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  1. #26
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    And strategy games, mmos, survival genre and mobas especially, seem to be the big ones that don't really work on consoles.


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    yup those. certain games i wish i had kb/m with...especially MMOs and FPS shooters. but not support like we have on consoles, that's usually useless...because i can't stand trying to do kb/m by my living room, because i live with other people, so dedicating a spot to a kb/m would be stupid. i'd rather play PC games on a desk and a chair.

    and i can't move my console to a desk because it gets used by my family so i'm a bit stuck lol.

  3. #28
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    Yeah that's a caveat of keyboard and mouse. It works at a desk more than a lap. Depends what type of gaming you like. Some like big TVs and couches. Personally I like bring right close to my screen


    BBK.. Tapa. Talked.

  4. #29
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    i do too, that's why i don't sit on the couch lol. i can't play "any" game sitting on my couch, never done it in the past. i sit on the ground about 3-4 feet away. about 3 if it's a smaller TV. but yeah, i always played PC games on my computer desk.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    It was just an example. I don't think it would affect gameplay very much though, and the person playing would have control of it anyway.



    It's not meant to. My point was that they remain relevant for a longer time. The PC gaming field is different in many subtle ways to console game, and this is one of them. Typically games have longer and more consistent sales, even if it did drop from it's release. Console game sales pitter out pretty quickly because console gamers are ready to move on to the latest thing, but PC gaming's library is effectively a huge backlog for everyone.

    Not every game of course. Little indie games flutter about then die off, but that's expected in nearly any scenario. They weren't in a position to afford a higher technical longevity anyway.



    I never argued anything about this being an advantage, just that it's different. The burst of a console game's sales or the slower marathon of PC game sales both work well if the developer can acclimate to that market. Historically PC games usually have a more drawn out development but they also last longer.
    Ok maybe you didn't say anything about it being an advantage, but it certainly looks to me that you might be saying that PC has similar sale numbers but just over a much larger time frame, correct?

    Would also suggest that a game having an extended sale period isn't so much defined as to what platform it is on, but if its actually a good game. As you can find games on consoles that sell well beyond a couple of months after launch like PC games can do.

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  7. #31
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  8. #32
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    Don't be mean, it's not their fault they aren't used to the finer things

  9. #33
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    problem is there's less of these things and they're expensive and inconvenient to keep up with.

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Ok maybe you didn't say anything about it being an advantage, but it certainly looks to me that you might be saying that PC has similar sale numbers but just over a much larger time frame, correct?
    I said what I said. Nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sajuuk Khar View Post
    Would also suggest that a game having an extended sale period isn't so much defined as to what platform it is on, but if its actually a good game. As you can find games on consoles that sell well beyond a couple of months after launch like PC games can do.
    Of course, but not like it does on PC.

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    problem is there's less of these things and they're expensive and inconvenient to keep up with.
    Still the finer things, nevertheless.

  12. #36
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    that's the battle PC has to fight though. that's why it doesn't have the exposure it could get...i don't want to say "should get" because i don't believe in unoptimized machines but if you ignore the problem of cost/convenience/support, they are superior platforms.

  13. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    that's the battle PC has to fight though. that's why it doesn't have the exposure it could get...i don't want to say "should get" because i don't believe in unoptimized machines but if you ignore the problem of cost/convenience/support, they are superior platforms.
    That's not a problem for everyone though. Certainly not a problem for most PC gamers, only a problem to those who aren't PC gamers. PC to me is more convenient than console gaming and PC has the support for games that console don't. It's all relative. Sure, I pay more, but I get what I pay for. Consoles don't give me 60fps MINIMUM on games, backwards/forwards comparability with my old games, games with mod support free online play and the list goes on.

  14. #38
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    But the PC is more expensive... Who gives a monkey's armpit, you get what you pay for, that is why there are better things for more money.
    Cars, TV, dish washer, lawn mowers, heck even vacuum cleaners, usually you pay more, you get better product and PC is better.

