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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    "Nobody expects Sony or Microsoft to provide their conference to announce something for competitive platforms"

    Riighht

    So it is only unacceptable if they dont announce for the competitions platform when they announce it as exclusive for the holiday season.

    They never ever said it was exclusive full stop at that PR briefing did they? No they did not.

    So tell me why its ok for a
    company to not mention other platforms at an announce but not if its a timed exclusive?

    Gimma break.

    There was no reason they should say "only for a while then its coming to other platforms."
    Dude....you are being ridiculous. Microsoft announced TR as a Xbox exclusive. Period. And to compare that to not mentioning competing brands of the same game. I hope you are smarter than that. Seriously, I do.

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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Dude....you are being ridiculous. Microsoft announced TR as a Xbox exclusive. Period. And to compare that to not mentioning competing brands of the same game. I hope you are smarter than that. Seriously, I do.
    Well if you think they announced this as exclusive their wordplay did its job didn't it then.

    It was ALWAYS proceeded by "for holiday 2015".

    But answer me this. When Sony pulled the same manoeuvre with ghostbusters where was the outcry?

    I understand people are upset with the way it was announced, but as I said it was pr wordplay.

    The indignation at them actually doing it? Just sour grapes.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Well if you think they announced this as exclusive their wordplay did its job didn't it then.

    It was ALWAYS proceeded by "for holiday 2015".

    But answer me this. When Sony pulled the same manoeuvre with ghostbusters where was the outcry?

    I understand people are upset with the way it was announced, but as I said it was pr wordplay.

    The indignation at them actually doing it? Just sour grapes.
    Bull$#@!.

    "coming holiday 2015, exclusively to Xbox"



    Before you try to spin those words. "coming holiday 2015" is when. "exclusively to xbox" speaks for itself.

    There was no "FOR".
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Bull$#@!.

    "coming holiday 2015, exclusively to Xbox"



    Before you try to spin those words. "coming holiday 2015" is when. "exclusively to xbox" speaks for itself.

    There was no "FOR".
    Oh dear you got me... dam...I guess I shouldn't paraphrase.

    Really? "Coming holiday 2015, exclusively to xbox" is not two sentences.
    See the comma?

    Also

    Phil Harrison:52:07 "Thats right we are incredibly excited to have Rise of the Tomb Raider come to our platform in 2015 exclusivley"
    Phil Spencer:1:37:40 "Rise of the tomb raider will be joining the list of Xbox exclusives in holiday 2015"


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW6SveI_0gA

  5. #80
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    dbls

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Oh dear you got me... dam...I guess I shouldn't paraphrase.

    Really? "Coming holiday 2015, exclusively to xbox" is not two sentences.
    See the comma?

    Also

    Phil Harrison:52:07 "Thats right we are incredibly excited to have Rise of the Tomb Raider come to our platform in 2015 exclusivley"
    Phil Spencer:1:37:40 "Rise of the tomb raider will be joining the list of Xbox exclusives in holiday 2015"


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW6SveI_0gA
    It is not coming exclusive though, it is coming first to Xbox.
    They are two completely different things.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    It is not coming exclusive though, it is coming first to Xbox.
    They are two completely different things.
    Its not coming to any other system in 2015.
    It is exclusive in 2015 to Xbox.

    See what I mean about wording.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Its not coming to any other system in 2015.
    It is exclusive in 2015 to Xbox.

    See what I mean about wording.
    That is not the correct use of the word exclusive though. In the same way if someone does not have sex for a month does not make them a virgin for that month.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitbydeath View Post
    That is not the correct use of the word exclusive though. In the same way if someone does not have sex for a month does not make them a virgin for that month.
    Exclusive means to exclude others.

    Virgin means you have never had sex.

    Tell me, if they said timed exclusive you'd be fine?

    If they said timed exclusive for 6 months you'd be fine with it?

    But if they say exclusive for this period of time you don't think its the correct meaning?

    Sorry but no.

    They can happily say "Exclusive for holiday 2015". Its just more specific than "exclusive for a period of time" which is what timed exclusive means.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath View Post
    You prove my point about entitled gamers.

