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  1. #51
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    Yes you can get cheap games on pc. ... cheap made.

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    Last edited by thanatos144; 03-11-2014 at 11:40.
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    So how are the games costing less on PC meaning cheaply made? How is TitanFall as an example going to be cheaply made? Yet it costs £27 vs £45


    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    that's called a dedicated P2P server. Unless you have the speeds that the professional dedicated servers provide (you know, the actual ones, not P2P), you're not going to be running a smooth multiplayer game. I highly doubt a 64 player game would run without the upload speeds required by these games.
    I have ran a BF1942 P2P server on my machine with 128 players without a hitch in the last month, sure only about 80 odd people joined (from the clan I'm in - nostalgia sakes) but the lowest ping we had was 40 and the highest was around 200, for someone playing on the machine that's hosting the server I think that's pretty damn good. Do I need a professional dedicated server? lol no just the necessary bandwidth to accommodate that many players and it's not as much as you think it is.

    yeah, another cost that you guys don't want to add...but want to add everything else from the console side...because apparently we don't have options to save money but you guys do. sounds fair!

    yeah you do. or you need someone's dedicated server that they're paying for.
    yeah, guess what, someone's paying for all that crap.
    I'm taking the cost saved on games that goes towards hardware, when you no longer need the old hardware you put it towards a spare parts machine, this spare parts machine costs you nothing. Guess what? No one's paying for that crap.

    what? of course PCs have limited life cycles, it's called "upgrading".
    No they don't, I can still play games dating back to the 80's, can you say the same about consoles? No.

    and what does an example or two prove with indie games? yeah, that sounds like an awesome deal but really, what does that prove? that i can't get a great deal on consoles? incorrect.
    So are you trying to tell me you can get 9 console games for £2? Also there have been some big publishers on Humble Bundles too which have given a good ~5 games for £5 with bonus games a week later too. Hell EA did the Humble Bundle for charity and I got 8 games out of it for £5! And these at the time included their latest games.

    I don't even know that this means.
    You don't understand what "you can play the game wherever and whenever you like" means? I'm sure you've heard of a Laptop.

    exclusives not many people care about yes. I do but the general population do not.
    Current Steam stats:
    DOTA 2: Current Players 388,504 | Peak Today 609,237

    That game alone is an example that PC exclusives have more people playing them online in a single game than anyone on the PS4 and XB1 playing online probably combined. I don't even want to know the current stats on League of Legends but I would imagine that's in the millions currently and more millions at peak. So the general population doesn't care about PC exclusives? There's a reason where there's a professional gaming league on the PC platform and not on consoles.

    i'm sorry, i thought you were trying to sell me PC here. this sounds like the opposite.
    I was giving an Indie example, but if you like I'll say this: All Blizzard games, all Creative Assembly games, all Maxis games (not that I like The Sims but still...), all Bluebyte games, all Sid Meier's games, almost all MMOs, all point and click adventure games, all proper real time strategy games, all proper flight sims, all proper racing sims. The list is endless and full of exclusives that console gamers will never get. Do you know what the funny thing is with Crytek? They said that they went to consoles because PC gamers are pirates, the irony behind all of that was that for a PC only game, Crysis 1 sold the most on the PC and Crysis 2 and 3 sold less and that was across multiple platforms, but when Valve does things right then they bring Half-Life across it sells bucket loads, so exclusives on the PC do sell extremely well and is most certainly not "the general population doesn't care about".

    I love MMOs and that's the only thing that attracts me towards PCs. the rest of the games you mentioned, I'm sure there's an audience out there but honestly i'm not seeing them at E3 or being in the spotlight. personally they don't interest me as much as exclusives I see on the PS consoles.
    Corrected your mistake, anyway those are series of titles that sells in the millions every single game in the series! Why are they not at E3? Because it's a console event. If you want PC related stuff you watch things like PAX, Eurogamer Expo, Taipei Expo, EGX and there are many others. As you're a console gamer you won't know many of these. There are more PC Gaming conventions than console conventions.

    well, more power to you. I have PS+ and i couldn't be more happy. I've already saved about a hundred dollars because 3-4 games out of the ones i downloaded, i skipped because i didn't have time to do buy them. now, i have them and i don't need to worry about time. they're just there whenever i feel like playing.

    i get games on PS3 and PS4. that alone to me is worth the money. the rest is that i don't need a small spare parts PC to run a P2P server or rely on others to play. like i said earlier a couple of times, I still like the fact that PC gamers get more control over their servers...we don't because they're not ours and even if we pay to rent them, we don't get enough options like PC gamers do. But I still support the idea of paying bulk so people aren't stuck with paying for a server on one game, it's more mobile this way, you are allowed access to all online games.

    this is why dedicated servers on PC games advertise their speeds right in the server title, because it matters...and whoever pays more for their server, wins the popularity vote.

    steam should start a service like this because while it may cost you a little bit of money to keep these servers up (high-speed servers), it will mean more standardization (less laggy servers), more stimulated growth in numbers...which means that having practically unlimited servers ready to be deployed (which is really a finite number), it helps the community grow because then they're not worried about if enough people have servers out there. e.g. one day i know BF3 is going to run out of steam because those are user-rented servers.

    i'm positive that most people like yourselves here, wouldn't pay for a server, would rather move to another game. but if there are ones out there at any time, you will likely stick around and not move on to another popular game.

    again, this is not to say that PC games run out of servers, it is to say that someone is paying those costs...because it is free to you, doesn't mean it's free.

    i would also suppose that if you're with a clan, you are almost guaranteed to support your own server because it would not make sense to use someone else's server to do your own thing.
    Umm lol?

