View Poll Results: I bet Clinton

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  1. #101
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    there's no such thing as equality. men and women will never be equal. they may be equally equitable.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    there's no such thing as equality. men and women will never be equal. they may be equally equitable.
    Sure. Full equality is unachievable because humans are innately biased and pass judgements from compounded knowledge and experience with reality. Additionally humans are a sexual dimorphic species. But that doesn't mean we can't make attempts towards equality when the opportunity arises.

    But that actually has little to do with my point towards Morgan.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    Sure. Full equality is unachievable because humans are innately biased and pass judgements from compounded knowledge and experience with reality. Additionally humans are a sexual dimorphic species. But that doesn't mean we can't make attempts towards equality when the opportunity arises.

    But that actually has little to do with my point towards Morgan.
    on top of the differences, women haven't been out there long enough to have total equality yet. this is different from someone treating/paying women unequally even though the woman was doing as good or better than her male counterpart...that i don't agree with.

    but our initial reaction to women in places where they haven't been very long is that we don't trust them.

    and not just in that place long...there are so many other things outside the kitchen (err house) that builds character. i

    'm thinking that he "may be" associating being unskilled or being inexperienced not necessarily with their sex but more of his knowledge about women and generally how they measure up...but more importantly, i'm positive he's going by what he knowledge on her primarily and then for the lack of the better word, simplifying his explanation by saying it's because hilary's a woman.

    the same way i would say "women drivers are bad (generally worse than men drivers)". i'm positive we could prove that scentifically lol.

    basically what i'm trying to say is that sexism is complicated and sometimes what seems sexism has more to do with men/women judging the opposite sex in things that the opposite sex either doesn't have enough experience in (in a broader sense...in our example, women not being out there long enough) and things the two sexes just don't do well due to their physical/mental differences.

    imo it will never go away.

    P.S. it's the same as a woman judging a man with babysitting. i highly doubt anyone would leave their children with a man. on top of the fact that he could be a pedophile.
    Last edited by Omar; 07-10-2014 at 16:03.

  4. #104
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    Is Hilary Clinton going to run for president in 2016?

    @ Omar: You injected a lot of stereotypes into that piece about stereotypes. Was that intentional or just irony?


  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    We, the people, should crowd fund our next line of politicians and keep them monitored to some capacity for secret trade deals and third party influence. We should stick with moderates who are intelligent and sincere towards their fellow Americans but also have a distaste for the status quo within DC.

    You talk about individual equality yet judge Hilary simply for being a woman. How is that not hypocrisy?
    My not wanting Hillary in office isn't because she's a woman per se. It's because she's a woman with a power trip and a penchant or willingness to exert that power in all the inappropriate ways imaginable. She is a warmonger, feminist, anti-liberty minded individual who backs the surveillance police state, supports big-data and uses her influence to achieve policy changes that put everyday Americans further under the thumb of big government and big business. She cannot be trusted and her voting record is proof of such.

    I am holding her to the exact same standards I would any man or any other woman. She is being treated equally by me and I am not showing any bias whatsoever. What I've seen and heard from her leaves a lot to be desired. She does not measure up. Unfortunately for me, most Americans are too stupid to see through her for what she really is and will most likely vote her in out of some sort of sexist guilt they have been spoon-fed by the feminist establishment.

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  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    @ Omar: You injected a lot of stereotypes into that piece about stereotypes. Was that intentional or just irony?
    reality. there's nothing wrong with stereotypes.

  8. #107
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    @Morgan

    See, that's fair justification. Not the same as what you originally said, which is why I asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morganator View Post
    I do not think I could take a woman in the white house seriously. Especially Hillary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    reality. there's nothing wrong with stereotypes.
    That depends on how they're used. Stereotypes are innately prone to being fallible because of their assumptious nature. It is, at best, a statistical phenomenon worth recognizing and at worst purely dishonest.

  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    @Morgan

    See, that's fair justification. Not the same as what you originally said, which is why I asked.

    That depends on how they're used. Stereotypes are innately prone to being fallible because of their assumptious nature. It is, at best, a statistical phenomenon worth recognizing and at worst purely dishonest.
    i think of it as defensive mechanisms before you have actual information about a particular person.

    now if you primarily go by stereotype to judge individuals (which becomes prejudice) then yes, that's wrong.

    but without realizing it, we all have extreme prejudices and we discriminate on a normal basis. look deep within you, it's there.

    the difference is that people who do have knowledge what these things are and do know how to keep themselves in check (not let your prejudice/stereotype/discriminant mind come in front of facts) then there's nothing wrong with having it.

