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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    I speak for myself and perhaps others that share my opinion when I say, I'm less concerned that these people left because they wanted to broaden their horizons and more concerned over how it impacts the game we now know is on its way. Chances are good if we didn't get that teaser trailer already, these concerns wouldn't really be there. It all comes down to how far out the game was/is from release, and how much further out it now becomes due to these staffing changes.

    Additionally there is also a slight worry that there is some sort of drama happening at ND. This company receives high praise for it's products on playstation. And if anyone watched the TLOU documentary, you'd remember the staff discussing how laid back the environment was and how everyone was encouraged to voice opinions about how something was being done. These staffing changes aren't some 'sweeping layoff' phase occuring at end of fiscal year for purposes of share/stock prices and company worth. This is a snow ball affect as we've been seeing it, of individuals leaving and more following, though this dude was clearly 'recast'.

    I know I'll get flak over this comparison, but its the best I can come up with.
    If one was to compare it to say the best pve raiding guild in a particular MMORPG suddenly having drama amongst a couple major players....there is always a worry that if things don't settle down, people start leaving. If enough people leave, said guild disbands.
    Noone wants to see a good company 'disband' due to a falling out between it's 'major players'.

    Again, please pardon the example. I know people will rush here and say the comparison is flawed and it likely is. But was all I could come up with lol.
    well yes it is flawed because there's hardly any money involved in a guild/raid.

    unless you consider virtual gold as real money...which in some sense it can be seen but really not to everyone. i'd rather just grind.

    i think your example would fit MW team more. because their bosses left and they took people with them. that is an example of how companies disband and they did.

    here, there was a change and that's it. we are talking about a professional environment. people aren't just going to get up and leave, they are making good money there...now if ND was just being poorly managed (which doesn't seem to be the case as of yet) then I would be concerned. they have a great environment there, if anything, others now have the opportunity to move forward because there are spots to fill!

    i think people who are freaking out have not been in a professional environment because this is normal and these things aren't always bad.

    it's best that people work at something they fully want to commit to. if those people want to do something else, it's better they leave than not innovate or be creative with their work.

    they are in it to make money, they will do their best to innovate. so until we know for sure that UC4 sucks ass, let's calm down.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locomotive View Post
    It's not dumb but it is an overreaction.

    He's right...ppl change jobs. Then....when you're successful at what you do...like these ppl (aside from the actor) then everyone and their brother wants you. Then also...when you're successful....you want to challenge yourself in a new setting on a new project.

    The other guy is right to.....she had a chance to do her own Star Wars game....or ANOTHER Uncharted.

    Think about all that.

    It's really quite typical of the business world. Does it suck? Sure...those are good ppl that aren't at a Sony company anymore making Sony games. But it's not like theres something bad going on that none of us know about....it's just business as usual.
    People do change jobs, but when it's a flock of people leaving one after another. Overreacting or not. There should be some concern. Hopefully Uncharted 4 doesn't suffer.

    It's just weird that all of the sudden a few people just leaves a game company within weeks of each other.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkarEffect View Post
    People do change jobs, but when it's a flock of people leaving one after another. Overreacting or not. There should be some concern. Hopefully Uncharted 4 doesn't suffer.

    It's just weird that all of the sudden a few people just leaves a game company within weeks of each other.
    no it's not weird because if you had noticed, some of the top tiered people left also from Sony and MS. there is a shift going on and some people who were there the entire last generation, are moving on to other things.

    these people would either stay there and not be able to possibly have full control over what they want to do or they may have just run out of ideas. it's normal to move on sometimes, even if you were working at a top tiered company.

    do people really think all the people that worked on GTA 3 worked on GTA 5? lol. not likely. i wouldn't be surprised if Rockstar of today does not resemble Rockstar of a decade ago. That doesn't mean that they can't continue to make great games.

    A lot of people are moving to smaller projects that may give them more freedom and less stress. e.g. Kevin Levine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    no it's not weird because if you had noticed, some of the top tiered people left also from Sony and MS. there is a shift going on and some people who were there the entire last generation, are moving on to other things.

    these people would either stay there and not be able to possibly have full control over what they want to do or they may have just run out of ideas. it's normal to move on sometimes, even if you were working at a top tiered company.

    do people really think all the people that worked on GTA 3 worked on GTA 5? lol. not likely. i wouldn't be surprised if Rockstar of today does not resemble Rockstar of a decade ago. That doesn't mean that they can't continue to make great games.

    A lot of people are moving to smaller projects that may give them more freedom and less stress. e.g. Kevin Levine.
    Who is Kevin Levine?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    Who is Kevin Levine?
    sorry, ken levine lol.

