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  1. #1
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    Layoffs at RARE following kinect sports rivals flop.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ts-rivals-flop

    UK developer Rare has suffered a number of high profile redundancies following the decision to 'change development process' at the studio.


    Sources close to the Microsoft-owned studio indicated that just under 20 employees are set to depart, including veteran programmer Chris Sutherland, who has worked on Rare games for more than 20-years.


    During his distinguished career Sutherland acted as lead programmer on Battletoads, as well as all three Donkey Kong Country and Banjo-Kazooie games. He's also known as the 'voice' of the latter's bear and bird protagonists.


    CVG sources indicate that designer Gavin Price will also leave Rare, after a 15-year career which saw him work on Viva Pinata, Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts and a number of unannounced, cancelled projects.
    http://www.computerandvideogames.com...dology-change/


    What the hell is going on a microsoft? Lay offs and CEOs, directors getting sacked constantly. adam orth, mattrick, who's next?
    Last edited by Julz; 05-19-2014 at 16:52.

  2. #2
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    I feel sorry for Rare, ever since Viva Pinata I had a bad feeling about the direction they were going, now look, they really are a shell now. They've gone from one of the most distinguished developers ever to one of the worst developers ever, all because Microsoft bought them. Oh wait I'm sure I've heard this before... Lionhead!

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    Seems it's not just Sony studio's that have suffered lay-off's recently then! Looks like Microsoft's decision to unbundle the Kinect is not without it's victims!
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    Isn't the title a little misleading. Less that 20 people were laid off. I wouldn't call that "MASSIVE".

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Isn't the title a little misleading. Less that 20 people were laid off. I wouldn't call that "MASSIVE".
    Depends how many people work for them, if there is 25 people only then 20 is pretty massive lol!
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    Wow. A couple of long time veterans got sacked too.

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    No wonder why they're trying to figure out what they want to do next. Kinect sports sold well on the 360. I'm glad it flopped for the xbone. I hope other kinect xbone titles flop too. F kinect from the bottom of heart. It gave MS a reason to be exclusively lazy with the 360.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Isn't the title a little misleading. Less that 20 people were laid off. I wouldn't call that "MASSIVE".
    Lol tell that to people that made a big deal over naughty dog employees leaving

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMe2004 View Post
    Isn't the title a little misleading. Less that 20 people were laid off. I wouldn't call that "MASSIVE".
    3 people left naughty dog, one of them moved to another sony studio. apparently it was the end of the world. 20 is by comparison, I guess massive?
    Maths is biased! It keeps telling me the PS4 is 50% more powerful than XboxOne!
    Great song, should have more views :'(

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Wow. A couple of long time veterans got sacked too.
    They were not sacked.
    Redundancy is not the same as sacking someone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungMullah88 View Post
    Lol tell that to people that made a big deal over naughty dog employees leaving

    Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
    Lets get them together with the guys and gals who left Naughty Dog and some kickstarter money on a new original IP.
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  15. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    They were not sacked. Redundancy is not the same as sacking someone.
    Laid off or fired, it doesn't really matter. The end result is the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistercrow View Post
    Laid off or fired, it doesn't really matter. The end result is the same.
    No job yes.
    But being made redundant means you get a package, the size depends on how long you worked there, so for some of them it will be quite large since they have been there for more than 15 years.

    https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-redundancy-pay

    Saying that they were Sacked implies some wrong doing on the employees part.
    Last edited by keefy; 05-19-2014 at 21:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    No job yes. But being made redundant means you get a package, the size depends on how long you worked there, so for some of them it will be quite large since they have been there for more than 15 years. https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-redundancy-pay
    Which has nothing to do with my point at all. My point was that Rare has lost two long time veterans. The semantics are irrelevant to that. Laid off or fired or big severance packages theyre still gone from Rare now.
    Last edited by mistercrow; 05-19-2014 at 21:08.

