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    DF: Can a 500 PC beat new consoles?

    It's often been said that both next-gen consoles are effectively based on mid-range PC technology, and as our recent tests indicate, matching or even exceeding current Xbox One or PS4 performance with modest PC components doesn't seem to be too difficult. But can we go one better? Can we build a PC that provides a quantifiably better, truly transformative experience? And can we do it at with a competitive budget?
    Source: Digital Foundry

    As always a good Sunday read from digital foundry.


    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.
    Last edited by BBK..; 03-09-2014 at 10:15.

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    Nope. And it will only get worse with time.

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    On the flip side, the new console raise the minimum bar and as pure speculation on my part, allows for more optimization on PC specs, as less time is spent on PS4 and Xb .

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    Even if it were possible, it wouldn't change the fact that the PC gets the $#@! end of exclusives. Exclusive titles will forever make the home consoles more enjoyable for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    Source: Digital Foundry

    As always a good Sunday read from digital foundry.


    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.
    I enjoy these types of comparisons as it shows there is a bit of an advantage to consoles for maybe a year or 2, or at least it isn't a complete win for the PC.

    What really needs to be do with theses sort of comparisons/competitions is build that pc and see how well it ages with out updating the hard ware at all. So in 4 or 5 years time see how it compares to the consoles at that point in their lives and how it handles multiplatform releases.

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    Yeah it's not a complete win. Obviously bests it in a few areas though. I would've changed a few of the bits of hardware that they used which would give it the multiplatform edge for at least 2/3 years and by that stage another 300 you would've saved by cheaper games and not paying to play online you could pay for a mid cycle upgrade.


    Was still a good read though. Just shows how underpowered the new consoles are compared to ones of the past


    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal View Post
    Even if it were possible, it wouldn't change the fact that the PC gets the $#@! end of exclusives. Exclusive titles will forever make the home consoles more enjoyable for me.
    Man, this, this and this. I've always seen PCs as fancy 3rd party boxes. Of course I know there are many many many exclusives on PC but for the most part they are obscure to me. I couldn#t live without my inGamouses, Uncharteds, TLOUs and the like.

    Still, an interesting look at what#s possible at that price point.

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    That's true. Console gaming does get some awesome exclusives but then so does the PC although not of the same budget.

    Though you could argue the games on PC aren't the same as their console counter parts. A fully modded Skyrim for example only shares the same name as the console version but the game itself is a complete different beast.

    This generation for me will be PC only until a few gems drop on the PS4 and until a substantial Xbone price drop before I get either console. There seems to be more third party games I'm eager to play than either platform has exclusives. The only game I feel desperate to buy ya console for currently is Destiny and maybe the new metal gear




    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.

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    yeah, it is all about the games available. The Sony first party stuff is what always gets me. But seeing more and more multiplats available on PC and that is good. Not too long ago, everyone was saying PC gaming was dead. Hardly the case anymore (thank you, Steam). Glad PC gaming is thriving again.

    My kids are all about the mods on their PCs, BBK. They've added so much to Skyrim....it is just crazy the stuff they can do. lol
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    I wanna kill all PC gamers, PCs are for working! not for gaming! im fuming my ps4 isnt as powerful as them!

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    Yup. As soon as either console has a few games I'm dying to play I'm sticking to my PC. Infamous looks like the first really good PS4 title but not quite good enough to justify the cost of a PS4. TitanFall was the Xbones ace up it's sleeve but it's on PC where it'll obviously be the definitive version


    PC has too many advantages (for me) to use any other platform as my main gaming option. I prefer the input options, I prefer the price of games, the open nature of the platform and I love good looking games with high framerates. The last part is the defining reason why I chose PC. Though not everyone will agree.

    On the start console gaming offers an amazing amount for your money vs spending a big chunk on the PC but over the years PCs work out cheaper




    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    Yeah it's not a complete win. Obviously bests it in a few areas though. I would've changed a few of the bits of hardware that they used which would give it the multiplatform edge for at least 2/3 years and by that stage another 300 you would've saved by cheaper games and not paying to play online you could pay for a mid cycle upgrade.


