Cnet's Bluray vs. Hddvd

[Rubics Cube]

Your forgetting BD has more support from hardware manufacturers and the movie studios. I think saying its in the lead "merely" because its been sold to hardcore sony fans are naive. There are many more multinational corps who would disagree with you im afraid.

There is no doubt that there is more hardware and movie support right now. It should also be noted, that with such extensive support, HD-DVD should be CRUSHED right now, when in fact, it's not. If one were to take the free player in the PS3, HD-DVD was holding of BR just fine, with more movie titles. HD-DVD isn't going anywhere.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me. It's just important to get the facts out. I will not be purchasing many movies for my BR or HD-DVD. I am all about the digital downloads.

[LevelheadedGamer]

There is no doubt that there is more hardware and movie support right now. It should also be noted, that with such extensive support, HD-DVD should be CRUSHED right now, when in fact, it's not. If one were to take the free player in the PS3, HD-DVD was holding of BR just fine, with more movie titles. HD-DVD isn't going anywhere.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me. It's just important to get the facts out. I will not be purchasing many movies for my BR or HD-DVD. I am all about the digital downloads.

I think this is the point some in this thread are trying to make. HDDVD IS crushed. Its a dieing format and is moments from death. The 360 add on and further limited releases of films are merely HDDVD's last gasp for air before it goes to the big electronic junkyard in the sky.

[SteveMondragon]

What's funny is when she is talking about price, she only talks about the disc itself and manufacturing it and producing it for the content to go onto it. She doesn't go into the fact that Blu-Ray movies are cheaper in retail stores and outlets, and the same for Blu-Ray DVD players themselves. I think that also hold a huge factor for the consumer market.

[ShawdoBoxer]

I am sure I might be older than you. I have a 7 year old son

However, I did have Pong, Atari 5200, Coleco Vision, Intellivision and Sega Genesis. Nintendo was popular in my late highschool/early college years when I never gamed.

Ok I see, Atari 5200 my cousin use to have one, we killed the poor machine playing it so much, boy has systems come along way since then. Well you did not miss out to much on all the fun, sega genesis was the 2nd best console to this date IMO.

[Behemoko]

I have yet to see an HDTV that doesn't have VGA.

I haven't seen more than 3 or 4 tv's, TOPS with a VGA input in my life, lol.

[Jeegan]

At this point, neither Blu-ray nor HD-DVD is cheap enough to be a winner. The moms and pops out there aren't that interested in spending $500 on a high definition DVD player and $25-$30 for high definition DVDs when you can get a $30 DVD player and DVDs anywhere from $5-$20 and the average person really does not see a huge difference between DVD and high def DVD when it comes to films. Only people like us, the PS3 and 360 generation really care about these kinds of things to spend this kind of money and we are not a deciding force when it comes to movies. Personally, I love my PS3 and love to watch Blu-ray movies on it. And I would love to see both formats continue on, driving each one to be better and better. And even if one loses the movie war, or both possibly, hopefully they will both continue on in the data storage department. As for movies, I want to see it go the digital download route. I would rather just download a high def movie and store it on whatever I want then buy a certain media in the store. Just my 2 cents.

[fis]

Correct me if I am wrong but HD DVD max output is only 1080i and not 1080p as Blu Ray?

[REFLEX]

I am sure I might be older than you. I have a 7 year old son

However, I did have Pong, Atari 5200, Coleco Vision, Intellivision and Sega Genesis. Nintendo was popular in my late highschool/early college years when I never gamed.



I have yet to see an HDTV that doesn't have VGA. In fact, most people DO have VGA. As for component for 1080p, that is true, that was rare. They finally started making more of them this past fall/christmas.

But not having an HDMI cable does suck. At least MS has talked about producing one finally to address the TruHD/HDCP problem.

Well this is slightly true for sure! well more than slightly , but its different ... because while many HDTVs do have VGA inputs, most of the ones with VGA inputs do not accept VGA at full 1080p! Most have overscan issues and most of them (because of HDCP and other issues I cant quite think of) dont do it at full resolution. Most Sony and Samsung HDTVs wont accept VGA at full 1080p. It does suck, but luckily I dont use it for anything.

