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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedos View Post
    Here's your answer: Jesus was not omnipresent and omnipotent when he was down here on earth in a human body. He humbled himself and became as one of us. But even God the Father testified to who he was, as can be seen here: 'And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo, a voice from heaven, saying, 'This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.' Matthew 3:16-17. Not to mention that Jesus himself claimed oneness with the Father: I and My Father are one." (John 10:30) And, might I add, God gave hints in the Old Testament concerning the nature of himself as a whole, such as here: 'And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil': Genesis 3:22. And here as well: 'And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language, and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech:' Genesis 11: 5-7.
    Fedos, you can't just use one verse to prove your point you have to
    give me the whole context the one you talked about John (10:30) "I and my father are one"

    read before that verse...
    [reveal]
    "And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."
    John 10:23-30

    Neither the Christ Jesus himself nor any of his disciples (including John),
    ever wrote or claimed that Jesus was
    "the begotten son" or "the only
    begotten son"
    of the Father.
    [/reveal]



  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefox View Post
    Fedos, you can't just use one verse to prove your point you have to
    give me the whole context the one you talked about John (10:30) "I and my father are one"

    read before that verse...
    "And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."
    John 10:23-30

    “ And she (Mary) who guarded her chastity, so We breathed into her of Our Spirit and made her and her son a sign for the nations. „
    Firefox please just give up with Fedos. It is pointless, read the PM I sent and maybe you will know why. I just think you should stay to your convictions and don't mess around with what Fedos is trying to throw at you.

  3. #303
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    What do you mean give up with Fedos? I don't think I am flaming him or trying to convert him...only trying to show thing that islam is as human as any other religion and that he should stop saying islam is from satan, and look at the SIMILARITES between religions rather than differences.

    When he says my religion is from "satan" I have a duty to show him that he should not look at ANY religion as demonizing.

    FEDOS...this is for you:
    "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

    John 3:15

  4. #304
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    Fedos, you can't just use one verse to prove your point you have to
    give me the whole context the one you talked about John (10:30) "I and my father are one"

    read before that verse...
    From Matthew 16: 13-17: 'When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Phillip-pl, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: , Elias; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto them, blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


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  5. #305
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    hypocrite to the max, Iran can't research nuclear, but Israel can bombed Iran with nuclear.

  6. #306
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    Omg...you miss my view...I respect your views...you believe he is the begotten son...but I believe he is referred as a son as god has referred to moses, adam etc...as a son (not begotten). So there is no point arguing.

    FEDOS...this is for you:
    "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

    John 3:15

    So Fedos...you really want to keep on thinking about hate and demonizing other people and their
    values and beliefs after that quote above?...you said my religion was from satan BUT did I get all angry and flame you? NO, because as with the Bible, Torah, and Quran I practice mercy, and love not hate.

  7. #307
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    But doesn't the Quran say that Allah doesn't have any sons because he doesn't have a consort or something? So why would Jesus refer to God as his Father if Allah doesn't have any sons?


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  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by THEREALNEXTGEN View Post
    Actually, if there was a full out war between the U.S. and Iran, the U.S. would win with a little more ease than you think. The U.S. military has been designed around mass armor and overwhelming firepower with constant aerial support. Ever seen what fire superiority of a group of marines can do to a large oppositional force. Much like a blizkrieg, if we met on open ground and don't fight guerrilla wars or urban wars then it would be a cake walk.
    You can't decide to "not" go to guerilla war. Iran has at least 9 million paramilitaries, armed and with military training.

    I don't think if Iran moved into Iraq right now they would do to well.
    At this moment in time its possible for Iran to move to IraQ, meet with insurgents in an uprising and encircle the US army.

    Overwhelming aerial firepower would wipe them out as the US tank divisions with other armored brigades amassed for a charge eastward across the desert.
    Iran has concluded a billion dollar contract purchasing state of the air anti-air hardware from the Russians. Its not going to be a cake-walk like Iraq.

    By the way, at Stalingrad it was the German 8th army, they didn't really get surrounded. Their supply lines were cut off because they were too long, due to the winter and they basically froze and starved to death as the Russians slowly took back the Volga and the city.
    First of all, it was the 6th army. Second of all, they were surrounded and defeated. They took the Russians for granted, the Russians capitilized and surrounded them. America is taking Iran for granted, and what it is capable of doing.


    I just think overall you underestimate the strength and coordination that the U.S. military can throw together when battles break out and even when it is full out war.
    And i think you're over-estimating. The US military is bogged down in two fronts, and struggling. Those two fronts happen to be the weakest of the three, so how are they supposed to overwhelm the biggest dog in the Middle East if they're struggling with corpses like Iraq?

