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  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    So why do all the devs use 4.5gb of memory?
    Sure we all know about that extra operating system based memory...but devs aren't using it.

    GDDR5 helps on the GPU, it means jack all to the CPU, other than some latency.

    I'm still waiting for a developer slide showing anything more than a smidgen over 4.5gb used by the PS4. We have had two now, Killzone and The Order. Now you can say what ever you want, but the proof is in the pudding and the pudding recipe says 4.5gb.
    and who cares about the CPU? when did that ever help? other than help the GPU anyway? which we realized, wasn't a great idea...

    Naughty Dog: PS4 has 5GB RAM - 6 cores available to devs


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    yeah but who said that or implied that? if you can come up with a more specific statement...like a quote that made you think that it "may" have meant that...go ahead.

    just seems like a lot of personal feelings at this point from your end.
    I dont think so. If I thought I had that same problem I would definitely use the ignore feature. It's definitely most personal feelings. I think it silly that to dwell on something so small.

  3. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    and who cares about the CPU? when did that ever help? other than help the GPU anyway? which we realized, wasn't a great idea...

    Naughty Dog: PS4 has 5GB RAM - 6 cores available to devs
    Who cares about the CPU? LOL. Thats' what makes games.
    And as I said we all know about that extra 512mb, no one seems to be using it, although you Naughty Dog will likely.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-03-2014 at 01:21.

  4. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Who cares about the CPU? LOL. Thats' what makes games.
    no, you misunderstand. when was the last time a faster CPU actually made a difference? what did Cell do for CPU calculations on the PS3? ZILCH. The only good thing that came out of it was that it actually supported GPU tasks.
    And as I said we all know about that extra 512mb, no one seems to be using it, although you Naughty Dog will likely.
    no the extra is on top of that 5GB. it's like that entire discussion we had last time was just pointless...so why should i continue now?

  5. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I dont think so. If I thought I had that same problem I would definitely use the ignore feature. It's definitely most personal feelings. I think it silly that to dwell on something so small.
    except, you brought it up. we are just trying to ask you where and who said it. OR to be even more fair to you, implied. no answer.

    it's in your head.

  6. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    no, you misunderstand. when was the last time a faster CPU actually made a difference? what did Cell do for CPU calculations on the PS3?
    ZILCH. The only good thing that came out of it was that it actually supported GPU tasks.
    Yes It was too busy helping the GPU.
    But again, there are certainly things that cant be done without a faster processor, but mainly its about memory, when you talk about having larger worlds.

    no the extra is on top of that 5GB. it's like that entire discussion we had last time was just pointless...so why should i continue now?
    And its "about 5gbs" not "5gbs". I believe the highest Ive seen so far is 4736mb. And that was in a demo environment.


    34:44

    Sorry bud it AINT 5 gb.



    Sum total 4426mb+code.
    If I had to hazard a guess it probably 4.75gb.

    Either way, both systems are within stones throw of each other in terms of memory.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-03-2014 at 01:32.

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  8. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Yes It was too busy helping the GPU.
    But again, there are certainly things that cant be done without a faster processor, but mainly its about memory, when you talk about having larger worlds.
    except you don't have an example of what a faster CPU would do. before you say something back, do realize that i understand that CPUs are important but compared to a GPU advantage or RAM advantage, they provide zilch, i saw "no" benefit from the Cell. we had all been had. it was a fluke. just like the dreamcast thinking. it wasn't thinking. it was just a dumb CPU like any other.

    And its "about 5gbs" not "5gbs". I believe the highest Ive seen so far is 4736mb. And that was in a demo environment.


    34:44

    Sorry bud it AINT 5 gb.



    Sum total 4426mb+code.
    If I had to hazard a guess it probably 4.75gb.
    i just posted a link by ND stating that it was 5GB. the game doesn't have to equal the total amount available lol...

    even if you want to interpret it that way, that's fine but do realize that you're comparing two very different types of RAM at a face value...which is hard to fathom considering you're in this field or were.

  9. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    except you don't have an example of what a faster CPU would do. before you say something back, do realize that i understand that CPUs are important but compared to a GPU advantage or RAM advantage, they provide zilch, i saw "no" benefit from the Cell. we had all been had. it was a fluke. just like the dreamcast thinking. it wasn't thinking. it was just a dumb CPU like any other.



    i just posted a link by ND stating that it was 5GB. the game doesn't have to equal the total amount available lol...

    even if you want to interpret it that way, that's fine but do realize that you're comparing two very different types of RAM at a face value...which is hard to fathom considering you're in this field or were.
    The link you posted was to this exact talk, Dual shocker reported it as 5gb where Gregory says "about 5gb of memory", just as aside, I kinda worship this guy, hes written a very good book on game engine design.

    The ram speed only comes into play when your using it on the GPU, the CPU cant feed it that fast, nor can even the GPU render to it that fast outside of 64 bit textures, normally its capped at 102gb/s. It can use compute to it as well however, that's the big unkown at this point, if you want to put faith in that, that's fine, but we really don't know how that will play out.

  10. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    The link you posted was to this exact talk, Dual shocker reported it as 5gb where Gregory says "about 5gb of memory", just as aside, I kinda worship this guy, hes written a very good book on game engine design.

    The ram speed only comes into play when your using it on the GPU, the CPU cant feed it that fast, nor can even the GPU render to it that fast outside of 64 bit textures, normally its capped at 102gb/s. It can use compute to it as well however, that's the big unkown at this point, if you want to put faith in that, that's fine, but we really don't know how that will play out.
    surely there are more uses for a faster RAM in bigger games.

  11. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    I think only a few of you took it a certain way. After I've explained what I meant and still get accused, there isn't much I can do after that.
    Sure.

