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    New GTA4 mod update makes the game look amazing!

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    Yes, GTA 5 will arrive on PC later this year. Don't start salivating over the inevitable graphics mods just yet, though: there's still a reason to appreciate the game's slightly older brother. That reason is iCEnhancer 3.0, the new release of the excellent Grand Theft Auto 4 mod. This version updates the ENB, upgrades multiple post-processing effects and improves the game's performance.

    Here's the patch list for this new version:

    • Using latest ENB
    • New timecycle
    • New depth of field from scratch
    • Lens dirt texture
    • Moving clouds
    • Whole new color processing method
    • Rewritten the files for faster performance
    • Balanced lighting in every weather
    • Correct godrays following the sun
    • Multiple new post-effects
    • Better and faster bloom
    • Better motion blur
    • Easier way to configure your settings
    • Dynamic effects changeable in-game
    • Compatible 1.0.7.0/EFLC, thanks to Dax
    • And more...

    Those improvements do come with a few known issues—specifically with AMD cards, where users might notice performance or SSAO issues.
    The mod's website is currently dead, as people rush to get hold of the new version. For now, then, head to its Facebook page where you'll find a list of mirrors.

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    incredible, now it looks like GTA 5 on next-gen platforms but still $#@!ty gameplay.

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    I can't even imagine all the cool stuff they will do with GTA V when it comes to PC. If they can make gta iv look like this, the limits are...limitless.
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    it goes back to the point that PCs are underutilized because developers don't want to spend time and redo the code for PCs. this is a redone code.

    now imagine if it were specifically designed for the PC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    now imagine if it were specifically designed for the PC.
    That in its self is a rather difficult thing to narrow down. Can't really just say PC, really have to say what min spec would be.

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    yes, you're right. i guess in that case, i'd say if it were in the mid-range to high-range spectrum.

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    Oh PC gaming . I'll download this when I get home. It's a shame consoles never get these goodies.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    it goes back to the point that PCs are underutilized because developers don't want to spend time and redo the code for PCs. this is a redone code.

    now imagine if it were specifically designed for the PC.
    I wish developers really pushed their games on PC. There's nothing stopping them. PC hardware effectively has unlimited potential, and even if the best hardware today struggles the GPU of tomorrow won't. We need more games like Crysis and Metro: 2033, which contained enough graphical overhead to look top of the line even years after release.

    Imagine if Naughty Dog started making PC exclusives. ._.
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    I think once the PC exclusive space games start releasing we'll see hardware getting pushed. Though they'll be big on size and scope rather than graphic eye candy


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post




    I wish developers really pushed their games on PC. There's nothing stopping them. PC hardware effectively has unlimited potential, and even if the best hardware today struggles the GPU of tomorrow won't. We need more games like Crysis and Metro: 2033, which contained enough graphical overhead to look top of the line even years after release.

    Imagine if Naughty Dog started making PC exclusives. ._.
    because they don't make any money back on it. otherwise there's no reason why they couldn't scale the $#@! out of all games. hell they could redo the textures for the low computers. we see that all the time in cross-gen games.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    I think once the PC exclusive space games start releasing we'll see hardware getting pushed. Though they'll be big on size and scope rather than graphic eye candy


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    the latter, they are going to take advantage of the RAM and the graphics updates from the new consoles. i would not expect much more. though in rare cases, i could see some devs going for the eye candy.

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    The iCEnhancer mod is about as old as GTA IV on PC!

    this one was posted over 2 years ago.



    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    it goes back to the point that PCs are underutilized because developers don't want to spend time and redo the code for PCs. this is a redone code.

    now imagine if it were specifically designed for the PC.
    Not really, the ENB is a front-end renderer (IIRC) that loads before the game, and then boots the .exe (or something to that tune, ask someone who knows more about it for specifics )

    All this does is run its own shaders instead of the games shaders. It's purely GPU based and allows modders to render stuff DX9 shouldn't really do, at an extremely severe performance hit - SSAO, Real-time reflections, Sub-surface scattering etc.

    It doesn't do much for the CPU except maybe free up memory from sysRAM by moving more data to VRAM (or keeping it there, i don't know).

