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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    Not all games out on the XONE right now use the Kinect, how do they benefit currently?
    Well currently they dont have access to a certian timeslice, its used by the O/S regardless of if a game uses kinect or not, it reserved.
    (since it was required) and you're actually agreeing with me; that is what I was getting at, if there will be improvement it won't simply be because they "unbundled" Kinect. It was something they were working towards.
    Correct, its not so much about the unbundling of Kinect as much as it is about not using it.
    I think those changes have been worked on since launch, and I suspect, they have it now figured out to the point were they could unbundle with out issue (i.e. There is a new dash coming).

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    Just more PR comments.They made a huge mistake thinking Kinect was relevant and are now trying to spin a tale to make getting rid of it a positive. Nothing but backtracking and flip flopping.They are never committed to their product.

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  4. #28
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    so XONE + cloud - Kinect = super performance over 9000!?




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    Quote Originally Posted by Serinous View Post
    so XONE + cloud - Kinect = super performance over 9000!?
    Forgot dx12.

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  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    If your aren't using Kinect, you should have the option to free up those skeletal tracking timeslices.
    This would apply to Kinect and kinectless devices equally. As I said earlier, I think they were already working towards this regardless of the sku.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sure......When everyone else puts a game in, they will read, "Please unplug your Kinect camera so your Xbox One can play this game."

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    to play games up until now that require/support, will need a patch. it's possible some could just remove the kinect features from their games...if they're minimal features.

    but wait, i'm reading the article again and it doesn't mention anywhere that they're actually removing the kinect features from the OS. they may just be removing the thing from the bundle...which makes sense because kinect wasn't required to be on anyway.

    anyone interpreted that differently?

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    sounds like more Cloud magic juice to me.

  10. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos144 View Post
    sounds like more Cloud magic juice to me.
    IF the kinect processing is removed then this will be more significant than any other change so far.

    though reading the article again, i don't think they are going to remove it. i'm still for someone to rebuttal me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal View Post
    Sure......When everyone else puts a game in, they will read, "Please unplug your Kinect camera so your Xbox One can play this game."
    Huh? Does it ask you to do that now when your game doesn't use kinect?

    Just cause its plugged in doesn't mean you have to run its code.

    We have this wonderful piece of code called an if switch.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Huh? Does it ask you to do that now when your game doesn't use kinect?

    Just cause its plugged in doesn't mean you have to run its code.

    We have this wonderful piece of code called an if switch.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    he's not far off but yeah, it wouldn't work that way.

    however, can you see anywhere in the article that states that they will disable Kinect features from the OS?

    it actually seems to say that they are still comitted to it. the only thing it really states is that it's now unbundled.

    can you confirm as well? i just wanted to put an end to this thread lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    he's not far off but yeah, it wouldn't work that way.

    however, can you see anywhere in the article that states that they will disable Kinect features from the OS?

    it actually seems to say that they are still comitted to it. the only thing it really states is that it's now unbundled.

    can you confirm as well? i just wanted to put an end to this thread lol.
    This freeing up has been coming regardless of the unbundling.

    Currently it works like this

    Time slice/resources for GPU
    90% -Your games
    10%- GPU compute for skeletal tracking etc regardless of if your game uses it.


    MS has been talking about freeing up that reserved 10% for some time...

    98-Your game
    2%- O/S use (My guess would be voice recog only).

    you have to remember CPU isn't touched they already reserve 2 cores for that.

    "how will this work when you snap an app?"
    Same way it does now, it goes into constrained mode.



    50% of the GPU is only dedicated to game when you go into it, which frees it up for those who want to use Kinect gestures on the dash/app.

    All MS is saying is, they will give you the option to "opt out" of having that Kinect skeletal tracking running, and it is REGARDLESS of if you have a Kinect or not.

  14. #37
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    How much is Kinect using for system resources then???

    How much would it be freeing up and would this give any advantage to devs?


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  15. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakatomi Uk View Post
    How much is Kinect using for system resources then???

