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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    No surprise that you disagree. Name one game that's not possible on PS3 with some dumbing down like Oblivion on 360 which was impossible on PS2/Xbox.
    i don't know what that has to do with anything. consoles used to be weaker, now they're getting better specs, also getting more efficient compared to the PC.

    if you're implying that games on PS4 will be possible on PS3 in the coming years as well then you're sorely wrong.

    and really, anything can be ported, you just have to shrink everything down. like BF4 on PS3 is a shrunk down version. it can fit, with ****ty graphics, with barely 26fps, much lower in other spots...and no one cares about that.

    are you telling us that PC had no point last generation because pretty much all PC games could be ported over? nope.

    Yeah, GTA: SA is not much different than GTA 5 but guess what, I still like GTA 5 more.

  2. #27
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    Consoles when released used to be much closer to PC than they were this launch, the gap in 2 years time will be even more ridiculous than PS360s 2nd/3rd year compared to PC.

    Nope, just talking the titles currently available at this point.

    Thanks for proving my point. Right now pretty much any next gen game can be shrunk down (talking res+FPS here, not completely reworked textures, draw distance etc.). Games like Super Mario 64 were impossible on SNES, MGS2, GTA3 impossible on PS1, Oblivion, Gears of War impossible on PS2, Xbox etc. this gen has no games like that. Pretty unimpressive so far.

    I don't get your last two sentences but I dunno how you thought I was implying that. As for the GTA comment, cool story I guess? Both are awesome. Crash Bandicoot 2 is my favorite Crash game.

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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Consoles when released used to be much closer to PC than they were this launch, the gap in 2 years time will be even more ridiculous than PS360s 2nd/3rd year compared to PC.
    that's not true.

    yes, it is true that cross-gen is more possible than ever but that doesn't mean that the consoles aren't growing at the same rate they once were. in fact, they are growing at a faster rate than previously.

    seeing that PS1 was an outlier and weak. N64 had 4MB of RAM, 8MB after the expansion. even going with 4MB, Xbox has 16 times more RAM. 8 times more if you include the expansion. i'm trying to keep it fair because PS2 would've been weaker, i'm talking about the best console of the time.

    PS3/360 were 512MB, 8 times more RAM than Xbox. Now, X1/PS4 are 16 times more. so you're incorrect.

    not just that, these consoles are more like PC than "ever" before. previous consoles were powerpc, these are x86. they are also 64 bit rather than 32 bit. partly why consoles have been more efficient than PC lately. not to mention, their architecture has gotten much easier and closer to the PC as well.

    PS4's RAM is faster than what most PC gamers have, even the top 1%.

    you are judging them by anecdotal evidence, your personal opinion, not facts.

    Nope, just talking the titles currently available at this point.

    Thanks for proving my point. Right now pretty much any next gen game can be shrunk down (talking res+FPS here, not completely reworked textures, draw distance etc.). Games like Super Mario 64 were impossible on SNES, MGS2, GTA3 impossible on PS1, Oblivion, Gears of War impossible on PS2, Xbox etc. this gen has no games like that. Pretty unimpressive so far.

    I don't get your last two sentences but I dunno how you thought I was implying that. As for the GTA comment, cool story I guess? Both are awesome. Crash Bandicoot 2 is my favorite Crash game.
    well i don't get the point of saying something that is only true "now" and then judging the hardware based on that.

  4. #29
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    The RAM is the only area where they've really gone all out in the next gen consoles.

    I'm judging how it is now and comparing earlier consoles with what they were releasing around/shortly after launch. And so far this gen has been the least impressive so far. If it picks up which it most likely will, then great, but right now PS360 are perfectly fine. In fact PS3 is getting more releases anyway, I laughed the other day on the PS blog people were port begging for Ultra SF4 on PS4 because there's barely anything else to play. It's like that with the majority of PS3 release articles on there, even the free to play Soul Calibur which is a broken mess had plenty of port begging.

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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    The RAM is the only area where they've really gone all out in the next gen consoles.
    that's not true either. i just didn't want to go into it.

    you have the CPU, GPU and RAM. three components that are important. CPU not so much, but GPUs and RAM do. i think you're forgetting how weak the consoles were before that you couldn't even port half the PC games on it. let alone, "a" PC game.