    Pleasing your fanbase doesn't necessarily result in better business. I know that it's a good idea to honour your fans but sometimes that's not enough.
    This is why I say this deal is really short sited of CD. Fewer sales now could easily have a (or in this case not have) a snowball effect on later sales. I share this opinion with a lot of others. Hell, even the guys at podcast unlocked..(!)


    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath View Post
    For the last $#@!ing time, companies want your money. And they will still get that money if they release the game on PS4 later, mark my words.
    Sure they'll get money. Just not to their full potential. I'm not the one kidding myself by believing there will be a drastically lesser purchase intent after newyears and worse - 3-6 months down the line. People were made to wait. "Why not wait a little while longer?"
    -Bargain bin
    Last edited by K2D; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:07.

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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2D View Post
    Sure they'll get money. Just not to their full potential. I'm not the one kidding myself by believing there will be a drastically lesser purchase intent after newyears and worse - 3-6 months down the line. People were made to wait. "Why not wait a little while longer?" -Bargain bin
    I tend to agree with you on this one.
    I think the trick will be when they release it.
    If they release when there is a dry spell on the PS4 it may do all right.

  12. #87
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    Sure, there might be a perceived dry spell. There really shouldn't be one though, with all the indies we're getting. People are spoiled for choice. Not like the ps3's early years!

    Wishlist: Jade Cocoon Reboot, Oni Reboot, the next JRPG, Wasteland 2 [coming soon!]
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2D View Post
    Sure, there might be a perceived dry spell. There really shouldn't be one though, with all the indies we're getting. People are spoiled for choice. Not like the ps3's early years!
    Not everyone likes indies, and they aren't really in the same league as a triple A titles.
    There are always dry spells on all systems.
    Last edited by mynd; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:12.

  14. #89
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    Yeah.. spoiled.. It shouldn't be like that. A lot of indie titles are identical to the games that mid sized publishers might have backed. We all liked them back in the day? Even many of the so-called "pixel art" games are worth checking out and have tens of hours of enjoyment in them. I've successfully advertised a certain indie title to two customers who let me know they where pleasantly surprised with how deep these games are. People seem to dismiss anything that they don't have to spend more than 40 dollars on.. :P
    Last edited by K2D; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:23.

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  15. #90
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    Oh there is some dam good indie game for sure these days.

  16. #91
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    Timed exclusives are a weird thing at the best of time. They are built almost entirely on the fact gamers are ridiculously impatient. Logically, waiting 6 months to buy any game, no matter the platform is probably the best move financially, games usually drop below 50% of their initial price by then. The market would likely collapse is gamers weren't impatient though, since a triple A game typically has only 2 weeks to make the majority of its sales. It's also why pre-orders have become such a big deal.

    This is why we get timed exclusives. The goal is to concentrate as many sales into that two week period on one specific platform, counting on gamers being so impatient they might be willing to buy a second console or buy a game on a less preferred platform to play it now, rather than wait 6 months. I'm not sure of the logic of picking the smaller user base however, which tends to defeat the point. I get why MS is doing it, but CD and SE make less sense in terms of sales performance advantages. But I suspect MS pays a lot of money, enough to fund most of the development of a game, which significantly reduces the burden of making the game, just for a shot at more sales in that two week period. MS doesn't make the lion's share on third party games, which probably makes this a dumb long term move on their part. They'd likely make more money, get more good will, and do better as an exclusive platform holder creating new first party studios and not funding third party titles that will almost all end up on Sony platforms, especially if sales aren't as good as hoped.

    I think everyone involved should be honest about it however, no ambiguous or misleading announcements.

    I think a better move would be for every publisher to re-release games a year or so later for a reduced price with some extra features, which would give them a new 2 week window to generate sales, which is the whole point of the various best seller programs. Especially games that get a lot of DLC support. Okay, not every game, Magus on the pS3 should never have been released in the first place...

