Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst ... 3 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 119
  1. #51
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    31,300
    Rep Power
    194
    Points
    117,731 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by K2D View Post
    I honestly think it's quite tasteless of you to speculate about motive around an accident where fractions of a second determine what action that person could have taken. I hope I never wind up in a similar situation like that.
    we don't know if he had fraction of a second to make his decisions. i think it's more tasteless to say that he deserved the death for making a mistake, a dumb mistake but nonetheless i don't think he deserved it either.

    EDIT: oh i'm not saying the motive was murder...not at all. i don't thik anyone wants to go through that, especially in a professional setting where everyone is watching.

    what i do think is what you already mentioned, he probably just wanted to scare him, maybe nudge him a bit, scratch him so he doesn't do it again...because that would've been a lot more justified too, he was in the way, he should've been careful. and instead he miscalculated and ended up murdering him.

    we call that manslaughter.
    Last edited by Omar; 08-12-2014 at 16:59.

  2. #52
    Veteran
    faaeng's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    .....pss..behind you
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,273
    Rep Power
    75
    Points
    14,352 (0 Banked)
    I dont think anyone saying he deserved it. They are saying however its his own fault it happened...

    Sent from my One using Tapatalk
    PCs are very much like Air Conditioners.
    They both become utterly useless once you start to open up Windows....
    ----------------------------------------------


  3. #53
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    31,300
    Rep Power
    194
    Points
    117,731 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    his own fault? not entirely. yes, he risked himself. but more precaution could've been taken, that's apparent from the video.

  4. #54
    Friendship is Carrots
    Nerevar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Equestria
    Age
    22
    Posts
    15,809
    Rep Power
    135
    Points
    82,275 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by K2D View Post
    I honestly think it's quite tasteless of you to speculate about motive around an accident where fractions of a second determine what action that person could have taken.
    In what way? Sufi isn't up on a podium condemning Tony for murder, he's just discussing things casually.

    It's far more tasteless to tell someone to not consider the possibilities of an event. What's the point of having a brain if we don't use it?
    Add me on Steam!


    [Forum Rules]
    - [PSN] - [Programmers' Corner]

  5. #55
    Veteran
    faaeng's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    .....pss..behind you
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,273
    Rep Power
    75
    Points
    14,352 (0 Banked)
    Its a rule NOT to do what he did because its EXTREMELY dangerous and what happened to him can happen... Yes. His own fault.

    Sent from my One using Tapatalk
    PCs are very much like Air Conditioners.
    They both become utterly useless once you start to open up Windows....
    ----------------------------------------------


  6. #56
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Varsh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    W-s-M
    PSN ID
    UK-Varsh
    Age
    32
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    83
    Points
    20,651 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    it's also not out of the question that Stewart nudged at his car earlier...it's difficult to tell at first but keep watching it and looking at their turns, Stewart likely knew that Ward's car was going to get hit, because Stewart’s turn was much wider knowing he was behind Ward. Ward didn't curve into him, Stewart curved out (if that's a term).
    Stewart started the corner from the inside (while being alongside Ward), there is only one possible outcome and that is exiting the corner on the outside. Ward just happened to stay wide throughout the corner and didn't want to give up his position, he slowed down towards the end of the corner to avoid an accident, this was just a bit too late. That part was nothing but a very common racing incident. Ward most likely thought that it was a pop at him and was angry. It was just unfortunate that he clipped the barrier and Stewart's car. As Stewart was in front of the corner then he had every right to close the door on him. If you look at F1 they are far far far far FAR more ruthless!

    None of this in any way shape or form gives him the right to walk into the middle of a track against oncoming vehicles. If you want a pop at Stewart do it after the race not during a race on the track at the exit of a corner!

  7. Likes faaeng likes this post
  8. #57
    Ultimate Veteran
    mickice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Australia, In a Kangaroo's pouch.
    Age
    27
    Posts
    22,047
    Rep Power
    129
    Points
    23,307 (40,000 Banked)
    Items PlayStationPS3 Slim
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Looks to be on purpose. Yup.