    Its less convenient, maybe for YOU, but for the millions of people that play DOTA 2 and counter strike every day it isn't.

    How did this turn into a PC vs console thread?
    Last edited by keefy; 07-28-2014 at 16:54. Reason: The truth

  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    That's not a problem for everyone though. Certainly not a problem for most PC gamers, only a problem to those who aren't PC gamers. PC to me is more convenient than console gaming and PC has the support for games that console don't. It's all relative. Sure, I pay more, but I get what I pay for. Consoles don't give me 60fps MINIMUM on games, backwards/forwards comparability with my old games, games with mod support free online play and the list goes on.
    1) Most PC gamers don't have higher end PCs so they may not have 60fps and/or 1080p in all games.

    2) Backward comptability is good but it's restricted to the sort of windows you have and some games don't run without certain DX...so it's more or less about the same for me and I have seen people with these issues.

    Forward compatibility is a myth. Yes, you can play games even after a few years down the road but you'll have lost the graphical/fps advantage...especially when nw generation of consoles arrive as PC development is tied to them.


    3) PCs overall aren’t convenient, that’s a fact. I understand in some ways PCs can be convenient but was just making a general comparison.

    Same about support…you may be talking about support of older games through users and I agree there. If a game on consoles doesn’t give option to people to have their own servers, our S is out of L so those people would then need to buy the sequel in order to continue playing online and whether they like the new game, can also be an issue.

    But what I mentioned, support, I meant development of new game titles. PC gets its own set of exclusives but they’re not as big of titles or as many of them that we get on consoles. So frequency and amount.

    4) you may get what you pay for…for what you want…which is the key word here. If someone doesn’t care about mods (which seems most console gamers don’t), then consoles would be better for them. Now, not saying console gamers would not like mods, I mean, who wouldn’t. my point is, they have two different platforms and they have chosen one over the other and they think the positives of the consoles outweigh the positives of the PC.
    But the PC is more expensive... Who gives a monkey's armpit, you get what you pay for, that is why there are better things for more money.
    except that doesn’t refute what I said. If that’s what you want then yes, that’s great. I also want mods, also want user servers, also want the thing PC gives me but like the majority of hardcore gamers have decided, they feel that consoles provide them with more of what they want and it tends to be cheaper for them, more convenient and more support.
    Cars, TV, dish washer, lawn mowers, heck even vacuum cleaners, usually you pay more, you get better product and PC is better. Its less convenient, maybe for YOU, but for the millions of people that play DOTA 2 and counter strike every day it isn't.

    How did this turn into a PC vs console thread?
    millions of users playing DOTA 2 or CS doesn’t prove that PC is more convenient for them. I could be playing PC games today but my view on convenience wouldn’t change. Convenience isn’t the reason I don’t play PCs btw, but I recognize that this is a problem and it is why people generally don’t choose PC as their gaming platform. i wasn't talking about myself.

    That’s not only me personally but what is evident with console sales and opinions. Why else would people buy closed systems that they can’t upgrade and have $#@!ty specs? It’s evident from the way consoles are going that convenience is the reason they sell. Live is a proof of that. PS4’s OS is another proof. They want to make it easy for to play games and that sells.

    It may have turned into a PC vs console thread because of my initial comment but BBK took the bait lol. But I think it’s relevant because GTA4 looks like $#@! on consoles while pretty nice on PC with mods.

  16. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    Forward compatibility is a myth. Yes, you can play games even after a few years down the road but you'll have lost the graphical/fps advantage...especially when nw generation of consoles arrive as PC development is tied to them.
    What does iterative advancements have to do with 'compatibility'? I think you mean something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    PC gets its own set of exclusives but they’re not as big of titles or as many of them that we get on consoles. So frequency and amount.
    PC offers far more exclusives, consistently, and at a wider variety too.

