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  1. #26
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  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    Giving a young, small girl an uzi and standing next to it didn't seem like a dangerous situation for the instructor? :s
    completely agree.
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    9-Year-Old Girl Accidently Shoots, Kills Gun Instructor With Uzi

    Poor girl, I feel so sorry for her.

    No sympathy at all for anyone else involved in this video.
    Last edited by mynd; 08-28-2014 at 04:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    Giving a young, small girl an uzi and standing next to it didn't seem like a dangerous situation for the instructor? :s

    And people outside American culture criticizing American culture? Typical, meh. Nothing wrong with guns and nothing wrong with showing kids how to use them. My 12 year old cousin was firing a shotgun at discs a few months ago and having fun, as was everyone else there (it was a big get together out in the country). Except people were smart enough to stand far out of his way and made sure he understood what to do.

    I feel really bad for the girl here. It was a genuine mistake that took the instructors life and will leave her scarred for a good while.

    After seeing $#@! like the Ferguson incident at anyone wanting stricter gun awls in America. Our Government is $#@!ing nuts and we need to be armed for when the revolution inevitably happens.
    Completely agree on all counts. And for anyone who hasn't paid attention, it was a ricochet from one of the bullets that killed the instructor. This was indeed a genuine accident.

    Also, these "lol Murika" comments need to stop. Stricter gun laws will only hurt the law abiding citizen as Yuuichi pointed out and will NOT deter the criminal. If anything, gun laws need to be relaxed and some need to be repealed. There is absolutely no need for a firearms registry act nor should the barrier of entry to obtaining a firearm need be so harsh on the law abiding citizen when the criminal doesn't have the same barriers of entry and can obtain a firearm with little to no hassle whatsoever. There are obviously too many brain dead folks in the real world and on the internet.

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  7. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuuichi View Post
    Because we do not need more strict gun laws, doing so would hurt average Joe because guess what criminals do not give a $#@! about laws(still mind boggling how people do not get this), what we need is smarter people to learn the ways of gun handling. Thankfully for everyone of these idiots there is way more who do know gun safety but media never reports how my gun is safely locked up and has not killed a person for 365, just morons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerevar View Post
    Giving a young, small girl an uzi and standing next to it didn't seem like a dangerous situation for the instructor? :s

    And people outside American culture criticizing American culture? Typical, meh. Nothing wrong with guns and nothing wrong with showing kids how to use them. My 12 year old cousin was firing a shotgun at discs a few months ago and having fun, as was everyone else there (it was a big get together out in the country). Except people were smart enough to stand far out of his way and made sure he understood what to do.

    I feel really bad for the girl here. It was a genuine mistake that took the instructors life and will leave her scarred for a good while.



    After seeing $#@! like the Ferguson incident at anyone wanting stricter gun awls in America. Our Government is $#@!ing nuts and we need to be armed for when the revolution inevitably happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    Completely agree on all counts. And for anyone who hasn't paid attention, it was a ricochet from one of the bullets that killed the instructor. This was indeed a genuine accident.

    Also, these "lol Murika" comments need to stop. Stricter gun laws will only hurt the law abiding citizen as Yuuichi pointed out and will NOT deter the criminal. If anything, gun laws need to be relaxed and some need to be repealed. There is absolutely no need for a firearms registry act nor should the barrier of entry to obtaining a firearm need be so harsh on the law abiding citizen when the criminal doesn't have the same barriers of entry and can obtain a firearm with little to no hassle whatsoever. There are obviously too many brain dead folks in the real world and on the internet.
    I'm not talking about banning guns or anything like that. I'm talking about having some kind of rules around getting a weapon which makes it harder for people who shouldn't have access to guns to get one (kids and mentally ill persons for example). And I'm not talking about criminals/gangs, they will get their guns either way. I'm talking about age limits, licences and availability. You seem to think that more guns out on the streets makes your society a safer place to live. To me that sounds totally wrong. You make it sound like you guys live in a war zone or something like that. Is it really that common in the US that average Joe gets directly affected (attacked) by criminals/gangs so often that you all need to be armed to your teeth with weapons that originally was made for war? If it is like that I feel really sorry for you.

