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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefein View Post

    HEY, where were you people when broadcast TV was on 720p? Where's the $#@!ing about that? Maybe Sony has to buy all the major networks too so you can make a mountain out of an anthill over 720p? Give it a break! Take my advice... SELL YOUR 1080i/480p TV AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! Don't hesitate! Sell it while some other sucker will buy it and take that money to put it towards a TV thats worth a damn!
    Probably saying "I'm jolly glad this TV Set Top box has a scaler for 1080i in!". As many do.

  2. #227
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    It is undeniably a shame that the PS3 has no scaler. I feel for the guys and gals with older HDTV's that don't support 720p, I really do, but it's not the end of the world.

    A friend of mine plays his 360 in 480p on a 30" CRT "HDTV", I dont know if it supports 1080i or not, but it still looks pretty f**kin good to me. The difference between just 480i and 480p is pretty incredible. Progressive scan is more important than having alot of pixels from what I've seen.

    I saw an article that showed that the subjective resolution of 1080i is barely half that because of overlapping or something. I bet if you guys that are affected by this issue could play your PS3 in 1080i, you would rather play in 480p anyway because it probably looks just as good, or possibly only very slightly worse. Interlacing sucks balls.

    I'm not trying to play the issue down. Sony should have thought better about this, but if I was affected I wouldnt be worrying too much about it. I have bigger problems in that the PS3 aint even ****in' out here yet. Come on March!!

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    could not have said it better myself.
    bold-ed the parts that made me applaud.

    I know some of you feel screwed, but there is a risk to being an early adopter. Sell you tv's on ebay, get SOMETHING for it, and invest in a new TV.

    Lefein's point on the 720p TV broadcast point is right on. Where is the outrage about that?

    And if this was the huge issue that some of you are trying to make it out to be, it would be all over the news, Sony would HAVE to have a recall. There is absolutely no backlash anywhere except for from 360 fans and early adopters. Sony is not stupid. They have a whole room filled with nerds who have gone over the numbers over and over again... and at this point, it seems like the nerds have concluded that the number of people effected by this is insignificant.

    You can always hope, but I'd start looking for a new TV.
    Like others have said, there was no out rage needed, because every other HD device has a scaler built-in, and a 720p signal unconverted to 1080i works remarkably well, so not outrage needed.

    As for early adopters I guess you are right, I guess I should not have gotten that Sony TV, and guess I should not have gotten that Sony PS3. I know one thing I will not get another sony product unless sony changes it philosophy of customer support. My friend who are kind of early adopters are just going to wait on the PS3 to see if they resolve a lot of these small issues before they invest their $600, this could be the reason so many PS3 are sitting on store shelves and not homes. I wouldn’t have gotten one if I knew I would not be able to play game at 1080i on my HDTV, but it is too late for that so I will just not buy any game not supporting 1080i.

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    Too bad the PS3 didn't come w/ a strap so that I could "accidently" fling it into the TV to force Sony to recall and add a scaler

    After playing w/ the video settings a bit, Resistance still looks light years better w/ components than the composites so I guess I'll live. GTHD looks incredible at 1080i so hopefully more of the games out there will be coming out w/ 1080i support as well. Until Sony fixes this problem, I'll just have to pick and choose my games carefully.

    (I KNEW I should have "accidently" thrown my wiimote into my TV b4 those new straps came out!) That's the only way I can think of to justify a new TV to my wife. LOL.

    Another thought is to return it and wait to see if a fix is offered and the buy it again. I traded in my old PS2 to get $100 credit from EBgames toward a purchase of the PS3 so i'm not sure how they would process that return. argh...decisions, decisions.....

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayWalker View Post
    Lefein's point on the 720p TV broadcast point is right on. Where is the outrage about that?
    Every cable and satellite box has a built-in scalar to upconvert to 1080i.

    It is crazy how far some of you will go to defend a horrible design decision that Sony made.
    Xbox 360, PS3, PC gamer

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendrid View Post
    Every cable and satellite box has a built-in scalar to upconvert to 1080i.

    It is crazy how far some of you will go to defend a horrible design decision that Sony made.
    You are right it is crazy when you consider the chip only costs a few dollars.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendrid View Post
    Every cable and satellite box has a built-in scalar to upconvert to 1080i.
    As do most TVs, not just the good ones. I think this is a case of a small minority making a mountain out of a molehill, not to mention 360 fanboys talking it up to no end.