  17. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    What does iterative advancements have to do with 'compatibility'? I think you mean something else.
    Having a certain Windows (XP, Vista, 7, especially 8 ) can have issues with certain games. Also, can’t run a DX11 game with a DX9 card, one scenario.

    PC offers far more exclusives, consistently, and at a wider variety too.
    i know this and it has little to do with what i said. My context is different than yours.

    PC exclusives aren't as big (sales/budget) and aren't as frequent and have less variety in those titles.


    that doesn't mean that i'm saying that they're infrequent or have less variety in general, they just aren't getting as many sales in the exclusive titles (not speaking about title by title, overall), these titles also aren’t as high in budget as say GTA 5 (as long as it stayed an exclusive) and then I’m speaking about overall frequency in direct relation to these exclusives.

    PC may have a higher frequency in exclusives and variety when it comes to indies or smaller titles with lesser sales but the impact of that isn’t as big on the gaming industry as console titles do. and again, that doesn’t mean that PC exclusives don’t have an impact and aren’t high in sales, I’m talking about in comparison to consoles in an overall sense.

    heck even the multiplats that are on PC aren't high in sales. which is the reason i made this point, consoles get more support, they are more relevant overall.
    Last edited by Omar; 07-28-2014 at 18:22.

  18. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    1) Most PC gamers don't have higher end PCs so they may not have 60fps and/or 1080p in all games.
    Most of my circle of gaming friends plays games at that quite easily. 1080p/60fps isn't hard to hit any more.

    2) Backward comptability is good but it's restricted to the sort of windows you have and some games don't run without certain DX...so it's more or less about the same for me and I have seen people with these issues.

    Forward compatibility is a myth. Yes, you can play games even after a few years down the road but you'll have lost the graphical/fps advantage...especially when nw generation of consoles arrive as PC development is tied to them.
    I am yet to find a game I can't play at all. Sure, some games will require a little bit of work to get running but I can still play them. The PS4 can't even play a game from 2012.

    3) PCs overall aren’t convenient, that’s a fact. I understand in some ways PCs can be convenient but was just making a general comparison.
    Well, it isn't a fact at all really is it. It's just your opinion which you are entitled to. As I said, until the consoles offer what I want as a gamer, they are actually inconvenient.

    Same about support…you may be talking about support of older games through users and I agree there. If a game on consoles doesn’t give option to people to have their own servers, our S is out of L so those people would then need to buy the sequel in order to continue playing online and whether they like the new game, can also be an issue.

    But what I mentioned, support, I meant development of new game titles. PC gets its own set of exclusives but they’re not as big of titles or as many of them that we get on consoles. So frequency and amount.
    I'm 100% happy with the games I get on PC. I can live without a few consoles exclusives. Would I love ND games on PC, you bet. But it isn't like I don't have other games to take my time up.

    4) you may get what you pay for…for what you want…which is the key word here. If someone doesn’t care about mods (which seems most console gamers don’t), then consoles would be better for them. Now, not saying console gamers would not like mods, I mean, who wouldn’t. my point is, they have two different platforms and they have chosen one over the other and they think the positives of the consoles outweigh the positives of the PC.
    except that doesn’t refute what I said. If that’s what you want then yes, that’s great. I also want mods, also want user servers, also want the thing PC gives me but like the majority of hardcore gamers have decided, they feel that consoles provide them with more of what they want and it tends to be cheaper for them, more convenient and more support.
    I remember not too long ago when most console gamers didn't care about 1080p or 60FPS as there was no difference between 30 and 60fps. suddenly the PS4 can do this and it's a must have and they can all see the difference. I'm sure if consoles could do mods, console gamers would lap them up.

    I genuinely think it comes down to a cost thing. No doubt PC gaming is more expensive, I just spent 700 on a new screen because I want better visuals but therein is the difference. I can have better whatever, if i so chose. You get what you pay for in life and with PC you pay more because you get more. No two ways about it.

