Latest PSU headlines:

Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Dedicated Member
    victorijapoosp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,182
    Rep Power
    44
    Points
    12,447 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style

    PS4 GPU Can Handle 64bit Path Xbox One Must use 32bit path due to ROP/DDR3 constraint

    Quote Originally Posted by Emil Persson – Head of Research at Avalanche Studios
    “As hardware has gotten increasingly more powerful over the years, some parts of it has lagged behind. The number of ROPs (i.e. how many pixels we can output per clock) remains very low. While this reflects typical use cases where the shader is reasonably long, it may limit the performance of short shaders. Unless the output format is wide, we are not even theoretically capable of using the full bandwidth available. For the HD7970 we need a 128bit format to become bandwidth bound. For the PS4 64bit would suffice.”

    “On the XB1, if we are rendering to ESRAM, 64bit just about hits the crossover point between ROP and bandwidth-bound. But even if we render to the relatively slow DDR3 memory, we will still be ROP-bound if the render-target is a typical 32bit texture.”




    http://www.dsogaming.com/news/avalan...-gen-consoles/

    http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-gpu-can-ha...ndwidth-issues

    http://www.humus.name/Articles/Perss...timization.pdf
    Last edited by victorijapoosp; 03-31-2014 at 06:13.
    You can't be serious with the 30 megabyte signature... ~ Staff

    Maths is biased! It keeps telling me the PS4 is 50% more powerful than XboxOne!
    Great song, should have more views :'(

    SHIMAASAAAANIIII!!!!!
    http://i.imgur.com/bP50xuM.png

  2. Likes Peregrin8X, AttackTitan likes this post
  3. #2
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,290
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    153,515 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    "Must"? No.
    You can do floating point textures on either system, you just going to be bandwidth bound if you use 64 bit textures on either system.

    The talk was actually about getting around ROP limitations, ( on 32 bit textures which is the most common) not about "must use" anything, but you would be stupid to use 64 bits on the XBO without sending it to the ESRAM, that's for sure.

    HDR, precision shadow maps, g-buffer etc all the things we pretty much knew would be going there anyway.

    The far more interesting thing was the way they got around it using compute. Removing the 102gb barrier on the PS4 to use the full bandwidth, which gave them a 60-70% increase in bandwidth utilization.
    Last edited by mynd; 03-31-2014 at 11:00.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  4. #3
    Community Manager
    Fijiandoce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pacific Isles of Doceness
    PSN ID
    Fijiandoce
    Posts
    4,257
    Rep Power
    87
    Points
    259,870 (888 Banked)
    This would mirror what Yamauchi said about the PS2 having a faster Fill-Rate than the PS3(4?) too i would assume?

    Interesting stuff, though i imagine the industry is moving away from this for a reason? most engines are heavily dependant on shaders to make the pretty pictures.
    Sig courtesy of the_jim


  5. #4
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    545
    Rep Power
    7
    Points
    9,285 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    "Must"? No.
    You can do floating point textures on either system, you just going to be bandwidth bound if you use 64 bit textures on either system.

    The talk was actually about getting around ROP limitations, ( on 32 bit textures which is the most common) not about "must use" anything, but you would be stupid to use 64 bits on the XBO without sending it to the ESRAM, that's for sure.

    HDR, precision shadow maps, g-buffer etc all the things we pretty much knew would be going there anyway.

    The far more interesting thing was the way they got around it using compute. Removing the 102gb barrier on the PS4 to use the full bandwidth, which gave them a 60-70% increase in bandwidth utilization.
    No one said without using ESRAM.

    "For Xbox One, a 64bit path format will hit its peak which may result in a number of performance issues. Developers will be able to render their games via the slower DDR3 memory but they’ll have to adopt a 32bit path format to avoid any bandwidth issues.

    “On the XB1, if we are rendering to ESRAM, 64bit just about hits the crossover point between ROP and bandwidth-bound. But even if we render to the relatively slow DDR3 memory, we will still be ROP-bound if the render-target is a typical 32bit texture.”"