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel3 View Post
    You are good to go!! I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM AND THEN I TURNED IT TO 1080 HDMI AND EVERYTHING GOT SPALLER AND CLEARER AND THE HD WAS WORKING
    i also had this problem so i just called sony and they walked me through. i had to hold my finger down on the on button while i turned the ps3 on in the back and waited until there was 2 beeps instead of one. then it asked me if i wanted 1080i. everything turned smaller and the graphics were alot better.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuzzlebutt View Post
    As do most TVs, not just the good ones. I think this is a case of a small minority making a mountain out of a molehill, not to mention 360 fanboys talking it up to no end.
    Raise a legitimate complaint about the PS3 and that automatically makes them a 360 fanboy? Wow, sorry, next time we will swallow what ever punch Sony gives us then keep our mouth shut.

  10. #235
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    Hmmm,

    This is amazing.

    Fact 1: Sony didnt reveal the PS3's final specs until 2006, HDTV's appeared in 2001 - so how are 1080i buyers uninformed and why are these TV's crappy.

    Fact 2: There are far far far more 1080i TV's on the market then 1080P's, those of you that have a 1080i set that also supports 720P just really lucked out!!! There was no forthought in this because when you purchased your TV 2 or 3 years ago you had no idea what resolutions the PS3 would support. So please stop all the disinformation and claiming you where so informed when obviously you were not.

    Fact 3: Sony made the final decision on going with the Bluray the middle of last year. This was one of the issues that delayed the launch, and if it wasnt for bluray guess what the PS3 would have some sort of scaler for 1080i and all 1080i owners wouldnt be stupid, uninformed, whining jerks.

    Fact4: If your lucky enough to have a 1080P, the only way to utilize this resolution is via 1080P games on the PS3's or HD players. So for all its worth the 1080P set isnt the standard. Not when all networks broadcast at either 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Not one satellite or cable company, nor major network broadcasts at 1080p.


    Dallas

  11. #236
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    In my house, we have 2 sony rear projection hdtvs that are almost 4 years old. They support all 480's, 720p and 1080i. My question is, how old are the hdtv's that these people have? If you bought an Hdtv 4, 5, even 6 years ago (I don't even know if they were on the market yet), wouldn't you have the dough to buy a new HDTV?

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas4lr View Post
    Hmmm,

    This is amazing.

    Fact 1: Sony didnt reveal the PS3's final specs until 2006, HDTV's appeared in 2001 - so how are 1080i buyers uninformed and why are these TV's crappy.

    Fact 2: There are far far far more 1080i TV's on the market then 1080P's, those of you that have a 1080i set that also supports 720P just really lucked out!!! There was no forthought in this because when you purchased your TV 2 or 3 years ago you had no idea what resolutions the PS3 would support. So please stop all the disinformation and claiming you where so informed when obviously you were not.

    Fact 3: Sony made the final decision on going with the Bluray the middle of last year. This was one of the issues that delayed the launch, and if it wasnt for bluray guess what the PS3 would have some sort of scaler for 1080i and all 1080i owners wouldnt be stupid, uninformed, whining jerks.

    Fact4: If your lucky enough to have a 1080P, the only way to utilize this resolution is via 1080P games on the PS3's or HD players. So for all its worth the 1080P set isnt the standard. Not when all networks broadcast at either 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Not one satellite or cable company, nor major network broadcasts at 1080p.


    Dallas
    Well certain members drink Kool Aid and a lot of it. Some of them show the same characteristics as Mansion's cult family. I am pretty sure they call Sony by the name of Holy Father.

    You can also reverse this for fanboys of every console denomination.


    "We really don't need this if we want to improve the forum ~ Naxi"
    You mean I cannot call out a troll for being a useless incarnation of flesh?

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trowa View Post
    Raise a legitimate complaint about the PS3 and that automatically makes them a 360 fanboy? Wow, sorry, next time we will swallow what ever punch Sony gives us then keep our mouth shut.
    I suppose you have survey results? How many people own these mythical 1080i only "HD"TVs and a PS3? Don't you think Sony has these numbers? Even my old RPTV from 2001 supported 1080i and 720P.

    So again, how much is the "squeaky wheel" syndrome and how much of it is the Xbots? I'm sure real people out there own these faux-HDTVs and I feel for them, but I honestly hear more about this problem from people who are not affected.

  14. #239
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    sorry this was a double post

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmacfan4321 View Post
    In my house, we have 2 sony rear projection hdtvs that are almost 4 years old. They support all 480's, 720p and 1080i. My question is, how old are the hdtv's that these people have? If you bought an Hdtv 4, 5, even 6 years ago (I don't even know if they were on the market yet), wouldn't you have the dough to buy a new HDTV?
    I suppose you have survey results? How many people own these mythical 1080i only "HD"TVs and a PS3? Don't you think Sony has these numbers? Even my old RPTV from 2001 supported 1080i and 720P.