    Typing this post from my PC whilst I have it connected to my TV watching something on iPlayer whilst I'm also about to load up a quick game of BF4. Can't get any more convenient than that.

    edit: Now you're saying PC games don't impact console games? Why do you think there is a massive boom in survival games and now this DayZ clone coming out on consoles!?

  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBK.. View Post
    Most of my circle of gaming friends plays games at that quite easily. 1080p/60fps isn't hard to hit any more.
    they aren't most gamers.

    I am yet to find a game I can't play at all. Sure, some games will require a little bit of work to get running but I can still play them. The PS4 can't even play a game from 2012.
    that argument is wrong from the core. they aren't similar platforms. you can buy the platform that you need for that game. that's not much different than upgrading your PC to play a certain game except upgrading it more expensive than buying an older platform to play an older game. also, soon the PS4 will be able to stream those games.

    and I wasn't able to run any games from DX9 era because I have a Windows 8. I also can't play any DX11 games that don't have DX9 support.

    Well, it isn't a fact at all really is it. It's just your opinion which you are entitled to. As I said, until the consoles offer what I want as a gamer, they are actually inconvenient.
    i don't think you understand what i mean. it is inconvenient for people to install separate programs in order to properly play a game. it's inconvenient for them to keep their PCs updated, have no issues such as drivers, sound problems, video problems, hardware incompatibility, and various other errors some people can never figure out what they are. they don't need to install team speak or rogerwilco in order to speak with their friends. they don't need to go to steam.com (or have knowledge of it in the first place), download and install it in order to have steam games and services.

    i'm not talking about myself or you, i'm trying to help you (a PC gamer) understand that while you may think it's easy, it's not easy for everyone else. I also didn't get this a long time ago because i thought desktop PCs were the most convenient computers out there, i hated laptops and phones. and could not understand why people continued to buy those instead of a desktop. you can't make an argument that other than portability, there is anything else good about laptops or phones but what i didn't understand is that people would rather tap their screens than move their mice. simple as that. also they want to see bigger icons (which are now called apps, used to be called program shortcuts) and they want to be able to tap them to run the apps, no extra fuss. little stuff like that makes a huge difference. my son (3) has a hard time doing anything on my desktop but he can do just about everything on my samsung phone.

    so yes, they are inconvenient and that is a fact, not an opinion.

    I'm 100% happy with the games I get on PC. I can live without a few consoles exclusives. Would I love ND games on PC, you bet. But it isn't like I don't have other games to take my time up.
    funny i think the same except the opposite platforms.

    I remember not too long ago when most console gamers didn't care about 1080p or 60FPS as there was no difference between 30 and 60fps. suddenly the PS4 can do this and it's a must have and they can all see the difference. I'm sure if consoles could do mods, console gamers would lap them up.
    i didn't say otherwise. that's exactly what i'm saying. if they had it, they would love it but mods alone does not justify a purchase for them or anything else it has to offer. the points i'm trying to make are the missing things in PC that they would want.

    I genuinely think it comes down to a cost thing. No doubt PC gaming is more expensive, I just spent 700 on a new screen because I want better visuals but therein is the difference. I can have better whatever, if i so chose. You get what you pay for in life and with PC you pay more because you get more. No two ways about it.
    and i'm not saying you don't get more. what i'm saying is that it's not as simple as that you are getting everything more. you aren't. you aren't getting the support in game development as much, you aren't get the convenience (while you don't care about this, millions others do), you aren't getting the best bang for your buck.

    so while i understand that you don't care about the above, i wasn't saying that you should, i was merely stating this is the reason why people don't chose the PC, they aren't crazy that they don't understand the goods about PCs.

    Typing this post from my PC whilst I have it connected to my TV watching something on iPlayer whilst I'm also about to load up a quick game of BF4. Can't get any more convenient than that.
    that's not what i was talking about. but even to connect the damn thing isn't as simple as hooking it up. i'm not going to explain it much further than this as it's clear you guys don't understand why console users continue to choose consoles.