    Guess who's saved everyone's butts for the past 100 years and has been militarily successful, the U.S. military.
    Sorry, but Germany was practically defeated when the US arrived in WWII. Vietnam was a massive failure, Iraq 90-91 was moderate, and Iraq '03 was pretty much nothing.



    Quote Originally Posted by DINAMO788 View Post
    roadkill may i see your credentials as well in US and iranian military?
    Credentials?

    iran does not have anything and like realnextgen said, we are so tactically and technologically superior we would come out on top for sure. the only problem is they will probably resort of cowardice tactics like once again implimenting their civilians as a human shield
    This is where ignorance comes into play. First of all, since when did technological superiority win wars alone? The US was technically superior in Vietnam yet lost.

    Second of all, the notion that Iran is technically redundant is another misconception. Billion dollar deals have been signed in military defense with Russia.

    The Tor-M1 anti-aircraft systems.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_Missile_System

    The SS-N-22 'Sunburn', capable of obliterating the current fleet placed in the Persian Gulf. (Suspiciously placed, some say Bush is attempting to provoke another 9/11/Pearl Harbour to win support).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunburn_missile

    To name just two...


    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post


    you must be joking...
    It won't be a walk over like Iraq (the war part, not the reconstruction)
    But the USA will decisively beat Iran if it comes to that.
    The notion of the USA 'decisively' defeating Iran is naivety. A draft will be required, the economy will suffer and unthinkable numbers will die. Think the british empire coming through WWII.

    I mean lets be real, in Iraq we aren't even using all of our toys (jets, tanks, drones, and all the other stuff we don't even know about)
    Its not about "toys and jets", if that was the case Vietnam would have been over before it started. "Toys and jets" didn't save the Germans in WWII, and it didn't save america in Vietnam.

    Man power aside, we are far more technologically advanced than Iran. We'd defeat their military hands down... cleaning up after the war... well thats a different story.
    You'd defeat Iran, yes, if everything was thrown at them, or more accurately, everyone. Thats not the discussion here, its this train of naive thought that the US could defeat Iran easily using regular army, while the main populace watches from home and afterwards, the Country is in the same state as it was before it entered.

    If, or when you go to war with Iran, expect the military, economy, population, status as a superpower and National morality to all take a collective kick in the nuts.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedos View Post
    From Matthew 16: 13-17: 'When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Phillip-pl, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: , Elias; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto them, blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
    Just show me a verse where it says he is the ONLY begotten son of god...if
    you really think my values are evil...because I practice all your values except the trinity....one difference and you think my religion is evil and from satan...but did I flame you for it...no.

    So please I and always responding to you..not to convince you of my beliefs but to ACCEPT other peoples beliefs and not to demonize other people's values...we are all humans...

    I respect your values and I wish that you do not demonize islam, catholics, or ANYONE who does not share your beliefs...I have my beliefs you have yours...


    I pray that god guides you in life and you go to paradise.

  10. #310
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    FEDOS...this is for you:
    "
    Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

    John 3:15

    So Fedos...you really want to keep on thinking about hate and demonizing other people and their
    values and beliefs after that quote above?...you said my religion was from satan BUT did I get all angry and flame you? NO, because as with the Bible, Torah, and Quran I practice mercy, and love not hate.



    I haven't said anything that could be construed as hateful. All I was doing was showing from a Christian perspective why I cannot accept what Islam teaches, because it basically contradicts what was revelead in the Old Testament and what was fulfilled in the New.


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    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill View Post
    You can't decide to "not" go to guerilla war. Iran has at least 9 million paramilitaries, armed and with military training.



    At this moment in time its possible for Iran to move to IraQ, meet with insurgents in an uprising and encircle the US army.



    Iran has concluded a billion dollar contract purchasing state of the air anti-air hardware from the Russians. Its not going to be a cake-walk like Iraq.



    First of all, it was the 6th army. Second of all, they were surrounded and defeated. They took the Russians for granted, the Russians capitilized and surrounded them. America is taking Iran for granted, and what it is capable of doing.




    And i think you're over-estimating. The US military is bogged down in two fronts, and struggling. Those two fronts happen to be the weakest of the three, so how are they supposed to overwhelm the biggest dog in the Middle East if they're struggling with corpses like Iraq?



    Sorry, but Germany was practically defeated when the US arrived in WWII. Vietnam was a massive failure, Iraq 90-91 was moderate, and Iraq '03 was pretty much nothing.





    Credentials?



    This is where ignorance comes into play. First of all, since when did technological superiority win wars alone? The US was technically superior in Vietnam yet lost.

