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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Hmmmm
    as far as how hard it is to develop for. he was using the PS3 as a reference point, he wasn't actually comparing how difficult X1 is compared to the PS3.

    Yeah uhhh thats what I said. I wasn't denying any of that.
    no, you were downplaying the X1 hardware limitations by not stating the overall limitation ESRAM poses, you know, the big elephant in the room. it's not just the 1080p it will be struggling with. that was my point.

    but since we are comparing the two now, X1 has a huge bottleneck regardless and pretty much should be comparable to how the PS3 had to deal with resources. PS3's resources were cut by quite a lot when you didn't use the Cell very well...ESRAM is akin to Cell in this situation.


    Go order it for PC and see how far you get..
    oh you haven't heard? http://www.gamespot.com/forums/pc-ma...r-pc-29406229/

    likely will come for PC sooner or later.

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Oh lets not be that dramatic, I don't think it's hard to develop for, its just harder to get 1080p out of. The PS3 was way harder to develop for than any of these systems, its not like the Xbox One is foreign tech, its just a less powerful GPU. Its the same CPU and GPU architecture, power levels may vary but it not like the GPU is foreign. The same CPU code and same shader coder can be written for both systems. Where it really differs is memory architecture and aforementioned power of GPU. But compared to the PS3? Hell it dealt with foreign CPU code, messed up memory architecture and a less powerful GPU. I think devs would prefer the current situation over last gen. Depends on 1/ How easy any extra development was to implement 2/ When it was introduced. Considering the PS3 and 360 version were in development before the PS4 and XBO where any where near solidified spec, thats a long bow to draw that they somehow "planned it all along". It's an effect, not the ground basis of the framework at any rate. I'm sure they could switch various effects on and off at will given thats what a framework engine is designed to do.
    Not being dramatic. The meager amount of esram just isnt enough to adequately compensate for the bandwidth defecient DDR3 and the Xbone GPU is considerably weaker than the PS4. So its less powerful and harder to develop for. The esram bottleneck is a big problem.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 03-09-2014 at 10:51.

  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    as far as how hard it is to develop for. he was using the PS3 as a reference point, he wasn't actually comparing how difficult X1 is compared to the PS3.

    no, you were downplaying the X1 hardware limitations by not stating the overall limitation ESRAM poses, you know, the big elephant in the room. it's not just the 1080p it will be struggling with. that was my point.
    In a reply about comparing the difficulty of the PS3 compared to the Xbox one.
    I wasn't "downplaying anything", why would I go into detail about the memory architecture in a general response, I covered the fact that there was memory architecture differences, why would I go into complete dissection of the system again, I didn't expand on the PS3 memory architecture either. I didn't expand on anything. It was a quick response to the comment he made.

    but since we are comparing the two now, X1 has a huge bottleneck regardless and pretty much should be comparable to how the PS3 had to deal with resources. PS3's resources were cut by quite a lot when you didn't use the Cell very well...ESRAM is akin to Cell in this situation.
    Its a similar bottleneck to the 360 setup.
    I'm out, you guys take the cake you really do, lets get $#@!ing ancy because someone said the PS3 was more difficult to develop for than the Xbox one.
    It was deal with as you all like to say.
    oh you haven't heard? http://www.gamespot.com/forums/pc-ma...r-pc-29406229/

    likely will come for PC sooner or later.

    He wants to a PC version of Phantom Pain, knowing Kojima he will repackage the game as one complete game for PC after he's finished development on PP.

    If you really want to know what I think, I'll tell you.

    Phantom Pain WILL have full real-time weather (confirmed), it will run at 30fps on next gen consoles (my conjecture).
    When he did the port of GZ he had spare cycles left over and they implemented the realtime atmospheric scattering on the PS4 version because they could.

    He didn't have to but he did.
    Thank you Kojima.

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    How do you know that? You have no idea when the dynamic sky was implemented.l]
    And neither do you. So why are you acting like your opinion is fact and its everybody else who's speculating?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Not being dramatic. The meager amount of esram just isnt enough to adequately compensate for the bandwidth defecient DDR3 and the Xbone GPU is considerably weaker than the PS4. So its less powerful and harder to develop for. The esram bottleneck is a big problem.
    You mean at 1080p.
    System seems pretty easy to develop for otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    And neither do you. So why are you acting like your opinion is fact and its everybody else who's speculating?
    Didn't know my opinion was "fact".
    I sincerely apologize for that.

    Argue among yourself, I'm out, its not like you guys $#@!ing read half of what I write anyway.

    Last edited by mynd; 03-09-2014 at 11:04.

  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You mean at 1080p. System seems pretty easy to develop for otherwise.
    As long as your not trying to make the Xbone version equal to the PS4 version then maybe. Otherwise the esram bottleneck just keeps coming back to haunt you. And that certainly makes it hard to develop for.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 03-09-2014 at 11:16.

  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    In a reply about comparing the difficulty of the PS3 compared to the Xbox one.
    I wasn't "downplaying anything", why would I go into detail about the memory architecture in a general response, I covered the fact that there was memory architecture differences, why would I go into complete dissection of the system again, I didn't expand on the PS3 memory architecture either. I didn't expand on anything. It was a quick response to the comment he made.
    Let me make it easier for you. He made a "general" comment about the X1 being "harder to develop for" as opposed to the PS4. You rebutted him by saying that it's not harder, it's just the 1080p that is harder, in some odd context, a comparison he did not actually make (X1 vs PS3), you were correct but your statement overall was inaccurate because your comment was contextual when his point was broader and general and did not directly compare the PS3 hardware architecture to the X1's, you did.