    GTA IV is still a DX9 game, with DX9 issues:
    Right now the PC has a Mhz and GPU advantage however is suffers from moving hardware targets and a high draw call overhead. The former makes it a pain to dev for (I've spent the last couple of weeks now working around hardware/driver bugs for our game) and the latter we have to soak up and just deal with due to the single thread Mhz advantage PCs still have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post




    I wish developers really pushed their games on PC. There's nothing stopping them. PC hardware effectively has unlimited potential, and even if the best hardware today struggles the GPU of tomorrow won't. We need more games like Crysis and Metro: 2033, which contained enough graphical overhead to look top of the line even years after release.

    Imagine if Naughty Dog started making PC exclusives. ._.
    Thing is to push that hardware you need to be able to sell enough to recover the costs of the games. If you make a game that fewer people can actually play, then there is less sales and then starts to make the whole process not possible. What we need are games like Crysis that actually sell on PC for PC hardware to drive it self forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    I think once the PC exclusive space games start releasing we'll see hardware getting pushed. Though they'll be big on size and scope rather than graphic eye candy


    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.
    If your talking about Star Citizen, yeah that is a good example of a game pushing PC hardware ahead of its years. But that statement is only true today, once the game is actually out ( 2+ years?), the hardware requirements won't actually be that crazy by that days standards. Though if by scope your meaning lots and LOTS of stuff on screen in a massive universe, the reason PC games haven't really gone there could actually have more to do with the limits that DirectX has had for a while now, but DX12 and Mantle start to fix.

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    New GTA4 mod update makes the game look amazing!

    Yeah I mean both Star Citizen and Elite dangerous. I think I'm a bit more excited about Elite Dangerous. It looks massive!!

    To be fair I'm just impressed by what the mod community can do. They can complete change the visual look of a game. Props to them.


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    Last edited by BBK..; 07-26-2014 at 11:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    yes, you're right. i guess in that case, i'd say if it were in the mid-range to high-range spectrum.
    :P even then that doesn't really narrow things down. What you class as mid range could be different to others. And then if you make a game that is mid range orientated, people with lower spec systems/laptops can't play so probably won't buy, and people with high end rigs will complain that hardware isn't being pushed.

    PCs strength of high customisability also makes it its weakness when you try and optimise games, as the more you focus down to more specific hardware, the more people you cut out of actually being able to play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    :P even then that doesn't really narrow things down. What you class as mid range could be different to others. And then if you make a game that is mid range orientated, people with lower spec systems/laptops can't play so probably won't buy, and people with high end rigs will complain that hardware isn't being pushed.

    PCs strength of high customisability also makes it its weakness when you try and optimise games, as the more you focus down to more specific hardware, the more people you cut out of actually being able to play.
    This is the problem with Warframe.

    Many of their players use integrated graphics on their i5, i3, or i7 CPU's.

    While they have nice horespower to run the thing, they don't have enough to make it look pretty. In this instance, i guess you could say PC holds back the PS4??? (maybe?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    Yeah I mean both Star Citizen and Elite dangerous. I think I'm a bit more excited about Elite Dangerous. It looks massive!!

    To be fair I'm just impressed by what the mod community can do. They can complete change the visual look of a game. Props to them.


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    that's one of the reasons Star Citizen dev (even though he is crazy) said that he wouldn't let the inferior platforms affect his game. this is exactly what he's talking about. if he involved console development in there, he'd have to cut a lot of corners to fit it on the PS4 and especially X1 first...and then build his way up. or he could just make it for the PCs as good as he can (and promises to) and then scale it down for consoles. which is what he'll do if he decides to make it multiplat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    :P even then that doesn't really narrow things down. What you class as mid range could be different to others. And then if you make a game that is mid range orientated, people with lower spec systems/laptops can't play so probably won't buy, and people with high end rigs will complain that hardware isn't being pushed.

