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  1. #201
    /\ssassin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquanox View Post
    How exactly are you expecting anyone to take your posts seriously when you say Forza looks like a PS2 Game?

    GT HD?... it has fake effects everywhere, reflections, lightning, shadowing... all of them are plain and fake that's why they don't take much processing power and manage to impress unskilled eyes, like yours for example.

    Now, I would bet real money on that Forza 2 will be rated above Motorstorm. I don't know if it's going to look better, but I'm positive its sense of speed will be ages beyond Motorstorm, which only runs at 30Fps being forza at double that framerate.

    All you've seen from the game are early screens btw, so I don't how which magic crystal ball told you how the game is going end up looking like in the end. (June 2007)

    Also, I see you guys praying for the US version of Motorstorm to have multiplayer when at this side of the street, we all know for damn sure that Forza 2 and very other decent racing game will feature multiplayer on Xbox Live.



    First and foremost, Halo was never praised for being the top notch looking game of its era (except for Halo CE) but yet its gameplay swept the floor with most games. That's what boosted it to stratospheric ratings and massive sales and that's exactly what we're expecting from the game. Visuals are only a side plus for Halo.




    How does this work again? Slight improvements for Xbox games and huge overhauls on Ps3 ones? nice, very nice.
    I stopped reading after that but then again I never read your posts.

  2. #202
    Rune_74
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    Wow the defence force switched members again...

    Assasin by not reading Aquanox's posts you are really missing out, but thta snota first for you is it?

    And for the other guy saying I'm acting like a child...I'm just responding to all of your little buddies.

    But seriously, you guys are ignoring the no scaler on the ps3

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rune_74 View Post
    Wow the defence force switched members again...

    Assasin by not reading Aquanox's posts you are really missing out, but thta snota first for you is it?

    And for the other guy saying I'm acting like a child...I'm just responding to all of your little buddies.

    But seriously, you guys are ignoring the no scaler on the ps3
    And they will continue to ignore, because most of them are eating crow.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps3power View Post
    Forza 2 that looks like a PS2 game
    Put down the pipe and step away from the keyboard

    Quote Originally Posted by Fordgasm View Post
    Yes because you can redesign the motherboard overnight it's a very easy process
    An unbiased article and the Sony fans are still on the defensive pathetic really.
    Did you expect anything less... if you did, you have your expectations WAY too high for this forum lol

  5. #205
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    no is just that rune finally has a prominent feature to brag about but seriously do you think this issue protrudes beyond a rather small niche of people with those particular tvs compared to the major issues that affected the 360 at launch?

    there were so many that affected experience it isn't even funny but no lets brag about the minor issue that is currently plaguing the PS3 talk about blind consumers.
    We bow down to thee oh great Don Florentino Perez....

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemo View Post
    no is just that rune finally has a prominent feature to brag about but seriously do you think this issue protrudes beyond a rather small niche of people with those particular tvs compared to the major issues that affected the 360 at launch?

    there were so many that affected experience it isn't even funny but no lets brag about the minor issue that is currently plaguing the PS3 talk about blind consumers.
    again...what does that have to do with the article posted? why even feel the need to tear down the 360 by referring to launch issues? this article was not about launch issues a year ago!!!

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fordgasm View Post
    Yes because you can redesign the motherboard overnight it's a very easy process
    An unbiased article and the Sony fans are still on the defensive pathetic really.
    Where does it say that I m being defensive, I said well played Microsoft, how I m being defensive. God you say something nice then you still get insulted.
    Diablo 3 - DOTA 2 - Deus EX 3 - Half Life: Episode 3

  8. #208
    Rune_74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemo View Post
    no is just that rune finally has a prominent feature to brag about but seriously do you think this issue protrudes beyond a rather small niche of people with those particular tvs compared to the major issues that affected the 360 at launch?

    there were so many that affected experience it isn't even funny but no lets brag about the minor issue that is currently plaguing the PS3 talk about blind consumers.
    Um...I was talking about now not back t hen and...its not a minor issue that can just be patched on the fly...hehehe what you think sony will mail you a chip and say unscrew this and click this on.

