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  1. #26
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    So it went from infinite power to just 3X now? Downgrade strikes again.




  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapture View Post
    Controlled demos with any kind of unknown variables and control that we don't know of.

    Where the actual data supporting the hype and promises? How much longer do we need to wait for the games to show off the Cloud?
    We have Forza 5 and Titanfall showing how little use it is in real world even though the devs have tried.

    We already discussed this, cloud at best can only be used for minor background stuff. Then, those background tasks can be done during loading screen to begin with, so will have no impact on graphics/performance what so ever.

    I remember Forza 5 dev saying they can do off track physics on cloud. Game don't even have dynamic light source. It definately is not from lack of trying.
    Last edited by AttackTitan; 04-29-2014 at 02:02.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian View Post
    Did someone say "the power of three"?



    I guess Microsoft is Charmed...http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_Three_(Charmed)


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    I genuinely laughed out loud at that. A charmed reference is mighty fine by me. But apparently I have to spread rep.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Yep we got cloud giving us the power of 3 xbones, throw in some DX12 for another 2 xbones and your one Xbone is now as powerful as 5 Xbones. At 500 dollars thats only 100 dollars for each Xbone.
    That seems like a pretty good deal. I'm in.

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  4. #29
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    Certainly not impossible.
    The limiting things are latency and bandwidth, not the off site computation.

    This means that if something can be made with ~<200ms latency and possibly +~100kB/s traffic it will most likely work.
    So mostly player or view independent things are the easy and obvious ones.

    Here is a dynamic indirect light example.
    https://research.nvidia.com/publicat...time-rendering
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  5. #30
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    ^Don't forget stability and package loss.
    Last edited by K2D; 04-29-2014 at 21:51.

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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlippone View Post
    Certainly not impossible.
    The limiting things are latency and bandwidth, not the off site computation.

    This means that if something can be made with ~<200ms latency and possibly +~100kB/s traffic it will most likely work.
    So mostly player or view independent things are the easy and obvious ones.

    Here is a dynamic indirect light example.
    https://research.nvidia.com/publicat...time-rendering
    So If i am driving a car at 100 mph, and it goes drives into a shadow, then for about 50 feet, my car is shiny.... or the tunnel is shiny as if my car is radiating light in dark tunnel.

    When car I am driving goes into shadow, it still is shiny and later on when I am back in sunlight, then lighting changes as if my car is in shadow.

    Do not think it is useful in ACTUAL gaming.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2D View Post
    ^Don't forget stability and package loss.
    Yup, the data rate must be sustained or nothing really works.

    Anyway, there is a lot of promise in server/cloud based computation, if baseline for network and client machine is met.
    This is true to all systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    So If i am driving a car at 100 mph, and it goes drives into a shadow, then for about 50 feet, my car is shiny.... or the tunnel is shiny as if my car is radiating light in dark tunnel.

    When car I am driving goes into shadow, it still is shiny and later on when I am back in sunlight, then lighting changes as if my car is in shadow.

    Do not think it is useful in ACTUAL gaming.
    That sounds a lot like you would be describing a direct light, which currently is better to handle on client machine unless one has very nice connection etc.

    For indirect lighting approximation the lighting can be done for a volume, so when your car/object moves it gets 'correct' lighting information. (irradiance volumes)
    For fast moving car and it's contribution to indirect light/shadow it would be best to do locally on client.
    Perhaps something like what TloU did for indirect shadows.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlippone View Post
    Yup, the data rate must be sustained or nothing really works.

    Anyway, there is a lot of promise in server/cloud based computation, if baseline for network and client machine is met.
    This is true to all systems.

    That sounds a lot like you would be describing a direct light, which currently is better to handle on client machine unless one has very nice connection etc.

    For indirect lighting approximation the lighting can be done for a volume, so when your car/object moves it gets 'correct' lighting information. (irradiance volumes)
    For fast moving car and it's contribution to indirect light/shadow it would be best to do locally on client.
    Perhaps something like what TloU did for indirect shadows.
    I said shiny. Which refers to reflections.