    Second of all, the notion that Iran is technically redundant is another misconception. Billion dollar deals have been signed in military defense with Russia.

    The Tor-M1 anti-aircraft systems.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_Missile_System

    The SS-N-22 'Sunburn', capable of obliterating the current fleet placed in the Persian Gulf. (Suspiciously placed, some say Bush is attempting to provoke another 9/11/Pearl Harbour to win support).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunburn_missile

    To name just two...




    The notion of the USA 'decisively' defeating Iran is naivety. A draft will be required, the economy will suffer and unthinkable numbers will die. Think the british empire coming through WWII.



    Its not about "toys and jets", if that was the case Vietnam would have been over before it started. "Toys and jets" didn't save the Germans in WWII, and it didn't save america in Vietnam.



    You'd defeat Iran, yes, if everything was thrown at them, or more accurately, everyone. Thats not the discussion here, its this train of naive thought that the US could defeat Iran easily using regular army, while the main populace watches from home and afterwards, the Country is in the same state as it was before it entered.

    If, or when you go to war with Iran, expect the military, economy, population, status as a superpower and National morality to all take a collective kick in the nuts.
    I just believe you are very wrong and have no background or knowledge of the U.S. military and tactics employed. We can use overwhelming air power when ever because our technology is around 40 years beyond our enemies. Ever heard of the black project "Aurora". The U.S. has been militarily successful everywhere, just not politically successful. Vietnam, 50,000 U.S. casualties, Viet Cong 1 to 2 million. The U.S. is what saved everyone in WWII so stop trying to be smart and make stupid remarks.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedos View Post



    I haven't said anything that could be construed as hateful. All I was doing was showing from a Christian perspective why I cannot accept what Islam teaches, because it basically contradicts what was revelead in the Old Testament and what was fulfilled in the New.
    But you did agree with what DC Writer said about satan making islam...
    And I was saying that yes I have read the Bible to as much as you and I
    just believe that he was not the begotten son but as God referred to all PROPHETS.

    The term “son of God” is used in two main ways in the Old Testament. Neither way denotes any physical relation to God. Rather, the references deal with those who are under divine obedience to the call of God. It is used of Israel as a nation through the Exodus. Hosea 11:1 says, “When Israel was a youth I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son.”1 It is also used in reference to angels. Job 1:6 says, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.” Also, in Job 38:7 it says, "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" These are in reference to angels who are created beings and in no way implies literal dependency from God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by THEREALNEXTGEN View Post
    I just believe you are very wrong and have no background or knowledge of the U.S. military and tactics employed. We can use overwhelming air power when ever because our technology is around 40 years beyond our enemies.
    Your airforce is not 40 years beyond Irans anti air systems.

    Ever heard of the black project "Aurora". The U.S. has been militarily successful everywhere, just not politically successful. Vietnam, 50,000 U.S. casualties, Viet Cong 1 to 2 million.
    Vietnam is wholly regarded as an all-round military failure. Thats why success in the Persian Gulf was so important in 91.

    The U.S. is what saved everyone in WWII so stop trying to be smart and make stupid remarks.
    Saved everyone from what? If you're talking about the Axis, Russia gets my credit for defeating Hitler. Hitlers war ended when he retreated from Stalin. I'm not trying to be smart, i'm stating my opinions.

    Hitler in some ways is similar to Bush. Hitler thought he could shift divisions around, blame others and dismiss generals to cheat failure. Bush equally thinks problems can be solved by patching them. I.e., dismissing generals, blaming others or sending 21,000 more troops to Iraq. Once they arrive, the insurgents will just move around out of their way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefox View Post
    But you did agree with what DC Writer said about satan making islam...
    And I was saying that yes I have read the Bible to as much as you and I
    just believe that he was not the begotten son but as God referred to all PROPHETS.
    Well, here is what Thomas said after the crucifixion:

    John 20: 24-28 'But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Did-y-mus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then he saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

    May I also add that I have experiences to go along with my belief that Jesus is the Son of God as well as the people I know to be Christians. I don't just go along with what I've been told.


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    I am a European that converted to Islam.... this is offending.... Dont judge people by there faith, its like saying chinese are bad drivers, not all of them are. Kudos to firefox for sticking up for the right choice...

    I am Muslim, but I wouldnt kill a fly, let alone a human [ Palastein conflict]..

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    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill View Post
    You can't decide to "not" go to guerilla war. Iran has at least 9 million paramilitaries, armed and with military training.



    At this moment in time its possible for Iran to move to IraQ, meet with insurgents in an uprising and encircle the US army.