    I personally know my preferred platform, third party games, no matter how exclusive, timed or otherwise, aren't generally enough to interest me. If they tank or if they do really well chances are good some version will end up on my preferred platform, eventually, and there's always a chance they'll be better for the delay. Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 are better on the PS3 than the 360, since they both used the Mass Effect 3 engine and including pretty much all the DLC. I've little doubt games like Titan Fall and Sunset Overdrive will eventually see expanded releases or sequels on the PS4. First party games are the only thing that makes buying a platform worth it, and I need a specific number I have to play before I'll blow the money needed to play on the other platform.

    I'm not gonna bother getting too bent out of shape over Tomb Raider, yes I enjoyed the last one, and the game's history on Sony platforms and Xbox One's half sized user base all suggest it would show up on PS4 eventually. I'm more concerned that CD is still making multi-generation games which is far more annoying, I want games developed for the new platforms without any legacy for the old.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacP View Post
    Developers putting money as prority rather than respect.
    Well, no. Developers can only work if they're paid. Development takes time and people, 1, 2, more years. The Game publisher pays that. So the ones deciding these exclusivities are the Game publishers (EA, Ubi, SE ...).
    A very big budget game takes way more than a year to produce. The game has been on production for already more than a year now, I guess both for X1, PS4 and PC, the thing is Microsoft paid to push nack the release for the other platforms and both Crystal Dynamics and SE aren't allowed to say which date the PS4/PC will get the game. A date announced for PS4/PC that is 6 months or a year after the X1 release will just cinfirm the game was already being produced at the date of release and announcement of the X exclusivity.
    So actually this will do only good for the PS4/PC game, it will still be developed separately with no downgrade due to the X1 tech limitations. If we're lucky we'll even have more content.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Oh dear you got me... dam...I guess I shouldn't paraphrase.

    Really? "Coming holiday 2015, exclusively to xbox" is not two sentences.
    See the comma?

    Also

    Phil Harrison:52:07 "Thats right we are incredibly excited to have Rise of the Tomb Raider come to our platform in 2015 exclusivley"
    Phil Spencer:1:37:40 "Rise of the tomb raider will be joining the list of Xbox exclusives in holiday 2015"


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW6SveI_0gA
    paraphrasing, my ass. You quoted.

    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    It was ALWAYS proceeded by "for holiday 2015".
    I'm going to be online in 10 minutes. I'm going to be online for 10 minutes. In=when. for=how long. MS didn't say "for". One minute you claim to be paraphrasing and the next you are mincing out commas. ffs

    Ugh.....I"m done. Better things to do than this mess.
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  20. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    "Nobody expects Sony or Microsoft to provide their conference to announce something for competitive platforms"

    Exactly.

    So it is only unacceptable if they dont announce for the competitions platform when they announce it as exclusive for the holiday season?

    They never ever said it was exclusive full stop at that PR briefing did they? No they did not.

    So tell me why its ok for a
    company to not mention other platforms at an announce but not if its a timed exclusive?

    Gimma break.

    There was no reason they should say "only for a while then its coming to other platforms."

    At least they are giving you fair warning.
    I bet everyones forgot the Ghostbusters fiasco.
    Stop trying to control the direction of the discussion because you are losing sight of what it is that was being discussed in the first place. This isn't about Sony > Microsoft or Microsoft > Sony.

    You were trying to equalize two different things. They are not the same thing. It is that simple. I don't care about your other argument (who is worse of the lot or they both do it so it's all whatever) because your opinion on that isn't surprising to me.

    So far, from my perspective, you've been trying to spin, spin, spin. If the D3 announcement was the best example you could have come up with you are really grasping at straws. I am sure you'll find something if you dig deep enough.

    Tomb Raider was announced as an Xbox exclusive and there was confusion surrounding it and IT IS the most recent example of a company doing it. The events that took place after are evidence of that.

    It wasn't clear to anyone what sort of exclusive the game was, not the why it wasn't announced for other platforms - this is another example of you trying to steer the discussion away so you can come back saying you were right, not going to work this time.

    Crystal Dynamics had to write a blog post and later apologize for the confusion. You can't spin your way out of this because like it or not, Chris nor I are in control of how the internet reacts to news.

