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  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Oh just shrinking the o/s reserve. Much like the PS3 did last gen.



    Exactly.
    PS4 has 3 gig or something large reserved for OS. and 2 CPU cores, so rumored.

    Not sure why you make it so that it is only MS that can gain advantage.

    There doesnt seem to be any secret sauce that can say it could reduce the gap in any meaningful amount. There are certainly things that could improve X1, but obviously there are also many things that will improve PS4 as well.
    Last edited by AttackTitan; 04-03-2014 at 05:25.

  2. #352
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    You might be reading into it a bit much, both systems could unlock RAM. Personally I didn't read Mynds comments as being slanted to the X1, though I can see how one might.

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  4. #353
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    Here is the point to all this last 4 or 5 pages or back and forth. According to "some people on this forum" MS is the only one that can improve, will get a massive boost from DX12, Sony is just going to stand there and wait to get caught. Sony Doesn't have a chance. In my best Bill Paxton voice, Its over man, Sony's screwed. They just can't compete with the Might MS

  5. #354
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    Cyclops
    http://www.gamepur.com/files/imagepi...on-slide-5.jpg

    From MS's, presentation the most of the benefit is towards PC. It is giving "console like API" to PC. They already said such thing as low overhead and etc is already on X1 meaning you wouldnt benefit from low overhead API of dx12 on X1.

    Especially now with the information regarding g-buffer being debunked, the whole thing kind of blew over. There isn't much argument on how dx12 can close the gap. Again, PC is one benefiting from all this from getting features of console.
    Last edited by AttackTitan; 04-03-2014 at 05:41.

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    Sorry Titan, I was trying to be sarcastic.

  7. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    PS4 has 3 gig or something large reserved for OS. and 2 CPU cores, so rumored.

    Not sure why you make it so that it is only MS that can gain advantage.
    I didnt, I wasn't referring to either as having a huge advantage.

    Looks like it maybe 4.5gb after all BTW:



    I wonder if that flexible memory is the paged o/s memory?



    This is a good example of what the PS4 can do, vs what MS would have to worry about all the 16, and 16f buffers would have to fit in the esram for speed performance. The RGBA8 buffers could sit in ddr3.

    A 16f (64 bit) buffer is 15.8mb!
    Last edited by mynd; 04-03-2014 at 06:51.
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  8. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclops View Post
    Sorry Titan, I was trying to be sarcastic.
    I know. I was just trying to bright the thread back to topic.

  9. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I didnt, I wasn't referring to either as having a huge advantage.

    Looks like it maybe 4.5gb after all BTW:


    I wonder if that flexible memory is the paged o/s memory?
    It was my understanding that 4.5 gig was without the flexible memory and it was 5 gig total with flexible. I swear I heard some official statement from Sony regarding this.

    I don't even know why even need 3.5 gig for their OS to begin with.

  10. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    It was my understanding that 4.5 gig was without the flexible memory and it was 5 gig total with flexible. I swear I heard some official statement from Sony regarding this.

    I don't even know why even need 3.5 gig for their OS to begin with.
    They don't, It's just being held back, OS footprint is probably less than 512MB. Keeping RAM reserved to make sure they have enough to implement new features in the future without being hobbled like PS3 on ram where they didn't think ahead and were unable to implement things like cross voice chat. And forces devs to be more efficient with ram and at the same time.

    They will likely release 1 or 1.5gb 2 years once they have implemented features like media playback and instant suspend/resume, Morpheus, IPTV. And other stuff we can't even imagine.
    You can't be serious with the 30 megabyte signature... ~ Staff

    Maths is biased! It keeps telling me the PS4 is 50% more powerful than XboxOne!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I didnt, I wasn't referring to either as having a huge advantage.

    Looks like it maybe 4.5gb after all BTW:



    I wonder if that flexible memory is the paged o/s memory?



    This is a good example of what the PS4 can do, vs what MS would have to worry about all the 16, 16f and 32f buffers would have to fit in the esram for speed performance. The RGBA8 buffers could sit in ddr3.