    To those who think people outside the US shouldn't air their opinions. Well, as long as Americans think they can tell the rest of the world what to do I think you have to be able to take some criticism or advice from the rest of the world.

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  9. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    Completely agree on all counts. And for anyone who hasn't paid attention, it was a ricochet from one of the bullets that killed the instructor. This was indeed a genuine accident.

    Also, these "lol Murika" comments need to stop. Stricter gun laws will only hurt the law abiding citizen as Yuuichi pointed out and will NOT deter the criminal. If anything, gun laws need to be relaxed and some need to be repealed. There is absolutely no need for a firearms registry act nor should the barrier of entry to obtaining a firearm need be so harsh on the law abiding citizen when the criminal doesn't have the same barriers of entry and can obtain a firearm with little to no hassle whatsoever. There are obviously too many brain dead folks in the real world and on the internet.
    Gangs tend to kill each other mainly. Criminals will of course work around the system if they have to. But if you're average Joe you can get one with not too much trouble. And then you're free to kill all the other kidz with their pumped up kicks.

    There are obviously too many brain dead folks in the real world and on the internet.
    And you want these people to have easier access to guns?!?!?!?!?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Libra-75 View Post
    I'm not talking about banning guns or anything like that. I'm talking about having some kind of rules around getting a weapon which makes it harder for people who shouldn't have access to guns to get one (kids and mentally ill persons for example). And I'm not talking about criminals/gangs, they will get their guns either way. I'm talking about age limits, licences and availability. You seem to think that more guns out on the streets makes your society a safer place to live. To me that sounds totally wrong. You make it sound like you guys live in a war zone or something like that. Is it really that common in the US that average Joe gets directly affected (attacked) by criminals/gangs so often that you all need to be armed to your teeth with weapons that originally was made for war? If it is like that I feel really sorry for you.

    To those who think people outside the US shouldn't air their opinions. Well, as long as Americans think they can tell the rest of the world what to do I think you have to be able to take some criticism or advice from the rest of the world.
    The thing is, there are more than enough laws on the books to deal with every aspect of firearms and one's ability to obtain one. Do we really need more? What I'm saying is that the more guns are out in the hands of law abiding citizens and the low the barrier of entry is, the safer society is. Have you ever heard the term, "walk softly and carry a big stick"? People who own firearms tend to be a bit more respectful towards others and they tend to keep much cooler heads about them. An armed society is a polite and courteous society. Against an armed society, criminals tend to think their actions through before committing to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by darky89 View Post
    Gangs tend to kill each other mainly. Criminals will of course work around the system if they have to. But if you're average Joe you can get one with not too much trouble. And then you're free to kill all the other kidz with their pumped up kicks.

    And you want these people to have easier access to guns?!?!?!?!?!
    I disagree. Gangs tend to go after those who they perceive as weak. The one gang you're leaving out of the equation is government and it's the biggest, baddest and most well-armed gang of them all. What are you to do against a gang like that? This gang has the worst criminals and these criminals don't work around any system. They build it to suit their goals and agendas and they make themselves immune from the repercussions of breaking the laws they can't change. What is average Joe to do against all this? The only sensible answer is for average Joe to, "arm up".

  11. #33
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    YOu make USA sound very unsafe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    The thing is, there are more than enough laws on the books to deal with every aspect of firearms and one's ability to obtain one. Do we really need more? What I'm saying is that the more guns are out in the hands of law abiding citizens and the low the barrier of entry is, the safer society is. Have you ever heard the term, "walk softly and carry a big stick"? People who own firearms tend to be a bit more respectful towards others and they tend to keep much cooler heads about them. An armed society is a polite and courteous society. Against an armed society, criminals tend to think their actions through before committing to them.



    I disagree. Gangs tend to go after those who they perceive as weak. The one gang you're leaving out of the equation is government and it's the biggest, baddest and most well-armed gang of them all. What are you to do against a gang like that? This gang has the worst criminals and these criminals don't work around any system. They build it to suit their goals and agendas and they make themselves immune from the repercussions of breaking the laws they can't change. What is average Joe to do against all this? The only sensible answer is for average Joe to, "arm up".