    MS has made announcements like this before without mentioning competitive platforms (COD DLC, GTA Expansion Packs, etc - there was no confusion about those.) This wasn't their first time. So what happened this time, mynd?

    • People didn't understand why a sequel to a multi-platform title was exclusive.
    • People (like it or not) were confused about the duration of exclusivity - permanent or timed.
    • People did not understand how it benefited all parties involved.
    Last edited by sainraja; 4 Weeks Ago at 15:39.

  21. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    paraphrasing, my ass. You quoted.
    Dude, I was in my car on taptalk,waiting to pick up my kids, if you really feel the fact that my point wasnt that every time they mentioned the word exclusive it it had the word 2015 in the same sentence, and that it was the word "for" then sorry I mislead you.
    Thats not my point. Otherwise you are being very pedantic.

    I'm going to be online in 10 minutes. I'm going to be online for 10 minutes. In=when. for=how long. MS didn't say "for". One minute you claim to be paraphrasing and the next you are mincing out commas. ffs

    Ugh.....I"m done. Better things to do than this mess.
    Tense?
    I'm gong to be online in 2014.
    I'm not going to be online in 2015 as I will be in space.

    Hells teeth talking about missing the fricken point.

    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    Stop trying to control the direction of the discussion because you are losing sight of what it is that was being discussed in the first place. This isn't about Sony > Microsoft or Microsoft > Sony.
    No one said it was, I fricken well said they all BS and PR the words.
    You were trying to equalize two different things. They are not the same thing. It is that simple. I don't care about your other argument (who is worse of the lot or they both do it so it's all whatever) because your opinion on that isn't surprising to me.
    The I cant say you can read very well, and you seem to have a bias myopic vision.

    They all "do these things". For you guys who think this is somehow a facet of MS only, that they are the only ones who buy timed exclusivity, your wrong.
    But not less so than any other company does.
    That twitter by Greneburg was just wrong though.

    Smoke and mirrors are always out there.

    Remember PS4 announce.
    Remember all the things we took away...

    -Deep Down a full PS4 excluive by Capcom -turns out its Free to play, Japan only game
    -Diablo 3 was going to be PS4 exclusive with a deal done between Sony and Blizzard

    It goes on and on. Its a stupid marketing gimmick they all do.

    So far, from my perspective, you've been trying to spin, spin, spin. If the D3 announcement was the best example you could have come up with you are really grasping at straws. I am sure you'll find something if you dig deep enough.
    Again, from your perspective is clearly more than slightly bias.
    Your pissed because I cam up with an examaple of PR BS on the Sony side.

    Would you like tme to balnce that out?

    Sure, well look at Tomb Raider Announcment for one.
    Look at the Conker announcement that was less than genuine.

    Happy now.

    <shakes head>

    How dare I suggest they all do it.
    Tomb Raider was announced as an Xbox exclusive and there was confusion surrounding it and IT IS the most recent example of a company doing it. The events that took place after are evidence of that.

    It wasn't clear to anyone what sort of exclusive the game was, not the why it wasn't announced for other platforms - this is another example of you trying to steer the discussion away so you can come back saying you were right, not going to work this time.
    They were deliberate being obtuse, by not telling you information.

    And I'm going to piss you off here, but Blizzard REFUSED to answer question about competing platforms for Diablo 3 for a very lengthy period.

    Why? Necuase they want to spin this into a perceived link between product and platform.

    It's PR 101.

    Is the fact that they went with timed exclusivity out of the norm? Yes, it doesn't happen often (It does happen).

    The fact that they continue this PR BS normal.
    Absolutely.
    Crystal Dynamics had to write a blog post and later apologize for the confusion. You can't spin your way out of this because like it or not, Chris nor I are in control of how the internet reacts to news.
    No indeed not, but you don't get what I'm saying.
    I'm not a fan of they way they announced, but it was "technically" correct, again I just see it as another PR BS thing you have to see through.
    MS has made announcements like this before without mentioning competitive platforms (COD DLC, GTA Expansion Packs, etc - there was no confusion about those.) This wasn't their first time. So what happened this time, mynd?
    Im sorry but what? Exclusive DLC for GTA ring any bells?