    A spare parts machine does not create a P2P server, it creates a dedicated server, that's the whole point of them in the first place, there is literally no cost to them except for the electricity bill while it's being ran, but dedicated servers don't require graphics cards and several other things so the power consumption is actually very low indeed.

    The servers' speeds that are advertised are pings, this is exactly the same way as console games except with consoles you get a coloured bar instead (which is inherently stupid and makes zero sense), ping is what matters and if you can get a ping of below 50 on an FPS then you're sorted. The problem I have with official servers is that you don't know the ping, when playing Killzone SF I'm always constantly having connection issues, why? It shows me a green colour bar and says I have no problem but I bet you anything my ping is over 200 because of the server location. Us PC gamers can choose our servers amongst thousands (take a nice long look at Team Fortress 2), Valve host multiple free servers for us but most people still set up our own and all for free be they dedicated or P2P and we get no problems at all.

    So why don't we pay for a server? Because if we did then PC gamers will literally stop playing games online and boycott and game in question. Us PC gamers are a finicky lot and you should never charge anything like this on such an open platform.

    If you're providing a crazy high bandwidth service with nothing but dedicated servers across a range of games like Multiplay did then sure that's fine, that's different as you're guaranteed their servers and lines are tested thoroughly, and they have admins constantly watching the servers, but otherwise no way jose.

    that's funny because paying for PS+ has been saving me tons of money. I guess different strokes for different folks. it works for me.
    I thought that at first but then realised that I won't ever own the games in question. Sure I might platinum it or complete it, but what if I wanted to play it in the future when the servers are down for good? I can't.

    more games? really? i don't know about that. you mean cheaper games? again, i haven't see a good example of actual next-gen games...the only example i've seen so far are small indie games. i'm sure i'd save just as much money on PC gaming too because I can find out ways but then that's not to say consoles are more expensive.
    Yes we mean cheaper games, the same games that are on the consoles! Tomb Raider at release on PS3: £40, Tomb Raider Special Edition on PC at release: £30... wait a sec did I say I could get the special edition for £10 cheaper then the normal edition on consoles?! Ok here's a PC exclusive that is a blockbuster title that sell millions, Rome II Total War: £22 at release... wait did I say £22?! Ok here's another multiplatform game for you to think about that's just been released, Thief! It's £40 on the PS4 and how much did I pay for it? £18 with the pre-order bonuses. These games I bought on day 1 and I have saved a massive amount of money already and for a better experience. If I can save half the cost on 3 games like that then I've already made £60 (assuming Tomb Raider was the normal edition on PC). So what can I get for £60 hardware wise? An SSD for faster boot and loading times, maybe 8GB RAM, perhaps a cheap Nvidia care for dedicated PhysX? Or even save up another £40 and spend that on a 24" IPS display, or how about a 120Hz TFT display? I'll throw the other hardware into a spare machine.

    Having said that I have spent nothing hardware wise on my PC since October 2012 and I can still max out every game on a resolution of 5760x1080 (triple monitors) and get 80FPS+ on most games with a GTX680. This machine only cost me £800 to build too but I have saved already so much money from purchasing multiplatform games on this machine compared to the console counterparts that I've more than made my money back in a year.

    good point, yes, you can sell off outdated hardware but the options to upgrade does not matter when your motherboard is outdated or that PCI slot is outdated and your motherboard does not support the new PCI slot card. that happened to me and i stopped gaming PC. that was the reason.
    You purchase futureproof hardware, you don't purchase current standardised hardware, that's where you went wrong. Whenever I purchase any hardware I take a look at future tech and wonder when they'll be released, if the mobo I'm getting is going to be PCIe 2 and it will soon be replaced by PCIe 3 in a month or two then I'll wait, however what you don't seem to understand is that new hardware still works on old motherboards. I can put my GTX680 in my ancient 2005 Asus motherboard, sure that's only PCIe 1 and have a massive bottleneck but the fact is it would still perform better than the 9800GT that inhabited it beforehand. RAM is the same, your DDR3 RAM works in DDR1 slots with the only difference being that the RAM will operate at a slower speed. The only issue you will have is your CPU, if you wanted to upgrade your CPU then you make sure that you research properly and know that it's a fairly recent socket so that you know the newer CPUs will fit that socket.

    All in all it's very simple.

