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    23 States Refuse to Expand Medicaid for 4.8 Million People

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-leave-behind/

    Twenty-three states are currently not planning to move forward with the Medicaid expansion, which was meant to cover millions of low-income Americans. The population they leave behind is mostly young, minority, single adults, according to two new data briefs from the Kaiser Family Foundation.
    Their analysis is one of the most in-depth looks at the population that falls into this coverage gap, too poor to qualify for insurance subsidies (those are available only to those who earn above the poverty line, about $12,000 for an individual). They're also shut out of the traditional Medicaid program, which tends to cover low-income parents, children and those with disabilities.
    Click on the link to read the rest.

    My parents happen to be 2 of the 4.8 million.

    What shocks me is people keep voting in these politicians in those states.
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    The conservative right seems to vote against their own interests so often. It's really confusing.

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    The "conservative" right and the "liberal" left are all part of the same gang. The sooner people stop voting for anyone with a "D" or "R" in their title, the sooner Americans can do what is truly right. Get the damn debt and deficit spending out. At this rate though, this country is better off defaulting and declaring bankruptcy and starting over from zero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    The "conservative" right and the "liberal" left are all part of the same gang. The sooner people stop voting for anyone with a "D" or "R" in their title, the sooner Americans can do what is truly right. Get the damn debt and deficit spending out. At this rate though, this country is better off defaulting and declaring bankruptcy and starting over from zero.
    Damn straight. Democrats and Republicans only have their own interests at heart. They cater only to this institutional bribery system we call "campaign finance".

    The health industry is just as bad. The insurance bureaucracy and hospitals are in a money fixing scheme to overcharge all Americans for basic services. Government programs do not solve the underlying issue of healthcare costs. And frankly, these costs and the accumulated debt of the US go hand in hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    The "conservative" right and the "liberal" left are all part of the same gang. The sooner people stop voting for anyone with a "D" or "R" in their title, the sooner Americans can do what is truly right. Get the damn debt and deficit spending out. At this rate though, this country is better off defaulting and declaring bankruptcy and starting over from zero.
    And here at Exhibit A. we see reason.

    @ Chris

    Very, very true about the health industry.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    The "conservative" right and the "liberal" left are all part of the same gang. The sooner people stop voting for anyone with a "D" or "R" in their title, the sooner Americans can do what is truly right. Get the damn debt and deficit spending out. At this rate though, this country is better off defaulting and declaring bankruptcy and starting over from zero.
    I disagree, the republicans and democrats are different in what they stand for and what laws they support and pass.

    How can we get out of debt without spending? There's no need to start over from zero.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I disagree, the republicans and democrats are different in what they stand for and what laws they support and pass.

    How can we get out of debt without spending? There's no need to start over from zero.
    Huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Damn straight. Democrats and Republicans only have their own interests at heart. They cater only to this institutional bribery system we call "campaign finance".

    The health industry is just as bad. The insurance bureaucracy and hospitals are in a money fixing scheme to overcharge all Americans for basic services. Government programs do not solve the underlying issue of healthcare costs. And frankly, these costs and the accumulated debt of the US go hand in hand.
    If "Obama care" were given more of a chance, maybe it would help.

    The health industry is composed of rich people and people in high places. It's just like oil and other things, the rich care only about being the 1% and not about the other man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Huh?
    I'll ask it again:
    How can we get out of debt without spending? Republicans want to cut spending, but how can you get out of this mess without spending?

    When an individual gets in debt and spending actually helps him or her get out of debt, why not keep spending wisely? It's like an investment.
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  12. #10
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    Nope sorry. They may act and say they have have different views but they all have the same agenda. Advancement of the government and their careers. They are in it for the long haul and they will say and do anything to keep it that way. As for the expansion... no. Its not needed. Just more people to take advantage of it. Sorry, truth hurts. My sister and brother in law are both paramedics. You would not believe the stories they tell me about what people with Medicare and Medicaid do. I know people could genuinely use it and many may treat it with respect but when so many don't is hard to get behind it.
    Last edited by PS4freak; 03-26-2014 at 04:19.




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    Quote Originally Posted by PS4freak View Post
    Nope sorry. They may act and say they have have different views but they all have the same agenda.
    That's not true. Republicans want less government, democrats arguably want more government at the moment.
    Advancement of the government and their careers.
    Sorry, but the Republicans want less government.

    They are in it for the long haul and they will say and do anything to keep it that way. As for the expansion... no. Its not needed. Just more people to take advantage of it.
    It is needed for the 4.8 million who NEED it. Who are one medical incident away from dying or being put thousands in debt.