    Iran has concluded a billion dollar contract purchasing state of the air anti-air hardware from the Russians. Its not going to be a cake-walk like Iraq.



    First of all, it was the 6th army. Second of all, they were surrounded and defeated. They took the Russians for granted, the Russians capitilized and surrounded them. America is taking Iran for granted, and what it is capable of doing.




    And i think you're over-estimating. The US military is bogged down in two fronts, and struggling. Those two fronts happen to be the weakest of the three, so how are they supposed to overwhelm the biggest dog in the Middle East if they're struggling with corpses like Iraq?



    Sorry, but Germany was practically defeated when the US arrived in WWII. Vietnam was a massive failure, Iraq 90-91 was moderate, and Iraq '03 was pretty much nothing.





    Credentials?



    This is where ignorance comes into play. First of all, since when did technological superiority win wars alone? The US was technically superior in Vietnam yet lost.

    Second of all, the notion that Iran is technically redundant is another misconception. Billion dollar deals have been signed in military defense with Russia.

    The Tor-M1 anti-aircraft systems.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_Missile_System

    The SS-N-22 'Sunburn', capable of obliterating the current fleet placed in the Persian Gulf. (Suspiciously placed, some say Bush is attempting to provoke another 9/11/Pearl Harbour to win support).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunburn_missile

    To name just two...




    The notion of the USA 'decisively' defeating Iran is naivety. A draft will be required, the economy will suffer and unthinkable numbers will die. Think the british empire coming through WWII.



    Its not about "toys and jets", if that was the case Vietnam would have been over before it started. "Toys and jets" didn't save the Germans in WWII, and it didn't save america in Vietnam.



    You'd defeat Iran, yes, if everything was thrown at them, or more accurately, everyone. Thats not the discussion here, its this train of naive thought that the US could defeat Iran easily using regular army, while the main populace watches from home and afterwards, the Country is in the same state as it was before it entered.

    If, or when you go to war with Iran, expect the military, economy, population, status as a superpower and National morality to all take a collective kick in the nuts.
    Germany was nowhere near defeat when the US entered the war. Britain was. Where Germany messed up is when they attacked Russia and opend up another front.

    You act like we just line people up and throw them into the fire. I can assure you that if a war were to break out with Iran, those "toys and jets" that you dismiss so quickly would pound away at their military resources for a solid month until they were crippled.

    Vietnam was lost b/c politics got in the way of military strategy. The US military was on a leash.

    The Gulf War was a "moderate" victory? It was an ass whoopin. Not sure hwo you missed it...

    I agree with you that Iran is no joke. But come on... Don't forget that we will probably have Isarali support, and their military is no joke either.

    As for the draft, maybe... but very unlikely. Things would have to be going pretty bad for that to happen. You act like are military has been decimated from iraq... it hasn't been. It's busy right now, but not decimated.

    Let's not pretend like we are obligated to stay in Iraq if a war breaks out with Iran. We're a heart beat away from just blowing outta there tomorrow

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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    Germany was nowhere near defeat when the US entered the war. Britain was. Where Germany messed up is when they attacked Russia and opend up another front.
    Germany was on the run to nowhere in 1943. Outnumbered and outpowered. After the defeat in Russia, it was only a matter of time.

    You act like we just line people up and throw them into the fire.
    I don't know what this is supposed to mean, but my only point here is that those who think the USA can take Iran "with ease" are sorely mistaken.

    I can assure you that if a war were to break out with Iran, those "toys and jets" that you dismiss so quickly would pound away at their military resources for a solid month until they were crippled.
    Indeed, but a land invasion is something the US can't afford.

    Vietnam was lost b/c politics got in the way of military strategy. The US military was on a leash.
    And Bush admins politics and strategy are arguably even worse.

    The Gulf War was a "moderate" victory? It was an ass whoopin. Not sure hwo you missed it...
    Moderate in the sense that the USA wasn't taking on an army of any real power. Not to mention an army having just suffered a decade of war.

    I agree with you that Iran is no joke. But come on... Don't forget that we will probably have Isarali support, and their military is no joke either.
    Lebanon last year was a blunder for the Israeli army. The Israelis are also in a small country that is more or less in the worst possible position. In the even that Iran is attacked, its pretty much a given that Israeli nuclear reactors turn into atomic bullseyes.

    As for the draft, maybe... but very unlikely. Things would have to be going pretty bad for that to happen. You act like are military has been decimated from iraq... it hasn't been. It's busy right now, but not decimated.
    We're not just talking about Iraq, don't forget Afghanistan. Iraq is also a dangerous position for the US army. If Iran so decides, they can cut off all fuel the entire US army in Iraq needs and land 150,000 soldiers in serious, serious trouble. Bush is either too stupid or doesn't care to realise this.


