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  1. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    mainstream titles always have long legs. i was right about this one


    That's the UK, no idea how it is in the US, but if it keeps bubbling, it can only be a good thing for the system.

    I never expected it to be a huge systems seller day one, but if it is any good, new IP can have an impact on console sales every month.
    Look at the original Halo.
    Its a tough ask for any New IP to launch as a system seller. People talk about Gears, but MS had the luxury with Gears of having a years headstart of console owners who were primed and starved of quality titles.

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    Well with the future Titanfalls going multiplatform it should be a successful permanent series then.

  3. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Well with the future Titanfalls going multiplatform it should be a successful permanent series then.
    My understanding is it's one drawback is it needs more content. Publishers need to be weary of nickel and dimeing us consumers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    My understanding is it's one drawback is it needs more content. Publishers need to be weary of nickel and dimeing us consumers.
    Yeah thats true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Yeah thats true.
    I do wonder if that was the strategy going in knowing it would be bundled.
    Make the money off the DLC?
    Although it's not exactly new for these guys coming from COD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I do wonder if that was the strategy going in knowing it would be bundled. Make the money off the DLC? Although it's not exactly new for these guys coming from COD.
    Yeah the COD series has always been the king of milking the customers. lol In fact I just read that COD has some marijuana themed custom camo you can buy called 'blunt force.' lol
    Last edited by mistercrow; 04-28-2014 at 04:31.

  7. #432
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    same thing happened with the PS3 games. each time a big game came out, they weren't exactly system sellers. the games themselves sold well but the system kind of sold more or less the same. there are so many changes that happen (generally similar yoy) throughout the year that sometimes it's just difficult to know if something really put a dent in hardware sales.

    over time, titanfall will become a reason to get the X1. as more games come out, it will help the hardware more.

    which is why, mynd, i always disagree with you about exclusives not having an impact in the later years of the console life cycle. that is bull

  8. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    same thing happened with the PS3 games. each time a big game came out, they weren't exactly system sellers. the games themselves sold well but the system kind of sold more or less the same. there are so many changes that happen (generally similar yoy) throughout the year that sometimes it's just difficult to know if something really put a dent in hardware sales.

    over time, titanfall will become a reason to get the X1. as more games come out, it will help the hardware more.

    which is why, mynd, i always disagree with you about exclusives not having an impact in the later years of the console life cycle. that is bull
    I think I said they are far more important at the beginning of the cycle.
    I really do believe they have less impact at the end than they do at the beginning.
    In fact going by your amortization there, you do as well.
    A game released closer to the beginning of the gen has for more impact over the lifetime of the gen, simply due to life cycle.

  9. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I think I said they are far more important at the beginning of the cycle.
    I really do believe they have less impact at the end than they do at the beginning.
    In fact going by your amortization there, you do as well.
    A game released closer to the beginning of the gen has for more impact over the lifetime of the gen, simply due to life cycle.
    we will continue to agree to disagree.

    e.g. TLOU has had a much bigger impact from the moment it was launched to even now, than TF has had.

    in your face.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    we will continue to agree to disagree.

    e.g. TLOU has had a much bigger impact from the moment it was launched to even now, than TF has had.

    in your face.
    Really? How do yo know? I think Titan-fall has had a bigger effect in the 6 weeks its been out vs what TLOU did in it's 6 weeks out.
    And I suspect 2 years from now, it will have a bigger impact on sales than the PS3 version of TLOU ever did.
    But you are comparing the pinnacle of Sony studios vs a new studio.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-28-2014 at 21:46.

  11. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Really? How do yo know? I think Titan-fall has had a bigger effect in the 6 weeks its been out vs what TLOU did in it's 6 weeks out.
    And I suspect 2 years from now, it will have a bigger impact on sales than the PS3 version of TLOU ever did.
    But you are comparing the pinnacle of Sony studios vs a new studio.
    New studio? By name only. They've been around a while. At least the core of that.

    That'll be like saying ND changes their name to Dumptruck Biz Industries and them being claimed as newbies or new.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian View Post
    New studio? By name only. They've been around a while. At least the core of that.

    That'll be like saying ND changes their name to Dumptruck Biz Industries and them being claimed as newbies or new.
    Rubbish, it would be like if half the leads left at Naughty Dog and formed their own company and then employed a whole heap of new people to help them.