    Sorry, truth hurts.
    Sorry, bull crap doesn't hurt.

    My sister and brother in law are both paramedics. You would not believe the stories they tell me about what people with Medicare and Medicaid do.
    So, what about what they don't do? Just because a few abuse the system, does not meant everyone abuses the system.
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    No.

    Republicans and Democrats both want more government, not less. At the end of the day, this is really the bottom line.

    Sure, one party may want to cut government in certain areas but grow it in others. This is most well known around the lines of Military vs. Social Programs.

    Both want to cut/expand the other.

    But overall, I'd say that the two parties are incredibly, incredibly similar. The illusion of choice is just another form of control. It keeps people lining up and consenting to their continued existence.

    For instance, it is remarkable that every president makes a ton of promises but once elected they more or less do the same stuff. Obama talked a big pregame and slammed Bush, but he's continuing many of his policies (NSA, foreign deployments, etc).
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 03-26-2014 at 05:30.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    If "Obama care" were given more of a chance, maybe it would help.

    The health industry is composed of rich people and people in high places. It's just like oil and other things, the rich care only about being the 1% and not about the other man.
    I don't want anything they don't have to use. If the Government don't have to use this Obama scheme, why should I have too? In the words of myself...

    "$#@! outta here"


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I'll ask it again:
    How can we get out of debt without spending? Republicans want to cut spending, but how can you get out of this mess without spending?

    When an individual gets in debt and spending actually helps him or her get out of debt, why not keep spending wisely? It's like an investment.
    Reducing debt is very simple. Increase revenue, cut spending, or both. Our entitlement system is not an "investment" that is going to return money to the government. Never has. One could argue that it is the right thing to do to protect those who can't afford health care. I'm not going to debate that either way but the underlying cause (health care costs) of the "mess" isn't being addressed by Republicans or Democrats.

    Spending/investing to get out of debt only works if the interest received for the investment is greater than the interest paid on the debt. Our government isn't doing that. It is just flooding the population with money to cover up the root of the problem and kicking the can to the next generation.
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    We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

    Entitlements and, what is tantamount to, bribery is really sinking the ship.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    If "Obama care" were given more of a chance, maybe it would help.

    The health industry is composed of rich people and people in high places. It's just like oil and other things, the rich care only about being the 1% and not about the other man.
    you do realize that obamacare is just going to help the rich and not the poor right? it's another form of oppressing your population through gathering personal information that may be used to make more money for the rich. the smaller picture is that it's going to help "some" poor...the bigger picture is that it's going to give the big wigs more control over the population. the same you detest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    The "conservative" right and the "liberal" left are all part of the same gang. The sooner people stop voting for anyone with a "D" or "R" in their title, the sooner Americans can do what is truly right. Get the damn debt and deficit spending out. At this rate though, this country is better off defaulting and declaring bankruptcy and starting over from zero.
    This ain't my argument but we have a saying here when it comes to political parties: Left, right, blue, red, yellow, whatever.. They all piss in the same pot at the end of the day..

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I disagree, the republicans and democrats are different in what they stand for and what laws they support and pass.

    How can we get out of debt without spending? There's no need to start over from zero.
    Is that how you plan on running your household in the future?

    "Ok, I make $75K a year, but I am in the hole due to my primary mortgage, car payment, insurance, college fund, etc, etc. So, the plan is, take out a second mortgage and spend it, that will surely help get me out of debt!".

    See how much sense that makes? Zero! Government spending is NOT the right answer, sure it is the easiest thing to do right now to keep this house of cards propped up, but it all it will do is dig us deeper and deeper and further devalue our currency. And, one thing to keep in mind, a debased currency hurts the POOR far more than it does the RICH!

    To be honest, the rich folks probably don't care all that much about a devalued currency, they have so damned much money it is really just an inconvenience. The poor on the other hand, it makes an already difficult life even more difficult and ultimately just drives them further into debt.

    Just use some logic, we're in debt so let's spend more is not the answer.
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    oh it won't be an inconvenience for the rich...but then again, i'm talking about the ones that are less than the 1%...the ones that own half the world's wealth. the regular rich people, yes it will be inconvenient for them.

    we need a reboot of this government. we need one that is "truly" run by the people, for the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Wolf View Post
    I disagree, the republicans and democrats are different in what they stand for and what laws they support and pass.