    He is pretty clear on what he is saying. 64 bits has issues on Esram and DDR3.

  6. #5
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,290
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    153,515 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    No one said without using ESRAM.

    "For Xbox One, a 64bit path format will hit its peak which may result in a number of performance issues. Developers will be able to render their games via the slower DDR3 memory but they’ll have to adopt a 32bit path format to avoid any bandwidth issues.

    “On the XB1, if we are rendering to ESRAM, 64bit just about hits the crossover point between ROP and bandwidth-bound. But even if we render to the relatively slow DDR3 memory, we will still be ROP-bound if the render-target is a typical 32bit texture.”"

    He is pretty clear on what he is saying. 64 bits has issues on Esram and DDR3.
    "64bit just about hits the crossover point between ROP and bandwidth-bound"

    Just about but not quite, they are fine rendering 64bits to the Esram.

    BTW if you think that's an issue then you should be really worried about the PS4, it absolutely cant render 64 bits to the GDDR5. It has 176gb/s but wants to render 204 g/bs= the same performance issues.

    I don't find this a huge issue either way. Its really about the ROP restrictions, not the bandwidth limits, the idea is you hit your bandwidth, rather than leave it idle.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-02-2014 at 07:22.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  7. #6
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    545
    Rep Power
    7
    Points
    9,285 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    "64bit just about hits the crossover point between ROP and bandwidth-bound"

    Just about but not quite, they are fine rendering 64bits to the Esram.

    BTW if you think that's an issue then you should be really worried about the PS4, it absolutely cant render 64 bits to the GDDR5. It has 176gb/s but wants to render 204 g/bs= the same performance issues.

    I don't find this a huge issue either way. Its really about the ROP restrictions, not the bandwidth limits, the idea is you hit your bandwidth, rather than leave it idle.
    You take some sentances, but not others.

    "For Xbox One, a 64bit path format will hit its peak which may result in a number of performance issues."

  8. #7
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,290
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    153,515 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!

    PS4 GPU Can Handle 64bit Path Xbox One Must use 32bit path due to ROP/DDR3 co...

    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    You take some sentances, but not others.

    "For Xbox One, a 64bit path format will hit its peak which may result in a number of performance issues."
    Hes talking about rendering to DDR3.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  9. #8
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    545
    Rep Power
    7
    Points
    9,285 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Hes talking about rendering to DDR3.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Actually he isnt. He is talking about precisely Esram.

    "For Xbox One, a 64bit path format will hit its peak which may result in a number of performance issues. Developers will be able to render their games via the slower DDR3 memory but they’ll have to adopt a 32bit path format to avoid any bandwidth issues."'

    He clearly says for Xbox One. Then, he talks about alternative option of running on "slower DDR3" on next sentence.

    Esram on first sentence and then "slower DDR3".

  10. #9
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,290
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    153,515 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    Actually he isnt. He is talking about precisely Esram.

    "For Xbox One, a 64bit path format will hit its peak which may result in a number of performance issues. Developers will be able to render their games via the slower DDR3 memory but they’ll have to adopt a 32bit path format to avoid any bandwidth issues."'

    He clearly says for Xbox One. Then, he talks about alternative option of running on "slower DDR3" on next sentence.

    Esram on first sentence and then "slower DDR3".
    Errr...
    Where exactly did he say that in the presentation paper again?
    Here he talks about ESRAM:

    On the XB1,if we are rendering to ESRAM, 64bit just about hits the crossover point between ROP and bandwidth bound. But even if we render to the relatively slow DDR3
    memory, we will still be ROP bound if the render target is a typical 32bit texture.
    http://www.humus.name/Articles/Perss...timization.pdf

    I'm quoting from the paper, not sure what you're quoting from. And if you haven't read the paper then how do you know what he is actually saying?

