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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
    Guilty til proven innocent eh?
    and even when prove innocent, still guilty
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  2. #102
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    we all know that vigilante lied about everything.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    i'm looking at it again, he accelerates.

    [gif here]

    keep watching it from the moment the blue car passes him by.

    and while you're right that the car could've went his direction further after hitting him. but if you keep watching that gif, it's CLEAR to me at least that the starting point for stewart is much higher than the blue car. that is what i'm seeing.

    in addition, i want to say that he went his way as well before hitting him because he accelerated. and then the body caused his car to dwindle a bit. the whole thing looks like road rage to me.

    i never said he definitely had time to react, i'm saying that looking at the video, the car in front of him clearly slowed down a lot more, implying he knew of the situation. and then the other points i make...also do not look like stewart was innocent in this. so i'm going to assume that he knew and wanted to teach the kid a lesson.
    Sorry for the delay of response.

    Being completely honest - I don't see either car (Stewart, or the blue one head of him) accelerating. And in response to your later comment about the blue car slowing down... I really don't see that either.

    Like I said though - if Stewart wanted to hit Ward intentionally, he would've done it head on. The wing is what clipped him and it's evident in the gif. If Ward would've moved back to his right (Tony's left) after the blue car passed, and he still got hit, I absolutely would agree that the whole thing would've been intentional. But Ward didn't move back, he moved into Tony's blind spot and got killed as a result.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxman View Post
    Sorry for the delay of response.

    Being completely honest - I don't see either car (Stewart, or the blue one head of him) accelerating. And in response to your later comment about the blue car slowing down... I really don't see that either.

    Like I said though - if Stewart wanted to hit Ward intentionally, he would've done it head on. The wing is what clipped him and it's evident in the gif. If Ward would've moved back to his right (Tony's left) after the blue car passed, and he still got hit, I absolutely would agree that the whole thing would've been intentional. But Ward didn't move back, he moved into Tony's blind spot and got killed as a result.
    you mean to say, he didn't move his left and tony's right. moving right or tony's left would be in front of tony's car.

    he didn't move, that's exactly the point i'm trying to make. if he didn't move and wasn't hit before, that clearly means tony's car wasn't in the same direction the blue one was. and generally when the driver in front of you has taken precaution, you should have more time to do it.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    you mean to say, he didn't move his left and tony's right. moving right or tony's left would be in front of tony's car.

    he didn't move, that's exactly the point i'm trying to make. if he didn't move and wasn't hit before, that clearly means tony's car wasn't in the same direction the blue one was. and generally when the driver in front of you has taken precaution, you should have more time to do it.
    Yeah, my mistake.

    Ward WOULD'VE been hit if he didn't move out of the blue car's way though. He would've still been clipped by the wings, just like what happened when Stewart hit him. As I've said before, I don't see the blue car taking any precaution. To my eyes, Ward is the one who's moving to avoid any accidents, not the blue one, and not Stewart.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxman View Post
    Yeah, my mistake.

    Ward WOULD'VE been hit if he didn't move out of the blue car's way though. He would've still been clipped by the wings, just like what happened when Stewart hit him. As I've said before, I don't see the blue car taking any precaution. To my eyes, Ward is the one who's moving to avoid any accidents, not the blue one, and not Stewart.
    you're just going to have to look at it again, it's very clear that the blue car is much slower after it passes him. whereas tony's not. i guess some people just can't tell but the speed difference imo is roughly 10mph or more.

    another thing, yes, he moved out of the blue car's way, and that's why it's important to note because he didn't move towards the track after that, in fact, he kept moving outwards, so again considering that the car in front of him slowed down, it should have given tony enough time to see what was going on, drivers aren't blind on the track, they can see what's going on. it's not a 200mph track.

  7. #107
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    At this point it's hard to argue it because you're literally seeing something that I'm not seeing. The only cars I see going slow are the ones coming in after Ward was hit.

    With that said, drivers may not be blind, but they DO have blind spots. I believe Ward was in that blind spot. It's not a 200mph track, but sprint cars are capable of going above 140mph, and although he may not have been going that fast, it's not like he's driving down a neighborhood street either.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxman View Post
    At this point it's hard to argue it because you're literally seeing something that I'm not seeing. The only cars I see going slow are the ones coming in after Ward was hit.

    With that said, drivers may not be blind, but they DO have blind spots. I believe Ward was in that blind spot. It's not a 200mph track, but sprint cars are capable of going above 140mph, and although he may not have been going that fast, it's not like he's driving down a neighborhood street either.
    i would think it was more dangerous down a neighborhood but we're just talking about opinions at this point. why i don't support a blind-spot theory is because he wasn't cornering, he was going straight.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    i would think it was more dangerous down a neighborhood but we're just talking about opinions at this point. why i don't support a blind-spot theory is because he wasn't cornering, he was going straight.
    Looking at photos of the car used in the race, I'm gonna backtrack on what I said about Ward being clipped by the wing. He would've been hit by the tire first, but you can see him vanish behind the car as if it was only passing him). It sort of looks like he was falling forward before Stewart even hit him.

    I have no idea what to believe based on the video Huffington Post used on their article. According to CBS news, one possibility is the right rear of the car is what hit him. Maybe it was result of him trying to get out of the way?

