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  1. #51
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    unless the game is truly gorgeous and evolutionary in the sense of its scope, i want 60fps.

    also i want 60fps in competitive games regardless.

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    Yeah seriously, no downgrade at all. Stoked.

  3. #53
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    we don't really know if there was a downgrade...yes, it was probably nothing major (if there was one) because we should be able to otherwise spot it visually.

    second, if there was a minor downgrade, that's normal and probably not a bad thing since 30fps vs 60fps is still very useful. if it can be done without any major issues, it's important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    we don't really know if there was a downgrade...yes, it was probably nothing major (if there was one) because we should be able to otherwise spot it visually.



    second, if there was a minor downgrade, that's normal and probably not a bad thing since 30fps vs 60fps is still very useful. if it can be done without any major issues, it's important.
    Yet so many were ready to berate Ubisoft, Watch Dogs, and a game that's not even officially ready

    If the game can handle 60 fps, then I say go for it and let the chips fall where they may.

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    yeah, a change like this doesn't mean anything will be drastically different, other than the frame rate bump, why? because they aren't idiots. they know looks are more important in the end. if they had to heavily downgrade thte game in order to achieve 60fps, they made a big mistake because now people are used to the look the game already had.

    likely what happened was that they were heavily working on the performance and looks of the game and realized they could also achieve some efficiency while they were putting extra effort. or for all we know, this may be the reason for the delay...maybe some finishing touches but maybe they were targetting 60fps but didn't want to tell people that because then people would hold them accountable for it.

    it's odd that someone all of a sudden says the game is 60fps instead of what they originally announced it to be, without any sort of updates or hints as of what they are working to do. so they reoptimized the code, were able to save more resources, the frame rate at this point would jump up automatically.

    but like i said, still possible some little things were maybe downgraded but we'll never know because the game looked far worse 6 months ago...so whatever happened in-between and what the asset quality was supposed to be and what it ended up being, we'll never know.

    but maybe we'll find out looking at the PC version...if there are some noticeable differences in the PC version then we'll know what they gave to achieve 60fps. other than 4K resolution of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Naxi View Post
    Eh, 60 fps is a visual treat in itself, but I agree this game doesn't require it.
    why not? it's a competitive game, it has an online mode, the game needs quick reflexes, it also sometimes has several things going on, if they can achieve it, it's certainly useful.

  6. #56
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    Um the game does not match the initial reveal so that in itself is a downgrade regardless of how you swing it. Why should ubisoft get a pass?

    FACT: watch dogs got a visual downgrade from the initial reveal...simple!

    As for 60fps? Meh, after getting downgraded visually I guess they had some wiggle room to boost up performance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    unless the game is truly gorgeous and evolutionary in the sense of its scope, i want 60fps.

    also i want 60fps in competitive games regardless.
    I'm the same way, I am very surprised at how much the game is being judged before it's even released lol. I mean if you are that disappointed in the downgrade or whatever you want to call it don't buy it then. I'm more excited for the game play than just the visuals, personally.
    Last edited by xkuruptx23; 05-12-2014 at 19:53.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xkuruptx23 View Post
    I'm the same way, I am very surprised at how much the game is being judged before it's even released lol. I mean if you are that disappointed in the downgrade or whatever you want to call it don't buy it then. I'm more excited for the game play then just he visuals, personally.
    Because people are calling it out does not mean they don't want it. As a matter of fact I am heading to gs to complete my preorder...and guess what the division will suffer the same faith, that does not mean it will not be a fun game



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    i thought the visual downgrade was debunked? are there pics that i missed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    Um the game does not match the initial reveal so that in itself is a downgrade regardless of how you swing it. Why should ubisoft get a pass?
    Seems like you're being quite a stickler for something you haven't even witnessed first hand. No one said Ubisoft should get a pass, but the downgrade everyone else (including you) was complaining about was debunked immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    FACT: watch dogs got a visual downgrade from the initial reveal...simple!
    This is true. Though this really shouldn't be that big of a factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    As for 60fps? Meh, after getting downgraded visually I guess they had some wiggle room to boost up performance

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    Concludes my point of how you simply can't please everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    Because people are calling it out does not mean they don't want it. As a matter of fact I am heading to gs to complete my preorder...
    Then those people really shouldn't be complaining. Sounds like hypocrisy to me...

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    and guess what the division will suffer the same faith, that does not mean it will not be a fun game

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    You're making a claim based off of how it happened to one game? k.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    i thought the visual downgrade was debunked? are there pics that i missed?
    This is another case of the Interwebz that the visual downgrade claim was a rumor and became a factoid before the game releases.

    There is some basis for the rumor. However, one of the problems these days is "game journalists" are really sloppy about their impressions of graphics, when they occur. That is, not distinguishing the level of graphics in scripted cutscenes, single player gameplay and multiplayer gameplay.

    MP is always going to be scaled back on certain features, mainly because the processing time has an effect on the MP gameplay. On PC's, that is where post processing is an option to scale back, shadow quality, motion blur, etc. Certain features are just not that important in MP.