    Edit: Oh now I do:
    http://www.dsogaming.com/news/avalan...-gen-consoles/

    Jesus learn the difference, between what a crap journalist says and what the actual developer said. Emil never ever said what you were quoting.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-05-2014 at 21:02.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  11. #10
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    545
    Rep Power
    7
    Points
    9,285 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Errr...
    Where exactly did he say that in the presntation paper again?
    Here he talks about ESRAM:



    http://www.humus.name/Articles/Perss...timization.pdf

    I'm quoting from the paper, not sure what you're quoting from. And if you haven't read the paper then how do you know what he is actually saying?
    On the XB1,if we are rendering to ESRAM, 64bit just about hits the crossover point between ROP and bandwidth bound. But even if we render to the relatively slow DDR3 memory, we will still be ROP bound if the render target is a typical 32bit texture.

    He basically says Both methods are no good. Hence, EVEN IF.

    You are reading with huge bias. Running at 64 bit you used to be more bound by bandwidth but now with ROP or other way around. What limited X1 running 64 bit has changed to another thing that limits it.

    You are just reading with huge bias and adding something to where it is none.
    Last edited by AttackTitan; 04-05-2014 at 21:06.

  12. #11
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,290
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    153,515 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    On the XB1,if we are rendering to ESRAM, 64bit just about hits the crossover point between ROP and bandwidth bound. But even if we render to the relatively slow DDR3 memory, we will still be ROP bound if the render target is a typical 32bit texture.

    He basically says Both methods are no good. Hence, EVEN IF.

    You are reading with huge bias. Running at 64 bit you used to be more bound by ROP but now with bandwidth or other way around.

    You are just reading with huge bias and adding something to where it is none.
    Err no, your just reading from a crap journalist. Read my edit above. And do some dam research. Don't ever believe what a journalist says, go to the source.

    But lets break this down, the talk was about rop limitations.

    XBO
    If you write 64 bits to ESRAM your right on the edge of being BANDWIDTH BOUND.
    If you write 32 bits to DDR3 or ESRAM you are ROP BOUND

    PS4
    If you write 64 bits to GDDR5 you are BANDWIDTH BOUND.
    If you write 32 bits to GDDR5 you are ROP BOUND

    Well $#@! its the same situation...are you saying Attack that both systems are no good.

    Oh no!

    And you accuse me of bias, PMSL.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-05-2014 at 21:10.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  13. #12
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    545
    Rep Power
    7
    Points
    9,285 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Err no, your just reading from a crap journalist. Read my edit above. And do some dam research. Don't ever believe what a journalist says, go to the source.
    I am reading from both.

    Your own direct quote says this
    "On the XB1,if we are rendering to ESRAM, 64bit just about hits the crossover point between ROP and bandwidth bound. But even if we render to the relatively slow DDR3 memory, we will still be ROP bound if the render target is a typical 32bit texture."
    Do your own dam research man. You dont even read what you quote. Here
    He basically says Both methods are no good. Hence, EVEN IF.

    You are reading with huge bias. Running at 64 bit you used to be more bound by bandwidth but now with ROP or other way around. What limited X1 running 64 bit has changed to another thing that limits it.

    You are just reading with huge bias and adding something to where it is none.

  14. Likes Peregrin8X likes this post
  15. #13
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    545
    Rep Power
    7
    Points
    9,285 (0 Banked)
    This isn't first time you are adding crap to things don't exist and later turns out you made the whole thing up cause you lead your self into something more that doesnt exist.

  16. #14
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,290
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    153,515 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    I am reading from both.

    Your own direct quote says this

    Do your own dam research man. You dont even read what you quote. Here
    He basically says Both methods are no good. Hence, EVEN IF.

    You are reading with huge bias. Running at 64 bit you used to be more bound by bandwidth but now with ROP or other way around. What limited X1 running 64 bit has changed to another thing that limits it.

    You are just reading with huge bias and adding something to where it is none.
    PMSL. Come back to me once you figure it all out, and what they are a talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    This isn't first time you are adding crap to things don't exist and later turns out you made the whole thing up cause you lead your self into something more that doesnt exist.
    That's your answer for everything eh?, lol.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  17. #15
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    545
    Rep Power
    7
    Points
    9,285 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    PMSL. Come back to me once you figure it all out, and what they are a talking about.
    Nope. The direct source says X1 cant handle 64 bit. The author reads it and paraphrase the same. Seems everyone else does too.