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    The only thing that matters is what ND shows at E3. There are lots of bull shots of game characters, like the new CoD, and we all know by now, the game graphics never look that good plus being able to see somebodies' pores have not been a requirement of any action video game I have played. Still, when Uncharted was first revealed, it was a jaw dropper and the graphics retained a high fidelity level from bullshots to gameplay. And with each sequel, there have been more and more graphics improvements, to the point TLOU split off with a new IP and even more jaw dropping beautiful graphics. Past history indicates Uncharted PS4 is not going to go backwards graphically and that will be the indication of change in art direction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    sorry, ken levine lol.
    People need to stop apologizing for Ken Latrine.
    And yes that how his name should be spelt.
    Bioshock pfttt.
    Now there is a guy who knew he was making **** games and just shut his studio down.

    We wont really know how people leaving will affect the game, but again I';ll go back to what I said previoulsy.

    Naughty Dog didn't have two full teams, they had two teams of key people so they could move from one project to the other relatively quickly, the "workers" were still the same. The artist and animators were only one team, but the "leads" were all doubled up.
    When you move back to one team, something has to give.

  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    People need to stop apologizing for Ken Latrine.
    And yes that how his name should be spelt.
    Bioshock pfttt.
    Now there is a guy who knew he was making **** games and just shut his studio down.

    We wont really know how people leaving will affect the game, but again I';ll go back to what I said previoulsy.

    Naughty Dog didn't have two full teams, they had two teams of key people so they could move from one project to the other relatively quickly, the "workers" were still the same. The artist and animators were only one team, but the "leads" were all doubled up.
    When you move back to one team, something has to give.
    bioshock was a little disappointing and yes, i think he knew his team was getting too big so it was probably a good decision. but yeah, **** happens, we'll see how UC4 is and then come back to this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    bioshock was a little disappointing and yes, i think he knew his team was getting too big so it was probably a good decision. but yeah, **** happens, we'll see how UC4 is and then come back to this.
    I really do think this is just Naughty Dog readjusting back to being one team. I don think it will affect Uncharted at all.

  11. #60
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    also we'll see how lack of Henig affects the script...though i think they will do fine. there are plenty of awesome writers out there...just hard to find in the gaming world but when you are doing well as a developer, your publisher will spend more money to get the best people working with you.

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    Come on, guys, if Neil Druckmann (Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us) is still making games at Naughty Dog, there's nothing to worry about.
    Thanks to Kwes for the avatar and Sylar for the signature!


  13. #62
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    Who is Neil Druckmann lol

  14. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    no it's not weird because if you had noticed, some of the top tiered people left also from Sony and MS. there is a shift going on and some people who were there the entire last generation, are moving on to other things.

    these people would either stay there and not be able to possibly have full control over what they want to do or they may have just run out of ideas. it's normal to move on sometimes, even if you were working at a top tiered company.

    do people really think all the people that worked on GTA 3 worked on GTA 5? lol. not likely. i wouldn't be surprised if Rockstar of today does not resemble Rockstar of a decade ago. That doesn't mean that they can't continue to make great games.

    A lot of people are moving to smaller projects that may give them more freedom and less stress. e.g. Kevin Levine.
    I hope your right and nothing suffers for this madness.

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    If anybody bothered to follow the social media chain on this topic, it was initially being reported as layoffs by some guy named Dodd on Neogaf. That proved to be totally false.

    If you look at the people that have left, they all went immediately into other projects and this art director is working on a title for Playstation consoles.

    This happens with a lot of projects and people in the video game industry. It isn't like being a factory worker inspecting widget defects for 40 years. These are very creative people and they need artistic freedom.

    It was just like Bungie with Halo. Bungie was basically sick of the same title for 10 years, so they left. It might be said Destiny is like Halo, but its not. It doesn't have a primary protagonist character that has to be carried on from sequel to sequel, instead of going with classes.

    Same thing with Uncharted, some people are getting tired of working on sequels. And the other way to look at this is there were artistic differences between the art direction, plus the people that left were of the opinion the TLOU story was finished, there was no need for a sequel or a movie. It seems like Ellie's story still could open up and progress from where TLOU ended. Just saying, now there is TLOU HD for PS4 and the reason was given that Sony read the forums and people kept asking if they would be able to play it on the PS4.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shepard View Post
    @sainraja Yes, perhaps including the the videos caption title in my post would have lessened the confusion by some. When I post from work it's sometimes the product of being engaged in a few items at once. But I posted this thread the same way I post all my article threads. Source, quote, title.

    I don't post 'hoping' you 'get it'. But I do post with the expectation that everyone involved in the thread is mature enough to perhaps click the bloody source material link if there is an ounce of confusion rather than make accusations against me such as "The op just made up his own inaccurate and misleading title."
    I'm just saying that by including certain pieces of information you can steer the discussion towards the main point instead of having people focus on things that don't matter -- like the topic of the thread (specially since, as you stated, it matches the article, then it's up to you to summarize what the article is about to initiate a discussion.)

