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    Xbox One will Double Performance with DirectX12

    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    A new magical GPU, it's that 2x gpu thing. hehe Keep eating that secret sauce, this is going to get much more entertaining.

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    Had to click the video to see if it was posted on April 1st.
    No doubt its like Mantel which gives better acces to the GPU or something thus increasing performance somehow. I think it more applies to PC than a console.

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    ROFL I believe the term is NO, NO, NO, NO, NO , NO ,NO ,NO, NO!!!!

    Direct X 12 will not increase performance dramatically. It's going to add features perhaps.
    That often slows things down.
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    DX12 is going to allow for some fair optimization, but it's not going to be that transparent. It's still an API, and that means there's a present overhead using resources and impeding full hardware-level access. Even then, there's only so much you can do with set hardware.
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Microsoft screwed themselves by using SRAM. There's only so much you can do with it hardware wise. These tools will make little difference. It is what it is. I'll buy one eventually for Halo 5...but I know not to buy it for outstanding visuals or UI.


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    Why DX12?

    Couldn't they just copy/paste the following 'code' at the end of all games?

    SecretSauce = performace.Improvement (xboxOne) [x9001]
    if SecretSauce = True:
    pop champagne bottles + " It's OVER 9000!!!!!!!"
    Easy. Took me like 30 seconds.

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    lol @ double the performance

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    Wtf is going on here? I feel like mrxmedia has taken over the internets

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    If this was a 100% fact wouldn't sony have went that route?
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Had to click the video to see if it was posted on April 1st.
    No doubt its like Mantel which gives better acces to the GPU or something thus increasing performance somehow. I think it more applies to PC than a console.
    X1 or any console API gives very good access to its hardware. People already mentioned Mantle is not necessary on PS4 and X1 for this reason.

    http://www.gamepur.com/files/imagepi...on-slide-5.jpg
    Giving "console like API", that is what DX12 is mainly about.

    So X1 gets what it already has, but somehow magically boost in performance. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by dondidit View Post
    If this was a 100% fact wouldn't sony have went that route?
    Or just copy the software and do what MS does.


    I have a feeling it makes it easier for indies and they benefit. Porting becomes easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by unicron7 View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Microsoft screwed themselves by using SRAM. There's only so much you can do with it hardware wise. These tools will make little difference. It is what it is. I'll buy one eventually for Halo 5...but I know not to buy it for outstanding visuals or UI.
    How about GPU? Having less compute units? 12 vs 18 of PS4.

    Power difference is around 40-50 percent counting OS/Kinect reserved GPU.
    Last edited by AttackTitan; 04-08-2014 at 01:53.

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    Did u watch the vid bro?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    Did u watch the vid bro?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Do you logic bro? Giving "console like API" to console which it already have console API doesnt refer much benefit.

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    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    No.

    This will increase performance on Xbox One, but anybody buying what this guy is selling needs to tone down their expectations.

    Nowhere near what he's talking about, I most sincerely doubt it. Makes zero sense.
    Last edited by Vulgotha; 04-08-2014 at 02:59.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    Do you logic bro? Giving "console like API" to console which it already have console API doesnt refer much benefit.

    He said that X1 didn't have it and that they were only using 1 stack.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    It seems like it's something popping up every other week about how the xbox is not as weak as we were led to believe.


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    Another *JumpIf NotZero* response on DualShockers



    In case anyone can actually admit they aren't a programmer, but still wants to know what this is all about, I'll do my best to explain, briefly.... (I'm a low level hardware programmer, I don't program for DirectX, all below is just my actually-educated take on it)

    * DX12 is introducing a new way to program for GPUs. As code has become more complex the old way of programming is becoming less efficient. MS is estimating that in most games, frame to frame, about 90% of the code is the same. This makes perfect sense, engines do this naturally of course, even between same-engine games the majority of the rendering will look familiar. The Last Of Us code knows how to make a Last of Us frame, and that doesn't change for the most part. DX12 is introducing "bundles" that highly optimize this process.

    * Bundling code wouldn't do much on it's own though, besides making the code look easier to read and change for the dev (so like OpenGL's version of bundles, there is a benefit in usability). So the cool part is that MS/DX12 has devised a way to use the CPU to auto-optimize the time, the order, the priority, where the results are stored, and how to que up the next instruction. This is CPU heavy. It's using the CPU to allow the GPU to run at a higher efficiency.

    * Ok, but the CPU is a finite resource too! You can't just fall back on the CPU to help keep the GPU fed and churning along, it's not like the CPU is just sitting idle. So... Another aspect of DX12 is that it's designed to not only reduce the overhead on the CPU (see Mantle), but it's being implemented as way to improve the parallelism of all the cores (see the DX12 launch slides where one CPU core is always loaded far higher than the rest, much more equally loaded after DX12). By reducing the dependance on the core assigned to the "main game loop" which runs at 1.75/1.6Ghz X1/PS4 respectively, they are breaking the load down across all available game cores. This increased ability to push parallel tasks means a huge increase in effective CPU throughput. This is why we even have multiple CPU cores of course. DX12 allows for benefit from them.