    I don't want my games forever. I realize that no matter how great a game is, a new one always comes out. I do know that PC games last a long time but then again, you are stuck with the same game and don't get updates. There are mods but other than small fixes and additions, they can't do much. Last but not least, this is possibly one of the reasons PC gaming is becoming a niche...no one wants to buy new games anymore, they are ok with a few games that they will continue to play for years.
    that sounds great from one perspective but it's bad for the industry. if it were up to me, i'd still be playing SOCOM with mods (had it been a PC game) and i wouldn't have ever tried other games...and i didn't try other games when i had a PS2. i would've been perfectly happy playing new user-created maps. awesome.
    What?! I can attest to you that PC gamers purchase MORE newly released games than console gamers easily, on top of that MODs can and often completely changes the experience of any game. These two paragraphs you have just written has instantly told me that you have no clue about PC gaming or PC gamers.

    there are more than a few games that come out on the consoles that don't on PC. actually i don't even buy many first party games, i like third party.
    So why are you on a console if you play mostly third party games? You would be saving WAY more money in the long run. Besides the PC has far more exclusives than console games and I don't mean just Indie titles.

    for casual gamers, it is. if you continue to ignore that, you will continue to misunderstand why PC gaming isn't popular.
    PC gaming not popular, what world are you living in? There are more gamers playing online at peak on Steam at any one time than the XB360 and PS3 alone. If I added in MMOs and other PC exclusive games that aren't on Steam then I bet you anything that figure is well over 100 million at its lowest playing on PC at any one time per day.

    then you have services turned on that don't need to be there. considering you have a gaming PC lol. i can fix that for you if you'd like.
    Turning that option off on an HDD would actually slow down the machine as he would have to leave his machine defragging for several hours a month, leaving the option on may impact performance at install but it never runs when data isn't being changed.

    like? what is far from the truth?
    Like you're far from the truth.

    i'm sure it does from a perspective. like i said earlier, a game goes a long way on PCs...at the same time, that is the problem with PC games as well. they are too open-ended and generally people don't buy different games, that's bad for the industry, you can't survive like that.

    but PC not being much more complicated? it isn't. not for people that understand PCs. the problem is trying to convince the other 100m people that do think they're complicated...or mobile PCs would've never taken on. apps would've never taken on. what's the difference between an app and a program? nothing. get it? just making it to where people don't have to go to the program files or the start menu then all programs then find the name of the program they want to run (if they remember the name) and then finding which one is the exe file that might have an icon next to it if you're lucky...that's the problem.

    they just need an icon sitting there that they can click once and boom.

    this is why PCs are also losing demand as a main computer. it is not "them" that don't understand PC, it is you that do not understand their "issue" with PCs. To you, it seems simple, to them, there are 10 steps involved in opening up an app err program.
    Step 1: Download Steam
    Step 2: Install Steam by clicking the downloaded icon
    Step 3: Choose which game to install that you own
    Step 4: Run game
    OMBFG this is so difficult! You know the ironic thing about all of this? The fact that consoles are built for simplicity yet it's more convoluted to find a game I own and want to install but with Steam I choose the game instantly and install it. Have you seen the mess of PSN's download list for instance? For a game I bought a few years ago I have to scroll downwards for about a minute. If you don't have Steam and the game runs straight from the disc install then here's another way to install the game:
    Step 1: Insert disc
    Step 2: Click install
    Step 3: Wait for install
    Step 4: Click the installed game icon on the desktop
    Are you trying to tell me that this is difficult for console gamers to understand?

  4. #54
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    Varsh (mostly) hit everything out of the park with his above post. You don't build a gaming PC with a crappy dual-core AMD processor, then a year later complain about the speed and shell out 400$ for a new motherboard and better CPU. You buy hardware to last, and look up the data to make the best decisions. You can go years on a good build. I'm still going perfectly fine on my 900$ PC from 2011. If I ever want to, I just sell off my current GPU for about 100$ and spend an extra 100-200$ (which I will have after not paying for online and 60$ games anymore) for much, much higher performance.

    Everyone tries to make PC gaming this expensive and complicated thing when it's really not true at all.


    Edit: Also, guys, I'd generally recommend limiting your posts to 4-6 quote blocks. It really helps narrow down the discussion and keep things focused on the more important pieces.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 03-11-2014 at 20:03.
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  5. #55
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    Just an FYI BF3&4 has official servers, you only connect to official servers if you click the play now button.
    Not that PC needs any servers provided by the publisher/developers PC community can sort itself out.

    PC gaming has gotten easier the last few years due to Windows being better and devs making better games and user interfaces.
    ITs not like consoles are immune to port forwarding.
    Last edited by keefy; 03-11-2014 at 18:46.

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    DF: Can a £500 PC beat new consoles?

    Well Varsh went in on that post. Thankfully he says everything that I think every PC gamer has been thinking. Nothing to add to that.


    All I can say is anyone that has PC gamed knows that most of the myths about PC gaming are false.

    It's no harder than console gaming and the games offer you more. And I love that I can upgrade when I want to and don't rely on generations of hardware. I could experience next next next generation today if I wanted to.