    I wonder if they will ever have any other hardware addons like that?

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquanox View Post
    GT HD?... it has fake effects everywhere, reflections, lightning, shadowing... all of them are plain and fake that's why they don't take much processing power and manage to impress unskilled eyes, like yours for example.
    I don't understand what you mean by "fake" effects.

  10. #210
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    If these 'fake effects' make the most photorealisic game that I've ever seen then I want 'fake effects' in all my games.

    Funnyt thing is, if you asked him to list and explain each 'fake effect', he wouldn't be able to do it. How do you 'fake' an effect when it comes to graphics rendering?



  11. #211
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    Ummm... Read a little more carefully next time. I'm not saaying Forza looks like a PS2. But the jump in quality from the best we've seen in Forza 2 and GT HD is like comparing a PS2 game to a PS3 game.

    And I can see you've never actually seen or played GT HD. Kind of like you hadn't ever owned a 360 up until a month ago and have been making blind statements:

    Sorry for posting this yet again folks, but I guess my eyes just aren't trained like Aquanox's are. Sorry for my newbie eyes. I just am really struggling here. Sorry guys!



    If you want some of my first hand impressions even on a crappy standard def TV, you can see some of my screens here:

    http://www.ps3power.com/images/storage/gthd.jpg

    As for Motorstorm, it's confirmed Online for the US version. Again, do us a favor and do some research before you make yourself look silly. And yeah. Actually the reflections on the cars are of the environments in GT HD.

    Looking forward to seeing the final screens of Forza. And this isn't even GT 5 yet. When you can show me screens that look even close to this, I'll be quiet. Oh wait. These screens look fake! Sorry. My untrained eyes just aren't used to this yet!

    Come on guy. I can easily admit that Gears of War has way better graphics than Resistance. Most of the ports are better on the 360 thus far. Live is WAYYY better than PSN. Please don't put your blinders on so tight that your eyes are crossed. It really makes you look silly.

    Brian







    Quote Originally Posted by Aquanox View Post
    How exactly are you expecting anyone to take your posts seriously when you say Forza looks like a PS2 Game?

    GT HD?... it has fake effects everywhere, reflections, lightning, shadowing... all of them are plain and fake that's why they don't take much processing power and manage to impress unskilled eyes, like yours for example.

    Now, I would bet real money on that Forza 2 will be rated above Motorstorm. I don't know if it's going to look better, but I'm positive its sense of speed will be ages beyond Motorstorm, which only runs at 30Fps being forza at double that framerate.

    All you've seen from the game are early screens btw, so I don't how which magic crystal ball told you how the game is going end up looking like in the end. (June 2007)

    Also, I see you guys praying for the US version of Motorstorm to have multiplayer when at this side of the street, we all know for damn sure that Forza 2 and very other decent racing game will feature multiplayer on Xbox Live.



    First and foremost, Halo was never praised for being the top notch looking game of its era (except for Halo CE) but yet its gameplay swept the floor with most games. That's what boosted it to stratospheric ratings and massive sales and that's exactly what we're expecting from the game. Visuals are only a side plus for Halo.




    How does this work again? Slight improvements for Xbox games and huge overhauls on Ps3 ones? nice, very nice.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistagamer View Post
    again...what does that have to do with the article posted? why even feel the need to tear down the 360 by referring to launch issues? this article was not about launch issues a year ago!!!
    isn't the scaler crap a launch issue for the PS3? again how many of the 360 issues were attended to after launch my point is 360 fans are approaching this as if it is set in stone.
    We bow down to thee oh great Don Florentino Perez....

  13. #213
    Rune_74
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    those pics the backgrond is all blurred. so how can we see anything?

  14. #214
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    Sorry, but that comparison is just embarrasing . And Forza 2 is one of the games I'm looking forward to as well. Maybe my eyes need 'training'. How do I go about doing such a thing aquanox? Ah, never mind, found 'em:



    those pics the backgrond is all blurred. so how can we see anything?
    Who give a damn when the game looks so good? PGR3 has lots of motion blur and it looks great, you don't see me complaining.