And yeah.... the 360 HD DVD add on is cool, but it is terribly lacking when it comes to the HDMI, without it you cannot get 1080p to the vast majority of HDTVs nor can you get all these advanced HD Audio codecs from movies.

Correct me if I am wrong but HD DVD max output is only 1080i and not 1080p as Blu Ray?

Your wrong, and Ill correct you! Both HD DVDs and Blu-ray movies are true 1080p. The first line of HD DVD players last year would only output 1080i, which if you have a 1080p HDTV doenst matter, 1080i vs. 1080p on a 1080p HDTV is basically the same thing, but thats another discussion altogether. So... both formats are 1080p, and it was only the players that restricted 1080p playback, but now there are 1080p HD DVD players.... and there is going to be a new one from Toshiba soon... I have the HD-XA2 HD DVD player from Toshiba, its their best one and it rocks.... it outputs at a nice 1080p! So there you go.

[FatherOfOne]

Almost every single retail store sells it. There have already been over 200,000 of them sold worldwide. BestBuy, CompUSA, Circuit City, Walmart, Shopko, you name it.

[color=#0000ff]

Well, it's not 3 losses really, when HDMI is what is need to address all three of those. In addition, HDCP compliance isn't needed right now, and console and add-on are DolbyHD 7.1 ready.

First there has only been a little over 90k HD-DVD add ons. Compare that to 2million PS3's shipped (~1.4 million sold) and HD-DVD looks bleak.

I would also say that "if" you have to go out and buy two products and then hook them together just to get HD-DVD then you are in a different market. Life is all but over for HD-DVD, and I found it somewhat funny that they didn't mention the number of movies this year in bluray vs hd-dvd. blu-ray has around 2X as many movies being released and the one small advantage that HD-DVD has (cost) will more than likely go away when the manufacturing cost of blu-ray shrinks because of the millions of PS3's being sold.

Now I fully expect Microsoft to sell a 360 with HDMI and HD-DVD, but it will be too late. Right wrong or indifferent Sony including Blu-Ray in the PS3 all but cemented it as the defacto standard.

The war will be all but over by the end of this year. 6 to 10 million blu-ray players to .... what 200 to 300k HD-DVD players at best. I feel for you because you basically threw your money away on a technology that will only have a handful of movies for it and NO GAMES that use it. The good news is that it was only $200.

[Pong]

Well, I read through this thread and see that Rubics is very defensive for HD-DVD .

My guess is that you are defensive because you've invested $200 in it already *shrugs*.

You seemed to be pretty knowledgeable about the technology and had some good points backing it except for a couple of statements that caught my eye:

Personally, I see the future of either format very limited, and not lasting nowhere near as long as DVD. DVD has another good 5 years minimum, and at that point, I believe the move will be to digital downloads.

Within five years?? That is pretty optimistic! I highly doubt that the combination of infrastructure, compression technology and wide-spread consumer ability will be in place within five years to support quick and secure digital transmission of high-def movies. (honestly though, I hope you are right because that would be great!)

Where I do think HD-DVD or BR will flourish is in the storage market. Data storage that is.

If it comes down to data storage, which technology do you think will win that battle?? (trick question of course! )

[Rubics Cube]

First there has only been a little over 90k HD-DVD add ons. Compare that to 2million PS3's shipped (~1.4 million sold) and HD-DVD looks bleak.

HD-DVD addons are at about 200,000. There is 100,000 in America alone (it was at 150,000 worldwide just around Christmas. This happened last week.

http://www.360-gamer.com/news.asp?id=226

The above link is just U.S. only sales. I am having trouble finding the news link I saw to the 200,000 worldwide units. The interesting stat here is not only have they sold 200,000 of them (and they are addon!), but it goes to show exactly what the real demand is for HD movies in general. Where as with the PS3, we will never know if the 1 million sold will equate to blu-ray movies sales for 1 million consoles. Who am I to argue about the inclusion of the BR player in my PS3 as I paid for it anyway. I would rather have just paid $400 for my PS3, no BR, and some good games.

I would also say that "if" you have to go out and buy two products and then hook them together just to get HD-DVD then you are in a different market. Life is all but over for HD-DVD, and I found it somewhat funny that they didn't mention the number of movies this year in bluray vs hd-dvd. blu-ray has around 2X as many movies being released and the one small advantage that HD-DVD has (cost) will more than likely go away when the manufacturing cost of blu-ray shrinks because of the millions of PS3's being sold.