    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.

  7. #57
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    I bet you think your a bad man after that post innit varsh? It wasn't that epic and again... $#@! pc nerd fake gaming!

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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    Well Varsh went in on that post. Thankfully he says everything that I think every PC gamer has been thinking. Nothing to add to that.


    All I can say is anyone that has PC gamed knows that most of the myths about PC gaming are false.

    It's no harder than console gaming and the games offer you more. And I love that I can upgrade when I want to and don't rely on generations of hardware. I could experience next next next generation today if I wanted to.

    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.
    Well....yeah, PC gaming isn't that hard. Or....rather, usually it isn't. Really depends on the game. My son wanted Halo 2 for Vista. $#@!ing nightmare to get that running. Wasn't even because it was for Vista, but the stupid, idiotic Game for Windows client crap. But still, PC gaming isn't hard for the most part. But is it "no harder" than console gaming? No. Sorry. I don't have to check out PC requirements for a console game. It isn't a big deal on PC, but it does make it a little more involved. You need to stay aware of how old your hardware is and when you need to upgrade. Just a fact. Consoles....either it plays on your console or it doesn't. So it is simpler, but consoles are not as flexible and you have the same hardware for the duration. So pros and cons for both.

    And whether or not the games "offer more".....well, that just depends on the game. That is really the bottom line for either console or PC gaming. What games do you want to play? I'd rather play Uncharted and Metal Gear games. My sons are all about Gary's Mod, Battlefront, Starbound and all kind of Steam stuff. Somehow.....we find a way to live in the same house peaceably.

    BTW.....Varsh probably hit on some of these points, but I'm not reading all that. lol
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  9. #59
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    Howís this, any better? I do multiquotes because to me, it keeps the discussion on point because every point is being addressed. Though Iíve combined them all to make them into one quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Varsh (mostly) hit everything out of the park with his above post. You don't build a gaming PC with a crappy dual-core AMD processor, then a year later complain about the speed and shell out 400$ for a new motherboard and better CPU. You buy hardware to last, and look up the data to make the best decisions. You can go years on a good build. I'm still going perfectly fine on my 900$ PC from 2011. If I ever want to, I just sell off my current GPU for about 100$ and spend an extra 100-200$ (which I will have after not paying for online and 60$ games anymore) for much, much higher performance.
    and Iíve spent about that much since 2007. Again, the point of this thread was to show how buying a PC that would be close to the multiplat games on PS4/X1 today, would benefit you. So further you are proving that it isnít practical as I stated.

    Everyone tries to make PC gaming this expensive and complicated thing when it's really not true at all.
    You had spent $900 to build a PCÖthatís a lot of money. The only reason I probably even spent close to that is because PS3 was expensive as $#@!.
    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Just an FYI BF3&4 has official servers, you only connect to official servers if you click the play now button.
    Not that PC needs any servers provided by the publisher/developers PC community can sort itself out.

    PC gaming has gotten easier the last few years due to Windows being better and devs making better games and user interfaces.
    ITs not like consoles are immune to port forwarding.
    I suppose those servers are there to get things going. I donít think youíd get a lot of user-created/bought servers in the beginning so they donít want you to have it where youíre out of options. They still have official ones on PS3 but the support was cut off by a lotÖI think PC would have the same issue there. Though I donít think BF4 will ever lose support because weíre paying for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    Well Varsh went in on that post. Thankfully he says everything that I think every PC gamer has been thinking. Nothing to add to that.
    well that's not saying much lol.

    All I can say is anyone that has PC gamed knows that most of the myths about PC gaming are false.
    What are those myths again?

    It's no harder than console gaming and the games offer you more.
    and this is why you guys will never get it.

    And I love that I can upgrade when I want to and don't rely on generations of hardware. I could experience next next next generation today if I wanted to.

    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.
    and i'm sure if others wanted to, they could just buy a PC...but they don't...which means that they don't care to. therein lies the issue.
    Last edited by Omar; 03-12-2014 at 03:32.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    Howís this, any better? I do multiquotes because to me, it keeps the discussion on point because every point is being addressed. Though Iíve combined them all to make them into one quote.
    It was more a suggestion of quality over quantity, though I guess that's little issue when you have enough free time. I just find these discussions to accomplish a lot more when the conversation is more focused on ending debate pieces, rather than continuing opinion pieces against opinion pieces.

    You know what would be useful? Spoilers containing the responses for each individual person, if only for the sake of less page scrolling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    and Iíve spent about that much since 2007. Again, the point of this thread was to show how buying a PC that would be close to the multiplat games on PS4/X1 today, would benefit you. So further you are proving that it isnít practical as I stated.

    You had spent $900 to build a PCÖthatís a lot of money. The only reason I probably even spent close to that is because PS3 was expensive as $#@!.
    Definitely not. Between both consoles, the more expensive games, paying for XBL, paying for DLC, etc, PC gaming has certainly been cheaper for me than console gaming. Yes, that's with the prices of the consoles at the time I built my PC, too, so don't try to wheedle the price around to favor your argument. In a previous PC vs console price debate I even showed how I had 100+ games on my steam library after spending less than 300$ on everything. That's not including the free titles, non-Steam games, and mods that add to the whole gaming experience.