    How much would it be freeing up and would this give any advantage to devs?
    CPU wise, it uses the o/s cpu so thta would be two cores, that wont change regardless.
    But its currently 10% of the GPU.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...ower-for-games

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    Quote Originally Posted by A7MAD View Post
    Supposedly, there's meant to be 10% used for Kinect but I think the developers already are working with 8% anyway, so in essence they'll have access to the other 2% if I remember correctly... What will that help with?

    This was the problem with Don Mattrick's envision of the Xbox brand as opposed to that of J Allard's.

    Microsoft were in a better position to go with more power, instead they went ahead with a camera being the central focus that consumers lost an interest in with the older console prior... X360 Kinect died off fast, so what do they do, make a new camera and gimp the hardware of the console. Stupid/arrogant thinking...



    I don't think it means that necessarily. I understand it to mean that the game won't use Kinect at all so in essence that game will use all resources and basically make Kinect useless whilst playing that game.
    I thought that 10 percent was dedicated to OS, Snap, and kinect. Also thought OS/SNAP was rumored to be the biggest contributor.

    Anyways, MS risk dropping features for all Kinect users at very small gain in GPU... Thats some hard decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Time slice/resources for GPU
    90% -Your games
    10%- GPU compute for skeletal tracking etc regardless of if your game uses it.
    Source please? and how you come to that massive distribution of out of 10, 8 percent being skeletal tracking?

    Few so called insiders were blaming OS/SNAP being big portion of that 10 percent. Maybe you have more official concrete source.

    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos144 View Post
    sounds like more Cloud magic juice to me.
    IF they are about to drop Kinect, then there should be an improvement. Being few percent, it may not be very noticeable, but it is not some fairly tale.
    Last edited by AttackTitan; 05-16-2014 at 04:24.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    I thought that 10 percent was dedicated to OS, Snap, and kinect. Also thought OS/SNAP was rumored to be the biggest contributor.

    Anyways, MS risk dropping features for all Kinect users at very small gain in GPU... Thats some hard decision.



    Source please? and how you come to that massive distribution of out of 10, 8 percent being skeletal tracking?

    Few so called insiders were blaming OS/SNAP being big portion of that 10 percent. Maybe you have more official concrete source.



    IF they are about to drop Kinect, then there should be an improvement. Being few percent, it may not be very noticeable, but it is not some fairly tale.
    Source is above and also again the original DF article.

    I never said anything about 8% being official , but that's what has been rumored. You can treat that as a rumor, but the 10%, that's absolutely fact.

    "Xbox One has a conservative 10 per cent time-sliced reservation on the GPU for system processing. This is used both for the GPGPU processing for Kinect and for the rendering of concurrent system content such as snap mode," Microsoft technical fellow Andrew Goossen told us.
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...one-architects

    I do agree its not going to be a huge game changer, it too small a percentage whatever the actual number is.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-16-2014 at 08:53.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Source is above and also again the original DF article.

    I never said anything about 8% being official , but that's what has been rumored. You can treat that as a rumor, but the 10%, that's absolutely fact.



    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...one-architects

    I do agree its not going to be a huge game changer, it too small a percentage whatever the actual number is.
    I've read that too, but there is absolutely nothing about skeletal tracking there and I was asking about where you got that tracking info.

    "Xbox One has a conservative 10 per cent time-sliced reservation on the GPU for system processing. This is used both for the GPGPU processing for Kinect and for the rendering of concurrent system content such as snap mode"
    At least on the source provided,

    1. Nothing on skeletal tracking.

    2. Nothing on skeletal being even closed to 8%.

    If you are making an assumption that becasue there is GPGPU, that must be used for skeletal tracking only, that is massive assumption.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=GPGP...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

    GPGPU is used for voice recognition as well. Without skeletal tracking to free up the resource, we are back to MS doing PR nonsense over something so imperceptible and unnoticeable. Unless ofc, they meant dropping voice control which still be very small.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AttackTitan View Post
    I've read that too, but there is absolutely nothing about skeletal tracking there and I was asking about where you got that tracking info.