    GTA IV DLC was never ever mentioned for any other platform. And was dam well denied for a long time.


    http://spong.com/article/15414/Micro...ssible-for-PS3

    http://www.playstationtrophies.org/n...r-the-PS3.html



    • People didn't understand why a sequel to a multi-platform title was exclusive.
    • People (like it or not) were confused about the duration of exclusivity - permanent or timed.
    • People did not understand how it benefited all parties involved.
    Ive got questions about the benefits of this deal to anyone as well ( I didn't even particularly like the TR reboot).

    But, and here's the thing, the whole industry is just sliding down hill with press PR BS.

    Watch, please, this sums up my thoughts precisely.



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    I see you are still trying to steer this into Sony v Microsoft. I'm really just wasting my time here.

    PR this, or PR that. The entire concept of announcing something (controlling the information that you make available to the public etc for good reasons or bad) goes under public relations. This has become my tagline but you're not telling anyone anything new here.

    And, you know, I am not the one keeping a list of what Sony has done vs what Microsoft has done. That's entirely been you, mynd - don't try to pin that on me; that's the role you've been playing here.

    Anytime someone tries to talk about this deal and the truth is MS was involved in it -- you can't deny this, you bring up what Sony has done as if that changes anything.

    You need to re-read the portion I said about GTA DLC. That's my point. MS has made similar announcements before (so has Sony); and I don't remember people questioning why MS or Sony made those deals or even being confused by it (they understood the why, won't argue that they were happy with it.) The biggest element being different this time was that it was a sequel to a game so everyone was confused by it.

    There was confusion. There were questions. Don't ask me why it didn't happen before. Ask MS / CD or SE. What did they do differently to generate a different reaction?

    I am not saying people were necessarily happy with the deals in the past. That's not the point I am trying to make here.

    ----

    I'll just end this discussion here. You think it is all the same type of PR BS. Fine. You can keep on thinking that.

    I don't see providing your platform to announce a game and suggesting something as exclusive (vs timed) as being the same thing. It doesn't matter if the company in question is Sony or MS. Sure, it's all PR. But it's not the same type of PR "BS" that you are trying to say it is.

    That's the point I was trying to address. It doesn't matter to me if they all do it or who is more guilty of it - that's been your angle and I've been trying to avoid getting into it.
    Last edited by sainraja; 4 Weeks Ago at 21:48. Reason: added Sony as to avoid getting into another Sony VS MS thing

  23. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by sainraja View Post
    I see you are still trying to steer this into Sony v Microsoft. I'm really just wasting my time here.

    PR this, or PR that. The entire concept of announcing something (controlling the information that you make available to the public etc for good reasons or bad) goes under public relations. This has become my tagline but you're not telling anyone anything new here.

    And, you know, I am not the one keeping a list of what Sony has done vs what Microsoft has done. That's entirely been you, mynd - don't try to pin that on me; that's the role you've been playing here.

    Anytime someone tries to talk about this deal and the truth is MS was involved in it -- you can't deny this, you bring up what Sony has done as if that changes anything.

    You need to re-read the portion I said about GTA DLC. That's my point. MS has made similar announcements before (so has Sony); and I don't remember people questioning why MS or Sony made those deals or even being confused by it (they understood the why, won't argue that they were happy with it.) The biggest element being different this time was that it was a sequel to a game so everyone was confused by it.

    There was confusion. There were questions. Don't ask me why it didn't happen before. Ask MS / CD or SE. What did they do differently to generate a different reaction?

    I am not saying people were necessarily happy with the deals in the past. That's not the point I am trying to make here.

    ----

    I'll just end this discussion here. You think it is all the same type of PR BS. Fine. You can keep on thinking that.

    I don't see providing your platform to announce a game and suggesting something as exclusive (vs timed) as being the same thing. It doesn't matter if the company in question is Sony or MS. Sure, it's all PR. But it's not the same type of PR "BS" that you are trying to say it is.