    I'm judging how it is now and comparing earlier consoles with what they were releasing around/shortly after launch. And so far this gen has been the least impressive so far. If it picks up which it most likely will, then great, but right now PS360 are perfectly fine. In fact PS3 is getting more releases anyway, I laughed the other day on the PS blog people were port begging for Ultra SF4 on PS4 because there's barely anything else to play. It's like that with the majority of PS3 release articles on there, even the free to play Soul Calibur which is a broken mess had plenty of port begging.
    again i'm not sure what this has anything to do with how the hardware is. yes, we are getting a lot of cross-generation stuff. that's not good for next-gen people but it is what it is. what does that have to do with the consoles themselves? it doesn't say anything about their power.

    technically what did PS3 did with the PS2 ports? same ****. so what is your point? just that those ports weren't easy to put on the PS3 because it was a ***** to develop for. it's much easier to port to the PS4.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Consoles when released used to be much closer to PC than they were this launch, the gap in 2 years time will be even more ridiculous than PS360s 2nd/3rd year compared to PC.

    Nope, just talking the titles currently available at this point.

    Thanks for proving my point. Right now pretty much any next gen game can be shrunk down (talking res+FPS here, not completely reworked textures, draw distance etc.). Games like Super Mario 64 were impossible on SNES, MGS2, GTA3 impossible on PS1, Oblivion, Gears of War impossible on PS2, Xbox etc. this gen has no games like that. Pretty unimpressive so far.
    Granted the CPUs are a bit lacking this gen, but that can easily be fix/over come by off loading previous CPU intensive tasks to the GPU. If we focus on the PS4, the GPU is not in a too dissimilar position as to where the PS3s GPU was. PS3 was running on year old GPU tech by the time it launched while the PS4 is only one gen behind. The modified 7870 (slightly under clocked, boosted compute queuing, direct path to CPU...) in the PS4 should be able to do some impressive work.

    The new machines are much more programmable as well, allowing developers more creativity in how they actually utilize the hardware. Yes there is PC hardware out there with 2x if not more performance if you count by gflops or other measurements, but compare to how many of those GPUs are in systems compared to lower range cards which fill out much more of the PC hardware landscape, those big powerful cards are mostly going to be used to just pump out higher resolutions with AA settings to the max. Not usher in game design as you can't make a game that is only possible to run on a tiny % of PCs. It's why we still Physx as not much more than a graphical setting, rather than an integrated game design aspect where if you don't have the hardware to run it, you can't play it. Because if there was a game like that, the amount of people that could buy it and run it would be much more limited than one might think.

    Looking at the latest GPUs you would think the consoles will be utterly destroyed in a couple of years. But like i said, those cards make up a small minority of the PC landscape and also people don't upgrade every year to the latest cards. People can sit on the same hardware for a couple of years and game will run fine.


    I can think of one game that I believe would be computationally impossible on the previous gen, Resogun. That game is doing more real time physics calculations than I have seen in any game, console or PC. All those cubes are being generated and all interactions calculated at 60FPS. That scale of physics is whats going to set this gen apart effects wise.

    Also a lot of those games you list came out after about 12 to 18 months of the consoles being released. We are only around 7 months or so. Give it some time man :P

    Will give you that oblivion did come out earlier than 12 months, but then would argue that an open world RPG would have been possible on ps2/xbox era as we did kinda get some.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sufi View Post
    technically what did PS3 did with the PS2 ports? same ****. so what is your point? just that those ports weren't easy to put on the PS3 because it was a ***** to develop for. it's much easier to port to the PS4.
    Difference being PS2 ports came way later, PS4 is getting a ****load already to make up for a lackluster lineup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Also a lot of those games you list came out after about 12 to 18 months of the consoles being released. We are only around 7 months or so. Give it some time man :P
    Only the PS2 games, the others were pretty much within the same timeframe.