    - Symmetrical thumb sticks for life -

  9. #58
    Stockholm Syndrome
    Sylar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    PSN ID
    Spikey456
    Age
    24
    Posts
    9,763
    Rep Power
    101
    Points
    158,252 (0 Banked)
    Items LuluFangLightningOlivia WildeLucy PinderMichelle MarshVita360 SlimPS3 Fat
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    update from yesterday, police aren't suspecting any criminal intent

    Kevin Ward Jr died of blunt force trauma when he was hit by a car driven by Nascar star Tony Stewart, according to an autopsy completed on Monday.Authorities questioned Stewart on Saturday night after the race and again on Sunday. Povero said Monday there were no plans “at this time” to talk to him again.

    Povero said there is nothing in the inquiry that supports criminal conduct or probable cause.
    “At this time there are no facts that exist that support any criminal behavior or conduct or any probable cause of a criminal act in this investigation,” Sheriff Phil Povero said at a news conference, adding that the investigation into 20-year-old Kevin Ward Jr’s death was still ongoing.

    Friends and racing fans said Ward, 20, was crafting a reputation as a wheelman, the kind of driver who could race vehicles on any track without fear.

    “He would go to tracks that a lot of other drivers wouldn’t go to,” Chuck Miller, the race director and president for the Empire Super Sprints circuit, said Monday. “If we had co-sanctioned races with other organizations where we really weren’t giving points or anything, but it was a deal where you wanted to see how you stacked up against the other competition, the Wards were willing to go and do that and see where they were at.”

    Ward began racing go-karts in 1998 at age four. In 2010, he moved on to sprint cars and was Empire Super Sprint racing rookie of the year in 2012. The 20-year-old raced mostly on dirt tracks a few hours from his home in Port Leyden, a village of 700 in northern New York.

    Ward was killed Saturday night about 140 miles away at a clay track in Canandaigua. Nascar champion Tony Stewart was the big name in the field, racing with the young guys while he was in the area for a Sprint Cup race at Watkins Glen the next day.

    Ward and Stewart tangled, and Ward hit the wall. Ward walked on the track apparently to confront Stewart, and was struck when Stewart’s vehicle seemed to fishtail.
    On Monday, several cars were parked in front of the Ward home in Port Leyden. A police officer stood across the street, politely asking reporters not to park on the road’s shoulder.

    Helen McHale has lived across the street for 30 years and remembers hearing the noise when Ward raced go-carts. Kevin Ward Sr. runs a successful painting business, and locals thought his son might make it big in the racing world.
    “His dad goes to every race,” she said. “He’s a good kid, polite, big smile, and they’re a good family.”
    Stewart and Ward shared a love of racing sprint cars: high-powered, winged cars built for running on short oval or circular dirt and paved tracks. Drivers have to hit the gas to turn, not necessarily use the wheel.
    After the crash, Ward was standing to the right of Stewart’s familiar No14 car on the dimly lit track. According to video and witness accounts, Ward was struck by the right rear tire and hurtled through the air. There was no video in Stewart’s car.

    Authorities questioned the 43-year-old Stewart once on Saturday night and went to Watkins Glen to talk to him again Sunday. Ontario County Sheriff Philip Povero said that investigators don’t have any evidence at this point to support criminal intent. Povero said Monday there were no plans “at this time” to talk to Stewart again.
    “At this time, there are no facts that exist that support any criminal behavior or conduct, or that any probable cause of a criminal act, in this investigation,” he said.

    Povero said the autopsy was completed Monday and found Ward died of blunt force trauma.
    Stewart said Sunday “there aren’t words” to describe his sadness over Ward’s death.
    Stewart hasn’t announced whether he’ll drive in this weekend’s Nascar race at Michigan International Speedway, but his short track “hobby” is on hold. He won’t appear Saturday in a race in Warsaw, Indiana.
    “It is still an emotional time for all involved, Tony included. He is grieving, and grief doesn’t have a timetable,” spokesman Mike Arning said Monday.