  12. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel View Post
    What is average Joe to do against all this? The only sensible answer is for average Joe to, "arm up".
    I wouldn't call that sensible personally.
    Anyway, yes governments pretty much do only look out for themselves and their agendas. But that's the same everywhere and the idea the people are going to rise up, firstly, is very unlikely and secondly, a bad thing. The result would be worse than current governments, it'd be chaos.

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    You know, I started putting my 9 year old daughter in the shoes of this girl last night, and I felt whole heatedly sick. I could never imagine putting my daughter in that situation in the first place, nor putting her through what this poor wee thing has to now endure for the rest of her life, because her $#@!wit of a family "thought guns are cool ok".

    In fact I'm as angry hell.
    Some people shouldn't be parents.
    Last edited by mynd; 08-28-2014 at 22:13.

  14. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by darky89 View Post
    I wouldn't call that sensible personally.
    Anyway, yes governments pretty much do only look out for themselves and their agendas. But that's the same everywhere and the idea the people are going to rise up, firstly, is very unlikely and secondly, a bad thing. The result would be worse than current governments, it'd be chaos.
    there is already chaos due to the government. it's a silent chaos that others cannot clearly see, not until you see the despicable acts the govt. does and lets happen against its own population. they have no loyalty to their people, it's smoke and mirrors.
    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    You know, I started putting my 9 year old daughter in the shoes of this girl last night, and I felt whole heatedly sick. I could never imagine putting my daughter in that situation in the first place, nor putting her through what this poor wee thing has to now endure for the rest of her life, because her $#@!wit of a family "thought guns are cool ok".

    In fact I'm as angry hell.
    Some people shouldn't be parents.
    the problem here is that there's no balance between individualism and collectivism. america (to me) is the only western culture (more importantly white culture) that prides itself with extreme attention to individuality and while that can have great results of accomplishments as a human being, in other sense, it can also lead people into areas where they really should not be.

    by that i mean, if someone tells someone else to do something, instead of taking it as a constructive criticism, they take it as an offense. and it's a grey area, some people are just douchebags, sure, while other times, it's not bad to listen. i've always supported individualism but after living a life i wanted without any other input, i realize there are consequences, there are times i wish someone had told me otherwise.

    so while i still support it and live my life the way i want to, i understand there needs to be a balance.

    what we see in america is individualism gone beyond culture and morals at times. i question morals myself sometimes. who says what's good or bad? what's correct and wrong?

    like in this case, yes, it was a bad idea but if the dude was better prepared and the girl was a bit more experienced or cautious, it could've turned out different. meaning, not all instances would've turned out this way, you can do it the right way. i don't have a problem that she's 9, my problem is that if there was inadequacies there then they should've been taken care of.

    i highly doubt that was just a freak accident. if the girl isn't experienced (which we can guess) then these odds weren't that low.

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    Society will always have a collective moral obligation, we are struggling with the idea of arming our police at all times for example at the moment.
    I learned to shoot at 12, in a very controlled gun range. The differences here are, single shot rifles are perfectly legal in NZ.
    We have a blanket ban on any form of automatic weapon, and you have to be a gun collector to own a pistol.
    This weapon she had in her hand has one hell of a recoil, and is designed for mass maiming.

    That America cannot understand that, as as society, mass maiming weapons is a bad thing is beyond me.
    The right to arm ones self in America is what is always fallen back on here.
    I just don't see any where in the constitution that one has the right to have a weapon thats capable of mass maiming. Because of course it was unheard and unthought of when these laws were written.

    Ban automatic weapons, you're trampling on no ones rights.

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    giving a 9 year old an uzi is just dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    Society will always have a collective moral obligation, we are struggling with the idea of arming our police at all times for example at the moment.
    I learned to shoot at 12, in a very controlled gun range. The differences here are, single shot rifles are perfectly legal in NZ.
    We have a blanket ban on any form of automatic weapon, and you have to be a gun collector to own a pistol.
    This weapon she had in her hand has one hell of a recoil, and is designed for mass maiming.