    Weren't you the one saying that you weren't as satisfied as you would've (probably) been if you had gone with PC last generation?

    Anyway, 900$ for a superior device that I'm happier (as a gamer, and consumer and creator of content) with seems reasonable to me. My 2500k at stock can last for years, and I can always overclock it. If I really want to, I'll just buy a new GPU instead of a console. I would be continuing with a better experience, on superior hardware, for less money. For me and others with similar mind, where is the disadvantage?

    Quote Originally Posted by 33x View Post
    I bet you think your a bad man after that post innit varsh? It wasn't that epic and again... $#@! pc nerd fake gaming!
    I see the peasants are getting unruly again...
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    It was more a suggestion of quality over quantity, though I guess that's little issue when you have enough free time. I just find these discussions to accomplish a lot more when the conversation is more focused on ending debate pieces, rather than continuing opinion pieces against opinion pieces.

    You know what would be useful? Spoilers containing the responses for each individual person, if only for the sake of less page scrolling.
    done.

    Definitely not. Between both consoles, the more expensive games, paying for XBL, paying for DLC, etc, PC gaming has certainly been cheaper for me than console gaming. Yes, that's with the prices of the consoles at the time I built my PC, too, so don't try to wheedle the price around to favor your argument. In a previous PC vs console price debate I even showed how I had 100+ games on my steam library after spending less than 300$ on everything. That's not including the free titles, non-Steam games, and mods that add to the whole gaming experience.
    you've missed my point completely. i said that if you are talking about buying a top-of-the-line hardware then how does that help the argument that the article states? the article states that you can buy a cheap PC hardware to beat the PS4/X1...well what about a year or two down the line? I can't even practically update those hardware as i've stated.

    as for games...again, what sort of games are these? are you talking about indie games? i didn't buy games in a bulk like that but of the bulk i did purchase, i could fit about 10 games for 50 bucks, these are popular games, not just any...or indie.

    and with PS+, i have games worth over $200 at this moment. so if i went out there right now, i would end up spending that much. there are about 5-6 games that i consider being worthy of actual play while i put my online games on hold that i barely have time for.

    so again, we can talk about saving money but really, we're just throwing a bunch of numbers out there...it doesn't mean anything in the bigger scheme of things. what matters is telling a person what game they can get that they would want and what they'll have to pay up front, what problems they may encounter...and more.

    last but not least, you are incorrect that i'm using the price argument to my favor, I actually came to the conclusion in my talk to varsh that console gamers probably spend more in general on games (higher prices) but the hardcore ones that buy tons, probably spend about the same on both platforms if you look at the overall costs.

    Weren't you the one saying that you weren't as satisfied as you would've (probably) been if you had gone with PC last generation?
    yes. i wasn't as satisfied with PS3 as I thought i was going to be. i probably would've had tons more fun on PC. but that should at least change a bit because we're getting experiences that are closer to PCs. and i just could not deal with the issues on PC at that moment. i already had a PS3.

    Anyway, 900$ for a superior device that I'm happier (as a gamer, and consumer and creator of content) with seems reasonable to me. My 2500k at stock can last for years, and I can always overclock it. If I really want to, I'll just buy a new GPU instead of a console. I would be continuing with a better experience, on superior hardware, for less money. For me and others with similar mind, where is the disadvantage?
    you want me to start again? lol. those are certainly good things if they are for you and i would not mind experiencing it but everyone has their own preference. i can certainly get down and dirty with the details but i don't think we all have time for that.

    what i will say though is that they're two completely different experiences and appeal to completely different sort of gamers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    you've missed my point completely. i said that if you are talking about buying a top-of-the-line hardware then how does that help the argument that the article states? the article states that you can buy a cheap PC hardware to beat the PS4/X1...well what about a year or two down the line? I can't even practically update those hardware as i've stated.
    Then I don't know what you're really asking then that hasn't already been established or isn't well known to anyone here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    as for games...again, what sort of games are these? are you talking about indie games? i didn't buy games in a bulk like that but of the bulk i did purchase, i could fit about 10 games for 50 bucks, these are popular games, not just any...or indie.
    I don't see why them being indie matters. I've gotten more enjoyment out of those anyway. Regardless, I have plenty of 'non-indie' titles in my library. Outside of that, I have Black Flag on uPlay, Battleifeld 3, Sims 3, and Dead Space 3 on Origin. I got those for 5$.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    and with PS+, i have games worth over $200 at this moment. so if i went out there right now, i would end up spending that much. there are about 5-6 games that i consider being worthy of actual play while i put my online games on hold that i barely have time for.
    Pseudo-value is pointless to the discussion. What matters is if you enjoy the money you've spent on what you've received, and if you saved money by not needing to buy the games separately (if you were planning to).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Then I don't know what you're really asking then that hasn't already been established or isn't well known to anyone here.
    our entire argument started with the fact that you can build a cheaply made PC that can compete with PS4/X1. my point was that then you'd have to pretty much build a new one a couple of years down the line to keep the advantage...after arguing our socks off, we realized that it wasn't always feasible to upgrade, it just didn't make sense in any way so now you and varsh both stated that this is why you don't buy a cheaply made PC...you buy one that will last you a while.

    well, which is it? cheap one that can beat the consoles that year or maybe the next or a really expensive console that can continue to beat the consoles for a number of years? because either way, it's not necessarily cheaper.

