Professional Wrestling Thread

[XMW]

if they came back now, all independence promotion would have a fair slice of the rating pie and competition for talent would be incredible and WWE would find it hard to be fresh all the time

In away the promotions of old are still around in small bits here and there and Jerry the King Lawyer still provides the WWE with fresh talent to compete at their development company to move to the WWE

Indy promotions will never get a fair slice of ratings, they don't have the funds to get onto national television (alot of promotions are in fact on tv, they're just local tv). Even if they did get on national tv alot of people wouldn't watch them because its not WWE, no matter how good they are (just look at TNA)

Btw, Jerry Lawler doesn't provide shit lol, it's all Jim Ross & Gerald Brisco who scout talent. Also Harley Race occasionally has tryout camps for the WWE.

Jerry Lawler has his own promotion still tho right?

I thing ROH should become the next development program for WWE but it seems they are set on NXT becoming that one day

I think Lawler opened "Memphis Wrestling" somewhere in 2010 but afaik it stopped running shows after only 2 or 3 episodes. Lawler is one of very few to be allowed to accept independent bookings though (I know Primo and Epico can do so too in Puerto Rico, any others I'm forgetting?)

NXT is actually the developmental territory, it's the same as FCW was they just changed the name and overhauled the look. ROH will never be a development program though, WWE will just snatch their talent after they've grown there like they do with promotions all over the world.
Idk they might do some sort of agreement with them like they have with Boston Wrestling (Millenium Wrestling Federation, Cena's dad is associated with them) but I dont think much more than that will happen.

I did read that dude from Smashing Pumpkins who has his own promotion (Resistance Pro) wants to become a farming fed for WWE.

EDIT: Lol @ Molo; sister-zoned! :P

[claud3]

ok that's me in my place...

i would watch them and you have to admit some if not a lot of them promotions are on power with matches like the WWE and TNA

[XMW]

ok that's me in my place...

i would watch them and you have to admit some if not a lot of them promotions are on power with matches like the WWE and TNA

Eh not trying to put anyone in their place, not trying to be an elitist, just giving my opinion and sharing my views on a sport I love just like you all.

As for the rest of your post, you say you'd watch them.. Well why don't you watch them now? It's 2013, indy wrestling is accesible enough through YouTube. I can find you atleast 10 promotions who put full shows and matches online.
Not trying to force you or anyone into watching it, but is there really an excuse/reason not to watch it other than you don't want to or you don't have the time?

[claud3]

i would but i need to get out of this state off mind, that the WWE is the best in the world and no other can beat it

It's not that easy after over 20+ years watching the WWE

i am going to check out Indy Wrestling

[XMW]

I'm seriously contemplating downloading the Russo era of WCW (and a bit before that - '99, '00, '01) I've been reading The Death of WCW again (great book btw) and seeing as no wrestling show on earth could be worse than Raw is right now I might dl it and watch it all over again.
I also read some quotes from the Wrestling Observer about the dying days of WCW and some just legit made me laugh:

"The 12/18 Nitro was supposed to practically be built around Rick Steiner as the surprise guy, but he wasn't there because they forgot to tell him"

"The Demon vs. Vampiro feud was scheduled to go like this. Demon was to be revealed as the Son of the Devil, I swear I'm not making this up, who had turned good because he turned his back on his father. Vampiro would be revealed to have been sent down, or up, however the geography goes, to garner revenge. On the New Years Eve PPV, Demon would toss Vampiro into a vat of holy water, and when he got out, he'd change to a new character"

"Bret Hart filmed a hip hop video this past week"

"Bagwell and Kanyon, who at this point had turned on eachother twice, where scheduled to face Flair and Crowbar. Bigelow attacked Kanyon, suplexing him on the entrance ramp and threw him off the stage through a table. This bump was far more dangerous than similar WWF bumps where they have all these pads set up covered in a blanket around the table when they go off the ramp, but the stunt was nill as the cameras missed the shot"

"Funk came out with chickens on both hands like they were boxing gloves"

Lol, I cant wait to re-watch this trainwreck.

[claud3]

Seen a lot about the death of wcw and ecw and the old wrestling companies, its amazing how tucked up they really were and how bad they were at business

The WWE will go that way sometime in the future

[XMW]

WWE will never go that way. In fact I'd say the future is looking very bright. I'm looking forward to the day HHH takes over. He seems to have a great mind for this business. Say what you want about him, but he's been jobbing at the bottom of the card and has scratched and clawed to get to the top, that's someone you want as boss - he knows how it is at the top and the bottom of the card.

Look at the current NXT roster, absolutely filled with talent - they put on great shows, and guess who's in charge of those shows? That's right, Triple H.