    P.S. we are born with these qualities (being prejudice, discriminant, stereotyping), i consider these our instincts in order to protect ourselves from the unknown.
    Last edited by Omar; 07-10-2014 at 19:42.

  10. #109
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    I wonder how female voters in 2016 will react to the video of Hillary playing coy about getting a child rapist off on a tech, with time served. Virtually admitting she knew he was guilty, this has got to weigh heavy on her female voters.

    .S. we are born with these qualities (being prejudice, discriminant, stereotyping), i consider these our instincts in order to protect ourselves from the unknown.
    Pattern recognition by any other name. This is how we've survived as a species for so very long.
    Last edited by Rust; 07-10-2014 at 21:27.

  11. #110
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    I don't think you can quantify sexist remarks as some innate biological defense mechanism.


  12. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    I don't think you can quantify sexist remarks as some innate biological defense mechanism.
    define sexism.

  13. #112
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    "Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex."

    You can refer to your previous comment for reference.



  14. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    I don't think you can quantify sexist remarks as some innate biological defense mechanism.
    I don't think anyone is saying that. It's potential emergent behavior as a result of innate social and biological factors.

  15. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    "Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex."

    You can refer to your previous comment for reference.

    except my basis relies on empirical evidence. i'm not saying every woman is a bad driver or that i assume that every woman is one because of her sex, it is because of the experience women have had out on the road. it's a form of precaution.

    similar to what you'd expect out of women as ground forces on the front line. you're going to have some sort of a stereotype/prejudice before you actually see the person perform. especially if the woman doesn't look physical capable.

    where it becomes a problem is when someone thinks that way knowing that the woman is capable.

  16. #115
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    Statistically, women are better drivers... at least in the U.S.A.

    My point is simply that ... the practice of stereotyping is inherently unproductive... and whether it's positive or negative... it's still a conclusion drawn from limited experience. I understand that it happens and many people are quick to judge, I just really try to keep an open mind when it comes to people. Some people force themselves into a stereotype, like those that cover themselves in head to toe in tattoos, for instance. When one does that, they shouldn't be surprised when they get strange looks from old ladies. Some of the nicest people I've met have been absolutely covered in tattoos, so even though stereotypes may exist due to some large group coincidentally sharing similar traits, it is not an all-encompassing assumption. Like Nerevar said, it's not always bad and I agree with that. I just think the practice itself can be dangerous.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying that. It's potential emergent behavior as a result of innate social and biological factors.
    Well... although I do agree that there are uncontrollable biological factors at play, we as a species are capable of separating primal instincts and social norms with conscious awareness and control. Maybe not everyone, but I think if we all put a little more effort into the practice of not judging others with little to no basis, the world would be better off.


    Or maybe I'm off my rocker.


    Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely guilty of this, so I'm not pointing fingers, but it's something I'm working on myself so I'm noticing it more since I'm making myself more consciously aware of it.


    Also, Nerevar ... and others ... have thrown little nuggets of wisdom in my direction lately that have made me think about things from a different perspective. It can be hard looking at things from another's eyes, but it's good practice.
    Last edited by Brandon; 07-11-2014 at 01:21.


  17. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Statistically, women are better drivers... at least in the U.S.A.
    why the US and where do you come up with this statistic? and do you mean better than men?

    My point is simply that ... the practice of stereotyping is inherently unproductive... and whether it's positive or negative... it's still a conclusion drawn from limited experience. I understand that it happens and many people are quick to judge, I just really try to keep an open mind when it comes to people. Some people force themselves into a stereotype, like those that cover themselves in head to toe in tattoos, for instance. When one does that, they shouldn't be surprised when they get strange looks from old ladies. Some of the nicest people I've met have been absolutely covered in tattoos, so even though stereotypes may exist due to some large group coincidentally sharing similar traits, it is not an all-encompassing assumption. Like Nerevar said, it's not always bad and I agree with that. I just think the practice itself can be dangerous.
    for someone who is uneducated or not knowledgeable but it can be a very good tool to interpret your environment.