    So again, how much is the "squeaky wheel" syndrome and how much of it is the Xbots? I'm sure real people out there own these faux-HDTVs and I feel for them, but I honestly hear more about this problem from people who are not affected.




    Actually,

    I just purchased a brand new 61" RCA DLP last week, the thing is soooo new its not on the RCA website and there is no info on it online. The manuals that accompanied the set only mention 480i and 1080i. So I would have to assume that these types of sets are still being developed. As I stated my model was released less than a month ago #M61WH74S, and I'm almost positive it doesnt support 720p. I returned a 720p Toshiba 56" DLP to get this model because it had better picture and sound. I'm no expert, but most of the new DLP HDTVs only support one HD standard, and I'm a recent shopper. Almost every DLP set I saw either supported: 480/720p or 480/1080i, or 480/1080p. I didnt see no DLP's that supported 480/720p/1080i. And I only know of 2 DLP models that support 1080p and one has been discontinued.

    Dallas

  16. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendrid View Post
    Every cable and satellite box has a built-in scalar to upconvert to 1080i.

    It is crazy how far some of you will go to defend a horrible design decision that Sony made.

    Ok. Fine.

    I give up.

    Apparently you guys are just helpless consumers.
    Enjoy your 1080i TVs and go buy a 360.

    By Theft
    I am stunned that some people appear to love their Playstation(1,2,3) or Xbox(360) more than I love the Denver Broncos.
    Trust me, it's sad

  17. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas4lr View Post
    Actually,

    I just purchased a brand new 61" RCA DLP last week, the thing is soooo new its not on the RCA website and there is no info on it online. The manuals that accompanied the set obnly mention 480i and 1080i. So I would have to assume that these types of sets are still being developed. As I stated my model was released less than a month ago #M61WH74S, and I'm almost positive it doesnt support 720p.

    Dallas
    Umm no. DLPs are pixel displays, they cannot really do interlaced output. It is either a 1080P (it may only accept a 1080i input though) or 720P display. Either way I bet you is has a built in scaler. Did you get a manual?

    If it was <$2k I bet it's a 720P that accpets 1080i and scales it.
    Edit: Ya, it's a 720P that takes a 1080i signal (a real HDTV).

    http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/RCA-M61WH74.htm

  18. #243
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    wow, i came to this thread to see if the scaling issue was fixed, and all i read were a bunch of duche bags arguing over whether xbox or ps3 is better...

  19. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuzzlebutt View Post
    Umm no. DLPs are pixel displays, they cannot really do interlaced output. It is either a 1080P (it may only accept a 1080i input though) or 720P display. Either way I bet you is has a built in scaler. Did you get a manual?

    If it was <$2k I bet it's a 720P that accpets 1080i and scales it.
    Edit: Ya, it's a 720P that takes a 1080i signal (a real HDTV).

    http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/RCA-M61WH74.htm
    Cool,

    Thanks for the info, as I said I'm no expert and the manual was pretty light on info. Thank You for that awesome link.


    Dallas

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    What is the problem with 1080i tv's? Does it look worse or what is everyone complaining about??@?@?

  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas4lr View Post
    Hmmm,

    This is amazing.

    Fact 1: Sony didnt reveal the PS3's final specs until 2006, HDTV's appeared in 2001 - so how are 1080i buyers uninformed and why are these TV's crappy.

    Fact 2: There are far far far more 1080i TV's on the market then 1080P's, those of you that have a 1080i set that also supports 720P just really lucked out!!! There was no forthought in this because when you purchased your TV 2 or 3 years ago you had no idea what resolutions the PS3 would support. So please stop all the disinformation and claiming you where so informed when obviously you were not.
    Fact 3: Sony made the final decision on going with the Bluray the middle of last year. This was one of the issues that delayed the launch, and if it wasnt for bluray guess what the PS3 would have some sort of scaler for 1080i and all 1080i owners wouldnt be stupid, uninformed, whining jerks.

    Fact4: If your lucky enough to have a 1080P, the only way to utilize this resolution is via 1080P games on the PS3's or HD players. So for all its worth the 1080P set isnt the standard. Not when all networks broadcast at either 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i. Not one satellite or cable company, nor major network broadcasts at 1080p.


    Dallas
    Fact is, we bought a standard TV. I bought my DLP over 3 years ago and its 720p/1080i. I wouldnt have bought a 1080i TV as I had a choice and made an informed decision. Now you can argue that back before they made the 720p/1080i projection TV's, etc that 480p/1080i were the only ones available for "early adopters" then you will have a point. But 2 to 3 years ago there is no excuse to have a 1080i only TV, as you would have to be luckier to find a 1080i only TV then a 720p/1080i TV. 4 to 5 years ago? Yes, i'll give you that.