[claud3]

likewise, but you know Vince will still have some say in the day to day business off the WWE

watching TNA, Matches are awesome. But i am so pissed that they are having another wedding and it's the worse one ever

What is it with the whole shitting brook and Bully storyline, why

[Molo316]

To be fair, Triple H has to give a great assist to hooking up with Stephanie for his rise to the top. He even cheated on Chyna apparently.

I'm not denying that he worked his ass off and came from a complete jobber to one of the best heels in wrestling, but I do wonder that if Stephanie stayed with Test, if he would be taking the reigns or at least having a say in things. I heard that Vince didn't like Triple H before, but I suppose he came round to him when he found out his daughter was getting boned by her.

I never liked the idea of Helmsley taking over, but I have to admit that I agree he's doing a great job and seems to be more in touch with what the people eventually want than Vince does.

[claud3]

the WWE is working like a dream according to all accounts and that is great news... But if Vince keeps poking his nose in and he will

The company will not going anywhere fast

[DeviousOne]

I think Triple H has done business the right way. He's far from perfect but I feel better than Vince at this point of the game.

Idk is Steph wouldve stayed with test if he wouldve been anything special. Triple H got his power by hanging around shawn michaels when he was the TOP guy in the back. But Triple H jobbed to the ultimate warrior in 30 seconds he's worked his ass off and no one can deny that.

[Molo316]

[claud3]

i just want to see the direction the WWE goes and it being a great path. Now lets move on to something really important

The whole horror of the rock getting the WWE title and him ruining the creditably of the WWE and it will be a massive horror for the WWE to screw PUNK this way for so long being champ

[XMW]

How will The Rock winning the title ruin its credibility? If anything it makes it more prestiges. The countless Cena, Orton and Edge reigns is what killed the credibility of the title. I still fail to see the problem with The Rock winning the title, I for one can't wait until Rock gets the title.

[Yuuichi]

How will The Rock winning the title ruin its credibility? If anything it makes it more prestiges. The countless Cena, Orton and Edge reigns is what killed the credibility of the title. I still fail to see the problem with The Rock winning the title, I for one can't wait until Rock gets the title.

Because instead of focusing on their roster and pushing people the rock swoops in for three months to be champ just to job it to cena at wm. Then maybe next year he will swoop in again and maybe year after that. It is an insult to have him as champ when there people busting their ass out there but wwe has their head so far up their ass that they just bring in vinces buddy dwayne. Heck rock is not even doing any house shows. Punk brought credit back to the title but soon we will back to status quo with super cena. I'm tired of it and can not wait till vince leaves.

[claud3]

Because it's like, someone coming in from no were and stealing the streak off the undertaker at WM

it ruins the creditably in ways you have to understand

1. The WWE solo understanding, is that they need old wrestlers to make a title mean something again and that is wrong

2. The roster has plenty off wrestlers that they can build up and defend the title against and punk can lose the title honestly and instead of being screwed

3.The WWE builds this match up and the rock gets the title, what then and this is the way it goes. The shows are going to go back to be shit until the next rock defense of the title, which freaking sucks

4. The rock will not defend the title all the time and even on the two brands or many house events... Makes no sense giving the title to someone that has struck a deal, so he defends the title at certains points leading up to WM29

5. Why even have the rock in the title race anyways. The logical step is to build up a cena vs punk match at WM29 and then either give cena the title or let punk hold on to it

6. The rock is a freaking Millionair and does not need to risk his life in the business anymore

I feel the WWE is fucking making us out to be stupid and thinking we do not know that their are actual wrestlers on the roster that could and should win the title, more than the rock should even have a chance at it

[Molo316]

I wouldn't mind seeing Rock win the title, since he's such a classic character and so on, but I don't like the fact that if he does win, he's going to end a long-term title run for CM Punk. However, I will be more pissed if it is Cena who takes the title off of Punk. I think that whoever ends his run should be a new opponent, who has been built up and does work hard - for example, Wade Barrett. I don't mean to be biased because he's English, but I reckon that he has the charisma and smug attitude to be a top heel, like in the class of Triple H when he got his first title push, or Bobby Roode when he won the World title in TNA. Basically, someone you'd love to hate and cannot wait to see lose for all the right reasons. I remember when Rock beat Triple H for the title at Backlash 2000, it was f*cking brilliant! I was younger then so I didn't stay up to watch the full PPV, but I set my alarm and got up to watch that main event and I jumped out of my seat when Rock won, because Triple H was a character I loved to hate!

Anyway, I'm going off tangent here. But since Punk has pretty much faced all the "big" guys in his current title run, I feel this is the chance to build up someone new and go from there; it's something they could make a long-term rivalry out of too. I'd have to say though that the character needs to be good and appealing too. For example, I would f*cking hate it if they went with Zack Ryder or something because he annoys the shit out of me and is not cool at all in my opinion. I'd want him to lose, but for all the wrong reasons. Some of that has to be placed on the writers and bookers though. Like Punk has been stating, you have great in-ring talent, such as Tyson Kidd, but they're squashed and never used, but I'd also have concerns at the moment that he couldn't cut interesting and long promos to get the audience engaged, but everyone deserves a chance.