    Canandaigua Speedway promoter Jeremie Corcoran said the track has canceled Wednesday’s event to give “my family, staff, fans, and racing teams time to grieve and process all that has occurred”.
    Driver Matt Tanner, a friend of Ward’s, was a few cars back from the collision. Ward had been a good friend for years, a member of a small, tight group of drivers who traveled to various races around New York state, parts of Canada and Pennsylvania.
    “I saw his car sitting there and when the ambulances pulled up I realized what was happening,” Tanner said.
    He hasn’t watched the video and doesn’t plan to.
    “Your emotions are running so high. Stewart’s known for being competitive, and Kevin was just as competitive,” said Tanner.

    So competitive that he’d take his life into his own hands by stepping into traffic in a black firesuit on a dark track?
    No one will know for sure why Ward made the treacherous decision to stalk Stewart.
    But perhaps he was inspired by Stewart himself. Known for his volcanic temper, Stewart is among the drivers who made highlight reels by tossing helmets at windshields or throwing punches at competitors. The action captivates fans and is part of Nascar’s allure – and inspires the next generation to mimic the bumping and brawling of their heroes.
    What better way for a young driver to make a name for himself than being the one that stood up to Smoke?
    Driver Cory Sparks, a fellow driver in Saturday’s race, said he and Ward became friends five years ago. He said Ward was aggressive and competitive and that the two men had “had our feuds” but that he was proud to call him a friend.

    “I don’t want Kevin Ward to be remembered as a victim in a Tony Stewart accident,” he said. “He definitely had a future in this sport. He was a very aggressive driver. He was one hell of wheel man.”
    Doug Elkins is a former race announcer who now writes about the sport. He had known Ward and his father for several years. Elkins said he hoped rules prohibiting drivers from getting out of their cars during races will be better enforced around the country.
    He hadn’t heard of any bad blood between Stewart and Ward.
    “Anyone would want to beat him,” Elkins said, “he’s Tony Stewart.”
    source: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...-investigation
    Last edited by Sylar; 08-12-2014 at 17:29.




  10. #59
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    31,300
    Rep Power
    194
    Points
    117,731 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    Stewart started the corner from the inside (while being alongside Ward), there is only one possible outcome and that is exiting the corner on the outside. Ward just happened to stay wide throughout the corner and didn't want to give up his position, he slowed down towards the end of the corner to avoid an accident, this was just a bit too late. That part was nothing but a very common racing incident. Ward most likely thought that it was a pop at him and was angry. It was just unfortunate that he clipped the barrier and Stewart's car. As Stewart was in front of the corner then he had every right to close the door on him. If you look at F1 they are far far far far FAR more ruthless!

    None of this in any way shape or form gives him the right to walk into the middle of a track against oncoming vehicles. If you want a pop at Stewart do it after the race not during a race on the track at the exit of a corner!
    oh come on, that's not normal at all. you're talking about Grant Turismo 101 lol, that's what newbs do online and is bull$#@!. it's easy to make an inner corner and go outer at the end. that should imo not be allowed if it means you're going to force the other guy to change his cornering, i highly doubt that's legal.

    especially since Stewart actually hit him...not the other way around, Ward tried to stay away like you said, which i agree but there was no way Ward could've prevented that because of how quick that happened, he could've done the same thing and just gotten in front of Stewart and let him hit Ward's car...which would be equally wrong.

    Ward tried to make a wider turn because Stewart tried to overtake him during the turn and if that's allowed, that's pretty $#@!ed up and dangerous. that's what people do in stupid online racing games and are banned from games that allow people to ban others.

    if he made an inner turn, he should stay his bounds, and not make it to where Ward would need to basically come to a complete stop in order to avoid the accident.

    It was stewart's fault, not ward, but i'm not justifying what ward did afterwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by faaeng View Post
    Its a rule NOT to do what he did because what happened to him CAN happen... Yes. His own fault.