    Well... although I do agree that there are uncontrollable biological factors at play, we as a species are capable of separating primal instincts and social norms with conscious awareness and control. Maybe not everyone, but I think if we all put a little more effort into the practice of not judging others with little to no basis, the world would be better off.
    lol little to no basis? i think you're misunderstanding me.

    if i see a woman coming up to me to ask a question, my first thought isn't that she's going to stick me up with a knife or a gun...if she does, it would be a surprise to me...especially if her demeanor (note that this is very useful to the police in assessing threat) wasn't abnormal.

    i know that there aren't many crazy murderous women out there, not many serial killers and especially rapist women out there...if at all. so naturally a woman won't look like a threat to me.

    at the same time, every woman should be careful about what sort of men approach them...without these prejudice/stereotypes/discrimination, they would likely be in higher danger. i don't think i have to go in too much detail here.

    my point being, sometimes these stereotypes can help you. like how a dog can be dangerous so until you feel otherwise as you approach the dog, see what it look like, acts like, how big/small it is etc. are all things that should change our perception...but the first thing you're going to assume is that the dog can be threat...maybe not if it's a tame dog but say if someone says that it's a wild dog, what is your first thought? that it's just like the rest? nope.

    you may also trigger these instincts depending on where you are...if you're in a poor area that looks not as lit as other places, looks more run down, looks to have people that may "look/seem" to have a certain demeanor, you're going to have different defense mechanisms up than if you were in a place that were the complete opposite.

    Or maybe I'm off my rocker.


    Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely guilty of this, so I'm not pointing fingers, but it's something I'm working on myself so I'm noticing it more since I'm making myself more consciously aware of it.


    Also, Nerevar ... and others ... have thrown little nuggets of wisdom in my direction lately that have made me think about things from a different perspective. It can be hard looking at things from another's eyes, but it's good practice.
    i think what we have to understand here is that neither i, nor (i assume) nerevar, say that prejudice or stereotype or discrimination is always good but in some context, it is a very good tool to stay on top of what's happening around you.

    heck, i do it against people that come from my origin. i'm more careful around e.g. Indian/Paki doctors unless they were born or at least raised a good amount of their life here. reason being that they are forced to become professional at times rather than them actually wanting to become one. so you're going to get some that are good and some that are quacks. and before anyone says, but there are quacks out there regardless...sure, except there are more quacks that are from originally from these countries...especially when their original study has been abroad. anecdotal but i firmly believe in it.
    Last edited by Omar; 07-11-2014 at 03:22.

  18. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    why the US and where do you come up with this statistic? and do you mean better than men?
    Yes. Statistically, men cause more accidents than women, but the difference is negligible (5% or so). I said the US because that's what the statistics are referring to. I don't know about other countries. I got that info from the intarwebz.



    Everything else aside, I do agree it's best to evaluate our surroundings for obvious reasons.


  19. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Yes. Statistically, men cause more accidents than women, but the difference is negligible (5% or so). I said the US because that's what the statistics are referring to. I don't know about other countries. I got that info from the intarwebz.



    Everything else aside, I do agree it's best to evaluate our surroundings for obvious reasons.
    and how many women drive as opposed to men? XD

    which is why i don't like statistics "sometimes".

  20. #119
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    Simplified:

    1) Assumptions and stereotypes are (usually) acceptable because it's natural for the human brain to summarize and compound data of its environment as a way to survive and judge-- this can also include people.

    2) There's a big difference in initial internal reactions to your environment and your choice of interaction. "Wow, that guy looks kinda thuggish. But I shouldn't assume and instead give him an honest chance like anyone else."

    3) Sometimes assumptions and stereotypes prove true. However it must be recognized that this doesn't invalidate their intrinsic fallibility as a generalization.

    4) Don't be an asshole about it. We all know where that line is. :Y

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  22. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    Simplified:

    1) Assumptions and stereotypes are (usually) acceptable because it's natural for the human brain to summarize and compound data of its environment as a way to survive and judge-- this can also include people.

    2) There's a big difference in initial internal reactions to your environment and your choice of interaction. "Wow, that guy looks kinda thuggish. But I shouldn't assume and instead give him an honest chance like anyone else."

    3) Sometimes assumptions and stereotypes prove true. However it must be recognized that this doesn't invalidate their intrinsic fallibility as a generalization.

    4) Don't be an asshole about it. We all know where that line is. :Y
    I agree with all of the above... especially the last line.



    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    and how many women drive as opposed to men? XD

    which is why i don't like statistics "sometimes".
    Lol. Well... it is what it is.


  23. #121
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    well this was a fun debate.

  24. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    @Morgan

    See, that's fair justification. Not the same as what you originally said, which is why I asked.

    That depends on how they're used. Stereotypes are innately prone to being fallible because of their assumptious nature. It is, at best, a statistical phenomenon worth recognizing and at worst purely dishonest.
    Yeah. I can see how I could have been misconstrued and that is my fault. IF Hillary was a strict constitutionalist and IF Hillary didn't violate it every chance she was presented with, she would be on my list of potentials that I would actually vote for. As it stands now though, she has no chance with me. I see her as just another traitor wanting more power.

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