    Scripted cutscenes are using the game engine but more features like lighting effects, facial and character animation, higher rez textures, etc. can be used since there is no variable with the gameplayer changing camera views or inputting game reactions.

    The other thing that needs to be done is specifically stating what platform the gameplay capture is from, especially if it is a high end gaming PC.

    This appears to be the source of the visual downgrade rumor. The E3 2012 on-stage demo was probably on a very high end gaming PC, which was an i7 with two GTX780 cards back then. It is obvious, some effects have been scaled back to the release candidate being shown recently. The main thing to notice is a lot of the weather dynamics and dramatic lighting have been cranked back but it might have been a limitation for intense interaction in an open world game (too many things going on, loading down the gameplay).

    Don't know how anybody can say 1080p and 60fps isn't more important than individual leaves blowing around with individual raindrops hitting them but at 720p. Here is a comparison of the E3 2012 demo with a recent official PS4 trailer with gameplay:

    E3 2012 reveal


    Recent PS4 game trailer
    Last edited by Bligmerk; 05-12-2014 at 20:26.
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  14. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Seems like you're being quite a stickler for something you haven't even witnessed first hand. No one said Ubisoft should get a pass, but the downgrade everyone else (including you) was complaining about was debunked immediately.



    This is true. Though this really shouldn't be that big of a factor.



    Concludes my point of how you simply can't please everyone.



    Then those people really shouldn't be complaining. Sounds like hypocrisy to me...



    You're making a claim based off of how it happened to one game? k.
    Lol so I shouldn't complain about a product because I will still purchase it? Ok buddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    This is another case of the Interwebz that the visual downgrade claim was a rumor and became a factoid before the game releases.

    There is some basis for the rumor. However, one of the problems these days is "game journalists" are really sloppy about their impressions of graphics, when they occur. That is, not distinguishing the level of graphics in scripted cutscenes, single player gameplay and multiplayer gameplay.

    MP is always going to be scaled back on certain features, mainly because the processing time has an effect on the MP gameplay. On PC's, that is where post processing is an option to scale back, shadow quality, motion blur, etc. Certain features are just not that important in MP.

    Scripted cutscenes are using the game engine but more features like lighting effects, facial and character animation, higher rez textures, etc. can be used since there is no variable with the gameplayer changing camera views or inputting game reactions.

    The other thing that needs to be done is specifically stating what platform the gameplay capture is from, especially if it is a high end gaming PC.

    This appears to be the source of the visual downgrade rumor. The E3 2012 on-stage demo was probably on a very high end gaming PC, which was an i7 with two GTX780 cards back then. It is obvious, some effects have been scaled back to the release candidate being shown recently. The main thing to notice is a lot of the weather dynamics and dramatic lighting have been cranked back but it might have been a limitation for intense interaction in an open world game (too many things going on, loading down the gameplay).

    Don't know how anybody can say 1080p and 60fps isn't more important than individual leaves blowing around with individual raindrops hitting them but at 720p. Here is a comparison of the E3 2012 demo with a recent official PS4 trailer with gameplay:

    E3 2012 reveal


    Recent PS4 game trailer
    so basically there's no proof that PS4 was downgraded...meaning, other than being downgraded regardless because it's not running on a super PC.

    in the end, obviously we'll never really know what was downgraded or was it just the normal downgrade that you'd expect as opposed to the PC version.

    but we need to focus on the fact that the developer chose it this way on the consoles...and they are "generally" better than us at making these decision. so let's see how it looks for you guys and judge it from that. i would judge it against other PS4 games at the moment of its launch.

  16. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    Lol so I shouldn't complain about a product because I will still purchase it? Ok buddy

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    Well i guess either you haven't seen some of the ludicrous posts some people made about this game or are just ignoring them.

    With as many of those who were ready to go with the famous "preorder cancelled" route, I'm not sure what the problem with my statement is here. Why buy if you're (in general) already saying you're going to dislike it?

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    a complaint is fair as long as it's supported. i'm trying to find out if we have a reason to complain. yes, the game sucked in graphics, we already knew that. the point is, did they actually downgrade it for the consoles from their pervious builds or are we comparing it to the official reveal? which is the PC version, which we know they can easily just pile crap on and raise the minimum requirements...

    if the complaint is legit then sure, i just don't think it's evident enough yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Well i guess either you haven't seen some of the ludicrous posts some people made about this game or are just ignoring them.

    With as many of those who were ready to go with the famous "preorder cancelled" route, I'm not sure what the problem with my statement is here. Why buy if you're (in general) already saying you're going to dislike it?
    Ask that to the millions that but cod and Madden every year even tho they **** on it but yet they still buy it. Once again why should watchdogs be any different? I am dissatisfied by the obvious downgrade and I am voicing my opinion about it? What's wrong with that?