  18. #15
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    the cost of selling your soul to the devil


    Quote Originally Posted by F34R View Post
    Ok... I was wrong. Happy?

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    This sucks, being layed off from anywhere sucks.
    There is still something fundamentally broken in the business of making games.

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  22. #17
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    For the majority of these bigger studios , isn't it basically just a series of contractors? That's what it seems like
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian View Post
    For the majority of these bigger studios , isn't it basically just a series of contractors? That's what it seems like
    Yeah, and they live hand to mouth, contract to contract, a publisher will only ever give you enough money to finish the project your on. After that?
    It doesn't seem to change no matter who owns you, it just ****ing sucks, the developers will never be allowed to feel fiscally comfortable in the ability to let ideas flow, because publishers/funder will not let them.

    The only people allowed to continue to make money is the publishers. That's why Activision could afford 500 million on Destiny, while kicking the likes of Bizarre Creations to the curb. **** publishers, I don't care who they, MS, Sony, Acitvision, EA or Ubisoft. They make sure as **** they get paid first, and the developers get paid just enough to live on their current project.
    Last edited by mynd; 05-20-2014 at 01:27.

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  25. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Yeah, and they live hand to mouth, contract to contract, a publisher will only ever give you enough money to finish the project your on. After that?
    It doesn't seem to change no matter who owns you, it just ****ing sucks, the developers will never be allowed to feel fiscally comfortable in the ability to let ideas flow, because publishers/funder will not let them.

    The only people allowed to continue to make money is the publishers. That's why Activision could afford 500 million on Destiny, while kicking the likes of Bizarre Creations to the curb. **** publishers, I don't care who they, MS, Sony, Acitvision, EA or Ubisoft. They make sure as **** they get paid first, and the developers get paid just enough to live on their current project.
    Yeah....I get what you are saying, but developers know what they are getting into when they sign up for these kind of gigs. Frankly, it isn't that much different from non-gaming development. I lived from contract to contract for years. When the job was done....time to find something else. Just the way it is.
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    Why is this a surprise? Microsoft pretty much pulled the rug out from under this studio, what good is your Kinect only studio when you basically nuke Kinect? They'll probably bulk up once they become a real studio again and not a vanity project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Yeah....I get what you are saying, but developers know what they are getting into when they sign up for these kind of gigs. Frankly, it isn't that much different from non-gaming development. I lived from contract to contract for years. When the job was done....time to find something else. Just the way it is.
    I'd wager you contracts were set out in terms of what they wanted you to actually do though. I doubt very much you were pitching an idea at them.
    You cant treat a creative industry like a they are work horses.
    What you end up is with everyone doing the same methodology and the same thing over and over again because they know it will get accepted.
    Its like asking da Vinci to sign up to a contract.

    "Yes, yes Mr da Vinci, I've seen your landscapes. People like them."
    "yes well I want to do this portrait of a woman".
    "No landscape then?"
    "No I want to do this portrait of this Lisa chick"
    "Ah, no thanks, market research has shown us people enjoy your landscapes"
    "so you want me to do another landscape?"
    "Yup".
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    "No, you have 3 months to paint a landscape after that you wont get any more money form us"
    "What do I do then"
    "We don't care"
    Last edited by mynd; 05-20-2014 at 03:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'd wager you contracts were set out in terms of what they wanted you to actually do though. I doubt very much you were pitching an idea at them.
    You cant treat a creative industry like a they are work horses.
    What you end up is with everyone doing the same methodology and the same thing over and over again because they know it will get accepted.
    Its like asking da Vinci to sign up to a contract.