    You magically add stuff that he didnt say. Must be getting old for you eh? You keep inventing stuff no one said.

    I love your move though. Your own source contradicts you and you immediate switch and run. I brought that up too didnt I? Your good ol switch and run tactic as soon as your realize you are wrong.

    That's your answer for everything eh?, lol.
    Nope. My answer was Emil Persson's quote and he directly says X1 cant handle 64 bits.

    My next line was why you keep magically add stuff in.

    EDIT.
    I await your response to my original point!
    Last edited by AttackTitan; 04-05-2014 at 21:54.

  18. #16
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,290
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    153,515 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    Nope. The direct source says X1 cant handle 64 bit. The author reads it and paraphrase the same. Seems everyone else does too.

    You magically add stuff that he didnt say. Must be getting old for you eh? You keep inventing stuff no one said.
    LOL, ok I'll bite.

    Where does it say "X1 cant handle 64 bits?"
    And if so why cant it?
    Which bit did I "magically make up?"
    That's a fairly hefty accusation I hope your willing to back that up now there sport?

    I love your move though. Your own source contradicts you and you immediate switch and run. I brought that up too didnt I? Your good ol switch and run tactic as soon as your realize you are wrong.
    I'm willing to cut you some slack here, because this isnt the easiest of subject to get you head around.
    If I have to go through this slide by slide I will.
    Nope. My answer was Emil Persson's quote and he directly says X1 cant handle 64 bits.

    My next line was why you keep magically add stuff in.

    EDIT.
    I await your response to my original point!
    Emil never said it can handle 64 bits. I gave you his dam quote.

    But that aside lets begin at the beggining (of this seciton of the talk anyway).

    Firstly our souce: http://www.humus.name/Articles/Perss...timization.pdf


    First slide:

    As hardware has gotten increasingly more powerful over the years, some parts of it has
    lagged behind. The number of ROPs (i.e. how many pixels we can output per clock) remains
    very low. While this reflects typical use cases where the shader is reasonably long, it may
    limit the performance of short shaders. Unless the output format is wide, we are not even
    theoretically capable of using the full bandwidth available. For the HD7970 we need a
    128bit format to become bandwidth bound. For the PS4 64bit would suffice.
    So, fact 1. We become bandwidth bound at 64 bits on the PS4 writing back to the GDDR5.
    Why? Because maximum throughput is 176gb/s and our shaders want to write 204 gb/s

    176<204 equals bandwidth bound (in other words our GPU will max this out)- you call this being "not able handle it".

    If this is you criteria (that they become bandwidth bound therefore cant handle it), then both system are in the same boat.

    Here is the slide:



    Notice the green "BW Bound" writing to the RGBA16f examaple.

    I'll break tht down for you as well RGBA16f means 16bits for R, G, B, and A =4 x16=64 bits.

    Now, you switched tactics suggesting "Even if" we switch to 32 bits we are ROP bound on the Xbox ESRAM.

    Lets look at the situation again using the same slide:

    PS4 wants to do 102gb/s while the GDDR5 can do 176gb/s in this case the bandwidth can handle more than what the ROPS can out put.

    In this case we are ROP BOUND (note the red ROP BOUND).

    So fact 2: PS4 is ROP bound when using 32 bits.

    Summary

    We become bandwidth bound at 64 bits on the PS4 writing back to the GDDR5.
    We become ROP bound at 32 bits on the PS4 writing back to the GDDR5.


    Lets move on to the Xbox One.

    Bit more tricky cause you have two pools of ram.

    What he said:

    On the XB1, if we are rendering to ESRAM, 64bit just about hits the crossover point
    between ROP and bandwidth bound. But even if we render to the relatively slow DDR3
    memory, we will still be ROP bound if the render target is a typical 32bit texture.
    Lets write 64 bits back to the ESRAM...

    ESRAM can handle 109gb/s and we can output at 109gb/s as he says, pretty much on the edge, he describes this in the slide as ROP bound..


