sorry man. No amount of spinning will change that.
    Last edited by AttackTitan; 03-07-2014 at 22:28.

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