    Was still a good read though. Just shows how underpowered the new consoles are compared to ones of the past


    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.
    game prices being low on PC vs consoles would hold true for the most part but unlike on the PC, i can resell games on my PS4. and they're blu-ray so they don't get scratched...you can also buy games cheap as well (as i have been on my PS3).

    you also pay for online servers on PC. like you do on PS4, just that it's way cheaper on the PS4 because it's a combined deal, on PC you have to buy a server for each game or play on other people's servers...i would still take the PC option but we were talking about cost.

    on PS+, you also get $#@! ton worth of games...so not only the online pays for itself, i have stopped buying games because i get to try so many good ones. not to mention the discounted games on PSN due to PS+.

    so yes, i would still say that console gamers pay more in the end but that premium price also is running the industry and making developers bring us more awesome games.

    actually, i beg to differ about the consoles being underpowered compared to last ones...because we have never seen consoles running games that are so close to the PC counterparts. Remember Oblivion? was nothing close to the PC version.

    i also don't think it's as simple as changing your video card because everything moves so quickly in PC world that it'd probably be more worth it to build another PC and keep the other one for something else.

    that's the reality, what DF is giving is in an unpractical world.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    Yup. As soon as either console has a few games I'm dying to play I'm sticking to my PC. Infamous looks like the first really good PS4 title but not quite good enough to justify the cost of a PS4. TitanFall was the Xbones ace up it's sleeve but it's on PC where it'll obviously be the definitive version

    PC has too many advantages (for me) to use any other platform as my main gaming option. I prefer the input options, I prefer the price of games, the open nature of the platform and I love good looking games with high framerates. The last part is the defining reason why I chose PC. Though not everyone will agree.

    On the start console gaming offers an amazing amount for your money vs spending a big chunk on the PC but over the years PCs work out cheaper

    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.
    preference. there are just as many advantages on the consoles as it would be on PCs...and i can argue more substantial advantages...which is why they're the creme of the crop of this industry.

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    [QUOTE=Sufi;6315148]game prices being low on PC vs consoles would hold true for the most part but unlike on the PC, i can resell games on my PS4. and they're blu-ray so they don't get scratched...you can also buy games cheap as well (as i have been on my PS3). [\quote] you can it cheap games on console I never said you couldn't. I'm just saying it's cheaper to buy games on PC. I could buy BF4 or TitanFall with the season passes on PC for the same cost of the game on XBone or PS4. If selling you're games is a benefit then PC won't match that, I never traded in my discs though so wasn't ever a issue for me.

    you also pay for online servers on PC. like you do on PS4, just that it's way cheaper on the PS4 because it's a combined deal, on PC you have to buy a server for each game or play on other people's servers...i would still take the PC option but we were talking about cost.
    Do I? I've not payed to play online since moving away from consoles. Not a penny. Of course I have the [b]option[\b] to rent or host my own servers but they are just options

    [b]
    on PS+, you also get $#@! ton worth of games...so not only the online pays for itself, i have stopped buying games because i get to try so many good ones. not to mention the discounted games on PSN due to PS+.[\b]

    Yes you do. Assuming you keep paying the 30 a year. I believe PS+ is much better value compared to the competition. But it's not a viable way of playing new games, for me. You will have to wait a few months before a new game comes, if it ever does. PS+ is essentially just gravy.