So as well as being a hard worker, they simply must have that "it" factor to appeal in the route they want to go. For me, Wade Barrett fits that bill, as does Sheamus, but he's just booked terribly with his cheesey lines and promos. Anyone with a brain can clearly see that he is a tremendous worker, and some of his matches (the content of it, not necessarily the result) are top notch!

And I seem to remember people hating on Antonio Cesaro too? I think he's a tremendous worker with what he puts into matches so I'd love to see him at the top one day. I feel he could also be a top heel.

I hope I've gone somewhere with this and added something of relevance to the discussion

[claud3]

The Reason Why The Rock Want's The WWE Title

The Rock recently did an interview with the WWE Magazine and revealed why he wants to regain the WWE Title. Check out the highlights:

On why regaining the belt is important: "It starts with recognizing what the WWE Championship represents to me. Every time I hold that title over my head in victory, it not only signifies the fact that I have delivered the absolute best entertainment that I could to the WWE Universe, but that I'm taking a moment to live an experience that all the generations of wrestlers in my family strived to achieve. There is no other award that I could receive that's as deeply ingrained in my blood and history as theWWE Championship - and that's why it means so much to me."

At the same time, The Rock said that after his first WWE Title reign - which came in 1998 - he decided that he would never allow his possession of or lack of the WWE Title define his career.

On not letting the title define his career: "After my first WWEChampionship run came to an end, I made a conscious decision that night that I would work harder than any other Superstar in the locker room to become the type of WWE entertainer who, if I never had another championship run again, it would not define my career. I never wanted to rely on a title run for success."

On his recent recent approach of mixing entertainment with seriousness: "My goal was to get to a place where I relied only on what I could bring to the table in terms of being entertaining and having a one-of-a-kind - and electrifying - connection with all of the WWE Universe.

http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/1...-the-wwe-title

[XMW]

Because instead of focusing on their roster and pushing people the rock swoops in for three months to be champ just to job it to cena at wm. Then maybe next year he will swoop in again and maybe year after that. It is an insult to have him as champ when there people busting their ass out there but wwe has their head so far up their ass that they just bring in vinces buddy dwayne. Heck rock is not even doing any house shows. Punk brought credit back to the title but soon we will back to status quo with super cena. I'm tired of it and can not wait till vince leaves.

But they are focusing on their roster. Are they not pushing Ryback, Antonio Cesaro and even Dolph Ziggler? Like you said it's 3 months.. He takes up 3 months, that's more than The Undertaker and Triple H are doing, and Jericho also came just for WM last year but they get a free pass?
I see absolutely no problem with The Rock coming back for WrestleMania season. It's a fact that his segments are usually the highest rated of the show. Rock brings extra viewers and publicity to the product which in turns means everyone makes more money.

I also dont see why it matters to us if Rock is doing House shows. Are we attending them? No, we're not so why should we care who is or isnt appearing on those shows.

[claud3]

yes they are focusing on the roster... But not in the way we all want them to

We want one's to come out of no where and have unexpected attacks on the WHC and WWE champions respectively and we want epic promo's from them and segments that are awesome, we do not want them to be pushed and then left standing like a spare tit

Just to fill time and that is all it seems, to fill time between the normal CENA, ROCK, PUNK crap

[Yuuichi]

Jericho toured when he was in wwe. That is completly diff from what rocks doing. The champ is suppose to be there at the shows representing the title. Giving it to rock who is just showing up when he wants is an insult to those who do tour. Ryback got a little push yes but they already sending him to dust in the wind. Ziggler they do not know wtf to do with him and making him into cenas bitch killing whatever momentum he had before.

Tyson kidd,ted dibiasi, and cody rhodes are three examples of how wwe fails at pushing. End of 2011 these three where on a role. Tyson was rapidly going to top, cody had momentum and dibiasi was being used. Yet they completly failed with them. Tyson got pushed to the side one superstars was over. Dibiasi they even admitted they failed. Cody is now a tag team which is good but he should have had a shot at title by now. Hell look at zack ryder he was on top as us champ but they blamed him for low ratings and shoved him to the side. Only reason punk didn't get shoved to the side, which they wanted to do, was HHH and fans went to bat for him.

[claud3]

The wrestlers that have outside commitments are tied to the company and yet this puts a choke hold on many in the WWE business, because they have no freedom creative tools

Y2K has a special thing, were is that he goes on tour and mentions the WWE in some way...