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    People need to stop apologizing for Ken Latrine.
    And yes that how his name should be spelt.
    Bioshock pfttt.
    Now there is a guy who knew he was making **** games and just shut his studio down.

    We wont really know how people leaving will affect the game, but again I';ll go back to what I said previoulsy.

    Naughty Dog didn't have two full teams, they had two teams of key people so they could move from one project to the other relatively quickly, the "workers" were still the same. The artist and animators were only one team, but the "leads" were all doubled up.
    When you move back to one team, something has to give.
    I didn't know there was a standard set on what makes a team official. Two teams can be composed of the same "workers" but it's still two different teams. Resources can be shared among the teams. Not sure what your point is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I really do think this is just Naughty Dog readjusting back to being one team. I don think it will affect Uncharted at all.
    This is what I think. When they separated to make U3 and TLOU, U3 suffered. I would assume a big reason for the split was the dev time of PS3 games. If PS4 really is that much easier to develop games for, then it seems like a natural merger to minimize time and maximize talent.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    I didn't know there was a standard set on what makes a team official. Two teams can be composed of the same "workers" but it's still two different teams. Resources can be shared among the teams. Not sure what your point is.
    Because you have two "leads".
    You go from lead artist, to having two lead artists. You go from having two co writers, to four.
    When you go back into one team, you only need one creative director, not two.
    People suddenly find themselves demoted, or out of a job, or simply not getting on well.

  19. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkarEffect View Post
    I hope your right and nothing suffers for this madness.
    something will suffer, i won't deny that, my point is that it's possible that it can be made up by new people and it can go any way 1) better 2) worse 3) same.

    now if we had more info on who they're hiring and what those people's credentials are, then we could speculate more. otherwise, it's the three scenarios and guess what, only one of them is bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Because you have two "leads".
    You go from lead artist, to having two lead artists. You go from having two co writers, to four.
    When you go back into one team, you only need one creative director, not two.
    People suddenly find themselves demoted, or out of a job, or simply not getting on well.
    Ah, I see what you're saying.....but still they were two different teams. I guess what I don't get is how they weren't two full teams -- you were making this distinction.

    They are one company so it's only natural that the two teams will share resources when needed.
    Last edited by sainraja; 04-24-2014 at 16:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    Ah, I see what you're saying.....but still they were two different teams. I guess what I don't get is how they weren't two full teams -- you were making this distinction.

    They are one company so it's only natural that the two teams will share resources when needed.
    If they were two full teams, you wouldn't fold them back into one. We know they weren't two full teams because there were a few tweets about how the entire studio was focused on TLOU later on into the project. I mean it make sense, until you have exactly your gameplay/mechanics/story in place little point in getting modelers and artists in on the act. Content is the biggest resource users, but it cant be done without direction. It is smart to use the same "plebs" to do the heavy lifting, it also means they aren't standing around with their finger up their bum waiting on the bigwigs to decide exactly what the next project is. It just smart resource management. A game maybe 10% inspiration and 90% hard work, but that 90% hard work needs that inspiration to lead it. I mean these modelers and artist literally get a list of stuff and plans to model and are told to get to it. You will have a small team prototyping and demoing and then when your in full swing you have the full team on it.

    I would think 2 successful franchises is more than enough for them to handle at ND. Now that they have both TLOU and Uncharted, combined with the ease of development on the PS4, you really don't need a second team to launch a new franchise.
    Last edited by mynd; 04-25-2014 at 00:34.

  22. #71
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    They are 2 full teams, But they also work on each others projects when crunching to meet deadlines. IF work needs to be done, everyone pitches in to get it done.

    I don't know why its such a big issue that u need to prove there can't be 2 teams at Sony's top tier developer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by victorijapoosp View Post
    They are 2 full teams, But they also work on each others projects when crunching to meet deadlines. IF work needs to be done, everyone pitches in to get it done.

    I don't know why its such a big issue that u need to prove there can't be 2 teams at Sony's top tier developer.

    GEEWIZ... I really do wonder.
    No exactly what you said, is how it worked, yes, come crunch they all work on it, that wasn't my point. I'm not saying its an issue, my point was, two teams back into one obviously isn't working for them, well actually its not working for those people who left obviously. I was trying to point out that your not going to suddenly loose like half your work force by taking two team into one, just those leads are affected.

    I'd also liken into to ND just feeding the industry good people. These guys/gals got to spread their wings and take on more responsibility within ND on respective projects, now they have had a taste of that, they want to spread their wings some more.
    Again, I really don't think this will impact Uncharted development.

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    Just hearing yet another person leaves ND. Their Lead Character Artist - Michael Knowland

    Time to rename ND to "The Last of Us"

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    someone else can take the lead.

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    And yet another person leaves. Still not concerned?

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