    I don't see why them being indie matters. I've gotten more enjoyment out of those anyway. Regardless, I have plenty of 'non-indie' titles in my library. Outside of that, I have Black Flag on uPlay, Battleifeld 3, Sims 3, and Dead Space 3 on Origin. I got those for 5$.
    sometimes PSN gets deals like that too where we get dirt cheap games. I have seen Far Cry 3 and Crysis 3 at $5. we don't get them as much as PCs do but that's why Steam (and now Origin) is popular.

    Pseudo-value is pointless to the discussion. What matters is if you enjoy the money you've spent on what you've received, and if you saved money by not needing to buy the games separately (if you were planning to).
    yes and that's why the article is pointless, hence what i was trying to say the whole time. it's just talking about one perspective and going with it. it's not going to be successful. it's not going to change minds.

    to me, console gaming works for what i want it to work for. i know very well my way around the PC platform so if i ever had an issue, i would not have any issue moving. but it's ironic to me that while I have all the experience i do with PCs and know all the good things about them and i like the advantages that it provides...yet i end up choosing consoles...knowing that they are not the best possible machines.

    i think it makes more sense when i think that i didn't necessarily wanted top of the line graphics on PC either...so to me, consoles are just fine because they're generally mid-range in PC ports...and well, right now they're high-ranged but not very high of course. so i couldn't be more happy. and the trend is that it's going to catch up to that middle ground and maybe even higher and stay there longer each generation.

    then of course you have certain exclusives that blow just about everything away and i can get that experience on a cheap machine that i don't ever have to upkeep. it's plug-n-play. yes, plug-n-play. go ahead, argue against it, i have plenty to discuss about that. in the end, it is plug and play, that's the reality of it. which is why i say that gaming PCs should stick to gaming and not everything else. because each and every program you install can bog or break the system.

    i've had over 2 decades of experience with that. trust in me when i say this. i love computers but i don't love them for gaming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    our entire argument started with the fact that you can build a cheaply made PC that can compete with PS4/X1. my point was that then you'd have to pretty much build a new one a couple of years down the line to keep the advantage...after arguing our socks off, we realized that it wasn't always feasible to upgrade, it just didn't make sense in any way so now you and varsh both stated that this is why you don't buy a cheaply made PC...you buy one that will last you a while.
    No. You're mixing different pieces of the discussion here. You made it sound like PC's have to be continuously and often updated, among other things, and we've been correcting you on it.

    Why do you think a PC matching the consoles now won't continue matching them in the following years? Because the consoles can be 'optimized'? Please, that only accounts for so much room to grow. If we look at the big picture, you'll what we've been saying all along: PC gaming saves you money. Sorta, in some ways. With the money saved on the free online and cheaper games you can buy a better GPU in 2-4 years time, which would amply raise you above the consoles in performance (if you're not already exceeding or still matching them anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    sometimes PSN gets deals like that too where we get dirt cheap games. I have seen Far Cry 3 and Crysis 3 at $5. we don't get them as much as PCs do but that's why Steam (and now Origin) is popular.
    Well, that's nice. But it's definitely not like it is on PC, where practically everything hits 66+% off and the whole gaming community is throwing cash down for dozens of games as a time. Nor is it as early. I got Deus Ex: Human Revolution (which is a goddamn fantastic game) for 7$ only three months after its release. I admit that's one of the better examples, but that's how things are on the PC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    then of course you have certain exclusives that blow just about everything away and i can get that experience on a cheap machine that i don't ever have to upkeep. it's plug-n-play. yes, plug-n-play. go ahead, argue against it, i have plenty to discuss about that. in the end, it is plug and play, that's the reality of it. which is why i say that gaming PCs should stick to gaming and not everything else. because each and every program you install can bog or break the system.
    You say 'plug and play' as if it actually means something.

    Anyway, I loved the exclusives on the PS3, and I'm confident it'll happen again for the PS4. That's why I'm eventually planning on getting one. But PS fans really do overhype their exclusives. I know that's going to make some people here froth a the mouth, but it's the truth. They're amazing games, but they're not golden crowns sitting amongst a pile of rocks.

    I don't know where the misconception that the PC has poor exclusive content came from, but it really needs to go die in a ditch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    No. You're mixing different pieces of the discussion here. You made it sound like PC's have to be continuously and often updated, among other things, and we've been correcting you on it.
    no, go back and look at where the discussion started, maybe you were taking it the wrong way but the discussion started with mid-ranged PCs. not high-end.