    [quote]
    so yes, i would still say that console gamers pay more in the end but that premium price also is running the industry and making developers bring us more awesome games.[\quote] for some of the games sure. I'm happy for you guys to pick up my tab though

    [quote]
    actually, i beg to differ about the consoles being underpowered compared to last ones...because we have never seen consoles running games that are so close to the PC counterparts. Remember Oblivion? was nothing close to the PC version. [\quote]
    The PS3 and X360 were a lot closer to a high end PC at the time than they are now. They are midrange parts in a closed environment.

    i also don't think it's as simple as changing your video card because everything moves so quickly in PC world that it'd probably be more worth it to build another PC and keep the other one for something else.
    within 3 years? Stuff doesn't get that outdated that quickly. A 300 upgrade later in that 500 PC in 3 years time would put it above and beyond what the consoles are capable of. This generation won't be like the last. I don't expect to see massive jumps later in the PS4s life as they designed it to be simpler. Those jumps will be much sooner compared to the PS3

    preference. there are just as many advantages on the consoles as it would be on PCs...and i can argue more substantial advantages...which is why they're the creme of the crop of this industry.
    That's why I always say for me. PC gaming isn't for everyone and neither is Condole gaming. Some prefer to be sat on a did, I prefer to be sat at a desk. Just for me, PC is much more suitable


    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.

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    Shouldn't the question be "Can a 350 PC beat new consoles?". I only paid 350 for my PS4 and wouldn't the PS4 be more powerful than it already is for 500?

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    Well the answer to that is no. But a PC doesn't just play games so that is reflected in the price


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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    Do I? I've not payed to play online since moving away from consoles. Not a penny. Of course I have the [b]option[\b] to rent or host my own servers but they are just options
    oh yeah i know, i meant to clarify it. on the PC, you are at the mercy of others buying a dedicated server. sort of like BF3 on PS3/360 did.

    PC gamers won't have official dedicated servers. why i said that i'd still pick PC over consoles in that category is because we don't get much choice - e.g. PC gamers get plethora of options on their servers, how to run it, what to lock/unlock, i'm sure insane amount of options to pick and modify their server with...generally we don't even get the option to rent it. it's gong to be streamlined more this generation, consoles will get a lot more dedicated servers by the developers (used to have P2P) but probably none to rent.

    PC gamers have to be on online games that are popular, there's no support for dedicated servers if people stopped paying for them. and then you have to find a good one that you like and hope you don't get banned for whatever reason...i remember this from playing CS.

    but like i said, i would still choose PC here. just that i also see the advantage consoles are going to give. this way, you can have games like The Division...i don't know how that will work on PCs when PCs don't really have official server support by developers. that will be interesting to see.

    Yes you do. Assuming you keep paying the 30 a year. I believe PS+ is much better value compared to the competition. But it's not a viable way of playing new games, for me. You will have to wait a few months before a new game comes, if it ever does. PS+ is essentially just gravy.
    I paid $40 but yes, assuming people pay $50 for it, i still think it's an awesome deal especially if you have a PS3 as well. I already have more than 20 games when i got my sub. at least 4 of them were ones i was going to buy.

    i can certainly see that it won't be worth it for people that want to buy new games at launch but for someone like me who doesn't play very many SP games...only plays MP games...it's definitely worth every penny and more.

    from an overall perspective, i think it is going to at least pay for online play for the entire year.

    for some of the games sure. I'm happy for you guys to pick up my tab though
    well, it can go both ways...the games you get from consoles don't nearly utilize the hardware you paid for.

    look at the Second Assault (remakes of BF3 maps)...your PC would've handled that back in 2011 but ports are limited things...especially when you're making it for the lowest common denominator.

    The PS3 and X360 were a lot closer to a high end PC at the time than they are now. They are midrange parts in a closed environment.
    give me a reason why they are more low powered than before.

    within 3 years? Stuff doesn't get that outdated that quickly. A 300 upgrade later in that 500 PC in 3 years time would put it above and beyond what the consoles are capable of. This generation won't be like the last. I don't expect to see massive jumps later in the PS4s life as they designed it to be simpler. Those jumps will be much sooner compared to the PS3
    the jumps are still going to be there, trust me on this one. it's just that we're going to see the potential being "more" reached than previously. there are going to be jumps due to optimizations.

    see, this argument would work way better if Sony didn't have an awesome in-house development team that is an industry on its own.

    but going back to the life cycles...1) we don't have real data to conclude anything here, the only thing we have is the past. you can bring examples and i'll be sure to look into it but i don't know how much 300 pounds turn out to be but i doubt that's cheap in the US. EDIT: that's $499 lol. $#@! that. PS4 will be $300 or less in 3 years.