    Sufi the devs where adamant that the game was running on a ps4...dev kit. Let's go back to 2012, why did the game wow people so much? It Damn sure was not gameplay, it was the graphics. It got people immediately hyped because the game looked bunkers! Same with the division which arguably looks better than watchdogs, lets see how that pans out compared to the initial "ps4 gameplay reveal trailer"

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    Ask that to the millions that but cod and Madden every year even tho they **** on it but yet they still buy it. Once again why should watchdogs be any different? I am dissatisfied by the obvious downgrade and I am voicing my opinion about it? What's wrong with that?

    Sufi the devs where adamant that the game was running on a ps4...dev kit. Let's go back to 2012, why did the game wow people so much? It Damn sure was not gameplay, it was the graphics. It got people immediately hyped because the game looked bunkers! Same with the division which arguably looks better than watchdogs, lets see how that pans out compared to the initial "ps4 gameplay reveal trailer"

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    so we know for sure that the 2012 reveal was on the PS4 dev kit?

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    Claims ubisoft...which is why people are saying it was downgraded. If they claimed it was running on a high end pc, I don't think much noise would have been made about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    Claims ubisoft...which is why people are saying it was downgraded. If they claimed it was running on a high end pc, I don't think much noise would have been made about it

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    linky? i mean, if that's true then yeah, fair point. but i was under the impression that the 2012 reveal could not have been a PS4 dev kit when PS4 itself was only revealed in 2013.

    didn't think the devs got the kits 2-3 years earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    Ask that to the millions that but cod and Madden every year even tho they **** on it but yet they still buy it. Once again why should watchdogs be any different? I am dissatisfied by the obvious downgrade and I am voicing my opinion about it? What's wrong with that?
    WD to CoD and Madden is not really a fair comparison. Considering it's the first installment of a new series. Unlike those two that get dropped every year. This game would be considered "****" if they had dropped it on launch day like it is. Nothing wrong with expressing dissatisfaction. I wasn't talking about you in particular, anyway. In fact, I wasn't talking about anyone in particular for that matter. That comment went out to anyone who claimed this game is gonna suck becuase the graphics weren't as "beautiful" as something they saw on what could have very well been a PC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    so we know for sure that the 2012 reveal was on the PS4 dev kit?
    I always assumed that it was PC Gameplay.

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    Regardless of if you think it was downgraded or not, the point still stands that at 30fps it could have looked better than it will do at 60fps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Regardless of if you think it was downgraded or not, the point still stands that at 30fps it could have looked better than it will do at 60fps.
    of course it could've. i'm thinking the developer didn't want to deal with optimizing the game. it's a cross-gen, not surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Well i guess either you haven't seen some of the ludicrous posts some people made about this game or are just ignoring them. With as many of those who were ready to go with the famous "preorder cancelled" route, I'm not sure what the problem with my statement is here. Why buy if you're (in general) already saying you're going to dislike it?
    Preorder cancelled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligmerk View Post
    This is another case of the Interwebz that the visual downgrade claim was a rumor and became a factoid before the game releases.

    There is some basis for the rumor. However, one of the problems these days is "game journalists" are really sloppy about their impressions of graphics, when they occur. That is, not distinguishing the level of graphics in scripted cutscenes, single player gameplay and multiplayer gameplay.

    MP is always going to be scaled back on certain features, mainly because the processing time has an effect on the MP gameplay. On PC's, that is where post processing is an option to scale back, shadow quality, motion blur, etc. Certain features are just not that important in MP.

    Scripted cutscenes are using the game engine but more features like lighting effects, facial and character animation, higher rez textures, etc. can be used since there is no variable with the gameplayer changing camera views or inputting game reactions.

    The other thing that needs to be done is specifically stating what platform the gameplay capture is from, especially if it is a high end gaming PC.

    This appears to be the source of the visual downgrade rumor. The E3 2012 on-stage demo was probably on a very high end gaming PC, which was an i7 with two GTX780 cards back then. It is obvious, some effects have been scaled back to the release candidate being shown recently. The main thing to notice is a lot of the weather dynamics and dramatic lighting have been cranked back but it might have been a limitation for intense interaction in an open world game (too many things going on, loading down the gameplay).

    Don't know how anybody can say 1080p and 60fps isn't more important than individual leaves blowing around with individual raindrops hitting them but at 720p. Here is a comparison of the E3 2012 demo with a recent official PS4 trailer with gameplay:

    E3 2012 reveal


    Recent PS4 game trailer
    Well yeah that makes sense because the power GPU in a PS4 and Xbox one is the equivalent to a ADM 7870 I believe, so it's obviously going to look better when ran on TWO GTX 780's.

    And it still don't matter to me, I think they both look amazing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    linky? i mean, if that's true then yeah, fair point. but i was under the impression that the 2012 reveal could not have been a PS4 dev kit when PS4 itself was only revealed in 2013.

    didn't think the devs got the kits 2-3 years earlier.
    Lol link will be hard to come by but it was via Twitter (I think the game director). Should be on gaf somewhere tho

    #Lol@Crow

    ^ps4/x1 same gpu power? When did the power of the cloud get harnessed?

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    Last edited by YoungMullah88; 05-12-2014 at 22:21.

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