    Why do you think a PC matching the consoles now won't continue matching them in the following years? Because the consoles can be 'optimized'? Please, that only accounts for so much room to grow. If we look at the big picture, you'll what we've been saying all along: PC gaming saves you money. Sorta, in some ways. With the money saved on the free online and cheaper games you can buy a better GPU in 2-4 years time, which would amply raise you above the consoles in performance (if you're not already exceeding or still matching them anyway).
    that's incorrect in many ways. i've been saying it all this time. you're going to end up arguing with me for hours but what myself and BBK ended up with last time we discussed this was that if you take a PC from 2006 and then try to run a game like TLOU/HR/GT5 or UC on it, it will not work. PCs from 2006 do not have the horse-power to run games of that caliber. Go look at the hardware from that era and see how crappy the games looked back then. there's no comparison.

    so no, that's incorrect and it happens because PC developers don't support the hardware but it's rather hardware that supports their games/engines. you buy specific hardware that is meant to run a certain game or a certain engine. not specifically but it boils down to having the power available, they aren't going to bother trying to optimize the code because it's not feasible.

    second, you're again talking about buying a high-end PC that is going to cost $#@! ton of money and then you want me to upgrade that every few years...that is not cost-efficient to me when i barely have spent a thousand bucks this past generation and have gotten dozens of games for it and had free online while doing it. you don't save much more money buying PC games, not if you know what you're doing. i've already discussed this, if you have something against it, please quote it. we're going in circles at this point.

    Well, that's nice. But it's definitely not like it is on PC, where practically everything hits 66+% off and the whole gaming community is throwing cash down for dozens of games as a time. Nor is it as early. I got Deus Ex: Human Revolution (which is a goddamn fantastic game) for 7$ only three months after its release. I admit that's one of the better examples, but that's how things are on the PC.
    ummm i got Dues Ex for $8 (albeit used) because it was just a crappy game and was reduced in price soon after launch. oh and i sold it for $9 once I realized how crappy it was.

    like i said, console gamers do pay the premium but they also get the support. that's all there is to know about that. now if you were telling me that i can buy the games i want on PS4 on PC for 66% off then i might give it a thought. that's not happening.

    You say 'plug and play' as if it actually means something.
    plug and play...meaning, ease of play, quick play, not as much hassle, more convenient.

    Anyway, I loved the exclusives on the PS3, and I'm confident it'll happen again for the PS4. That's why I'm eventually planning on getting one. But PS fans really do overhype their exclusives. I know that's going to make some people here froth a the mouth, but it's the truth. They're amazing games, but they're not golden crowns sitting amongst a pile of rocks.
    I don't end up loving exclusives as much as others do but i have to admit that a lot of polish goes into these games and they are just amazing to see happening on such "supposedly" weak machines. it's the experiences that i like from these games, they're not necessarily the best games overall in my mind because i don't go for short and sweet, i go for lengthy and grand.

    I don't know where the misconception that the PC has poor exclusive content came from, but it really needs to go die in a ditch.
    did i say it was poor? i said that it wasn't anywhere near what consoles get. if anything, i want all the MMOs it gets. those are exclusives. that is pretty much the reason i'm sticking with the PS4 at this moment. MMOs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 33x View Post
    I bet you think your a bad man after that post innit varsh? It wasn't that epic and again... $#@! pc nerd fake gaming!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Well....yeah, PC gaming isn't that hard. Or....rather, usually it isn't. Really depends on the game. My son wanted Halo 2 for Vista. $#@!ing nightmare to get that running. Wasn't even because it was for Vista, but the stupid, idiotic Game for Windows client crap. But still, PC gaming isn't hard for the most part. But is it "no harder" than console gaming? No. Sorry. I don't have to check out PC requirements for a console game. It isn't a big deal on PC, but it does make it a little more involved. You need to stay aware of how old your hardware is and when you need to upgrade. Just a fact. Consoles....either it plays on your console or it doesn't. So it is simpler, but consoles are not as flexible and you have the same hardware for the duration. So pros and cons for both.

    And whether or not the games "offer more".....well, that just depends on the game. That is really the bottom line for either console or PC gaming. What games do you want to play? I'd rather play Uncharted and Metal Gear games. My sons are all about Gary's Mod, Battlefront, Starbound and all kind of Steam stuff. Somehow.....we find a way to live in the same house peaceably.

    BTW.....Varsh probably hit on some of these points, but I'm not reading all that. lol
    Yeah I guess I am lying when I say it is just as simple of an experience as consoles as there is often a bit of homework you need to do if something doesn't work - occasionally. That very rarely happens though and when it does a quick googled fixes it.

    Granted that's more than you have to do on the consoles.

    Regarding the constant upgrade argument. Ubisoft released the minimum settings today. Has anyone else seen then? Dual core CPU's, 6GB ram, 1GB DX11 GPU. Very modest


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    This thread was going well until Sufi and that troll 33x turned up.

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    DF: Can a £500 PC beat new consoles?