No arguement there from me. The only thing I will disagree on is that HD-DVD is far from gone.

Now I fully expect Microsoft to sell a 360 with HDMI and HD-DVD, but it will be too late. Right wrong or indifferent Sony including Blu-Ray in the PS3 all but cemented it as the defacto standard.

I fully expect MS to sell a 360 with HDMI, yes. HD-DVD is entirely possible, but unlikely, and if it is bundled, it will NEVER be used for games.

The war will be all but over by the end of this year. 6 to 10 million blu-ray players to .... what 200 to 300k HD-DVD players at best.

I would beg to differ on those figures since there are 200,000 addons in the cosumer hands already, not counting stand alone.

I feel for you because you basically threw your money away on a technology that will only have a handful of movies for it and NO GAMES that use it. The good news is that it was only $200.

Shouldn't feel for me at all. HD-DVD has the largest existing library of titles to convert from old (I prefer all the old movies to almost every single new movie coming out), and to top it off, I got my add-on free.

And finally, I have a BR player too. I get the best of both worlds

Well, I read through this thread and see that Rubics is very defensive for HD-DVD .

My guess is that you are defensive because you've invested $200 in it already *shrugs*.

You seemed to be pretty knowledgeable about the technology and had some good points backing it except for a couple of statements that caught my eye:
Within five years?? That is pretty optimistic! I highly doubt that the combination of infrastructure, compression technology and wide-spread consumer ability will be in place within five years to support quick and secure digital transmission of high-def movies. (honestly though, I hope you are right because that would be great!)

If it comes down to data storage, which technology do you think will win that battle?? (trick question of course! )

Pong, see my reply above. If it comes down to data storage, BR is a no brainer. It holds more.

As for 5 years, be sure not to spin my words. I said DVD has at minimum another 5 year life span. I also said that HD-DVD and BR won't have as long of a lifespan as DVD. And then I said digital downloads is the future. At no point did I say I expected digital downloads to be the medium distribution in 5 years. However, it's already started.

[REFLEX]

Shouldn't feel for me at all. HD-DVD has the largest existing library of titles to convert from old (I prefer all the old movies to almost every single new movie coming out), and to top it off, I got my add-on free.

And finally, I have a BR player too. I get the best of both worlds



Pong, see my reply above. If it comes down to data storage, BR is a no brainer. It holds more.

As for 5 years, be sure not to spin my words. I said DVD has at minimum another 5 year life span. I also said that HD-DVD and BR won't have as long of a lifespan as DVD. And then I said digital downloads is the future. At no point did I say I expected digital downloads to be the medium distribution in 5 years. However, it's already started.

I pretty much agree. I also agree with my statements just above this post about the Audio and 1080p issues with VGA, and HDCP stuff....

... having said that, I too agree that most new movies suck, and will mostly never hold a flame to the old good ones, Hollywood's golden age is long over my friend.

Also, more importantly and more on subject I think that youll find (and I cannot find this right now) that people in the business of authoring and creating HD DVDs and BDs for most commercial movies will tell you that the extra space is NOT needed for almost all films. In some cases with extra amounts of HD Extras and Extended Cuts of LONG movies (think LOTR) then yeah.. ofcourse. But for almost any other title the extra space is not going to be used. TrueHD and Lossless PCM fit onto HD DVD too.

The extra space can be put to use for some movies like I said.... but most movies arent truly LONG. And most titles do not have TrueHD or Lossless MPCM on them.

The 360 Add on is good for some people, but for a lot of people its not going to cut it. Luckily good HD DVD players are cheap. So if you want the HD DVD library then your in luck. I have a XA2 HD DVD player and the PS3. Im super happy with this stuff for movies .

[Rubics Cube]

I pretty much agree. I also agree with my statements just above this post about the Audio and 1080p issues with VGA, and HDCP stuff....

... having said that, I too agree that most new movies suck, and will mostly never hold a flame to the old good ones, Hollywood's golden age is long over my friend.