    Sent from my One using Tapatalk
    the way you're saying it, is that there's no possibility of foul-play, the rules are black and white...ok, let's look at it this way. you have a child, your child goes out running into the street, he/she gets run over by a car, gets killed. are you going to say that it was your child's fault?

    no because you don't know the full details. you don't even know if the guy/gal in the car hit the kid because of suddeness of the situation and/or somewhat of an entitlement of the road...point being, I’m not saying he definitely had time to react, I’m stating that we don’t really know for sure but some things do look suspicious to me.

    e.g. we do have proof that he didn’t just jump in front of the car. He was there for about 10+ seconds. We also have proof that Stewart’s car was going outwards when there was no turn there, you can tell by looking at other cars in the same spot. The car in front of Stewart’s had taken a lot more precaution even though he had less time to slow down than Stewart did. Stewart wasn’t right behind the car in front of him, he was about 2 seconds away, that’s a lot of distance. Again I see no reason why he needed to go further out in the course when there wasn’t a sharp turn there. Knowing well that Ward’s car was crashed at that spot, there was no reason to go the outer course, it was a known hazard.

    What we don’t know is how long Stewart before he could react but from the information and angle of the race and the distance of his car from the guy in front, he should’ve had plenty of time to tell. And you could tell that Stewart WAS slower than the previous lap so he knew something was wrong (which he should as he’s the person who did it).

    you know, there was a kid who ran over a man and when he was asked why he ran over the man, the kid said, "that guy wasn't supposed to be on the road." He was convicted, not because he was speeding but because he had a sense of entitlement of the road due to the black & white interpretation of the law.


    that alone doesn't give anyone full protection. you can fix a mistake, that’s why insurance companies don’t care if an accident was your fault or not because there are many drivers out there that use precaution in any case and prevent a lot of accidents by watching others.

    Ward is at fault but we should not automatically assume that the entire fault is on the person who made the first mistake as it's possible some more precautions could've been taken.

    My only basis here is that Stewart didn’t take as much precaution as the guy in front of him…that looks suspicious to me. K2D himself admits that he probably meant to scare/nudge him. Which does seem apparent.

  11. #60
    Elite Member
    K2D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    PSN ID
    Cathode
    Age
    27
    Posts
    1,921
    Rep Power
    70
    Points
    12,472 (0 Banked)
    Items LuluYunaDaft Punk
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    In what way? Sufi isn't up on a podium condemning Tony for murder, he's just discussing things casually.

    It's far more tasteless to tell someone to not consider the possibilities of an event. What's the point of having a brain if we don't use it?
    I'm not even singling Sufi out! Speculating about them having a beef against each other; whether there was tension between them; everything taken into account; Sitting here as a third party hoping they'll he'll get punished... Edit: We're not sitting on all the evidence yet we're passing judgement?
    Last edited by K2D; 08-12-2014 at 17:31.

    Wishlist: Jade Cocoon Reboot, Oni Reboot, the next JRPG, Wasteland 2 [coming soon!]
    SotC 2, Fallout 4, next Obsidian Fallout, Project Eternity, Uncharted 4, Divinity [NEW!]
    ...
    [South Park: Stick of Truth is pure gaming bliss!]

  12. #61
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Varsh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    W-s-M
    PSN ID
    UK-Varsh
    Age
    32
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    83
    Points
    20,651 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    That pretty much sums up exactly what I was thinking and saying. The main part "So competitive that he’d take his life into his own hands by stepping into traffic in a black firesuit on a dark track?" pretty much sums it all up.

  13. #62
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    31,300
    Rep Power
    194
    Points
    117,731 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by K2D View Post
    I'm not even singling Sufi out! Speculating about them having a beef against each other; whether there was tension between them; everything taken into account; Sitting here as a third party hoping they'll he'll get punished...
    i've given enough reasoning to show why he should be somewhat accountable for what happened. at no point did i say that it wasn't ward's fault. it is but i'm actually trying to make it where it's not black and white. there are enough data there to see something was definitely out of place.

    you admitted yourself that he was likely trying to scare him or nudge him. that's all i'm saying as well. it does seem that way. and it turned ugly. that's called manslaughter. so if he didn't take more precaution on purpose then he should be held accountable.

  14. #63
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    31,300
    Rep Power
    194
    Points
    117,731 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    That pretty much sums up exactly what I was thinking and saying. The main part "So competitive that he’d take his life into his own hands by stepping into traffic in a black firesuit on a dark track?" pretty much sums it all up.
    if you try to put it simply then yes, that makes the situation simple but it's not simple.