    PCs strength of high customisability also makes it its weakness when you try and optimise games, as the more you focus down to more specific hardware, the more people you cut out of actually being able to play.
    that's true but i'd think even if they made it for mid-range, the end user would have the option to change the details to fit their PC setup (like you would with any game out there). but yeah, scaling would only benefit in a superficial way. e.g. if they made BF4 for PC only and designed it specifically for it (like some devs are at the moment), it would not have ran on PS4/X1 well and it would most definitely be massive.

    even then though, a game like star citizen would be possible on PS4 with maybe (guessing) 2x the power it has at the moment. whereas it may still be taking up a lot more resources on the PCs.

    but it might also take longer to develop on the PS4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    This is the problem with Warframe.

    Many of their players use integrated graphics on their i5, i3, or i7 CPU's.

    While they have nice horespower to run the thing, they don't have enough to make it look pretty. In this instance, i guess you could say PC holds back the PS4??? (maybe?)
    in the design stage, yes, if they targeted people that didn't have strong enough PCs then definitely it was held back...but i would only think the bigger issue would be if the design was changed...just the visuals i don't care much about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fijiandoce View Post
    This is the problem with Warframe.

    Many of their players use integrated graphics on their i5, i3, or i7 CPU's.

    While they have nice horespower to run the thing, they don't have enough to make it look pretty. In this instance, i guess you could say PC holds back the PS4??? (maybe?)
    Yeah watched the dev streams where they talk about things like that. Also that the majority of PCs play at 720p, could this just be more indicative of people that play free to play? They also talked about how the split between 32 and 64 bit systems stops some of the performance fixes from working. This is probably a common issue where a game needs to be playable on even intergrated GPUs but need to scale out to high end cards. How else would you do that other than allowing just greater visual polish? If its anything else, such as things that actually add to the gameplay aspects, then essentially people would be playing different games.

    I've done a side by side of Warframe with my PC cranking all settings to max next to the PS4 ( have dual monitors so very literally side by side :P) and the PS4 version looks at the very minimum the exact same and some areas better.

    Warframe seems to scale rather well though, which is probably a better goal for PC developers rather than only pushing the high end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    ...that's true but i'd think even if they made it for mid-range, the end user would have the option to change the details to fit their PC setup (like you would with any game out there). but yeah, scaling would only benefit in a superficial way. e.g. if they made BF4 for PC only and designed it specifically for it (like some devs are at the moment), it would not have ran on PS4/X1 well and it would most definitely be massive.

    even then though, a game like star citizen would be possible on PS4 with maybe (guessing) 2x the power it has at the moment. whereas it may still be taking up a lot more resources on the PCs.

    but it might also take longer to develop on the PS4....
    I suppose it depends by what you mean for the end user to change details to fit their setup. If you mean they are lowering settings so the game runs faster, then the game isn't being designed for mid systems as lower systems can still play it with lower settings. I should be clear when saying that what PC specs is the complete minimum for "Example Game" to run. Not run poorly or have room to drop things down, but won't start up and prompt the user "Sorry you do not have the hardware this game requires to run in its most basic form".

    BF4 for PC only, like you said, is that dual or quad core as the min spec? And min spec to the point like I mentioned before. Because if a game actually made that jump to quad only, you start to wipe out large amounts of systems that can run that game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    because they don't make any money back on it. otherwise there's no reason why they couldn't scale the $#@! out of all games. hell they could redo the textures for the low computers. we see that all the time in cross-gen games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Thing is to push that hardware you need to be able to sell enough to recover the costs of the games. If you make a game that fewer people can actually play, then there is less sales and then starts to make the whole process not possible. What we need are games like Crysis that actually sell on PC for PC hardware to drive it self forward.
    In many cases developers already downsample a lot of the assets they create for their games. For example the texture resolution you see in the final game often isn't what was originally made or gathered during production, it's downgraded in quality. Variables like AA methods, draw distance, NPC count, shader quality (this is the big one), etc can all be adjusted relatively easily to give higher overhead on currently powerful or future hardware.

    The thing is, PC games don't sell in the same way console games do, which have high burst sale figures before dropping off quickly. PC games have very long shelf life (for obvious reasons), and developers continue to recuperate their profits over several years. Communities, mods, and sales keep them relevant to the PC buying market.