    @your edit: i didn't say that PC games don't impact consoles. i meant they don't impact the industry as much as consoles. developers are forced to push (except some) only when the new consoles come out. people that make games like star citizen or dayz are few.
    Last edited by Omar; 07-28-2014 at 18:41.

  20. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    Having a certain Windows (XP, Vista, 7, especially 8 ) can have issues with certain games. Also, can’t run a DX11 game with a DX9 card, one scenario.
    There are very few OS-specific games. Just Cause 2 and Halo 2 are all that come to mind, and both have relatively easy workarounds. Are there any DX11 or DX10 only games? I can't think of any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    i know this and it has little to do with what i said. My context is different than yours.
    Maybe it's not what you meant but it is what you said. =p

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    PC may have a higher frequency in exclusives and variety when it comes to indies or smaller titles with lesser sales but the impact of that isn’t as big on the gaming industry as console titles do. and again, that doesn’t mean that PC exclusives don’t have an impact and aren’t high in sales, I’m talking about in comparison to consoles in an overall sense.
    On the contrary indie games have shaken things up more than any AAA title in the last many years. You keep referring to these mainstream AAA games on consoles but they're really not doing a whole lot. There's little iteration or meaningful impact on the industry. It's simply a continuation of the status quo in which they themselves primarily uphold and inhabit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    There are very few OS-specific games. Just Cause 2 and Halo 2 are all that come to mind, and both have relatively easy workarounds. Are there any DX11 or DX10 only games? I can't think of any.
    no, i can't play any DX9 games on my new Windows 8 laptop. that's a problem for me. i also am researching and realizing that if i put XP on my laptop then it will be difficult to get some games running, sometimes some features won't work.

    i'm trying to state that BC isn't perfect on PCs as some people believe. also forward compatibility: I don't know the whole deal but i do know that if you have a DX9 card (which i do on my desktop) then you can't play certain games that require you to have a DX11 compatible card.

    Maybe it's not what you meant but it is what you said. =p
    well it was general enough that i understand why it was misunderstood. but it didn't specify in details

    On the contrary indie games have shaken things up more than any AAA title in the last many years. You keep referring to these mainstream AAA games on consoles but they're really not doing a whole lot. There's little iteration or meaningful impact on the industry. It's simply a continuation of the status quo in which they themselves primarily uphold and inhabit.
    Indies have definitely impacted a large amount but if you look at the sales, other than a few that are very successful (Minecraft comes to mind), they really aren't making the big money. they may be helping developers (smaller ones generally) make a quick buck and make games cheap and from that perspective, they have definitely shaken up the industry and given this industry more life.

    but something like GT7, Halo 5 is what people buy consoles for. and since consoles are generating more revenue, this would mean that these games matter more than PC exclusives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    no, i can't play any DX9 games on my new Windows 8 laptop.
    Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    Indies have definitely impacted a large amount but if you look at the sales, other than a few that are very successful (Minecraft comes to mind), they really aren't making the big money. they may be helping developers (smaller ones generally) make a quick buck and make games cheap and from that perspective, they have definitely shaken up the industry and given this industry more life.
    As long as the companies profit and good games are had then I don't see why excessive amounts of money matters. It's just profits to maintain the process of making profits to maintain the process... You get my point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    Why not?
    I have no idea, likely because Windows 8 was having issues, I haven't tried it since I updated it to 8.1 but each game i tried playing, would not turn on. i'm talking about games i owned back in 2005-2007. i gave up after i tried about 3 of them. the odd part was that they all gave same error, almost seemed it was to do with the OS rather than the game itself. i did try the compatibility and from what i recall, it did something but overall i wasn't able to play.

    As long as the companies profit and good games are had then I don't see why excessive amounts of money matters. It's just profits to maintain the process of making profits to maintain the process... You get my point.
    i get your point but having those profits also give them the opportunity to push the envelope...now not all games do and most just want to innovate without really pushing much...like minecraft, while pushes some stuff i'm sure (large maps) but really nothing that we haven't done before. and yet it innovates enough that millions of people want to play the game.

    but that game started out very small and it was an experiment. in a way that's also a plus because he could not have done that on consoles. at the same time, we have console games where developers take a bit more risk with investments. PC is more about trial and if it goes well, they support it more. it's difficult being a PC developer only, i'd think.