  15. #64
    Forum Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    31
    Posts
    8,479
    Rep Power
    102
    Points
    2,417 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    Not really. Nothing I've said even implies that.

    I take issue with the rest of your post. By your logic it's a rape victim's fault for being alone at night. After all they put themselves into that situation, right?
    .
    Depending on the circumstances. People tend to put themselves in quite a few situations whether knowingly or unknowingly. Ignorance is not a valid excuse and once you've reached a certain age, being a victim ceases to be one too with the exception of a very few circumstances. Thinking before acting should be a litmus test as a rite-of-passage to one being a responsible adult. Actions have consequence.

  16. #65
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    31,300
    Rep Power
    194
    Points
    117,731 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    Depending on the circumstances. People tend to put themselves in quite a few situations whether knowingly or unknowingly. Ignorance is not a valid excuse and once you've reached a certain age, being a victim ceases to be one too with the exception of a very few circumstances. Thinking before acting should be a litmus test as a rite-of-passage to one being a responsible adult. Actions have consequence.
    that’s an extreme way to think. You’re leaving out no grey area in there. So if a person walks in front of me in the middle of a road, I’m under no obligation to try my best to avoid the accident…they have made their decision and they are fully responsible for their own death because humans are without error and we should not focus on prevention.

  17. #66
    Elite Member
    K2D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    PSN ID
    Cathode
    Age
    27
    Posts
    1,921
    Rep Power
    70
    Points
    12,472 (0 Banked)
    Items LuluYunaDaft Punk
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    K2D himself admits that he probably meant to scare/nudge him. Which does seem apparent.
    At least quote me in context. Have you ever done something behind a wheel in a heated moment that you've regretted afterwards. Well. Add to that that they were on a closed course, meaning you'll probably react differently to suddenly having a person right in front of your car. And even though we see him for 10+ seconds as you say, there's no way a race car driver has the same awareness as a bystander or even us who can watch the video replay several times.

    Never in a million years would I agree to someone deserving manslaughter from watching a video like this.

    Wishlist: Jade Cocoon Reboot, Oni Reboot, the next JRPG, Wasteland 2 [coming soon!]
    SotC 2, Fallout 4, next Obsidian Fallout, Project Eternity, Uncharted 4, Divinity [NEW!]
    ...
    [South Park: Stick of Truth is pure gaming bliss!]

  18. #67
    Friendship is Carrots
    Nerevar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Equestria
    Age
    22
    Posts
    15,809
    Rep Power
    135
    Points
    82,275 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    None of this in any way shape or form gives him the right to walk into the middle of a track against oncoming vehicles. If you want a pop at Stewart do it after the race not during a race on the track at the exit of a corner!
    Why are people still talking about this? Everyone agrees Kevin was an idiot for standing in the middle of the track. The important part is Tony and what he may or may not have done.

    Quote Originally Posted by K2D View Post
    We're not sitting on all the evidence yet we're passing judgement?
    Uh, yes. You act like that's a wrong thing to do. Humans evaluate and judge all the time, and judgments are never truly final. I don't understand your issue here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    Depending on the circumstances.
    That's some serious bull$#@! you just put down. If you truly believe it's a victim's fault for what someone else does to them then you've abandoned all sensibility and reason.
    Add me on Steam!


    [Forum Rules]
    - [PSN] - [Programmers' Corner]

  19. #68
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Varsh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    W-s-M
    PSN ID
    UK-Varsh
    Age
    32
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    83
    Points
    20,651 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    oh come on, that's not normal at all. you're talking about Grant Turismo 101 lol, that's what newbs do online and is bull$#@!. it's easy to make an inner corner and go outer at the end. that should imo not be allowed if it means you're going to force the other guy to change his cornering, i highly doubt that's legal.
    Stewart was in front of Ward on the INSIDE before the corner, if you are in front of the car you are overtaking and have the inside line then you will not be hitting the apex and you will only go in one direction, the outside of the exit to the corner, it's common sense if you do motor racing. The only reason Ward was able to stay with him around the corner was because he had the racing line thus had a faster approach and could brake later. He did not however decide to undercut (like most drivers do) but instead stay away from the apex and try and keep the outside, Stewart had every right to close that door. It happens dozens of times every single race in almost every single motorsport event around the globe and you're saying it's Gran Turismo 101? I think you need to learn what motorsport is and what lines are.