  15. #215
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    don't even compare GTHD and Forza Motorsport because is embarrassing to the non-wearing goggles gamers.
    We bow down to thee oh great Don Florentino Perez....

  16. #216
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    What's with you and backgrounds? Look at the cars for crying out loud. LOL!

    Here are the backgrounds of this GT 5 filler game:



    3D moving crouds, with 3D mountains, flags waving realistically. Will look a lot better though in GT 5 I'm sure. Looking forward to the final Forza screens. It'll be fun to train my eyes to be as good as Aquanox's eyes.

    Brian


    Quote Originally Posted by Rune_74 View Post
    those pics the backgrond is all blurred. so how can we see anything?

  17. #217
    Rune_74
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    Ok...so lets get this straight we left the issue of the scaler completely and the whole point of this thread to go off on something else since you could not argue about teh scaler?

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_H_G View Post
    Who give a damn when the game looks so good? PGR3 has lots of motion blur and it looks great, you don't see me complaining.
    I agree, PGR3 is still looking great, motion blur this motion blur that.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rune_74 View Post
    Ok...so lets get this straight we left the issue of the scaler completely and the whole point of this thread to go off on something else since you could not argue about teh scaler?
    Basically, that's what they always do.
    "We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?"
    --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment

  20. #220
    Rune_74
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    Its kind of embarassing to argue with them when they do that...its like denial

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemo View Post
    isn't the scaler crap a launch issue for the PS3? again how many of the 360 issues were attended to after launch my point is 360 fans are approaching this as if it is set in stone.
    See that's exactly what i'm talking about. The only reason why the scaler was brought up was because it was widely assumed and overwhelmingly heralded by 360 detractors when the announcement of 1080p for the 360 came down that it was merely some magical after-the-fact software "trick" by which it was done.

    We now have confirmation that it was in fact inside the machine and apart of the original hardware all along.

    However the irony is that while it was degraded by the non 360 fan as a software trick, it now seems as though the ps3 is the one that will either have to do a hardware revision or use a software trick to cure it's own scaling issue.

    It's just that those who really have no interest in the 360 other than to degrade it at every possible chance only read what they wanted to read and now you have a thread that had been completely derailed, stemming from irrelevant comments and attacks that weren't needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ps3power View Post
    Ummm... Read a little more carefully next time. I'm not saaying Forza looks like a PS2. But the jump in quality from the best we've seen in Forza 2 and GT HD is like comparing a PS2 game to a PS3 game.
    p.s. you were making comparison between concept images and early work-in-progress images???? say you didn't just do that. and if you must...create another thread for such a comparison.

  22. #222
    Rune_74
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    thank you mistagamer plus rep for you for typing it ina much better way then I did

  23. #223
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    This article is far from unbiased. The very setup of the whole situation with Microsoft choosing the timing and games for comparison is bias. Why is Microsoft so hasty to compare its flagship second generation game with Playstation 3's flagship launch game? Why didn't they compare launch game vs launch game? Why don't they wait a year or two for at least one significant stride in effort to be accomplished for the Playstation 3.

    Some people are deceived into thinking that every generation games look better by a certain amount which would mean Playstation 3 will *never* catch up to the Xbox360 since the developers are always a generation behind. Sorry, doesn't work like that. The hardware on both is very different, and the later the generation, the smaller the improvement. Reading speculation that says PS3 will always be behind because of the way games look like now is utter crap. I might expect that from a guy with shoddy technical background, but from Arstechnica, it screams bias.