    2) we're not being practical here. no one in their right mind would actually upgrade the same PC you had 3 years ago. it's not smart.

    which is why i buy PC hardware now that is not necessarily future-proof.

    That's why I always say for me. PC gaming isn't for everyone and neither is Condole gaming. Some prefer to be sat on a did, I prefer to be sat at a desk. Just for me, PC is much more suitable
    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.
    i'm not saying there isn't value on the PC platform. it's just that it's not going to get the casual support consoles get...i don't think it ever did though.
    Last edited by Omar; 03-10-2014 at 16:07.

  20. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by IshTing View Post
    Shouldn't the question be "Can a 350 PC beat new consoles?". I only paid 350 for my PS4 and wouldn't the PS4 be more powerful than it already is for 500?
    PS4 = 350
    PS+ = 40
    3 new games = ~120 (assuming 40 each)
    Total = 500

    Considering I can get 10+ games on the PC for under 5 or new blockbuster titles for under 25 at launch just shows that if you bought 10 new games on the PS4 (about 300 if waiting) in a single year, I could get the same titles in that same year for well under 50 saving me 250 for upgrades.

    And I'm sorry Sufi but PC games do not require paying for servers, they are 100% free. If you're talking about MMOs then that's a completely different beast. Excluding MMOs there is not a single game that is multiplatfrom on the PC that requires paid servers.

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    oh yea, PC gaming did have quite a big spurt of casuals playing, but that was back around 1999 through 2004 maybe 2005, but 2004 is when the casuals started to trickle down. The reason is that games were working on so many GPU's that no one had to spend freakin $300 for a new card, the games were made with lower to mid GPU's in mind. Now it seems every game that comes out, you have to have the next Nvidia GPU that costs $300 up to $500. The way the GPU's and the rapid change of PCIe 1.0, 2.0, etc etc. that steady movement in tech is making it expensive.

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    I would rather spend 300 on 50 games and a new GPU than 10 games and being stuck with 1080p/30 or 720p/60. Once you experience 120Hz on the PC you'll never go back!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    PS4 = 350
    PS+ = 40
    3 new games = ~120 (assuming 40 each)
    Total = 500

    Considering I can get 10+ games on the PC for under 5 or new blockbuster titles for under 25 at launch just shows that if you bought 10 new games on the PS4 (about 300 if waiting) in a single year, I could get the same titles in that same year for well under 50 saving me 250 for upgrades.
    so the way you're calculating that is if you bought a PS4 game at launch but waited for the PC version so that it drops down in price?

    maybe that would be true the those hardcore users that collect games but dude, that's not practical because i don't buy every game at launch and used games market is huge right now.

    if there's a money issue, you can find a way to still game cheap on consoles.

    And I'm sorry Sufi but PC games do not require paying for servers, they are 100% free. If you're talking about MMOs then that's a completely different beast. Excluding MMOs there is not a single game that is multiplatfrom on the PC that requires paid servers.
    so you're telling me that if everyone stopped paying for servers on counterstrike/bf3/bf4, that you can still play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    I would rather spend 300 on 50 games and a new GPU than 10 games and being stuck with 1080p/30 or 720p/60. Once you experience 120Hz on the PC you'll never go back!
    didn't know you could get 50 new games (since you are talking about new games on consoles) + a GPU for 300 pounds do tell more.
    Last edited by Omar; 03-10-2014 at 18:22.

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    It's doable, you gotta cut corners though. Give it a year or two.