    They're jealous of the master gaming platform. The platform where bickering about framerates and tiny differences in resolutions doesn't happen. The promise land, if you will.




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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSBiH-AQtWs



    Yeah I guess I am lying when I say it is just as simple of an experience as consoles as there is often a bit of homework you need to do if something doesn't work - occasionally. That very rarely happens though and when it does a quick googled fixes it.

    Granted that's more than you have to do on the consoles.

    Regarding the constant upgrade argument. Ubisoft released the minimum settings today. Has anyone else seen then? Dual core CPU's, 6GB ram, 1GB DX11 GPU. Very modest


    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.
    tell that to the noobs that even need tutorials on how to utilize their consoles. just the reality of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    This thread was going well until Sufi and that troll 33x turned up.
    well life isn't all peachy now.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    They're jealous of the master gaming platform. The platform where bickering about framerates and tiny differences in resolutions doesn't happen. The promise land, if you will.




    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.
    i know you're joking but the irony that PC gamers don't understand is that you all actually need to worry about more resolution and frame rates lol. just not the higher up masters. i'm talking about the rest of the minions in your clan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    that's incorrect in many ways. i've been saying it all this time. you're going to end up arguing with me for hours but what myself and BBK ended up with last time we discussed this was that if you take a PC from 2006 and then try to run a game like TLOU/HR/GT5 or UC on it, it will not work. PCs from 2006 do not have the horse-power to run games of that caliber. Go look at the hardware from that era and see how crappy the games looked back then. there's no comparison.
    Crysis blew away the entire console generation on a technical level. My 200$ GPU (4850) from 2008 ran it well enough on a CPU that was available in 2005 (AMD 5600+). That was when I was a complete noob at PC gaming too; I could've squeezed cheaper and/or better hardware had I known better at the time and not started with a 500$ prebuilt from a store.

    Did I mention my cousin is currently using that GPU temporarily until he gets a new GPU, and that it's still holding up really well? He beat Metro 2033: Last Light on med-high settings at a stable 60fps (except scenes with heavy particle effects close to the camera) at 1600x900. Not bad for a 7 year old GPU, and that was a medium card on its release.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    second, you're again talking about buying a high-end PC that is going to cost $#@! ton of money and then you want me to upgrade that every few years...that is not cost-efficient to me when i barely have spent a thousand bucks this past generation and have gotten dozens of games for it and had free online while doing it.
    No, I wasn't. Buying complete high end is actually rather inefficient. Generally the cost to performance ratio starts to stack against you, and it's better to go for a cheaper GPU now and save that money for a better, still cheap GPU later on (if you wish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    you don't save much more money buying PC games, not if you know what you're doing. i've already discussed this, if you have something against it, please quote it. we're going in circles at this point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    ummm i got Dues Ex for $8 (albeit used) because it was just a crappy game and was reduced in price soon after launch. oh and i sold it for $9 once I realized how crappy it was.
    Not exactly the same as getting Deus Ex: HR for 5$, three months after launch, with all the DLC. Like it matters for the grand scheme of the discussion anyway.

    Oh, and no. It wasn't a crappy game. Personal opinions aside it was received extremely well, and is held up by many gamers as being one of the better games of that generation. Not sure why you didn't like it or think that influenced its price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    plug and play...meaning, ease of play, quick play, not as much hassle, more convenient.
    I guess? I just don't see why that matters here. You say it as if it means something important, like it's a persuasive statement that elicits some change of mind.


    Meh. This entire topic boils down to people not understanding how PC gaming works, making inaccurate statements, and ignoring corrections made by people who actually know what they're talking about. You're going to deny it, but that's the reality of it.
    Last edited by Nerevar; 03-12-2014 at 16:38.
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  21. #71
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    Like I said before. Home consoles simply get the better exclusives. So to me, it does not matter what I can build a PC for, because I will still need the PS4 and XB1 for the better exclusives. And trophy/achievements are the best thing since sliced bread!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal View Post
    Like I said before. Home consoles simply get the better exclusives. So to me, it does not matter what I can build a PC for, because I will still need the PS4 and XB1 for the better exclusives. And trophy/achievements are the best thing since sliced bread!
    Exactly. For me it really isn't about whether PC gaming is cheaper/more expensive, easier/more difficult or any of the other stuff that is being argued about. None of that really matters to me. I just prefer the games on consoles. For me, it is the superior experience. Preferences and stuff.
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  24. #73
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    Seems pc gamers have console envy. They are always first to tell you their computer is superior even when no one asked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Exactly. For me it really isn't about whether PC gaming is cheaper/more expensive, easier/more difficult or any of the other stuff that is being argued about. None of that really matters to me. I just prefer the games on consoles. For me, it is the superior experience. Preferences and stuff.
    Yep I agree. I get to play awesome exclusives on console that you cant get on PC , especially with PlayStation.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 03-12-2014 at 18:10.

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    Lets face it consoles allow you to easily play games on your couch or in my case bed. It isn't as easy to do that with a pc

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