    A 16f (64 bit) buffer is 15.8mb!
    Errrrr, link to the presentation please :P


    Edit: Got it....
    Last edited by Sajuuk Khar; 04-03-2014 at 06:48.

  12. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post

    I don't even know why even need 3.5 gig for their OS to begin with.
    The good news is it will never go up, it can only can go down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Errrrr, link to the presentation please :P
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Postmortem.pdf

    But it seems to be down...

    You can see some of it here:

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04/...our-jaws-drop/
    Last edited by mynd; 04-03-2014 at 06:49.
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  13. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    The good news is it will never go up, it can only can go down.



    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Postmortem.pdf

    But it seems to be down...

    You can see some of it here:

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04/...our-jaws-drop/
    Yeah inspected element to see where you were linking from :P

    Fairly impressive breakdown. Does solidify that 4.5GB is the base line for RAM on PS4, though they actually almost use 4.6GB. Good to see compute being used too. Those render target sizes...that single memory pool really allows deferred rendering to shine. 32MB ESRAM would have to do....8 full tiles at least to render a frame using those techniques at 1080p.

  14. #363
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    Yeah it would be, lets see 4 full 32 bit buffers, an 8 bit buffer, plus 3 64 bit buffers.

    That would be about 82mb, you might get away with 3 tiles?
    I think what you would do is do one pass with all the 32 bit buffers + stencil into ddr3, that would give 48mb to put in ESRAM...nah your $#@!ed, you couldn't do it in a pass without stalls, even 900p would max the esram.

    Key would be to try and repack you gbuffer info into 2 64 bit textures, the rest in RGBA8 (32bits ) and two pass, once to the esram, once to the ddr3, then your final assemble.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-03-2014 at 07:46.
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  15. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Yeah it would be, lets see 4 full 32 bit buffers, an 8 bit buffer, plus 3 64 bit buffers.

    That would be about 82mb, you might get away with 3 tiles?
    I think what you would do is do one pass with all the 32 bit buffers + stencil into ddr3, that would give 48mb to put in ESRAM...nah your $#@!ed, you couldn't do it in a pass without stalls, even 900p would max the esram.

    Key would be to try and repack you gbuffer info into 2 64 bit textures, the rest in RGBA8 (32bits ) and two pass, once to the esram, once to the ddr3, then your final assemble.
    That's still a friggen tight fit. 400KB breathing room and thats only if the full 32MB is free for games

  16. #365
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    lol like i said mynd, this is pointless because i have a quote from a developer specifically stating how GDDR5 RAM is great for big worlds. hopefully Sony focuses more on open world so my point can be proven further (further since SS proves it already). the ball is in MS' court with Crackdown 3.

  17. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    lol like i said mynd, this is pointless because i have a quote from a developer specifically stating how GDDR5 RAM is great for big worlds. hopefully Sony focuses more on open world so my point can be proven further (further since SS proves it already). the ball is in MS' court with Crackdown 3.
    Or Watch Dogs, or Elder Scrolls, or Witcher 3, or The division? Right?

    Seriously, open world games aren't the domain of fast memory.



    Thats not that big.
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  18. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Or Watch Dogs, or Elder Scrolls, or Witcher 3, or The division? Right?

    Seriously, open world games aren't the domain of fast memory.



    Thats not that big.
    I would imagine if you are crossing the world very fast, it would matter.

  19. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    I would imagine if you are crossing the world very fast, it would matter.
    Could do if you streaming from hard drive I guess, but not purely on memory, you already travel the scene 30 times a second.
    But then your hard drive doesn't perform at 176gb/s either.
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  20. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Could do if you streaming from hard drive I guess, but not purely on memory, you already travel the scene 30 times a second.
    But then your hard drive doesn't perform at 176gb/s either.
    Ya. I think if you are moving slow enough small and slow ram can handle it no matter how big the world is.

    But if you are moving fast, slow and small ram would not work well to its advantage i would imagine.

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