    "This hardware war may come down to the whether or not consumers think having Blu-ray is worth the extra cost, or the question of people being bothered by the lack of the hardware scaler."
    This hardware war will come down to which one gets the games people want to play. There have been a handful of exclusives that Playstation has "lost", but their software backing is still very strong. Most of the Playstation 2 developers are still there and by the time they are ready to leave the PS2 behind, it will be the end of 2007, and that’s when they'll be looking at the PS3 vs Xbox360. So what will things look like in a year from now when game developers are really looking at the next generation consoles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquanox View Post
    How exactly are you expecting anyone to take your posts seriously when you say Forza looks like a PS2 Game?
    You could use your sharp comprehension ability to realize that he was making a bloated statement to get across the point that Forza 2 doesn't look up to next generation gaming standards. I agree with him. For Forza 2 is just a game with early screenshots right? It's not like it's the only thing Xbox360 has going for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquanox View Post
    GT HD?... it has fake effects everywhere, reflections, lightning, shadowing... all of them are plain and fake that's why they don't take much processing power and manage to impress unskilled eyes, like yours for example.
    Fake effects? You mean like…when the rain isn't actually in the 3D environment but rather it's just a shader effect that blurs the screen on edges on objects and overlays raindrops on the entire screen falling at random? Unfortunately, to make that effect "real" you would need to put it on the CPU side of things so the CPU is handling each rain drop and calculating collisions every frame. That kind of processor sounds like one that would have a lot of floating point processing power. That kind of processor would also have to be able to do a lot of parallel operations through SIMD processing and parallel cores. Sounds like something the Cell is a monster at...

    You haven't even laid eyes on this game and such is obvious, unless you are lying through your rotten teeth(or fingers I should say). The effects of GT:HD are outstanding. The reflections are absolutely real and I have paid close attention to it. When you are in front of mountain, that is the reflection you see on the back car(assuming the camera is back there too) and it moves as it should when your car turns. The lighting is *real* as well. In the tunnel, the shadows reflect accurately on the car and go through the windshield and show up realistically on the interior of the car as well. From the tunnel, you can also see the Sun and it has an excellent bloom lighting effect that could probably be confused for being HDR. All this is done also with an incredible draw distance as well meaning you can see parts of the track that are much further ahead of where you are driving. That's very unlike another racer I played on Xbox360 semi-recently where the streets were conveniently confined with buildings on all sides capping the draw distance.

    You have some balls to charge GT:HD with using fake effects. You picked the game that is most well known for following through with realism and simulation, and you picked a game on the console which is most able to simulate those effects through realistic modeling.

    Unskilled eye you say? Your eye is meant to be tricked. It takes the power of the brain to detect those tricks through knowledge of what's is going on to achieve the trick. Last time I checked, you had no such knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rune_74 View Post
    But seriously, you guys are ignoring the no scaler on the ps3
    It's not being ignored. It's an issue and no one is denying it. The question is what is the scale of that issue? Unfortunately, if you Xbox360 supporters are trying to make a point to say which console is better suited this generation - being in the future - the argument doesn't hold much weight when the scaling issue only affects old HDTVs. Anyone stuck with a TV like that is probably being screwed by more than their PS3 and I'd bet they have issues with other new HD equipment as well.

    And if you want to talk of the benefits of free upscaling, I'd like to point you to the "image stretch" feature any (reasonable) HDTV has. You can upscale your 480i signal to display at the full resolution of your TV! Isn't that neat trick? Too bad you don't actually see any more detail though…

    -Sig by Svetlana

  24. #224
    Rune_74
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    We'll see with forza, but we will never see with the upscaling in the ps3.

  25. #225
    BudFox
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    I agree it is an issue that will go away over time, without sony actually fixing it. People will get used to it, shut up about it, buy a new t.v. or deal with it.

    Someone on page 5 said the ps3 is scaling images down to 480P, that's not true, it's just the next available resolution that both the game and the t.v. support. Games can be coded to support 1080i, it's just something developers would rather not do for various technical reasons...they can't just include a 1080i class and call it good with no effort.

    I would prefer to see sony not fix it with a software/SPE scaling fix. It is a fairly small user base that has this issue, and that user base will only get smaller. Why take any performance away from a console for everyone, when only maybe 5%, 10%(I don't know how many...surely not more than 10%) have to play some games at a lower resolution.

    They can't have some people running a software patch that takes SPE cycles, and some people not running it. So if they were to do something about it, everyone would take the hit...then they got a 90% pissed off user base.

    I don't know, I say they just let it go. It was a mistake though.

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