    At least on the source provided,

    1. Nothing on skeletal tracking.

    2. Nothing on skeletal being even closed to 8%.

    If you are making an assumption that becasue there is GPGPU, that must be used for skeletal tracking only, that is massive assumption.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=GPGP...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

    GPGPU is used for voice recognition as well. Without skeletal tracking to free up the resource, we are back to MS doing PR nonsense over something so imperceptible and unnoticeable. Unless ofc, they meant dropping voice control which still be very small.
    I see what your saying.

    My understanding s the GPU slice is used for rendering the o/s windows and kinect functions.
    Now,what kinect functions? Skeletal tracking of VR or both? I'm not sure they have ever expanded on that.

    As for the 8% as I said complete rumor, I wouldn't hold that much faith in it.

    My point wasn't that they could free up x amount of it, but that disabling the skeletal tracking wouldn't be that hard.
    What that would yield in terms of actual performance gain? Only MS really know that answer.

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    Would serve them better if they can free up some resources by abandoning kinect. I don't think people want voice commands at the expense of lower resolution/framerate multiplatform games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
    Would serve them better if they can free up some resources by abandoning kinect. I don't think people want voice commands at the expense of lower resolution/framerate multiplatform games.
    it's going to make it better but not resolve the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    it's going to make it better but not resolve the issue.
    Might not totally, but if kinect actually takes up some processing power and they free it, it'd prove more helpful to devs in trying to achieve resolution/framerate parity in multiplat games. Imo, they should've kept kinect optional from the beginning and concentrated on raw power, then there wouldn't have been this 'issue', so to speak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
    Might not totally, but if kinect actually takes up some processing power and they free it, it'd prove more helpful to devs in trying to achieve resolution/framerate parity in multiplat games. Imo, they should've kept kinect optional from the beginning and concentrated on raw power, then there wouldn't have been this 'issue', so to speak.
    The whole thing is not developer friendly from.what I understand

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    Quote Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
    Might not totally, but if kinect actually takes up some processing power and they free it, it'd prove more helpful to devs in trying to achieve resolution/framerate parity in multiplat games. Imo, they should've kept kinect optional from the beginning and concentrated on raw power, then there wouldn't have been this 'issue', so to speak.
    The resolution/framerate thing is more the result of the much slower RAM and weaker GPU than it is the Kinect imo. But performance will improve with further optmizing though even if not total parity.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 05-21-2014 at 22:44.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos144 View Post
    The whole thing is not developer friendly from.what I understand

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    Wouldn't say that, some of the exclusives out for the console perform quite well (forza5 is 1080p60).It's chiefly been having issues on the technical front in multiplat games thus far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
    Would serve them better if they can free up some resources by abandoning kinect. I don't think people want voice commands at the expense of lower resolution/framerate multiplatform games.
    I thought they would of done maybe released a patch to make the system free the resources if a Kinect camera is not connected and then give it back when it is and chances are people would never have it plugged in.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
    Might not totally, but if kinect actually takes up some processing power and they free it, it'd prove more helpful to devs in trying to achieve resolution/framerate parity in multiplat games. Imo, they should've kept kinect optional from the beginning and concentrated on raw power, then there wouldn't have been this 'issue', so to speak.
    like i said, it will help but it's not going to bring parity on all titles. it might bring parity on some titles. and X1 would still have this "issue", it's more than just the Kinect taking up resources.

    Quote Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
    Wouldn't say that, some of the exclusives out for the console perform quite well (forza5 is 1080p60).It's chiefly been having issues on the technical front in multiplat games thus far.
    right, except you don't understand the context. theoretically any game can do 1080p at 60fps. at the time Forza 5 was developed, they couldn't do 1080p at 60fps with day/night cycles, dynamic weather and realtime lighting. you know, stuff that all next-gen games should have. that is not to say that the next forza can't have those features, but i'd have to explain you a lot more and judging your knowledge from the comments, i'd need a lot of time.

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