    I would also take my chances on the fact that although the percentage of people who own a 1080i only TV may be more then a 1080p TV, there are more 1080p TV owners who bought/will buy a ps3, then 1080i only owners. Again, like i have said many times, it sucks, i agree, a scaler is a silly thing not to include, but the 1080i only crowd doesnt have a loud enough voice.

    Then others want to argue that even a cable box has a scaler. My TV has a scaler and its by far not the "best" out there, why doesnt yours? Where is your sheer anger aimed towards your TV manufacturer for not including a scaler if they are so cheap?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcubed View Post
    Fact is, we bought a standard TV. I bought my DLP over 3 years ago and its 720p/1080i. I wouldnt have bought a 1080i TV as I had a choice and made an informed decision. Now you can argue that back before they made the 720p/1080i projection TV's, etc that 480p/1080i were the only ones available for "early adopters" then you will have a point. But 2 to 3 years ago there is no excuse to have a 1080i only TV, as you would have to be luckier to find a 1080i only TV then a 720p/1080i TV. 4 to 5 years ago? Yes, i'll give you that.

    I would also take my chances on the fact that although the percentage of people who own a 1080i only TV may be more then a 1080p TV, there are more 1080p TV owners who bought/will buy a ps3, then 1080i only owners. Again, like i have said many times, it sucks, i agree, a scaler is a silly thing not to include, but the 1080i only crowd doesnt have a loud enough voice.

    Then others want to argue that even a cable box has a scaler. My TV has a scaler and its by far not the "best" out there, why doesnt yours? Where is your sheer anger aimed towards your TV manufacturer for not including a scaler if they are so cheap?
    What is the 1080i problem?>

  23. #248
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    The whole issue can be summed up nicely:

    "The Xbox 360 is compatible and playable in HD on every HDTV set ever made.

    The PS3 is not."

    It's quite simple. Sony could have added a $25 scaler chip into PS3 and saved PS3 owners all of this headache, and saved themselves some bad press. But they decided to save some $$$ to gain more profit, just like they decide to cut rumble from PS3 so to save even more $$$ to gain more profit, while adding Blu-Ray when 90% of homes worldwide don't have HDTVs to make even more $$$ by making Blu-Ray the next home video standard and selling Blu-Ray content and licensing.

    Not having a scaler even affects Blu-Ray playback since it can't downscale from 1080p to 720p, now any owners of 720p only HDTVs will need to watch BR movies in 480p.

    At the same time, you could say Sony is very clever since they expect at least a portion of those 1080i only or 720p only HDTV owners to then be forced to buy a new Sony HDTV, ideally with 1080p. Because of this, I don't think Sony is going to fix the scaling issues.

    Is it an anti-trust issue? No, because there are no laws forbidding television manufacturers from selling videogame consoles. However, is there a conflict of interest? Obviously there is as Sony has made PS3 only fully compatible with its latest 1080p HDTVs, and has seemingly left other HDTV owners, even of sets made by Sony itself, in the dust.

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    Quote Originally Posted by five6ix7seven View Post
    The whole issue can be summed up nicely:

    "The Xbox 360 is compatible and playable in HD on every HDTV set ever made.

    The PS3 is not."

    It's quite simple. Sony could have added a $25 scaler chip into PS3 and saved PS3 owners all of this headache, and saved themselves some bad press. But they decided to save some $$$ to gain more profit, just like they decide to cut rumble from PS3 so to save even more $$$ to gain more profit, while adding Blu-Ray when 90% of homes worldwide don't have HDTVs to make even more $$$ by making Blu-Ray the next home video standard and selling Blu-Ray content and licensing.

    Not having a scaler even affects Blu-Ray playback since it can't downscale from 1080p to 720p, now any owners of 720p only HDTVs will need to watch BR movies in 480p.

    At the same time, you could say Sony is very clever since they expect at least a portion of those 1080i only or 720p only HDTV owners to then be forced to buy a new Sony HDTV, ideally with 1080p. Because of this, I don't think Sony is going to fix the scaling issues.

    Is it an anti-trust issue? No, because there are no laws forbidding television manufacturers from selling videogame consoles. However, is there a conflict of interest? Obviously there is as Sony has made PS3 only fully compatible with its latest 1080p HDTVs, and has seemingly left other HDTV owners, even of sets made by Sony itself, in the dust.
    So even if the resolution is set to 1080i, it will only play in 480p?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    So even if the resolution is set to 1080i, it will only play in 480p?
    Correct, unless the game supports 1080p. Then the PS3 can scale it to 1080i for you.
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