    Oh wait...some of thats already happened

    Too soon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Really? How do yo know? I think Titan-fall has had a bigger effect in the 6 weeks its been out vs what TLOU did in it's 6 weeks out.
    lol there's no real way to prove any of our claims. it was just my personal opinion that TLOU really defined the last year of the PS3. Everyone has been talking about the game...it made PS3 look victorious compared to the 360. that is an achievement. Without TLOU, people would have UC3 to go with, which wouldn't be saying much.

    you don't understand the impact games can make at any given point, now if you want to argue that the relative advantage is in the beginning, yes, i will agree there but really, it still matters even that late and TLOU proved that. it was not only a GotY, it won numerous awards, really showed promise in ND that they could tackle new things.

    you can't sit here and tell me that TLOU wasn't as important as the first UC game or the first exclusives on PS3...heck, I'd say it was more important. it sealed the deal imo. it's the last exclusive i want to still play. and i usually don't care much about Sony's exclusives.

    oh and it just passed 6m in sales...that's as good as any other exclusive out last generation. maybe a couple or so games may have had a couple more millions but the point is that exclusives are still relevant, you are saying that they aren't, to a point where they are moot...i'm saying they aren't moot and while i understand it's difficult to be relevant especially this late into the game, it's not always the case and it doesn't hurt to keep pushing your console because even if the game had not sold as much or even received the praise that it did, it made your user base "happy"...i guess for xbox users, Xbox Live and Network games are enough but as a Sony user, I want more than that so we may have different standards.

    however speaking from the market point of view, there's no bad time to release a game to keep your users happy. TLOU proves this.
    And I suspect 2 years from now, it will have a bigger impact on sales than the PS3 version of TLOU ever did.
    you do realize that TF2 will be out by then? they are going to likely follow the route of MW with release schedules. and guess what, TLOU isn't even an MP game and it's already causing more buzz with the PS4 version.
    But you are comparing the pinnacle of Sony studios vs a new studio.
    a new studio yes but they're not new developers and they are backed by MS and EA.

  14. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Rubbish, it would be like if half the leads left at Naughty Dog and formed their own company and then employed a whole heap of new people to help them.

    Oh wait...some of thats already happened

    Too soon?
    Where are you getting half from?

    And working for Visceral >>>>>>> making Kinect (actual) rubbish.
    (sorry Rare...)
    not soon enough..
    Stones in glass house or summit..



    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

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    well he did say "some of that" which would imply less than half...but i still don't agree...while they may have been talented people, they didn't make ND what it is today. ND has a lot more going on than just good people, their culture helps people realize their potential that they may not have in other places. the fact that some of these people are leaving could be that they either want more money, a deal that offers them to run their own dept/team or they just didn't agree with the direction...either way, it shows that ND makes talented people into gems that supposedly everyone else wants.

    think of it like the daily show with jon stewart...can you guess how many correspondences went on to making their own shoes and even movies?

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    Before this becomes some quasi debate of math and what fraction each staff member has left has become, let's nip it now.






    Cool?
    Cool.

    #IndieStation4 and proud of it.

  17. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    lol there's no real way to prove any of our claims. it was just my personal opinion that TLOU really defined the last year of the PS3. Everyone has been talking about the game...it made PS3 look victorious compared to the 360. that is an achievement. Without TLOU, people would have UC3 to go with, which wouldn't be saying much.

    you don't understand the impact games can make at any given point, now if you want to argue that the relative advantage is in the beginning, yes, i will agree there but really, it still matters even that late and TLOU proved that. it was not only a GotY, it won numerous awards, really showed promise in ND that they could tackle new things.
    Satiating ones desire for a new game, isn't the same as creating the desire for a console.
    In many cases pushing exclusives out at the end of generation is preaching to the converted.
    Games like TLOU true impact will be in the following year or two and how long the PS3 continues to sell.