    In the same sense, being able to scale a game inversely is also good, so even people with weaker hardware can buy and run your game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    In many cases developers already downsample a lot of the assets they create for their games. For example the texture resolution you see in the final game often isn't what was originally made or gathered during production, it's downgraded in quality. Variables like AA methods, draw distance, NPC count, shader quality (this is the big one), etc can all be adjusted relatively easily to give higher overhead on currently powerful or future hardware.

    The thing is, PC games don't sell in the same way console games do, which have high burst sale figures before dropping off quickly. PC games have very long shelf life (for obvious reasons), and developers continue to recuperate their profits over several years. Communities, mods, and sales keep them relevant to the PC buying market.

    In the same sense, being able to scale a game inversely is also good, so even people with weaker hardware can buy and run your game.
    Ok, yeah often assets are made at a higher quality then sampled down to a degree, but even then they can't create assets that much higher as it takes time and money to do that.

    Those variables, would say some of those depend on the game type, well more so with the NPC count. NPC could be involved with game play, say Assassins Creed for example. If you could scale the amount up and down, you could have very different game play experiences.


    PC game sales...hmmm. I'll give you that some games have extended sale periods, but out side of Valve, Blizzard and a few other companies, any up swing in PC game sales wouldn't really compare much to when the game first came out. Also this advantage might become less so as pretty much all console releases are going through their online stores as well, means that for the life time of that console that game will be purchasable and will run no matter what. Some one in 4 or 5 years could buy Driveclub and it will run just as well as it will when it first comes out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Those variables, would say some of those depend on the game type, well more so with the NPC count. NPC could be involved with game play, say Assassins Creed for example. If you could scale the amount up and down, you could have very different game play experiences.
    It was just an example. I don't think it would affect gameplay very much though, and the person playing would have control of it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    PC game sales...hmmm. I'll give you that some games have extended sale periods, but out side of Valve, Blizzard and a few other companies, any up swing in PC game sales wouldn't really compare much to when the game first came out.
    It's not meant to. My point was that they remain relevant for a longer time. The PC gaming field is different in many subtle ways to console game, and this is one of them. Typically games have longer and more consistent sales, even if it did drop from it's release. Console game sales pitter out pretty quickly because console gamers are ready to move on to the latest thing, but PC gaming's library is effectively a huge backlog for everyone.

    Not every game of course. Little indie games flutter about then die off, but that's expected in nearly any scenario. They weren't in a position to afford a higher technical longevity anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Also this advantage might become less so as pretty much all console releases are going through their online stores as well, means that for the life time of that console that game will be purchasable and will run no matter what. Some one in 4 or 5 years could buy Driveclub and it will run just as well as it will when it first comes out.
    I never argued anything about this being an advantage, just that it's different. The burst of a console game's sales or the slower marathon of PC game sales both work well if the developer can acclimate to that market. Historically PC games usually have a more drawn out development but they also last longer.
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    Don't forgot mods often prolong the life of games. Arma 2, Gary's mod and half life proving this.


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    that's why it's not for everyone. only developers that are smaller or that don't make too many titles. and want a unique experience you can't have anywhere else. that's why games like minecraft that could only be birthed on a PC and ARMA, Dayz mod, now star citizen and a few others i hear about, are all titles that aren't going to have a sequel anytime soon. they also aren't going to sell 15m copies but from a specific context, it may be perfect for a developer.

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    Arma 3 literally came out last year. I think for the games you mentioned they need freedom on a platform. Something consoles don't really give. It's funny that with DayZ which is a mod there actually mods of that mod

    All of which are more fun than the standalone.


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    that's exactly why i mentioned those games. these games are what keeps the PC going. these games are popping up more and more now that PC needs to differentiate itself.

    EDIT: which reminds me, these are the games that make me want to assemble another PC...it's not necessarily having the better-looking platforms with mods. while mods are great and i hope someday consoles do support them (highly unlikely for all games because they want to control this) but it wouldn't push me over to the PC side...what would are games like DayZ that i just can't have a taste of on consoles...yet anyway.
    Last edited by Omar; 07-26-2014 at 18:49.

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