    That's the point I was trying to address. It doesn't matter to me if they all do it or who is more guilty of it - that's been your angle and I've been trying to avoid getting into it.
    I'm going to ignore your jabs about "vs", because it isn't something I am going to bother defending other than to say this.
    INDUSTRYWIDE.


    Look at the methodology and result.

    Announce something
    Do not give all the facts
    Imply, or explicitly say a link between game and platforms(I really don't care if it exclusive DLC, or timed exclusivity, or as vague as "entering into a partnership with")
    Leave out fine print.


    That is PR BS.

    Yes, this one was more EXPLICIT than most, but that is because your use to the others now. You are used to knowing how these things roll, but the first time a company did said DLC deal (GTA etc) there were question asked, there were feathers ruffled, to suggest this is somehow the first time ambiguous statements where made to benefit the perceived link between game and platform is just rubbish.

    Yes its a "new" way of announcing it, but its by no means the first time its been pulled.
    If you don't think there has ever been confusion over announcements before...bwah?

    Most of this initial furor was over the way it was announced, I get that.
    The continued berating of CD for doing such a deal? I don't get that at all. They made the deal, they signed, its their dam IP we just have to live with it.

    It is nothing more than a continuation of one-up-manship, PR blurb and taking away content form us as public then giving it back to a chosen few, that has been going on for years.

    Does it mean we have slipped further, oh hell yes. Does it make it any different to all the $#@! being pulled in the past?
    Well what the hell sort of end game did you see this "exclusive to platform" was going to take?

    We had already been slipping:

    from exclusive timed DLC
    to exclusive DLC
    to exclusive day one DLC (which is nothing more than saying, we took content away from the other versions of the game)
    to timed exclusivity

    P.S. If you believe Ive been trying to say one is more guilty than the other you haven't been paying any attention to what I have been saying.
    Last edited by mynd; 4 Weeks Ago at 23:03.

  24. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I'm going to ignore your jabs about "vs", because it isn't something I am going to bother defending other than to say this.
    INDUSTRYWIDE.


    Look at the methodology and result.

    Announce something
    Do not give all the facts
    Imply, or explicitly say a link between game and platforms(I really don't care if it exclusive DLC, or timed exclusivity, or as vague as "entering into a partnership with")
    Leave out fine print.


    That is PR BS.

    Yes, this one was more EXPLICIT than most, but that is because your use to the others now. You are used to knowing how these things roll, but the first time a company did said DLC deal (GTA etc) there were question asked, there were feathers ruffled, to suggest this is somehow the first time ambiguous statements where made to benefit the perceived link between game and platform is just rubbish.

    Yes its a "new" way of announcing it, but its by no means the first time its been pulled.
    If you don't think there has ever been confusion over announcements before...bwah?

    Most of this initial furor was over the way it was announced, I get that.
    The continued berating of CD for doing such a deal? I don't get that at all. They made the deal, they signed, its their dam IP we just have to live with it.

    It is nothing more than a continuation of one-up-manship, PR blurb and taking away content form us as public then giving it back to a chosen few, that has been going on for years.

    Does it mean we have slipped further, oh hell yes. Does it make it any different to all the $#@! being pulled in the past?
    Well what the hell sort of end game did you see this "exclusive to platform" was going to take?

    We had already been slipping:

    from exclusive timed DLC
    to exclusive DLC
    to exclusive day one DLC (which is nothing more than saying, we took content away from the other versions of the game)
    to timed exclusivity

    P.S. If you believe Ive been trying to say one is more guilty than the other you haven't been paying any attention to what I have been saying.
    so to sum up all your posts....Microsoft does not wrong and no one should ever say anything against them.... Right?
    141.12

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  26. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos144 View Post
    so to sum up all your posts....Microsoft does not wrong and no one should ever say anything against them.... Right?
    OMG.
    Where is that brick wall.

    They are all doing wrong, every single one of them is screwing us over as public in the belief that they can get away with getting more money for less.

  27. #100
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    If it's timed exclusive I say let them. The game will come out on PS4 eventually and until then we'll be focused on other awesome games that will be available for us.







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