    In truth, Sony just cut all aspects of that off by announcing a PS4 version.

    you can't sit here and tell me that TLOU wasn't as important as the first UC game or the first exclusives on PS3...heck, I'd say it was more important. it sealed the deal imo. it's the last exclusive i want to still play. and i usually don't care much about Sony's exclusives.
    Unless you bought your PS3 at the end of console cycle, then it really didn't fulfill its job as an exclusive, at a time when, well you could pick up any number of games.
    oh and it just passed 6m in sales...that's as good as any other exclusive out last generation. maybe a couple or so games may have had a couple more millions but the point is that exclusives are still relevant, you are saying that they aren't, to a point where they are moot...i'm saying they aren't moot and while i understand it's difficult to be relevant especially this late into the game, it's not always the case and it doesn't hurt to keep pushing your console because even if the game had not sold as much or even received the praise that it did, it made your user base "happy"...i guess for xbox users, Xbox Live and Network games are enough but as a Sony user, I want more than that so we may have different standards.

    however speaking from the market point of view, there's no bad time to release a game to keep your users happy. TLOU proves this.
    you do realize that TF2 will be out by then? they are going to likely follow the route of MW with release schedules. and guess what, TLOU isn't even an MP game and it's already causing more buzz with the PS4 version.
    a new studio yes but they're not new developers and they are backed by MS and EA.
    I don't think you understand what an exclusive job is then.
    It not to fullfill or "seal the deal" on a generation, thats how you feel about a particular game or generation, that has nothing to do with the reasons why we have exclusive studios in the first place.

    An exclusives job is:

    1/ To provide leadership in quality of standards of presentation, and technical capabilities of a system. To "show boat" what the system can do.

    2/ To fill a gap in the market due to lack of 3rd party games in a particular genre.

    3/To provide a reason for buyers to purchase a system.

    4/ To provide the purchaser enjoyment.


    Now you look at those points, specifically point 1 and 2 and they are FAR more important at the beginning of a generation. If you cant show off what your system is capable of, then your going to be stuck with ports, and you also going to be stuck with a rather low standard of game ports. It one of the key reaosns the Wii U isnt selling, no one looks at a Wii U game and goes "whoa check this out". They see Super mario in high res. big whoop.

    Point 2 is highly important as well at this stage of the generation. There is bugger all games out on the system, you need ot be able to support it with titles untill 3rd party kicks in.

    Point 3 is kind of obvious.

    Point 4 will never go away, this will always be important.

    So yes, while you focus on Point 4, Sony just took Point 3 away from you and gave it to the PS4. And points 1 and 2 didn't need to be done when you launch a new games console 5 months later.


    P.S. On the whole ND thing and you two take things way too serious LOL, take the ribbing and leave it as a joke.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-28-2014 at 22:24.

  18. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Really? How do yo know? I think Titan-fall has had a bigger effect in the 6 weeks its been out vs what TLOU did in it's 6 weeks out. And I suspect 2 years from now, it will have a bigger impact on sales than the PS3 version of TLOU ever did. But you are comparing the pinnacle of Sony studios vs a new studio.
    No more than you know that it didnt. lol Talk about some wild speculation. Lmao! Let me know when Titanfall sells 6 million copies. lol But I do hope to see more games like these. But only one of those two series is going multiplatform while the other one never will. So PS4 will have the best of both worlds. Edit - just saw admartians post. Nuff said.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 04-28-2014 at 22:48.

  19. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Satiating ones desire for a new game, isn't the same as creating the desire for a console.
    In many cases pushing exclusives out at the end of generation is preaching to the converted.
    Games like TLOU true impact will be in the following year or two and how long the PS3 continues to sell.

    In truth, Sony just cut all aspects of that off by announcing a PS4 version.


    Unless you bought your PS3 at the end of console cycle, then it really didn't fulfill its job as an exclusive, at a time when, well you could pick up any number of games.


    I don't think you understand what an exclusive job is then.
    It not to fullfill or "seal the deal" on a generation, thats how you feel about a particular game or generation, that has nothing to do with the reasons why we have exclusive studios in the first place.

    An exclusives job is:

    1/ To provide leadership in quality of standards of presentation, and technical capabilities of a system. To "show boat" what the system can do.

    2/ To fill a gap in the market due to lack of 3rd party games in a particular genre.

    3/To provide a reason for buyers to purchase a system.

    4/ To provide the purchaser enjoyment.


    Now you look at those points, specifically point 1 and 2 and they are FAR more important at the beginning of a generation. If you cant show off what your system is capable of, then your going to be stuck with ports, and you also going to be stuck with a rather low standard of game ports. It one of the key reaosns the Wii U isnt selling, no one looks at a Wii U game and goes "whoa check this out". They see Super mario in high res. big whoop.

    Point 2 is highly important as well at this stage of the generation. There is bugger all games out on the system, you need ot be able to support it with titles untill 3rd party kicks in.

    Point 3 is kind of obvious.