    But if you're completely honest though; you're not gonna be surprised or shouldn't be hurt as to why people react. unless you really do like the provoked reactions.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian View Post
    Sure.

    But if you're completely honest though; you're not gonna be surprised or shouldn't be hurt as to why people react. unless you really do like the provoked reactions.
    i don't think he means to provoke...i think he truly does believe in everything he says even if there's no proof or basis to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    i don't think he means to provoke...i think he truly does believe in everything he says even if there's no proof or basis to it.
    Maybe. I am just trying to figure it out.

    I don't think anyone should get offended as that is not my intent.

    This means that actual personal insults will be dealt with as normal.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    surely there are more uses for a faster RAM in bigger games.
    Not really, you still can only store and work on an instruction at once, and if you cache it's doing its job, its far faster than memory access anyway. CPu's dont use huge amounts of memory bandwidth, hell bus speeds on main boards is relatively slow. PCI-E 2 was only 16gb/s

    Both XBO and PS4 have nothing above 40gb/s speed from CPU to main memory.

    Its far more important that you don't run out of memory. The more memory the more data you game store about said large worlds.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-03-2014 at 02:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian View Post
    Sure.

    But if you're completely honest though; you're not gonna be surprised or shouldn't be hurt as to why people react. unless you really do like the provoked reactions.
    I'm not hurt. I've been here since 2008 and my posting habits have been pretty much the same way since day 1. I have no control over the way someone is gonna react to things I post . It's not on me if someone takes something too personal or read too much into a mere simple comment. I'm not gonna go around defending every little comment I make. I would much rather discuss whatever the topic is but somehow it always seems to go off trail.

  16. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    So why do all the devs use 4.5gb of memory?
    Sure we all know about that extra operating system based memory...but devs aren't using it.

    GDDR5 helps on the GPU, it means jack all to the CPU, other than some latency.

    I'm still waiting for a developer slide showing anything more than a smidgen over 4.5gb used by the PS4. We have had two now, Killzone and The Order. Now you can say what ever you want, but the proof is in the pudding and the pudding recipe says 4.5gb.

    To be honest though, how many developer break downs have we seen that has RAM usage breakdowns?
    Shadowfall is at 4.7GB, that not more than a smidgen? What defines a smidgen in RAM usage? :P

    1886 isn't using the theoretical 4.5, they are at 4.3-4.4 at the moment.

  17. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    To be honest though, how many developer break downs have we seen that has RAM usage breakdowns?
    Shadowfall is at 4.7GB, that not more than a smidgen? What defines a smidgen in RAM usage? :P

    1886 isn't using the theoretical 4.5, they are at 4.3-4.4 at the moment.
    none that I've seen. I would love to see it though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    To be honest though, how many developer break downs have we seen that has RAM usage breakdowns?
    Shadowfall is at 4.7GB, that not more than a smidgen? What defines a smidgen in RAM usage? :P

    1886 isn't using the theoretical 4.5, they are at 4.3-4.4 at the moment.
    1886 doesn't include code, and yes smidgen would be give or take 256 mb, although as I said my guess would be around 4.75gb.

  19. #343
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    Not to be the wet blanket, but what is proven by saying the differences between 4 or about 5gbs? Especially if the baseline are games like infamous, killzone etc (i mean technically - we're not discussing the subjective nature of enjoying each of those titles).

    Meaning, providing that devs are outputting conisstent, hq games, whats up?

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    1886 doesn't include code, and yes smidgen would be give or take 256 mb, although as I said my guess would be around 4.75gb.
    We may not see games using the full amount of available RAM till 2nd or 3rd round of games. Haven't some devs been saying they are actually having trouble filling everything up? That might not actually be that unreasonable as you cant just say "auto fill RAM", the assets actually have to be created which might not be financially viable or even required for a game.



    And Sub, there is the PDF Mynd linked before about The Order 1886 and I'll post the link to Shadow Fall breakdown

    http://www.guerrilla-games.com/prese...Postmortem.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian View Post
    Not to be the wet blanket, but what is proven by saying the differences between 4 or about 5gbs? Especially if the baseline are games like infamous, killzone etc (i mean technically - we're not discussing the subjective nature of enjoying each of those titles).

    Meaning, providing that devs are outputting conisstent, hq games, whats up?
    Actually the point wasn't the exact amount, the point was that any difference in available memory is minimal on these consoles.
    In truth, my guess would be, even if one had a big advantage, the reserves are such that the other would just release some to devs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Actually the point wasn't the exact amount, the point was that any difference in available memory is minimal on these consoles.
    In truth, my guess would be, even if one had a big advantage, the reserves are such that the other would just release some to devs.
    Right.

    That's fine then. I just thought it pointless arguing what the final amount is.

    So as per your last point, is that "secret sauce" you're referring to?

    When do you think it will be "unleashed by MS"? I guess we'll hear a collective champagne bottle uncorking won't we?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian View Post
    Right.

    That's fine then. I just thought it pointless arguing what the final amount is.

    So as per your last point, is that "secret sauce" you're referring to?

    When do you think it will be "unleashed by MS"? I guess we'll hear a collective champagne bottle uncorking won't we?
    There is no secret sauce, on either system.

  24. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    There is no secret sauce, on either system.
    What is meant when you said making available? That's basically what I was referring to.

    the reserves are such that the other would just release some to devs.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian View Post
    What is meant when you said making available? That's basically what I was referring to.
    Unlocking extra RAM Im guessing. extra 512mb or 1gb could go a long way

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  27. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian View Post
    What is meant when you said making available? That's basically what I was referring to.
    Oh just shrinking the o/s reserve. Much like the PS3 did last gen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Unlocking extra RAM Im guessing. extra 512mb or 1gb could go a long way
    Exactly.

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