    especially since Stewart actually hit him...not the other way around, Ward tried to stay away like you said, which i agree but there was no way Ward could've prevented that because of how quick that happened, he could've done the same thing and just gotten in front of Stewart and let him hit Ward's car...which would be equally wrong.
    Ward was always behind Stewart around the corner, when he realised he could not get in front of him he slowed down but it was too late. Like I said Steward did not hit Ward and Ward did not hit Stewart, Stewart had only a single line through the corner and Ward knew that, Ward could take a potential 3 lines through the corner, he just happened to lift a bit too late that was all. A simple racing incident, nothing more and nothing less.

    Ward tried to make a wider turn because Stewart tried to overtake him during the turn and if that's allowed, that's pretty $#@!ed up and dangerous. that's what people do in stupid online racing games and are banned from games that allow people to ban others.
    Stewart was already in front of Ward on the inside, Ward could have slowed down and taken a late tighter line to undercut Stewart, he could have slowed and slotted in behind Stewart by hitting the apex, or he could have done what he did but slightly slower through the corner and end up behind Stewart, either way Stewart already had won the place before the corner. Also by this entire sentence you clearly know zilch about motorracing and it's showing. Every single race has drivers overtaking other drivers on the inside, outside, undercutting and more DURING corners.

    if he made an inner turn, he should stay his bounds, and not make it to where Ward would need to basically come to a complete stop in order to avoid the accident.
    The rules of every form of motorsport is that if the driver is at least HALF A CAR'S LENGTH IN FRONT of the other driver then they are allowed to take any line they like as long as they don't make any sudden directional turn to cause an accident. In this scenario Stewart held the same line throughout the corner and so did Ward.

    It was stewart's fault, not ward, but i'm not justifying what ward did afterwards.
    It's no one's fault, it was a racing incident. Don't make me draw several diagrams so you know what happened and how to take corners and overtake in the real world on the track (I have done competitive track days myself).

  20. #69
    Elite Member
    K2D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    PSN ID
    Cathode
    Age
    27
    Posts
    1,921
    Rep Power
    70
    Points
    12,472 (0 Banked)
    Items LuluYunaDaft Punk
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    Uh, yes. You act like that's a wrong thing to do. Humans evaluate and judge all the time, and judgments are never truly final. I don't understand your issue here.
    I guess it's a cultural thing. Withholding judgment. Acknowledging that everyone innocent until proven guilty without a doubt.

    Wishlist: Jade Cocoon Reboot, Oni Reboot, the next JRPG, Wasteland 2 [coming soon!]
    SotC 2, Fallout 4, next Obsidian Fallout, Project Eternity, Uncharted 4, Divinity [NEW!]
    ...
    [South Park: Stick of Truth is pure gaming bliss!]

  21. #70
    Forum Overseer
    Omar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Addison, TX.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    31,300
    Rep Power
    194
    Points
    117,731 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    @Varsh, we'll talk more in detail about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by K2D View Post
    At least quote me in context. Have you ever done something behind a wheel in a heated moment that you've regretted afterwards. Well. Add to that that they were on a closed course, meaning you'll probably react differently to suddenly having a person right in front of your car. And even though we see him for 10+ seconds as you say, there's no way a race car driver has the same awareness as a bystander or even us who can watch the video replay several times.

    Never in a million years would I agree to someone deserving manslaughter from watching a video like this.
    i think you misunderstand what manslaughter means. it means what you have just described. it wasn't the intent but it happened. but something has to happen from the attacker's side that did it (i believe). so if a friend pushes another friend down a hill and the friend dies while rolling down the hill...that's manslaughter. he pushed him on purpose and should've known the potential risks.

    Quote Originally Posted by K2D View Post
    I guess it's a cultural thing. Withholding judgment. Acknowledging that everyone innocent until proven guilty without a doubt.
    except i'm not pushing judgement, i'm merely stating what i saw...just as you did.