    How can we get out of debt without spending? There's no need to start over from zero.
    No. They really aren't. Before you say something to this effect again, I want you to do a search for the voting records of all 525 members of congress, our president and the rest of his administration. You'd be surprised at just how similar they all really are.

    On the topic of spending, you don't spend to get out of debt. What you do is either you reduce spending or you raise revenue. Since this nation actually has some of the highest tax rates on income in the world, both personal and corporate wise, it isn't so much about a lack of revenue. What should be done is an across-the-board cut to spending. This includes military spending and cuts to social programs.

  26. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Damn straight. Democrats and Republicans only have their own interests at heart. They cater only to this institutional bribery system we call "campaign finance".


    The health industry is just as bad. The insurance bureaucracy and hospitals are in a money fixing scheme to overcharge all Americans for basic services. Government programs do not solve the underlying issue of healthcare costs. And frankly, these costs and the accumulated debt of the US go hand in hand.
    Even stuff as simple as hospital care gets effected by all of this. If you look at the cost per equipement, then add other factors of insurance and how they can scam others out of certain cares or procedures. Then you have.....well, anything involved in medical, FDA regulations to no regulated costs effectiveness, or anything.

    yea, at a hospital, a jello cup costs around $10. a bandaid cap can cost anywhere from $8 to $10 per bandaid. Bandaging in general can go up to $50 to $80. just the cost of a CT scan machine is probably around $250,000 well up to $500,000 and that's just one piece of equipment they have and they have well over 100's of different pieces of equipment, couple of scanners, etc etc. lol
    Last edited by Demi_God; 03-27-2014 at 16:35.

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    True, there are ways that spending can in the long term help better itself- like investing in proper infrastructure, strongly funding science oriented programs like NASA, etc. Now, I and others will argue the efficacy of these actions vs more privately funded alternatives (without the crony capitalist element, mind you) but that isn't the point.

    Some level of debt is good for a nation, and this seems fairly rational. Nations, unlike people, don't "die". They don't have to plan for retirement, getting old, or many of the other limitations imposed on humans. This is why analogies involving households\people with salaries and debt doesn't ever quite fit.

    However, arguing that you can "spend yourself out of debt" to me seems rather dubious and a sure recipe for short a term, staggered, recovery and long term ailments.

    I don't buy into the broken window fallacy.

    And while Keynesian economics can work, I just don't quite believe it is the most effective solution out there. I also think it is perhaps the most short sighted. I tend to side with the Austrian school of thought, or perhaps more accurately, economic theories which are closer to that camp.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 03-27-2014 at 20:07.


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    Vulgotha really hits the nail on the head. The one thing I may disagree with him on is that a certain amount of debt is good for a nation. I just don't see that being the case. So long as a nation has debt, it can and is oftentimes held hostage by the interests whom hold said debt. Being beholden to another nation, a banking institution or corporate interest is not healthy for a nation.

  30. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgotha View Post
    No.

    Republicans and Democrats both want more government, not less. At the end of the day, this is really the bottom line.

    Sure, one party may want to cut government in certain areas but grow it in others. This is most well known around the lines of Military vs. Social Programs.

    Both want to cut/expand the other.

    But overall, I'd say that the two parties are incredibly, incredibly similar. The illusion of choice is just another form of control. It keeps people lining up and consenting to their continued existence.

    For instance, it is remarkable that every president makes a ton of promises but once elected they more or less do the same stuff. Obama talked a big pregame and slammed Bush, but he's continuing many of his policies (NSA, foreign deployments, etc).
    "Illusion of a choice" is not what I read and learned about in my American Government class. Of course Americans have a choice, that sounds like a conspiracy theory.

    Here's the deal:

    Far to the right republicans want this and that, moderate and somewhat liberal republicans want certain things, moderate and conservative democrats want things, and then far to the left dems have their own agendas. So really, you can't separate it just Republicans and Democrats. It also seems like when there is a good amount of compromise on both parties that the country is its best.

    Presidents like Obama are so far to the left that Republicans refuse to compromise much at all.

    As for broken promises, each president has his reasons for not delivering. Obama's reasons are plain as day: the Republicans block a lot of his proposals.

    Yes, he did have the senate and house, but wanted to work with the Republicans. I betcha if the Dems get the house this year, he won't make that same mistake twice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by $Greatness$ View Post
    I don't want anything they don't have to use. If the Government don't have to use this Obama scheme, why should I have too? In the words of myself...

    "$#@! outta here"
    They NEED it, the country needs it. If YOU do not have health insurance of any kind, YOU need it or you're one accident away from dying in the hospital.
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