    Now lets write 64bits back to the DDR3

    DDR3 can handle 68gb/s and we want to push 109b/s!
    We are absolutely bandwidth limited, and and we will be majorly bandwidth bound if we write 64 bits back to the DDR3, therefore, for best performance you should write your 64 bit textures to the ESRAM.
    The XBO DDR3 cannot "handle" 64 bits and full peak bandwidth (nobody has ever said otherwise in this thread), therefore you should send these back to the ESRAM.

    Now this is where you latest little confusion starts happening, and jumping up and down that
    But even if we render to the relatively slow DDR3 memory, we will still be ROP bound if the render target is a typical 32bit texture.
    You say "He basically says Both methods are no good. Hence, EVEN IF."

    Not no good, just ROP bound, in other words at 32 bits the XBO wants to write only 54gb/s when you have 68gb/s available.
    It not "no good" it just doesn't make the most of the bandwidth.

    This is the exact same situation that the PS4 found itself in , it has more bandwidth than what the GPU can actually use.
    Both systems are ROP bound when writing 32 bits to conventional memory.

    Oh and accompanying XBO slide.



    Note the same red ROP bound in brackets when talking about RGBA8 (again 8 bits for R, G, B, A - 4x 8=32 bits).

    Therefore and this was the whole $#@!ing point of the presentation...



    Both systems need to break the ROP limitation (I do note this is only in short shader code as stipulated originally by Emil).
    Their solution:

    The solution is to use a compute shader. Writing through a UAV bypasses the ROPs and
    goes straight to memory. This solution obviously does not apply to all sorts of rendering, for
    one we are skipping the entire graphics pipeline as well on which we still depend for most
    normal rendering. However, in the cases where it applies it can certainly result in a
    substantial performance increase. Cases where we are initializing textures to something else
    than a constant color, simple post effects, this would be useful.
    And boom, thats was his point, not that x system cant do y, but that both x and y were limited, and this was a way around it.

    I'll let that sink in, I really can't add more to it than that, take it or leave it, that's up to you, but I hope you use the opportunity to learn, and not cling to some falsehood.

    Edit: fixed up a typo.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-05-2014 at 22:56.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  19. #17
    Superior Member
    Peregrin8X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    orange county
    Posts
    529
    Rep Power
    16
    Points
    11,134 (0 Banked)
    Attack Titan, despite what others may claim, your the most knowledgeable person who's posted in this thread. I trust what you say.

  20. Likes mynd likes this post
  21. #18
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,290
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    153,515 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    Attack Titan, despite what others may claim, your the most knowledgeable person who's posted in this thread. I trust what you say.
    Speaks volumes.
    We really do love you Peregrin8x, dont ever change.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  22. #19
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    545
    Rep Power
    7
    Points
    9,285 (0 Banked)
    Xbox One using Esram can put out 109 gb/s for 64 bit.

    PS4 can put out 176 gb/s for 64 bit. Even being bandwidth bound, it provides much better

    let that number sink in for a bit.

  23. #20
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,290
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    153,515 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    Xbox One using Esram can put out 109 gb/s for 64 bit.

    PS4 can put out 176 gb/s for 64 bit. Even being bandwidth bound, it provides much better

    let that number sink in for a bit.
    I know that, thats hasnt changed since we knew the specs also why I said:

    BTW if you think that's an issue then you should be really worried about the PS4, it absolutely cant render 64 bits to the GDDR5. It has 176gb/s but wants to render 204 g/bs= the same performance issues.

    I don't find this a huge issue either way. Its really about the ROP restrictions, not the bandwidth limits, the idea is you hit your bandwidth, rather than leave it idle.
    The truth is, even if they had put GDDR5 on the Xbox, with it's 16 ROPS couldn't have used it beyond 109gb/s, they would have had to up the ROP count.

    As you say, 176gb with stalls beats 109gb without regardless.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  24. #21
    Superior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    545
    Rep Power
    7
    Points
    9,285 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I know that, thats hasnt changed since we knew the specs also why I said:



    The truth is, even if they had put GDDR5 on the Xbox, with it's 16 ROPS couldn't have used it beyond 109gb/s, they would have had to up the ROP count.