    Your car may have shadow at correct locations, but your indirect light will never be at right place. In an example of a car, your car will act like a light source inside a tunnel cause it thinks its under sun.

    Your car will be a freaking sun inside a tunnel. You can make plenty of things work, but most of them are not useful and doesnt work way you intended it.

  9. #34
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    The big problem is devs would have to put in the effort to do this. I see this the same as with the PS3 and how it was more powerful. None of the Multi-Platform games took advantage because they wanted parity (and due to time/cost) I see this going the same way, you'll get a handful of Xbox One exclusives that take advantage of it and they'll probably do so really well, but it won't be the norm.

    Also this was way more practical when every box had to be connected to the internet, now that they don't what happens to those not connected? Ooops Sorry? Put a disclaimer on the back of the box that reads "For maximum performance you need to be connected on line" I see it being more useful in that regard to Multiplayer aspects of a game since you know everyone doing that will be connected on line, but for Single player things, I see it being a bit of a problem, only because Dev's can't count on everyone being connected.

    I could be totally wrong here, but those are my concerns about relying on the cloud for more power.

  10. #35
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    yeah, being connected all the time would've made it more justified to use the technique but even then it's not something they can easily utilize...hence the ease-of-development dilemma. so, yeah, now it's just like...it'll be interesting to see which titles use it and to what extent but i doubt it will ever be utilized in more than a handful of titles.

    it's like the power of Cell...yeah, don't know how many titles even used a fraction of its true power...and what possibly could they have done anyway?

  11. #36
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    Cloud computing should be nice especially with the new company they just acquire, but Im more interested in the 50 mcu's.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    Cloud computing should be nice especially with the new company they just acquire, but Im more interested in the 50 mcu's.
    You're talking about things over your head again, aren't you?
    Destiny is going to be EVERYTHING that EA and MS hoped titanfall would be

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    Cloud computing should be nice especially with the new company they just acquire, but Im more interested in the 50 mcu's.
    Pixie dust and sugar plums. Oh brother....lol
    Last edited by mistercrow; 05-03-2014 at 22:24.

  14. #39
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    Wow MS has already confirmed that there is 50 mcu's in the X1 15 of those can offload cpu and gpu task physic and graphics. They never explained or talk about the other 35.

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    Last edited by X2; 05-04-2014 at 16:54.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    Just to clarify the misquote. I believe it is 3 times the CPU and Storage of Xbox One.

    So at best that ix 0.1tflop x3 power, but you can't really use that power effectively what is the point?

    background stuff and/or shorter loading times and etc.

    Won't change the graphics gap...
    http://www.totalxbox.com/54748/xbox-...-in-the-cloud/

    Yeah 3 CPUs and storage equivalents, well that was the wording from last year. If that has changed to the System as a whole then that's a lot of extra cash to pump into the cloud system.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by X2 View Post
    Wow MS has already confirmed that that there is 50 meu ' in the X1 15 of those can offload cpu and gpu task physic and graphics. They never explained or talk about the other 35.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
    Good stuff if true.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub-stance1 View Post
    Good stuff if true.
    why? i thought power didn't matter to you?

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  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    why? i thought power didn't matter to you?
    I'm not massively active here but always lurking, one thing I've come to understand is Sub has to be one of the biggest stealth trolls I've ever seen.

  20. #44
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    Well. There is no clear way to use the power to begin with.

    It is not even matter of "Power can be efficiently utilized if efforts are put"

    We are currently at, "There isn't any clear and efficient way of practically using the power no matter how much effort we put in" stage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    http://www.totalxbox.com/54748/xbox-...-in-the-cloud/

    Yeah 3 CPUs and storage equivalents, well that was the wording from last year. If that has changed to the System as a whole then that's a lot of extra cash to pump into the cloud system.

    At best that is 0.3 tflop that no devs really know how to use...There doesn't seem to be a good use for this power than what we already see on dedicated servers.
    Last edited by AttackTitan; 05-06-2014 at 00:21.

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