    Point 4 will never go away, this will always be important.

    So yes, while you focus on Point 4, Sony just took Point 3 away from you and gave it to the PS4. And points 1 and 2 didn't need to be done when you launch a new games console 5 months later.


    P.S. On the whole ND thing and you two take things way too serious LOL, take the ribbing and leave it as a joke.
    it's funny because you have just deconstructed your own points.

    while there are more reasons to put out exclusives, for the sake of the argument we can keep it locked to your 4 points.

    1) To provide leadership in quality of standards of presentation, and technical capabilities of a system. To "show boat" what the system can do.

    what the **** do you think TLOU is?

    2) To fill a gap in the market due to lack of 3rd party games in a particular genre.

    again, isn't that what the game is doing? TLOU seems to be a very unique game seeing how simple their concepts are and how saturated the zombie/survival market is.

    3) To provide a reason for buyers to purchase a system.

    Ok, so you're saying that coming out on the PS4 will make those users buy a PS4. Hey job well done! ****, one could only hope they bought a PS4 instead! but guess what? Whoever wanted to buy the game, already bought it. The sales have now saturated. I don't see the issue. and I don't see how putting out on the PS4 deters anything. If someone wants a PS3, it won't be for one game, mynd, that was the whole point of this discussion. that's where it stemmed from.

    If someone wants a PS3, they aren't going to buy a PS4 just because one game got ported out on it...especially since the PS3 version is cheap right now. that logic makes no sense. PS3 has plenty more to offer than just one game. my point was that it provides everything that you need from an exclusive and it keeps the PS3 relevant. could you tell me the last 360 game that received nearly the same awards or buzz? thank you.

    4) To provide the purchaser enjoyment.

    and to keep them loyal.

    like i said, we will continue to argue, at this point, i've realized that you don't expect much out of a console maker and that's fine.

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    The Rock wants to know one thing.
    The ROCK wants to know.
    Have you seen it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post

    The Rock wants to know one thing.
    The ROCK wants to know.
    Have you seen it?
    they saw titanfall, and said, "PASS"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrin8X View Post
    they saw titanfall, and said, "PASS"
    But XZibit heard you like Titans..

    So he put Titanfall in a Titanwall so you could run on walls while you're fightin' a Titan (named the PS4).

    IF YOU SMELLLLLL ELELELELELELLLL
    What the ROCK
    is
    cookin'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post
    The Rock wants to know one thing. The ROCK wants to know. Have you seen it?
    The Rock says drop a Titan on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    like i said, we will continue to argue, at this point, i've realized that you don't expect much out of a console maker and that's fine.
    Nailed the point of some Xbox's fans expectation.

    They are ok with some temporary bought off exclusive in beginning of console start and ok with exclusive drought for the rest of the console life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    it's funny because you have just deconstructed your own points.

    while there are more reasons to put out exclusives, for the sake of the argument we can keep it locked to your 4 points.

    1) To provide leadership in quality of standards of presentation, and technical capabilities of a system. To "show boat" what the system can do.

    what the **** do you think TLOU is?

    2) To fill a gap in the market due to lack of 3rd party games in a particular genre.

    again, isn't that what the game is doing? TLOU seems to be a very unique game seeing how simple their concepts are and how saturated the zombie/survival market is.

    3) To provide a reason for buyers to purchase a system.

    Ok, so you're saying that coming out on the PS4 will make those users buy a PS4. Hey job well done! ****, one could only hope they bought a PS4 instead! but guess what? Whoever wanted to buy the game, already bought it. The sales have now saturated. I don't see the issue. and I don't see how putting out on the PS4 deters anything. If someone wants a PS3, it won't be for one game, mynd, that was the whole point of this discussion. that's where it stemmed from.

    If someone wants a PS3, they aren't going to buy a PS4 just because one game got ported out on it...especially since the PS3 version is cheap right now. that logic makes no sense. PS3 has plenty more to offer than just one game. my point was that it provides everything that you need from an exclusive and it keeps the PS3 relevant. could you tell me the last 360 game that received nearly the same awards or buzz? thank you.

    4) To provide the purchaser enjoyment.

    and to keep them loyal.

    like i said, we will continue to argue, at this point, i've realized that you don't expect much out of a console maker and that's fine.
    <sighs> I didnt say it wasn't important at the end of the cycle I said it was FAR MORE IMPORTANT and the begining of the cycle.
    But whatever.

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