    As you say, 176gb with stalls beats 109gb without regardless.
    This argument started because what you said there does not match what you said previously. At least to me, didnt feel it that way starting out.

    BTW if you think that's an issue then you should be really worried about the PS4, it absolutely cant render 64 bits to the GDDR5. It has 176gb/s but wants to render 204 g/bs= the same performance issues.

    I don't find this a huge issue either way. Its really about the ROP restrictions, not the bandwidth limits, the idea is you hit your bandwidth, rather than leave it idle.
    I appreciate you going back to the discussion and stopping this from just becoming a pissing match.

  25. #22
    Power Member
    keefy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    The Sock Gap
    Posts
    17,325
    Rep Power
    124
    Points
    55,265 (0 Banked)
    Items Gran Turismo 5Michelle MarshDoomid SoftwareCommodore 64Metal Gear Solid
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    In terms of bandwidth XBone is not faster than my 3 year old GPU (AMD 6870) but PS4 is.

    Not trying to prove a point or make one. Just throwing it out there.
    Last edited by keefy; 04-05-2014 at 23:57.

  26. #23
    Power Member
    mynd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    41
    Posts
    17,290
    Rep Power
    160
    Points
    153,515 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    This argument started because what you said there does not match what you said previously. At least to me, didnt feel it that way starting out.



    I appreciate you going back to the discussion and stopping this from just becoming a pissing match.
    I don't know if you missed my post in the DX12 thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post



    This is a good example of what the PS4 can do, vs what MS would have to worry about all the 16, and 16f buffers would have to fit in the esram for speed performance. The RGBA8 buffers could sit in ddr3.

    A 16f (64 bit) buffer is 15.8mb!
    That's a classic example of even maxing out your bandwidth, you'd never be able to fit all those 16f's inside that ESRAM its just to small. No matter what happened in this case, something would have to give on the XBO.
    That sort of scenario would have to be avoided at all costs.

    Just cause you can render 64 bits to the ESRAM, doesn't mean you necessarily should

    Also, you should be really happy regarding the PS4 when they talk about going through via compute, it means they can do simple things (short shaders) like framebuffer assembly at the full 176gb's not 102 gb/s.

    The thing that Emil presented was a performance win for both systems, but by far more gains for the PS4.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-06-2014 at 00:22.
    I am no longer participating in these forums, I wish all of you on the PSU Forums the best for the future.

  27. #24
    Superior Member
    Peregrin8X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    orange county
    Posts
    529
    Rep Power
    16
    Points
    11,134 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Speaks volumes.
    We really do love you Peregrin8x, dont ever change.
    same here bud

    i can count on you to keep fighting that good fight.

  28. #25
    Dedicated Member
    Sajuuk Khar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Age
    26
    Posts
    1,360
    Rep Power
    71
    Points
    8,243 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I don't know if you missed my post in the DX12 thread:



    That's a classic example of even maxing out your bandwidth, you'd never be able to fit all those 16f's inside that ESRAM its just to small. No matter what happened in this case, something would have to give on the XBO.
    That sort of scenario would have to be avoided at all costs.

    Just cause you can render 64 bits to the ESRAM, doesn't mean you necessarily should

    Also, you should be really happy regarding the PS4 when they talk about going through via compute, it means they can do simple things (short shaders) like framebuffer assembly at the full 176gb's not 102 gb/s.

    The thing that Emil presented was a performance win for both systems, but by far more gains for the PS4.
    I know digging up a dated conversation, but :P

    what else could be processed via compute rather than..."traditional" means? And could this be related to why Sony altered the GPU to handle much higher queue depth for a more complex compute orientated tasks beyond what we would consider to use compute functions for?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

PSU

Playstation Universe

Reproduction in whole or in part in any form or medium without express written permission of Abstract Holdings International Ltd. prohibited.
Use of this site is governed by our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.

vBCredits II Deluxe v2.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2010-2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.