    That America cannot understand that, as as society, mass maiming weapons is a bad thing is beyond me.
    The right to arm ones self in America is what is always fallen back on here.
    I just don't see any where in the constitution that one has the right to have a weapon thats capable of mass maiming. Because of course it was unheard and unthought of when these laws were written.

    Ban automatic weapons, you're trampling on no ones rights.
    right but you have to look at the reasoning behind that amendment, it was to fight a tyrannical government. and you can't find a tyrannical government with a pistol or a semi-auto AR because they now have all of that and much more.

    but it should be a ban to let kids handle these weapons, that's what the problem is.

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    Is it? I always thought it was the right to bear arms.
    Not to fight a tyrannical government.

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    you're not the first one to not know the reasons behind it:

    "

    • enabling the people to organize a militia system.
    • participating in law enforcement;
    • deterring tyrannical government;[56]
    • repelling invasion;
    • suppressing insurrection, allegedly including slave revolts;[57][58][59]
    • facilitating a natural right of self-defense."


    if more people knew, they would support this amendment, i think if every country had this law, we wouldn't have half the dictators we do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darky89 View Post
    I wouldn't call that sensible personally.
    Anyway, yes governments pretty much do only look out for themselves and their agendas. But that's the same everywhere and the idea the people are going to rise up, firstly, is very unlikely and secondly, a bad thing. The result would be worse than current governments, it'd be chaos.
    Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this front then. However, I don't feel it's prudent, warranted, wise or just, to have these reactions every time there is an incident involving a gun. These knee-jerk-reactions only contribute to the misunderstanding about what firearms are for and what they bring to society. It's far too easy to place the blame on an inanimate object that has no say in how it's controlled over the person wielding the object. I don't think that's an honest assessment on the issue imo. (not saying you're dishonest or anything.)

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    9-Year-Old Girl Accidently Shoots, Kills Gun Instructor With Uzi

    I find it very odd that you would be proud to say you legislate to stop a tyrannical government.

    A/ most countries with despots have little to no gun control which is what leads to the chaos in the first place.

    B/ Legislation doesn't make a difference in a coup or dictatorship. If the people are willing to overthrow, they will overthrow. We have seen this all over the world.

    C/ a robust transparent and accountable legal system with clear demarkation between state, government and its armed forces will generally nip any tyranny in the but.


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    Last edited by mynd; 08-30-2014 at 11:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I find it very odd that you would be proud to say you legislate to stop a tyrannical government.

    A/ most countries with despots have little to no gun control which is what leads to the chaos in the first place.

    B/ Legislation doesn't make a difference in a coup or dictatorship. If the people are willing to overthrow, they will overthrow. We have seen this all over the world.
    not without international intervention.

    e.g. arab spring is not a product of the locals. it is a product of US, israel, wahabi saudi wealthy families/royalty wanting more resources. without this, these people were living under oppression for decades.

    C/ a robust transparent and accountable legal system with clear demarkation between state, government and its armed forces will generally nip any tyranny in the but.
    good luck with that lol.

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    What instructor would give a 9 year old an Uzi to shoot???

    What mother would let their 9 year old shoot an Uzi???

    What instructor would think a child could handle the recoil???

    I am finding it hard to believe any of this.
    Last edited by Lethal; 08-31-2014 at 01:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mynd View Post
    I find it very odd that you would be proud to say you legislate to stop a tyrannical government.

    A/ most countries with despots have little to no gun control which is what leads to the chaos in the first place.
    Do you have actual statistics pointing to this?

    B/ Legislation doesn't make a difference in a coup or dictatorship. If the people are willing to overthrow, they will overthrow. We have seen this all over the world.
    True. But we're not talking about legislation that somehow benefits the masses. We're talking about legislation that benefits government over its people. At some point, onerous/overt/subversive legislation imposed by government leads to its own destruction because there is a point in which the masses can no longer tolerate tyranny. This is what eventually leads to coups and revolutions.

    C/ a robust transparent and accountable legal system with clear demarkation between state, government and its armed forces will generally nip any tyranny in the but.

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    You can no sooner separate government from its armed forces than you can an individual from their need to consume air. What you can do is to limit the role of a nation's armed forces and stay jealously vigilant on maintaining that role it does have within the provided framework.