Also, more importantly and more on subject I think that youll find (and I cannot find this right now) that people in the business of authoring and creating HD DVDs and BDs for most commercial movies will tell you that the extra space is NOT needed for almost all films. In some cases with extra amounts of HD Extras and Extended Cuts of LONG movies (think LOTR) then yeah.. ofcourse. But for almost any other title the extra space is not going to be used. TrueHD and Lossless PCM fit onto HD DVD too.

The extra space can be put to use for some movies like I said.... but most movies arent truly LONG. And most titles do not have TrueHD or Lossless MPCM on them.

The 360 Add on is good for some people, but for a lot of people its not going to cut it. Luckily good HD DVD players are cheap. So if you want the HD DVD library then your in luck. I have a XA2 HD DVD player and the PS3. Im super happy with this stuff for movies .

You know, the irony here? I am an audio/videophile, and I love my DolbyHD, TruHD and 7.1 setup, etc, with full digital support. However, in the end, when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter for the digital sound aspect of any system since they end up going and getting converted to analog the second it hits the analog speakers we all have

[Azure]

Cube, your posts are sexy.

I did some random researcher a while back asking mainly the 300 odd people on my msn list what they knew about blu-ray and HD-DVD, the overwhelming majority of people [from a generally young male gaming demograph] knew sod all about blu-ray and if they were to pick would pick HD-DVD just because HD-DVD obviously goes with HD-TV [despite HD meaning high density in the DVD case].

[Vipeme]

2: I dont count that crappy add-on, lol

I'm no fan of the 360, but the add-on is just dandy. I noticed no problems with playback, other than sound, which is a draw-back with hd-dvd, not this
add-on.

[REFLEX]

You know, the irony here? I am an audio/videophile, and I love my DolbyHD, TruHD and 7.1 setup, etc, with full digital support. However, in the end, when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter for the digital sound aspect of any system since they end up going and getting converted to analog the second it hits the analog speakers we all have

Ah yes, but the sound going there is different..... so its fine for me really. There is a huge difference in TrueHD or other Lossless MPCM and optical audio.

[Rubics Cube]

Cube, your posts are sexy.

Please tell me you are a beautiful woman!

[DontKnowMe]

I'm kind of suprised that they call it a draw.

[plee]

I think it will be content that will eventually decide it all. Right now BD is putting the full court press on (Disney, Fox, Sony, etc...) and we'll see how HD DVD responds to it.

Upcoming BD Releases

January 23, 2007
Alien vs. Predator (Fox)
Black Rain (Paramount)
Casanova (Buena Vista)
Chicago (Buena Vista)
Courage Under Fire (Fox)
The Guardian (2006) (Buena Vista)
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Buena Vista)
The Manchurian Candidate (2004) (Paramount)
Men of Honor (Fox)
Saw II (Unrated) (Lionsgate)
Saw III (Lionsgate)
We Were Soldiers (Paramount)
January 30, 2007
Beerfest (Warner)
Flyboys (Fox)
Hart's War (Fox)
Open Season (Sony)
The Wicker Man (2006) (Warner)
February 06, 2007
American Psycho (Lionsgate)
Failure to Launch (Paramount)
First Blood (Lionsgate)
Reservoir Dogs (Lionsgate)
Running With Scissors (Sony)
The Tailor of Panama (Sony)
February 13, 2007
Broken Arrow (Fox)
Chain Reaction (Fox)
The Departed (Warner)
Entrapment (Fox)
Ladder 49 (Buena Vista)
Marie Antoinette (Sony)
The Marine (Fox)
Phone Booth (Fox)
Planet of the Apes (Fox)
Reign of Fire (Buena Vista)
The Sentinel (Fox)
The Usual Suspects (Fox)
February 20, 2007
Babel (Paramount)
The Prestige (Buena Vista)
Vertical Limit (Sony)
February 27, 2007
Bullitt (Warner)
The Getaway (1972) (Warner)
Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time (Interscope)
Stranger Than Fiction (Sony)
March 13, 2007
Casino Royale (Sony)
Commando (Fox)
Dances with Wolves (MGM)
Dodgeball (Fox)
Hoosiers (MGM)
Ice Age (Fox)
Layer Cake (Sony)
Mr. & Mrs. Smith (Fox)
The Thomas Crown Affair (1999) (MGM)
March 20, 2007
Big Fish (Sony)
Chicken Little (Buena Vista)
Finding Neverland (Buena Vista)
March 27, 2007
Happy Feet (Warner)
National Geographic: Relentless Enemies (Warner)
April 03, 2007
Dude, Where's My Car? (MGM)
The Fly (1986) (Fox)
G.I. Jane (Buena Vista)
Hannibal (MGM)
King Arthur Director's Cut (Buena Vista)
Me, Myself & Irene (Fox)
The Silence of the Lambs (MGM)
Tristan & Isolde (Fox)
April 10, 2007
Payback: Straight Up - The Director's Cut (Paramount)
April 17, 2007
Turistas (Fox)
April 24, 2007
Planet Earth: The Complete Collection (BBC)
May 22, 2007
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (Buena Vista) JUST LISTED!
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (Buena Vista) JUST LISTED!
June 05, 2007
Cars (Buena Vista) JUST LISTED!
June 08, 2007
Con Air (Buena Vista)
Crimson Tide (Buena Vista)
The Rock (Buena Vista)