    "Yes, yes Mr da Vinci, I've seen you landscapes. People like them."
    "yes well I want to do this portrait of a woman".
    "No landscape then?"
    "No I want to do this portrait of this Lisa chick"
    "Ah, no thanks, market research has shown us people enjoy your landscapes"
    "so you want me to do another landscape?"
    "Yup".
    "Can I at least get some funding to start this Lisa thing?"
    "No, you have 3 months to paint a landscape after that you wont get any more money form us"
    "What do I do then"
    "We don't care"
    yeah, get paid for three months and then your out. never once did I ask 'what do I do then'. already knew the answer. other contracts were open-ended and I never knew when they would tell me they didn't need me anymore. I knew that going in and so do these guys. nothing underhanded going on here. just how it works.

    edit: obviously I have never been a game dev so can't speak to that. just saying it sounds familiar
    Last edited by Christopher; 05-20-2014 at 04:05.
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  30. #23
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    It's not underhanded - but it's certainly limiting ​for creativity and variety.

    Either feed your family and do largely the same thing over and over; or you're out on the street and still can't make the game you want.

    Fairly extreme example sure, but it's to that line of thought that I'm speaking to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    yeah, get paid for three months and then your out. never once did I ask 'what do I do then'. already knew the answer. other contracts were open-ended and I never knew when they would tell me they didn't need me anymore. I knew that going in and so do these guys. nothing underhanded going on here. just how it works.

    edit: obviously I have never been a game dev so can't speak to that. just saying it sounds familiar
    But again, was it a creative industry you were signed up to?
    Did you have clear goals and objectives given to you? Did they simple say we want you to do this.
    Because there is a significant difference between that and some one saying to you:

    "We want you to make a product that will sell"

    There is a huge difference between being contracted to say, "help out" with a project, and actually having to pitch a complete product at someone.
    I can't think of any other industry where you a contracted to make ideas. It absolutely ****ing crazy.

    Can you imagine George Lucas or Peter Jackson being told, "right you've made a successful movie idea, now make us another. No, you don't get payed because the move was a success, just for making that movie, just enough to actually make it ok? Ok? Yes we know Star Wars made billions, but you get virtually nothing of that ok? We "may" fund Empire Strikes back because it sounds like more of the same, but you know, just enough to make the movie ok George? If it sucks, we wont fund another ever, and you will be out of a job ok? Good boy.

    Oh yes their is royalties, but you only see a small portion of that once we pay ourselves lots of money for "marketing" the movie. And there their is distribution on our own film stock. Sheesh thats more money for us...oh yeah here's your $100 royalties George.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admartian View Post
    It's not underhanded - but it's certainly limiting ​for creativity and variety.

    Either feed your family and do largely the same thing over and over; or you're out on the street and still can't make the game you want.

    Fairly extreme example sure, but it's to that line of thought that I'm speaking to.
    Yup, exactly.
    Is it any wonder we lie in a market where all we get is the same reskined ideas?
    Last edited by mynd; 05-20-2014 at 04:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    But again, was it a creative industry you were signed up to?
    Did you have clear goals and objectives given to you? Did they simple say we want you to do this.
    Because there is a significant difference between that and some one saying to you:

    "We want you to make a product that will sell"

    There is a huge difference between being contracted to say, "help out" with a project, and actually having to pitch a complete product at someone.
    I can't think of any other industry where you a contracted to make ideas. It absolutely ****ing crazy.

    Can you imagine George Lucas or Peter Jackson being told, "right you've made a successful movie idea, now make us another. No, you don't get payed because the move was a success, just for making that movie, just enough to actually make it ok? Ok? Yes we know Star Wars made billions, but you get virtually nothing of that ok? We "may" fund Empire Strikes back because it sounds like more of the same, but you know, just enough to make the movie ok George? If it sucks, we wont fund another ever, and you will be out of a job ok? Good boy.

    Oh yes their is royalties, but you only see a small portion of that once we pay ourselves lots of money for "marketing" the movie. And there their is distribution on our own film stock. Sheesh thats more money for us...oh yeah here's your $100 royalties George.



    Yup, exactly.
    Is it any wonder we lie in a market where all we get is the same reskined ideas?
    fair enough. like I said, I haven't worked the gaming industry so I can only talk about the parts that seem familiar.
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