But as I said the WWE needs to get out of this, we control you and therefore we own all creative thinking you do outside the company

[XMW]

Jericho toured when he was in wwe. That is completly diff from what rocks doing. The champ is suppose to be there at the shows representing the title. Giving it to rock who is just showing up when he wants is an insult to those who do tour. Ryback got a little push yes but they already sending him to dust in the wind. Ziggler they do not know wtf to do with him and making him into cenas bitch killing whatever momentum he had before.

Tyson kidd,ted dibiasi, and cody rhodes are three examples of how wwe fails at pushing. End of 2011 these three where on a role. Tyson was rapidly going to top, cody had momentum and dibiasi was being used. Yet they completly failed with them. Tyson got pushed to the side one superstars was over. Dibiasi they even admitted they failed. Cody is now a tag team which is good but he should have had a shot at title by now. Hell look at zack ryder he was on top as us champ but they blamed him for low ratings and shoved him to the side. Only reason punk didn't get shoved to the side, which they wanted to do, was HHH and fans went to bat for him.

Those who do tour are getting paid for it, I'm sure they're not complaining. My opinion is still that Rock shouldn't necessarily do house shows if he has the title. WWE has enough talent on the roster to create a main event for those shows that will sell tickets without the need of a title.
Rock might get the title 3 months, are you saying you'd rather have someone else like Ziggler have a meaningless 3 month reign and then drop the title to Cena?
Rock moves merch and gets ratings, he as champ would make WWE more money than Ziggler would in a whole year. WWE is still a business and Rock as champion is good for business.

Tyson Kidd was rapidly going to the top? Well I must've missed that. Unless you mean a roll-up victory over Tensai (who's fallen to comedy jobber status) means you're getting a push..
I'm really glad the supposed pushes of Kidd, DiBiase and Ryder got dropped. Kidd doesn't belong in the main event, simple as that. He's a great wrestler but lacks any kind of charisma and wouldn't be able to carry a top-fued.
I haven't seen a pushed wrestler as un-over as DiBiase since the days of Snitsky, nobody cared about him at all, he's the definition of a generic CAW. This guy should never even get close to the main event.

And Ryder is just a midcarder for life. He was pretty cool in the beginning when fans chanted for him and he finally got some tv time. Then he got alot of tv time and was exposed, it became clear he was only average and he went back to jobbing.

Btw I'm not disputing that WWE is terrible at pushing wrestlers, but those examples you mentioned (apart from Rhodes) didn't do your argument any favors.

[DeviousOne]

After the epic promo Cm Punk dropped on the rock 2 weeks ago I would love to see Punks Reign continue! If the rock wins the title he has to show up on raw every week or ill be upset. We don't know what's going to happen but we won't have to guess for long since RR is this sunday! (Finally) I'm looking forward to the RR and Raw tonight should get interesting.

[Yuuichi]

Those who do tour are getting paid for it, I'm sure they're not complaining. My opinion is still that Rock shouldn't necessarily do house shows if he has the title. WWE has enough talent on the roster to create a main event for those shows that will sell tickets without the need of a title.
Rock might get the title 3 months, are you saying you'd rather have someone else like Ziggler have a meaningless 3 month reign and then drop the title to Cena?
Rock moves merch and gets ratings, he as champ would make WWE more money than Ziggler would in a whole year. WWE is still a business and Rock as champion is good for business.

Tyson Kidd was rapidly going to the top? Well I must've missed that. Unless you mean a roll-up victory over Tensai (who's fallen to comedy jobber status) means you're getting a push..
I'm really glad the supposed pushes of Kidd, DiBiase and Ryder got dropped. Kidd doesn't belong in the main event, simple as that. He's a great wrestler but lacks any kind of charisma and wouldn't be able to carry a top-fued.
I haven't seen a pushed wrestler as un-over as DiBiase since the days of Snitsky, nobody cared about him at all, he's the definition of a generic CAW. This guy should never even get close to the main event.

And Ryder is just a midcarder for life. He was pretty cool in the beginning when fans chanted for him and he finally got some tv time. Then he got alot of tv time and was exposed, it became clear he was only average and he went back to jobbing.

Btw I'm not disputing that WWE is terrible at pushing wrestlers, but those examples you mentioned (apart from Rhodes) didn't do your argument any favors.

It is not a meaningless 3 month tho. It is a guy ending the reign of the longest running champion in recent years and that is saying something big.

If they wanted rating then they should have been smart and brought back undertaker to end punk title run because Undertaker didn't quit to go make movies. I have no problem with rock showing up once a year, but if he is going to do that then I feel it should def not be in title picture. A great Taker vs Punk fued leading up to WM and not knowing what may happen is more interisting then knowing Rock is going to win and drop to Cena at WM, with punk in all likely hood going on a 3 month losing streaking supposing he faces Taker at WM. Odds are in Taker favor to win.