[Cyrann]

I just wish the second week of Feburary would get her so I can make my girlfriend buy me The Ususal Suspects and The Departed for V-day...

woot woot!!!!

[VisciousCode]

That's fine if you don't count it. Over 200,000 other people are counting it, and it offers just as many features as my BR player on my PS3 less HDMI.

The biggest problem I have is when biased PS fans discount the HD-DVD addon when they don't even own one. The reviews are in, and it's got great reviews, and it's selling very well, and continues to sell out in locations.

Now if MS would just finish putting together that HDMI cable, we would be all set. MAKING ME MAD!

Oh really? That's why they are stacked up at bestbuy store 565 ( I work their).Blu-ray is king in magnolia, we are selling around 1.75 blu-ray titles to 1 HDDVD title. Most people that invest in this stuff right now are high end videophiles (rich people). Blu-ray is king in magnolia/sound advice. 360 sales have slowed down alot since after hte holidays while the ps3's seem to be on a steady rate of sales, we are sold out ATM (50 shipments 2 weeks ago, and 67 last week, all gone). Most people that wanted a 360 got one, it's slowing down, once all the PS2 users start moving onto their familiar platform, the 360 will start loosing ground. It's inevitable, (probably not in 2007) 2008 will be the year the PS3 reigns king.

[REFLEX]

Since when do you have to be rich to afford a really great Home Theater set up? Its called a job.


Anyway, back on topic.... the HD DVD Add on for the 360 is GOOD for playing discs.. the visual aspect, but since it has no HDMI people are going to be stuck with Optical, no TrueHD, no 7.1 channels of sound, basically no lossless audio, hardly any HDTVs (and basically almost NO new ones) accept 1080p with Component cables, not to mention most HDTVs with VGA dont display in full 1080... .... and for most Home Theater enthusiasts it pretty much automatically makes it not worth it. So they will go with a stand a lone player, which are better, and in some cases like the XA2 or the XA1.. they are a lot better.

I find it funny around this forum ... some people act as if they can predict the future, Im not saying any 1 format or any 1 system will win, Im saying ... lets see what happens.

[Rubics Cube]

Oh really? That's why they are stacked up at bestbuy store 565 ( I work their).Blu-ray is king in magnolia, we are selling around 1.75 blu-ray titles to 1 HDDVD title. Most people that invest in this stuff right now are high end videophiles (rich people). Blu-ray is king in magnolia/sound advice. 360 sales have slowed down alot since after hte holidays while the ps3's seem to be on a steady rate of sales, we are sold out ATM (50 shipments 2 weeks ago, and 67 last week, all gone). Most people that wanted a 360 got one, it's slowing down, once all the PS2 users start moving onto their familiar platform, the 360 will start loosing ground. It's inevitable, (probably not in 2007) 2008 will be the year the PS3 reigns king.

My sister actually works for the Best Buy here where I live, and it's the exact opposite of your store. Odd how that works.

[Buck23]

yo bekemoko....... is ur speedtest thing good?.... cuz i got 3000 download and 500 upload... is that good?

[VisciousCode]

My sister actually works for the Best Buy here where I live, and it's the exact opposite of your store. Odd how that works.

PS3 sales vary by location. But blu-ray is doing pretty well.