    Don't forget Iran stands united. Their people will have no quarrell with each other about what they're going to do if attacked. They'll fight and fight together. The terrain is also more difficult than Iraq.

    The most worrying thing for all of us should be what Russia or especially China decides to do if their buddies get attacked. China has been quietly expanding their military for some time now.

  18. #318
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    Fedos, what about Hebrews 5:7-8?? Isn't that contradictory to the idea
    of cruxifiction?

    And "son of god" when you look at the hebrew in the bible is the same meaning as "servant of god"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God

    and also what about Isaiah 43:10

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...saiah+43:10-11

  19. #319
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    The Iraqi army in 90-91 was the 3rd (4th?) largest army in the world. And I will remind you that it was strong enough to force a stalemate with Iran in the 80s.

    Say what you want to about Iraq now, the fact of the matter is, the US walked through the Iraqi army like it was nothing in 19 days. The insurgency while strong has been largely put down, and unfortuneately now we have a civil war that imo is beyond anyones control but the Iraqis. but I do agree with you.... bush sucks and he is an idiot.

    As for the land invasion. Nobody can afford it nowadays, save for China. Thats not how wars are fought in the modern era. You don't just invade
    WWI and the invention of the machine gun ended the days of just running at your enemy.

    Israel- yes they stand to lose the most if the war ignites. But they will have our support and possibly some others as well... maybe Britain... and France... HAHAHA... right

    Iran has nothing to stop the US from having total air superiority. They just don't. And as for oil, I don't beleive we get any oil from iran. I'll have to double check that... but I'm pretty sure we don't.

    In fact... I am almost positive that Iran gives absolutely nothing to aid the US

    In the end it behooves everyone not to go to war with Iran anytime soon... from what i hear the Iranian people aren't to pleased with the direction their government is taking them (Americans can relate) and they might demand change.

    but if we do... well one can guarantee that they won't be getting a nuke for quite some time.

    sorry i thoughts became scattered toward the end of this post. Football is about to start

    By Theft
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  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefox View Post
    Fedos, what about Hebrews 5:7-8?? Isn't that contradictory to the idea
    of cruxifiction?

    And "son of god" when you look at the hebrew in the bible is the same meaning as "servant of god"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God
    That section of Hebrews that you referenced I believe was talking about how Jesus asked the cup of the crucifixion to pass from him, because he had never been seperated from the Father from eternity passed, and that is what happened on the cross, he was seperated. The passage that you referenced also goes on to state this in the next verse: Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him' And the only way you can begin to obey Jesus is if you have prayed the sinners prayer and have God living inside of you, enabling you to live like he would want you to live in every moral circumstance that arises in your life. And just going off what I bolded from what you yourself referenced, if that is the case what is the need for any other scriptures to be sent down from God if Jesus accomplished it all of his own self?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefox View Post
    If Jesus and the Father are one then that verse would include Jesus as well, meaning, Jesus existed previously in heaven from eternity passed he just took on human flesh at an appointed time to die for our sins.


    Currently playing? Skyrim (360). White Knight Chronicles (PS3). Majoras Mask (Wii). Final Fanasy VII (PS2). Just completed? Final Fantasy VI.

  21. #321
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    I learned this in Sunday school back in the day

    John 3 vs 16-19 --- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    .........

    Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus answering his question on how can a man be born again and how a man can enter into heaven. Read the the whole chapter ( St. John 3 ) for clarification. Maybe Fedos could back that up for me also.
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  22. #322
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    hey can anyone explain to my why ost of this thread is revolving around religion. i dont get it. nothing in the topic deals with religion so...get OFF OF IT!

  23. #323
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    So much for the element of surprise.

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by DINAMO788 View Post
    hey can anyone explain to my why ost of this thread is revolving around religion. i dont get it. nothing in the topic deals with religion so...get OFF OF IT!
    If you don't understand it, and don't care to, why not just ignore us? whats stopping you from carrying on YOUR conversation? It's not like we're talking over your voice or anybody else's.

    Do your thing and we'll do ours... deal?
    PSN ID - DweetRight


  25. #325
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    the thing is your dominating this thread with an off topic discussion. thatis my issue as i would like to discuss and read discussion about the topic at hand. i would recommend for you guys to make your own thread if you want to talk about religion but.....most of the ones we've had have been flame wars so im not sure how another one will turn out.

    nothing against the discussion, just against the dicussion in a thread where its not the main topic


    sorry for sounding like an ******* i just dont feel/care that religion should be considered in this topic becuase its based on belief so nothing can be proven or solved.

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