    Will give you that oblivion did come out earlier than 12 months, but then would argue that an open world RPG would have been possible on ps2/xbox era as we did kinda get some.
    Closest thing would be Morrowind which a lot would argue is superior in every way, but graphically Oblivion is way ahead. No way would it be possible on PS2 or Xbox unless it was running at 240p/20FPS with a draw distance similar to Silent Hill 1 lol
    Last edited by AaronSOLDIER; 06-06-2014 at 04:13.

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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Difference being PS2 ports came way later, PS4 is getting a ****load already to make up for a lackluster lineup.
    again this has nothing to do with the hardware itself. you mean, "right now" it isn't providing a complete next-gen experience. yes. but you go as far as saying that the PS4's power is less in proportion relative to its predecessors. that's incorrect.

    Closest thing would be Morrowind which a lot would argue is superior in every way, but graphically Oblivion is way ahead. No way would it be possible on PS2 or Xbox unless it was running at 240p/20FPS with a draw distance similar to Silent Hill 1 lol
    well your argument is that since we have Morrowind on the Xbox, Xbox 360 isn't that much superior because it's basically providing better graphics with Oblivion, but not a better game. while you admit yourself that Oblivion is in a different league.

    your argument is a contradiction.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronSOLDIER View Post
    Difference being PS2 ports came way later, PS4 is getting a ****load already to make up for a lackluster lineup.



    Only the PS2 games, the others were pretty much within the same timeframe.



    Closest thing would be Morrowind which a lot would argue is superior in every way, but graphically Oblivion is way ahead. No way would it be possible on PS2 or Xbox unless it was running at 240p/20FPS with a draw distance similar to Silent Hill 1 lol
    No what we saw with the PS2 to PS3 ports were that it started to happen when backwards compatibility was taken out. Also many were closer to upgrades rather than ports as so much had to be reworked to get the games running on the PS3. What we are seeing now is the continuation of that business model with the odd game getting a HD remake. What have we got?

    Tomb Raider
    The Last of Us

    Probably more I know.
    ----------

    Ok so we are going to move past the comparing to top of the range PC parts now? ok.


    Ok so the Morrowind/Oblivion thing, with ps2/xbox only able to run oblivion if you drop the res/FPS and draw distance, what do you mean by this in the same post...

    "Thanks for proving my point. Right now pretty much any next gen game can be shrunk down (talking res+FPS here, not completely reworked textures, draw distance etc.)."

    So if you mean ONLY res and FPS can be lowered, then any game that makes use of large amounts of GPU compute functions would count as games that run on ps4 and not ps3. Resogun and now Infamous 2nd Son should be added to the list.

    Actually the more I think about it, the list just gets larger for the amount of games not possible on last gen, based on your restriction of res and FPS.

  10. #35
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    i don't know what people are expecting from next-gen. we are moving towards bells and whistles like resolution and frame rate. we didn't have to worry about that before much.

    so you're going to need power to be able to do that. if anything, the boost PS3 had over PS2 didn't pan out like i thought it would...because PS3 had to worry about 5.1-7.1 sound, 30fps locked, high-res textures, draw distance, shaders, twice the resolution, AA and i'm sure, more.

    what i felt that we essentially got was just an upgraded PS2...and well, that's what these generations are. upgrades...they're not some magical high-tech stuff every time. you know, i believed PS3 would've been able to do Motorstorm and Killzone 2 target videos...why? because back then, i didn't think about the rest of $#@! PS3 had to do (that i just listed above). so i figured...HEY they can make MGS2 out of 4MB VRAM, PS3 has 256MB of VRAM. they better be able to hit KZ target render.

    but the reality is that we might not get that until PS5! i mean, maybe PS4...maybe close to it but probably not exactly the same.

    we need to realize that it's not about graphics, it's about scale, scope, design.

    the PS4 games are going to change in those aspects...that's what I wished PS3 to be. i wanted massive games. they never came.

    because technically, just about all PS3 games could've been massive if they could work with 480p, surround sound, low res textures, low details, low everything like the PS2. yeah, no doubt. but that's not how reality is.

    we'll probably be getting tons of 3D support now (including VR). so we'll be stuck with just GOOD graphics, not GREAT or AMAZING compared to last gen. that's just how it is. people find other perks more interesting than just better graphics.

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