  24. #48
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    Windows 8 is trash everyone knows it. 8.1 improved things but still a bit pants.
    Not had any problems playing DX9 games on my 8.1 laptop.
    GL Quake often requies a small patch to work on modern GPUs btu that game is over 15 years old.
    Last edited by keefy; 07-28-2014 at 20:19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keefy View Post
    Windows 8 is trash everyone knows it. 8.1 improved things but still a bit pants. Also Ti hink there is a hint of bull$#@! in what you say vbecause I have not had 1 game that is DX9 nto work on my windows 8 laptop.
    i'm not saying my situation is scientific proof that there are issues all over the place, i'm stating that it was a problem and i know PCs tend to have problems with compatibility. e.g. not as peachy as people making it sound like.




    the funny part of all this is that i'm a walking contradiction. you guys might think that i'm a diehard console fan but i'm not. i'm stuck with circumstances. i have said multiple times that i would've enjoyed more if i had gone with a PC last generation.

    i still think i would have a lot more fun on PCs because they have all the games that i really, truly want but my biggest problem is the inefficiencies that the PCs have and i can't see myself wanting to keep up. I also can’t stand when a game doesn’t run that I really want to play because I didn’t buy a $300 card. Or I could play it but not at the optimal levels I wanted.

    I didn’t want a top end PC, I just wanted a mid-range and you run into issues when you want a mid-range and want to keep it for general and gaming use. You end up using it less and less for gaming so I decided to use consoles for gaming and desktop for general purpose. This way I don’t ever have to worry about troubleshooting my PC or anything.

    i bought my PS3 in 2007 for $570, and then again in 2010 for $200. i regret buying the PS3 at launch because that was too costly and I wouldn’t do it again, partially why I think I should’ve gone with a PC because it would’ve provided me more entertainment for $770.

    But I suspect I won’t need another PS4 until the generation ends. That’s the best price I can find for the graphics it will provide me (mid-to-high range), ease and overall convenience that it gives me. Note that I also have a son that can easily navigate and play with the controller...PC still doesn’t have that plug-n-play capability unless you guys have news for me.

    This is precisely why I’m interested in Steam machines…once they become more viable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    I have no idea, likely because Windows 8 was having issues, I haven't tried it since I updated it to 8.1 but each game i tried playing, would not turn on. i'm talking about games i owned back in 2005-2007. i gave up after i tried about 3 of them. the odd part was that they all gave same error, almost seemed it was to do with the OS rather than the game itself. i did try the compatibility and from what i recall, it did something but overall i wasn't able to play.
    Windows 8 supports DX9, definitely. That's half the point of a standardized API like that. I'm not sure why you're having issues.

    Then again, it is Windows 8... Microsoft's stunted, retarded child. :T

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    i get your point but having those profits also give them the opportunity to push the envelope...now not all games do and most just want to innovate without really pushing much...like minecraft, while pushes some stuff i'm sure (large maps) but really nothing that we haven't done before. and yet it innovates enough that millions of people want to play the game.
    Let me preface this by saying that you're totally correct and that I agree.

    But - and this is a big, juicy butt - they don't. These developers do not push the envelope like they should with the money they pull in. That flow of cash is what incentives them to remain as they are and continue appealing towards what sells. It does offer them that budget to really make something creative and epic but it's really rare to see that among mainstream gaming. It's a sort of stagnation.

    Compare that with the indie scene, which thrives most on PC, and you do see an abundance of creative gameplay and emergent themes being birthed and developing constantly as time goes on. That does however make it a tough market to truly thrive in, but it's also offering an ample selection for the gamers to choose from by keeping these developers on their toes.

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