    Yes, compared to the PS3 directly, X1 is not harder to develop for...but if we're talking about this generation, it is just as hard compared to the PS4 as PS3 was compared to the 360. this was my statement to help you realize that it's not just a 1080p issue...it's a resource issue.

    Its a similar bottleneck to the 360 setup.
    again, you're twisting the context. Yes, you're right, it's a similar setup and a similar bottleneck, but compared to the PS4, it is definitely still a big bottleneck resource-wise. the games are going to be made for both platforms and X1 is going to struggle each time the consoles are being pushed beyond a certain point.

    from the context of resources available readily, it is similarly as difficult to develop for as the PS3 was as opposed to the 360.

    I'm out, you guys take the cake you really do, lets get $#@!ing ancy because someone said the PS3 was more difficult to develop for than the Xbox one.
    It was deal with as you all like to say.
    you're getting upset for no reason. i never once said that X1 is as hard to develop for as the PS3...in fact, you're the only person who is arguing about that. Neither crow, nor I said that it was.

    i made the point that resource-wise, they are about the same it seems in difficulty because you're always going to be starved on the X1. this was what crow meant. you're taking it somewhere no one else took but yourself.

    He wants to a PC version of Phantom Pain, knowing Kojima he will repackage the game as one complete game for PC after he's finished development on PP.

    If you really want to know what I think, I'll tell you.

    Phantom Pain WILL have full real-time weather (confirmed), it will run at 30fps on next gen consoles (my conjecture).
    When he did the port of GZ he had spare cycles left over and they implemented the realtime atmospheric scattering on the PS4 version because they could.

    He didn't have to but he did.
    Thank you Kojima.
    yes, implemented, not necessarily exclusively developed for as you were implying the entire time...with taking the "special treatment" comment by kojima to fit your argument. he was speaking PR, of course he's not going to say that we just put it in there...he's going to say something that will sell his game. that does not confirm that Kojima made that feature just because PS4 had more leg room.

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  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You mean at 1080p. System seems pretty easy to develop for otherwise. Didn't know my opinion was "fact". I sincerely apologize for that. Argue among yourself, I'm out, its not like you guys $#@!ing read half of what I write anyway.
    Lmao! Dude, why are you so upset? Hillarious. This thread rocks. Anyway , I'm off to bed I guess.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 03-09-2014 at 11:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Lmao! Dude, why are you so upset? Hillarious. This thread rocks. Anyway , I'm off to bed I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    And neither do you. So why are you acting like your opinion is fact and its everybody else who's speculating?


    You guys choose to believe he meant to implement it on all versions but opt out, I choose to believe he opt in on it when he saw he had extra horsepower spare...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You mean at 1080p.
    System seems pretty easy to develop for otherwise.
    that is a lie.

    Argue among yourself, I'm out, its not like you guys $#@!ing read half of what I write anyway.

    really? i thought i summarized the entire thing pretty well to take out any confusion.

  13. #61
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    The PS4 version looks much better and is noticeable and that's all there is to it. It's quite the bummer they couldn't squeeze that same thing out of the Xbox One, oh well. At least people that buy it on the PS4 will have a much nicer looking game, and a better experience overall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    It's quite the bummer they couldn't squeeze that same thing out of the Xbox One, oh well.
    they can't...at any given time, they will always be able to get a lot more out of the PS4 than the X1. if they wanted to try and get the X1 version on part, they'd probably need another year. they'd probably need to redo the code just for the X1.
    Last edited by Omar; 03-09-2014 at 20:03.

  15. #63
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    I know that, I was just saying. But for your comment, they would have to remake the game from the ground up and probably optimize their engine and even in that case I doubt it would look better anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    I know that, I was just saying. But for your comment, they would have to remake the game from the ground up and probably optimize their engine and even in that case I doubt it would look better anyway.
    Yeah I think the PS4 having better multiplats is a trend that will continue throughout this generation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    And neither do you. So why are you acting like your opinion is fact and its everybody else who's speculating?
    BOOM!

    Keep telling it like it is crow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    And neither do you. So why are you acting like your opinion is fact and its everybody else who's speculating?
    BOOM!

    Keep telling it like it is crow.

  19. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demi_God View Post
    I know that, I was just saying. But for your comment, they would have to remake the game from the ground up and probably optimize their engine and even in that case I doubt it would look better anyway.
    they don't necessarily need to make the game from the ground up...because that would imply that they'd have to redo the engine to fit the X1 hardware...but in that case, you would see a much better looking game.

    the problem isn't that X1 can't achieve this...i'm sure it can 2x than this somewhere down the line. the point is that right now developers don't care to extract the power out of it...especially since it's a multiplat (cross-gen at that).

    they would just need to rebuild the game code and process it in a way where they could fully utilize the ESRAM. but i don't know if it would still get them 1080p...at this point, i just don't think X1 is ever going to be able to do 60fps and 1080p in a game that is pushing the consoles.

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