1080p? 60FPS? Why not some better graphics?

[MBS D@v!d]

Hi,

The human eye can't notice framerates above 24 frames per second. So a game would have to run at 30 FPS to look ultra smooth for our eyes. (why 30FPS: there is a little bit room left, for example when there's a lot going on on screen the framerate drops down to 24-25 FPS)

I think in this generation (PS3, Xbox360) the best resolution is 720p. Why do developers try to get a game running at 1080p @ 60FPS? Why don't they add more physics, graphics, better textures? 1080p @ 30FPS would also be enough for our eyes, but there could be some nicer graphics/physics. And why not to render the game in 720p at 30FPS? They could add much more physics, graphics, things going on on screen etc.

Why do people make a hype about 60FPS? Okay, 1080p is really cool when you own an HDTV that's able to output 1080p, but 30FPS would be enough.

My opinion is that developers should focus on games that run at 720p at 30-40FPS, but adding better graphics, textures, physics, AI, whatever.

What do you think?

David

[Vattu]

some studios want to introduce 100Hz movies to make it look real. There IS something extra in playing games at 60 fps

[REFLEX]

100Hz movies look dumb. The reason film looks the way it does is because its 24fps, it gives it that feel and look. The digital films we shot were all in 60 at the end, a true 60 and it definitely looked digital and high quality, it was...... not film like at all and I don't think that translates well at all to the big screen.

Anyways, I tend to agree. But if they can spend extra time working on it and making it the greatest thing.. then sure... 1080p @60fps if they can.. Im hoping God of War III does indeed have 1080p, that would be awesome.

[dogfish1983]

Heavenly sword runs at 720p and 30fps, that's a start.

The way I see it is the resolution and framefrate are last on the list when developing a game..developers have to make a bad ass game, and then worry about what resolution to put it at...If heavenly sword ran at 1080p and 60fps, we know it would be half as great.

[ss4ya]

surely at 1080p the possibility for the graphics to be better would be greater than at 720, i dont know too much about all these numbers so im just guessing.

[madcat10]

i dont know if there is a differance on and console rather than a pc but when i play games like world of warcraft, i can really tell a diff when the framerate jumpes from 30 fps to 60 fps

[Muzikguy]

I don't own a 1080p tv yet anyway. They're still pretty expensive. But playing Oblivion in 720p looks beautiful. My 1080i tv works just fine for me. Not many of the games yet are putting out 1080p anyway, at least not on the PS3 (which I find rather odd). But yeah 60fps is kind of crazy. Those games would move fast.

[Calabrese]

If you look on a panning shot on a film (this is noticable on some shots of Planet Earth) you can see the image jumping slightly, this is because 24fps isn't going to give you super smooth mvement. You can tell a difference betwn 30fps and 60fps

[ecchichuu]

OP is the second guy I've seen here who can't tell the difference b/w 60fps and 30fps. That's very surprising to me since I think the two are like night and day. I definitely want any fast, competitive game to be running at 60fps.

I do think that it's a waste of processing power to make 1080p games at this point. The low understanding on how to utilize the PS3 and low distribution of 1080p TVs doesn't warrant it. In 2010, it'll probably be worth doing 1080p, but not now. I said this before but I'll say it again... I think the current 1080p games just look like really good high res PS2 games instead of actual PS3 games.

[IPB]

Lair is going to be 1080p with great textures and tons of physics. It's going to be mind blowing. If you have a 1080p tv and 7.1 uncompressed PCM surround sound then it will be the most next gen experience to date, it'll be incredible!

[LordNoob]

The graphical differences between a game running in 1080p at 60 fps and 720p running at 30fps would be negligible. The rate at which objects are moving is the only difference that I notice.

So with that said, Heavenly Sword will look just as good as Ninja Gaiden Sigma/Lair yo. =D

[ConteZero]

Films are made at 24Hz, so 24Hz (if propely used, with some adjustment like motion blur) should be enough for everyone.
Anyway HDMI1.3a should be able to reach 1080p@60hz (something less due to bandwidth consideration when dealing with complex audio formats), normal HDMI (single TDMS channel @165MHz) can go up to 1080p@30Hz (that's the top limit for most TV sets out there).
As far as I know almost no TV can work at exactly 24Hz...

[Grinchy]

OP is the second guy I've seen here who can't tell the difference b/w 60fps and 30fps. That's very surprising to me since I think the two are like night and day.

That's because there is an enormous difference between 30 and 60 frames per second. When you are getting over 60fps, then it becomes harder to really see the difference.

You can run the original Counterstrike at 120fps if you want. You may not see the difference between that and 60 fps, but anyone should be able to see the difference between 30 and 60. If someone says they can't it probably means they just don't really know what the difference is.

60 frames per second is a perfect framerate for games in my opinion. Developers are always trying to push hardware, so it's just not possible to have completely new levels of lighting, physics, animation, textures, and geometry all running at 60fps. If it can be done with a game though, it should be.

Resolution is a whole different discussion. Some people might not be able to see the difference between 720p and 1080p, but I sure can. If a game is running at 1080p and 60fps it looks incredibly crisp and smooth.

[chartwel]

im abnormal because i can tell the difference

as long as a game is a solid 30 though, then i wont mind. however, its much easier to see framerate drops when its 30 fps, thats why i dont like it, because not every developer seems to get a solid 30.

[ConteZero]

You see the difference because a 30fps game is made from 30 still frame images, a 24fps "film" is made of blurred movements (try at home with a DVD and the "pause" boutton).
Without a proper "smart motion blur" there's no way to fake movements but increase fps.

[rikwakefield]

Blame the Sony hype machine.