    EDIT: Apparently, there's a second video that authorities obtained from another fan who recorded the incident that gives the "ring rear tire" idea some validity.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-unknown.html

    The video hasn't gone public yet though, so take it as you will.
    Last edited by Boxman; 08-19-2014 at 19:00.
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  10. #110
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    from what i see, he was trying to get away. in the split second that the blue car goes past him, note how he never recovers, he jumps out of the way from the blue car and the camera goes back to him and it seems that he realized tony's car was going to hit him, so from what i see is that he tried to retreat again. since he had already retreated from the previous car, this "could" also mean that tony's car was coming towards his direction more than the previous car because he never went towards the track after the blue car passed him.

  11. #111
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    I read up some stuff on sprint cars and apparently you steer them more with the throttle than the steering wheel itself because they handle better at higher speeds, also to make the rear of the car turn left you have to accelerate and turn the steering wheel to the right




  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
    I read up some stuff on sprint cars and apparently you steer them more with the throttle than the steering wheel itself because they handle better at higher speeds, also to make the rear of the car turn left you have to accelerate and turn the steering wheel to the right
    except he wasn't cornering and there was no reason to speed up when clearly there was something going on. to me it looks like the blue car realized he was on track, tony basically did the opposite of what the car in front of him did...that looks suspicious to me.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    except he wasn't cornering and there was no reason to speed up when clearly there was something going on. to me it looks like the blue car realized he was on track, tony basically did the opposite of what the car in front of him did...that looks suspicious to me.
    other than the reason that sprint car racers use the throttle to turn the car at lower speeds which seems to suggest he sped up to try and avoid Kevin




  14. #114
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    How else is he going to move in a different direction without turning? He doesn't have to be at the corner to go left.

    That would give the right rear tire theory even more leeway. Ward didn't foresee the car ass-ending him, hence why he got hit and dragged, but wasn't hit when the nose of the car passes him.
    Last edited by Boxman; 08-19-2014 at 19:24. Reason: acidentally'd my grammar
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
    other than the reason that sprint car racers use the throttle to turn the car at lower speeds which seems to suggest he sped up to try and avoid Kevin
    Quote Originally Posted by Boxman View Post
    How else is he going to move in a different direction without turning? He doesn't have to be at the corner to go left.

    That would give the right rear tire theory even more leeway. Ward didn't foresee the car ass-ending him, hence why he got hit and dragged, but was hit when the nose of the car passes him.
    what you guys are talking about is a racing maneuver that isn't exclusive to this racing cars.

    any racing car would typically go right before making a left, that's the basic foundation of cornering.

    and yes, throttling makes sense if you want to turn a certain way in a muddy track. That’s not exclusive to these cars or track, it’s called drifting.
    where i think none of that applies is because

    1) he wasn’t cornering, he didn’t need to go right in order to go left. Which is what you do when you’re cornering.
    2) he doesn’t need to do the throttle to turn because he wasn’t supposed to be racing/speeding, he was slowing down and/or trying to avoid ward…from what we agree so far. Unless you’re telling me that he wasn’t trying to avoid him and never saw him there…so you’d have to throw out the throttle and cornering technique because according to you guys, he was doing that in order to avoid ward.
    What I’m saying is that you don’t have to throttle in order to turn these cars, that’s ridiculous, it would make these cars extremely dangerous…this technique would likely be used when you’re racing and speeding, not when you’re slowing down and turning. You’d have to otherwise prove that these cars can’t turn without throttling or in other words, drifting.
    Throttle would make sense if he was cornering and was in a race. You should be able to slow down and turn as well.
    3) he was clearly coming at him before he even throttled. So to me, none of those apply regardless. Why would you come towards a person if you were trying to avoid them? Makes no sense to me. Tony follows the same laws of physics that we do…I’m curious as to why these cars aren’t normal and you have to drift in order to make the smallest changes in direction. with all due respect, that's bull.

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    1. But he didn't go right until Ward was being dragged by the tires. If anything, he went left but the tail end went right, IF he did see him. Taking into account what MAY have happened, I think Stewart may have turned left first and ass-ended him as a result.

    2. Regarding not seeing him, I'm going to backpedal what I said about that too. Given how his car is built, how much time he had to see Ward prior to hitting him, and how the accident might have possibly happened according to authorities, it is definitely possible that he saw them.

    3. He was not coming at Ward. Watch it again. The nose of the car clearly missed Ward.
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  17. #117
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    Well I was just going by an article written by someone who has driven a winged sprint car...




  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxman View Post
    1. But he didn't go right until Ward was being dragged by the tires. If anything, he went left but the tail end went right, IF he did see him. Taking into account what MAY have happened, I think Stewart may have turned left first and ass-ended him as a result.

    2. Regarding not seeing him, I'm going to backpedal what I said about that too. Given how his car is built, how much time he had to see Ward prior to hitting him, and how the accident might have possibly happened according to authorities, it is definitely possible that he saw them.

    3. He was not coming at Ward. Watch it again. The nose of the car clearly missed Ward.
    i can't say that he was turning towards him, what i do notice is that his car is more towards him than the previous one. i think that's where we just see differently. i'll take a look again once i have more time and hopefully even make some drawing (though i'm not good with stuff like that) on the stills and see if i'm just calculating it wrong because it's possible the camera could have changed position so it may make it look different than it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
    Well I was just going by an article written by someone who has driven a winged sprint car...
    well i'm not disagreeing with how a sprint car is raced, i was just disagreeing with the situation where those techniques would be used.

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    Look at the video :036. That, to me, seems to be the moment of impact. The back side of the car turns left as the car as a whole starts veering right. It really doesn't look intentional to me.
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