    It's worth noting, again, PC's are not just gaming devices. They can do that plus everything else, so it's worth the extra cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    PC gamers won't have official dedicated servers. why i said that i'd still pick PC over consoles in that category is because we don't get much choice - e.g. PC gamers get plethora of options on their servers, how to run it, what to lock/unlock, i'm sure insane amount of options to pick and modify their server with...generally we don't even get the option to rent it. it's gong to be streamlined more this generation, consoles will get a lot more dedicated servers by the developers (used to have P2P) but probably none to rent.
    PC gaming is all about dedicated servers. What are you talking about? Even games from the 90's still have active communities with dedicated servers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal View Post
    Even if it were possible, it wouldn't change the fact that the PC gets the $#@! end of exclusives. Exclusive titles will forever make the home consoles more enjoyable for me.
    PC has more and better exclusives, I think. I get more enjoyment out of my PC games than the consoles combined -- have been for years, and probably will continue doing so. Plus the mods, free games, cheaper games, indie scene, free online, etc. It's ultimately cheaper in the end.

    Sony has some great exclusives, but it's only a piece of the whole picture.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 03-10-2014 at 18:25.
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    But sony is putting in a ton of effort towards the indie movement. For me I like to game on PC and consoles. I may get Titanfall on the PC and it's because it's very much a twitch shooter and I noticed it's heavily relied on a mouse if you want fast action gaming. It's that kind of a game where you want to do a 180 if your not in a mech. So for games like that, yes I like PC gaming. However, for exclusives, I agree that consoles definitely get the upperhand in that area. Consoles have some very nice exclusive games and the development teams are pretty top notch in that respect. Either way, for me it's a PC and PS4 when it comes to gaming on both platforms. I have had the most enjoyment out of both consoles and PC. Not trying to play it as they are equal, but I've had the best gaming moments on both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    PC gaming is all about dedicated servers. What are you talking about? Even games from the 90's still have active communities with dedicated servers.
    sir what i'm talking about is that someone needs to own those servers. they aren't provided at cost from the developer. if the community is not paying for the servers, you can't play those games. that's why MMOs require you to pay.

    what consoles are doing is that you don't need to own a dedicated server in order to play, you're paying for them in bulk (Live/PS+). this is precisely why PS+ is required for online play and isn't for PS Vita.

    official dedicated servers are the ones DICE provides for consoles. they stopped that on BF3 a long time ago. they still may have some left in there but mostly the support was cut. BF4 so far has official servers only, once they start giving people the option to rent, they may still not cut out support...if they do, they're trying to save money but they should be able to provide them granted we already pay them for it.

    now one can argue...ok, but i don't pay for it so it's free to me. well, i can go back and make the same argument about games...i don't pay much for the games i own...i buy them at $6-$15 a pop after a year. and then i sell them back for about the same or more in some cases.

    console gaming to me is cheap as $#@!.

    PC gaming to me feels like a waste of money because not only you're now stuck with a PC that needs is pointless to upgrade (you'd rather make a new one, it's much more difficult to sell it as well rather than a console that has a general price range in used sales at any given point), those cheaper games you bought can't be sold back!

    PC has more and better exclusives, I think.
    preference.
    I get more enjoyment out of my PC games than the consoles combined -- have been for years, and probably will continue doing so. Plus the mods, free games, cheaper games, indie scene, free online, etc. It's ultimately cheaper in the end.
    it's not cheaper in the end. PS+ makes it dirt cheap for me at the moment, including the used games sales.

    Sony has some great exclusives, but it's only a piece of the whole picture.
    it's a pretty big piece, considering that's half the reason people stick with a certain console, and stick with consoles in general. you're forgetting that not all games make it to PC.

  28. #24
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    tbh, (Still $#@! pc and pc gamers, youre not real gamers) the start wars battle front game i would consider doing anything for, but those stupid ass rpgs and rts's?! nah

    Thanks to Final for the sick sig!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 33x View Post
    tbh, (Still $#@! pc and pc gamers, youre not real gamers) the start wars battle front game i would consider doing anything for, but those stupid ass rpgs and rts's?! nah
    lay it down brotha.

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