They pimped up 1080p@60fps (or should I say "True HD") for aaaaaages when they thought the 360 couldn't do it - they even went as far to say that *every* game would be 1080p@60fps . This pimping is the reason developers have had to step up and try for the coveted 1080p@60fps or they fear Joe Public, fresh from the Sony hype machine, will think their game is old hat or not good enough if it's 720p.

[Staticneuron]

Hi,

The human eye can't notice framerates below 24 frames per second. So a game would have to run at 30 FPS to look ultra smooth for our eyes. (why 30FPS: there is a little bit room left, for example when there's a lot going on on screen the framerate drops down to 24-25 FPS)

I think in this generation (PS3, Xbox360) the best resolution is 720p. Why do developers try to get a game running at 1080p @ 60FPS? Why don't they add more physics, graphics, better textures? 1080p @ 30FPS would also be enough for our eyes, but there could be some nicer graphics/physics. And why not to render the game in 720p at 30FPS? They could add much more physics, graphics, things going on on screen etc.

Why do people make a hype about 60FPS? Okay, 1080p is really cool when you own an HDTV that's able to output 1080p, but 30FPS would be enough.

My opinion is that developers should focus on games that run at 720p at 30-40FPS, but adding better graphics, textures, physics, AI, whatever.

What do you think?

David

conte got it right. There is a difference between games and film. The thinking is that you cannot really see film faster than 24 FPS. But there are many other variables to that and each of those variables may look off because of the framerate. In the gaming world most animations are frame based including particles. So you will notice a big difference, especially when there are a lot of particles on the screen.

[mrnagy88]

Well, I don't know about all of you, but when my CRT monitor is at 60hz refresh rates, it drives me mad...
I can see it refreshing, and I want to throw the monitor down some stairs, cause it bothers me..
70hz + for me is fine. (Yes, I know refresh rates are a different bla bla bla, but how different?)

[Yuk-Yuk]

conte got it right. There is a difference between games and film. The thinking is that you cannot really see film faster than 24 FPS. But there are many other variables to that and each of those variables may look off because of the framerate. In the gaming world most animations are frame based including particles. So you will notice a big difference, especially when there are a lot of particles on the screen.

Very true I notice a difference when there is lots of particles on the screen.

[SpaceMonkeyDave]

the difference between 30fps and 60fps?
play unreal tournament at 30fps, and then play it at 60fps

you will notice a difference

same with balls on the walls racing games

[LordNoob]

Blame the Sony hype machine.

They pimped up 1080p@60fps (or should I say "True HD") for aaaaaages when they thought the 360 couldn't do it - they even went as far to say that *every* game would be 1080p@60fps . This pimping is the reason developers have had to step up and try for the coveted 1080p@60fps or they fear Joe Public, fresh from the Sony hype machine, will think their game is old hat or not good enough if it's 720p.

You mean when Sony and everyone else thought Microsoft stated 1080p was not necessary? Could you provide a link indicating "every"? I thought Sony stated that 1080p@60fps can be done on every game. Meh oh well.

Sony has a hype machine. Wow. I wonder if Ken took that. Incoming lawsuit. =D

[Silo]

FACT - Human Beings can easily detect the difference
between 30 FPS and 60 FPS

FACT - Most pc gamers can't run modern games at 60 FPS

FACT - Ninja Gaiden Sigma is gonna rock the house down
at 60 FPS. As we can already see in the one 60 FPS video
available on GameVideos.com

FACT - You can use a CRT monitor for 1080p

FACT - Poly count, shader work, and FPS can be higher in 720p games.

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/10182

[LiQuiFiedArt]

60fps and 30fps is a huge difference. ALl games should be at the 60fps mark. The smoothness of the game is what it should be. Lately during the last 2yrs or so games are trying to out do eachother in graphics and are now competing at the 30fps level with "Who has the Bigger Graphics pee-pee". Truth is Ninja Gaiden looks great, and plays outstanding because of the smoothness of the game.

I give NG:S A+, and i'd like to see more games follow this trend.

[LittleB69]

Hi,

The human eye can't notice framerates below 24 frames per second. So a game would have to run at 30 FPS to look ultra smooth for our eyes. (why 30FPS: there is a little bit room left, for example when there's a lot going on on screen the framerate drops down to 24-25 FPS)

I think in this generation (PS3, Xbox360) the best resolution is 720p. Why do developers try to get a game running at 1080p @ 60FPS? Why don't they add more physics, graphics, better textures? 1080p @ 30FPS would also be enough for our eyes, but there could be some nicer graphics/physics. And why not to render the game in 720p at 30FPS? They could add much more physics, graphics, things going on on screen etc.

Why do people make a hype about 60FPS? Okay, 1080p is really cool when you own an HDTV that's able to output 1080p, but 30FPS would be enough.

My opinion is that developers should focus on games that run at 720p at 30-40FPS, but adding better graphics, textures, physics, AI, whatever.

What do you think?

David

My opinion is that developers should focus on making a good game/engine/story and so forth and when that is done.. they can spend some time on the graphics. A great game with decent graphics will sell 10 times more than a decent game with great graphics. If the developer can do both that would be ultimate.. but today it seems like they spend 80% of time making graphics and when they are done someone starts to develop a decent engine and story if we are lucky.

[VG Aficionado]

Hi,

The human eye can't notice framerates below 24 frames per second. So a game would have to run at 30 FPS to look ultra smooth for our eyes. (why 30FPS: there is a little bit room left, for example when there's a lot going on on screen the framerate drops down to 24-25 FPS)

Not only you confuse the adverbs "above" and "below", but whatever you mean there, is just utterly wrong. The vast majority of people with healthy eyes can tell the difference just fine. I can tell the difference all the time, and so many other gamers do. Even people who only watch TV can tell the difference. It really doesn't depend on anything, it's simply that it is noticeable indeed.

Ignorance is daring.