    Here, in the United States of America, there is no provision for a standing army with exceptions regarding war and insurrection and only for the defense of the nation. But somehow, we have warped the meaning of war and what even constitutes an exigent situation requiring a standing army. The citizens of this nation have not maintained a jealously vigilant attitude towards the government and we are locked in numerous perpetual and entangling alliances and treaties requiring a massive military and industrial complex to support it.

    Legal systems are all well and good, BUT, they are only as good as the masses' ability and willingness to keep it in check and to keep its government in check. This is the MOST important reason for arming a society. Everything else is a secondary perk that comes with this right.
    Last edited by Ezekiel; 08-30-2014 at 23:57.

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    Ahh yes.... I love when Brits chime in on our laws. The likes of Piers Morgan and company. Notice Americans don't feel the need to chime in and judge UK laws and beliefs? But boy.... the Brits are more than willing to judge USA laws and beliefs at the drop of a hat.

    In world rankings for total crimes per 1000 of it's citizens (total crimes means just that, all crimes such as murder, robbery, burglary, assault, fraud, etc etc),.........the UK has 3 TIMES the amount of crimes per 1000 citizens than the USA. Hardly the ones to be chastising us Americans.

    As for gun laws? They only restrict law abiding citizens. Criminals don't follow our laws to begin with..... that's why they are called criminals. A gun law is just yet another law they won't follow. That's why I support gun ownership for law abiding citizens. I ain't gonna be the fool caught using a knife in a gun fight. I'll be a dead fool.

    It's always the liberals pushing for stricter gun laws, yet the very same liberals plead for leniency and mercy on behalf of defendants who have used or possessed a gun at the time they were committing a crime. I've seen defendants get gun charges reduced or dropped in exchange for pleading guilty to the main charge of robbery more times than I care to remember. It's no wonder that the majority of trial lawyers are Democrats. It's why defendants usually get a slap on the wrist for gun possession in front of liberal judges. If liberals barely want to enforce and punish for existing gun laws, what's the point of making more gun laws that they will barely want to enforce and punish for also?
    Last edited by GreatSpaceKoaster; 08-31-2014 at 10:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Ahh yes.... I love when Brits chime in on our laws. The likes of Piers Morgan and company. Notice Americans don't feel the need to chime in and judge UK laws and beliefs? But boy.... the Brits are more than willing to judge USA laws and beliefs at the drop of a hat.

    In world rankings for total crimes per 1000 of it's citizens (total crimes means just that, all crimes such as murder, robbery, burglary, assault, fraud, etc etc),.........the UK has 3 TIMES the amount of crimes per 1000 citizens than the USA. Hardly the ones to be chastising us Americans.

    As for gun laws? They only restrict law abiding citizens. Criminals don't follow our laws to begin with..... that's why they are called criminals. A gun law is just yet another law they won't follow. That's why I support gun ownership for law abiding citizens. I ain't gonna be the fool caught using a knife in a gun fight. I'll be a dead fool.

    It's always the liberals pushing for stricter gun laws, yet the very same liberals plead for leniency and mercy on behalf of defendants who have used or possessed a gun at the time they were committing a crime. I've seen defendants get gun charges reduced or dropped in exchange for pleading guilty to the main charge of robbery more times than I care to remember. It's no wonder that the majority of trial lawyers are Democrats. It's why defendants usually get a slap on the wrist for gun possession in front of liberal judges. If liberals barely want to enforce and punish for existing gun laws, what's the point of making more gun laws that they will barely want to enforce and punish for also?
    nice bit of conjecture and generalisation there




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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSpaceKoaster View Post
    Ahh yes.... I love when Brits chime in on our laws. The likes of Piers Morgan and company. Notice Americans don't feel the need to chime in and judge UK laws and beliefs? But boy.... the Brits are more than willing to judge USA laws and beliefs at the drop of a hat.
    You might want to leave the forum then. As it's a forum..... for discussion.
    And yeah, obviously no Americans have any opinions on stuff outside of the US. That would be ludicrous.

    Don't Steal. Don't Molest Little Children. Don't Deal Drugs.

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