    EDIT: judgement would be if i said, "oh Stewat probably meant to kill him." i'm only stating what seems to be the most logical thing...and yes, if they had a feud then nudging him a little to teach him a lesson falls perfectly into the story.

    unless you don't like investigators either because they do the same thing. hell, they'll go as far as demeanor lol. i'm not investigator but i shouldn't be held to a different standard.
    Last edited by Omar; 08-12-2014 at 18:02.

  22. #71
    Stockholm Syndrome
    Sylar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    PSN ID
    Spikey456
    Age
    24
    Posts
    9,763
    Rep Power
    101
    Points
    158,252 (0 Banked)
    Items LuluFangLightningOlivia WildeLucy PinderMichelle MarshVita360 SlimPS3 Fat
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Varsh View Post
    That pretty much sums up exactly what I was thinking and saying. The main part "So competitive that hed take his life into his own hands by stepping into traffic in a black firesuit on a dark track?" pretty much sums it all up.
    Yeah I mean who wouldn't get $#@!y and feel like they're untouchable when you achieve so much at a young age, I mean he's 20 years old and he's racing in these high powered cars alongside a guy like Tony Stewart.

    Just another tragic accident in motorsport it would seem




  23. #72
    Forum Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    31
    Posts
    8,479
    Rep Power
    102
    Points
    2,417 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    that’s an extreme way to think. You’re leaving out no grey area in there. So if a person walks in front of me in the middle of a road, I’m under no obligation to try my best to avoid the accident…they have made their decision and they are fully responsible for their own death because humans are without error and we should not focus on prevention.
    I am leaving a grey area though. It's just not as big as many would like it to be. I'm not going to put one's personal responsibility for their own willful actions in that grey area. In the case you're referring to with someone stepping out in front of you, you are not responsible for their actions. This isn't the same as me saying you shouldn't try to mitigate their actions if you're able to. However, I would hope that you do try wherever possible without causing other possible consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    That's some serious bull$#@! you just put down. If you truly believe it's a victim's fault for what someone else does to them then you've abandoned all sensibility and reason.
    No it's not. You are responsible for your own willful actions; you alone. If those actions lead to unintended or adverse consequences, you've no one to blame but yourself.

    Also, I apologize if I'm coming off as arrogant or haughty. I passionately believe that people are or should be held accountable for their own willful actions.

  24. #73
    Friendship is Carrots
    Nerevar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Equestria
    Age
    22
    Posts
    15,809
    Rep Power
    135
    Points
    82,275 (0 Banked)
    Achievements IT'S OVER 9000!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    No it's not. You are responsible for your own willful actions; you alone. If those actions lead to unintended or adverse consequences, you've no one to blame but yourself.
    It's the person's fault for being there, and that's as far as their blame goes. It's not their fault in any way if someone else decides to hurt or kill them.
    Add me on Steam!


    [Forum Rules]
    - [PSN] - [Programmers' Corner]

  25. #74
    PSU Technical Advisor
    Varsh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    W-s-M
    PSN ID
    UK-Varsh
    Age
    32
    Posts
    5,528
    Rep Power
    83
    Points
    20,651 (0 Banked)
    Items User name style
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    It's not their fault in any way if someone else decides to hurt or kill them.
    So in very low light and wearing black, did you honestly think it was easy for Stewart to see Ward in what most likely was pitch blackness behind him? If he could barely see him then how can he decide to hurt or kill him in such a short space of time when even natural reflexes to get out of the way probably wouldn't even work. It's an unfortunate set of circumstances. If he was wearing yellow or white or something bright then I'm pretty sure things might have turned out quite differently.

  26. #75
    Forum Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    31
    Posts
    8,479
    Rep Power
    102
    Points
    2,417 (0 Banked)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    It's the person's fault for being there, and that's as far as their blame goes. It's not their fault in any way if someone else decides to hurt or kill them.
    But like I said, circumstances are key to what happens. If someone is so hot-headed that they will willingly step out of their race car and onto the race track, they've no one to blame but themselves for whatever may or may not happen. Ward put himself in that situation. This should be ruled as vehicular-assisted suicide because what he did was suicidal.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
vBCredits II Deluxe v2.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2010-2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.