    * So now DX12 is helping load the GPU at the cost of CPU while taking that new CPU load and spreading out across cores (see article and slides above). But... DX12 is also adding new rendering techniques like the previous versions of DirectX. So, the new effects that came with DX9, 10, 11... There are new versions for 12 as well. These have not yet been detailed. What remains to be seen is if they are just updated versions of 11.2/existing hardware functions (hardware tiling, etc) or if MS included the new DX12 hardware in the X1 SoC. They were developing the two concurrently for the past 5 years... So it's very likely to me they would have included them together. No guarantee.

    * DX12 is also doing something cool with ram management. By loading the CPU heavy with GPU efficiency tasks, the CPU is now keeping track of the CPU and the GPU's memory requirements. So it's the ideal time to schedule/execute tasks and move memory around. Something that often gets REALLY misconstrued is the "ONLY" 32mb of ESRAM the X1 has. DX12 is being shown to have the ability to dynamically move data on a predictive nature based on... bundles. What they are saying is that the system and dev will be able to make sure the right memory is where it needs to be when it needs to be. For this, the X1 would utilize the "Move Engines" / DMA controllers so that the CPU and GPU both while busy doing tasks, the DMA is loading and unloading from system ram and ESRAM all the time. It doesn't matter that you have a 32mb plate and want to eat an elephant, you do it the same way everytime - you eat it one bite (byte, heh) at a time.

    * In reply to the author's notes and like minded to another poster here... Remember all that CPU loading DX12 is now doing? Remember that the X1 has a slightly faster processor than other consoles? What else helps with CPU utilization? Cloud offloading (see Titanfall's AI). If you have a system that you know is going to load the CPU very heavily in order to massively improve efficiency on the GPU... You try and off load things like map generation, AI, NPCs, physics, and whatever else you can to the network/cloud. Besides pulling load from the CPU, could compute could be a huge benefit for realism later on (see latest Cloud Compute building destruction physics example), and right now it's just awesome for reduced lag. This is an interesting advantage for MS as they are the only console player currently with access to a network that can make this possible.

    So... That should be about it. There is a WHOLE LOT of wait and see here. But what is for sure, is that this is a MAJOR shift in technology here (at the DX12 reveal AMD saying "it's like getting four generations are hardware ahead today"). So while it MAY or MAY NOT "double performance" on X1. I think it's clear it's going to be a big deal. With next wave games like Wolfenstien and Sniper3 already 1080p on X1 just with more time over launch games, or better MS tools, or removed kinect/app/OS reservation (we really don't know the answer to which) it seems to me, that DX12 will firmly cement 1080p for future X1 games (see Phil Spencer's comments implying we're in the 360-Perfect Dark Zero phase right now and not the 360-Halo4 stage). Now... Before the fanboys jump in with some propaganda that doesn't work on anyone but the extreme base, does it really hurt you if X1 games are 1080p? No, it helps you. I fully expect PS4 games to remain 1080p as well. It's not a competition. If you'd like, you can comfort yourselves with obscure hardware specifications I guess.

    TL;DR: it doesn't matter what DX12 is doing if you aren't a game programmer. Short story is MS does seem to have a plan, while I'll admit it's clear both consoles were launched early, it does seem that MS has a plan in place for their hardware decisions they've made. But... If you see a fanboy immediately coming here to downplay DX12... Well, that just confirms it's a pretty big deal.

    This all might not happen the way MS is planning for, wait and see. Sorry, I can't write briefly to save my life!
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

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    Remember folks, these guys (MS), they created DX, the standard API's that everyone programs against. they know what they're talking about.


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    So wizard $#@! is back?




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    But... If you see a fanboy immediately coming here to downplay DX12.Well, that just confirms it's a pretty big deal.
    how did he come to this conclusion? Gamers downplay everything, Watch Dogs, ME3 story, x coming to Y, etc etc. Doesn't mean they're always right, or that their assertions are always warranted.

    And also, assuming everyone that downplays (or rather, not agreeing) == fanboy now? Yeah, I'm guessing made out of the same mettle of overly defensive guys/girls everywhere...

    How is this "confirmation"? Seems like I can make any formula up and use that as confirmation.

    I'll try:

    "If someone defends this here again then it means they're here just to troll and are insecure about gaming; instead of just gaming on, sales and hardware limitations be damned"


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    Last edited by Admartian; 04-08-2014 at 04:35.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PS4freak View Post
    So wizard $#@! is back?
    there will continue to be claims of untapped wizard $#@! in the forseeable future. it's all just a ruse.

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    Can't wait for dx13 XBo will have 10x power with dx13 for sure'!!!!
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    Also had a thoguht.

    Wasn't the previous logic, I forget who's nugget it was, but in a previous thread:
    "if PS4 is indeed more powerful, thus having better performing games;
    better performing games doesn't mean more fun"

    (^Or to that effect)



    Does that 'logic' still apply if the XB1 does DOUBLE/TRIPLE/INFINITY-zor in performance?

    {Submit your mental gymnastics here}

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    My PC and xb1 is ready for dx12. Its all good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian View Post
    Also had a thoguht.

    Wasn't the previous logic, I forget who's nugget it was, but in a previous thread:
    "if PS4 is indeed more powerful, thus having better performing games;
    better performing games doesn't mean more fun"

    (^Or to that effect)



    Does that 'logic' still apply if the XB1 does DOUBLE/TRIPLE/INFINITY-zor in performance?

    {Submit your mental gymnastics here}
    Everyone knows that was substance.

    And of course it's not going to apply being that ms would have the upper hand.

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