Why Didn't Sony Help The Developers??

[THE FORS]

ok no flaming here just want peoples take on this....

we all know whether we like it or not, that the PS3 is a difficult beast to program for...

...and we all know that the PS3 is capable of producing some great looking games.....

SO........

when Sony built the architecture for the cell they MUST....and i repeat...MUST have known the difficulties developers would have trying to squeeze the best out of the machine.....then why weren't they given the best support from the off???

now i know you're gonna say this has been well documented....but my arguement isn't with them recieving DEV kits late....my arguement is more about the schemetics of the machine WHILST it was being developed.....why wasn't the process discussed with the developers?????....you know telling them under a NDA whats being done what they'll need to do, this square peg fits this round hole etc etc

OK I'M FRUSTRATED AT THE LACK OF DROP DEAD GORGEOUS GAMES....

.....but why as a major corporation, has Sony only now released a development engine/tool (whatever you wanna call it) EDGE to developers this late in the game?????

i don't regret 1 minute about buying the PS3.....but released a year later than the 'other' console of similar power, i was expecting a fair bit more than what i have now

i know , i know give them time 'wait for E3'...., i just think serious answers need to be asked

[Necrom]

Wow why cant i create a topic was i banned or something?

[IPB]

One word, Devstation. Do you know what that is?

[TheNatural]

Sony didn't help the developers much with the PS1 and PS2(which was supposedly more of a nightmare to program for than the PS3) so why would they all of a sudden think they had to?

[Grym]

Actually they are helping developers. It's just that it takes time to make these tools and I believe they are giving priority to 1st parties which also needs their help.

The key here is that they are 1 year after 360 in basically everything.

[THE FORS]

One word, Devstation. Do you know what that is?

don't patronise yes i do, but that still doesn't answer why the development process wasn't discussed much earlier on under NDA'S with the MAIN developers???

i can throw single worded answers around....but surely you as a gamer must be annoyed and puzzled as to why we haven't had killer AAA titles which blow the competition out of the water??....lets be honest....Sony's support for developers has been nothing short of shambolic

some answers are needed...as well as assurrances.....

....i'm sure i'm not the only one who's feeling edgy about E3

[EVILEMPIRE]

don't patronise yes i do, but that still doesn't answer why the development process wasn't discussed much earlier on under NDA'S with the MAIN developers???

i can throw single worded answers around....but surely you as a gamer must be annoyed and puzzled as to why we haven't had killer AAA titles which blow the competition out of the water??....lets be honest....Sony's support for developers has been nothing short of shambolic

some answers are needed...as well as assurrances.....

....i'm sure i'm not the only one who's feeling edgy about E3

why dont you e-mail sony and ask this question see wat they say lol

[IPB]

Calm down, you're going to give yourself skin failure.

How do you know development wasn't discussed much earlier. Like you said they could have been, and still are, under NDAs not to talk about it.

They don't have any killer titles because it has been less than a year since launch. The 360 didn't have any AAA killer apps until gears came out, and that was a year after launch. The Wii doesn't have any killer apps, its getting by on novelty. The PS3 will have some killer apps later this year with LAIR, Warhawk, The Agency (out this year?), Metal Gear Solid, Unchartered (that out this year?), littlebigplanet. Not to mention Home.

It takes time dingus, relax.

[illusionstj]

Well, its probably just the same as why it takes a while for them to develop games. It takes them a while to develop a new engine/tool kit. Cell is something completely different than whats been seen before, and even though they had the ideas of what they wanted it to do, they couldn't start coding out an engine for developers while it was still being made. For some reason I'm tripping over words to use, must be because I'm tired, but I hope you understand what I mean.

[THE FORS]

Calm down, you're going to give yourself skin failure.

How do you know development wasn't discussed much earlier. Like you said they could have been, and still are, under NDAs not to talk about it.

They don't have any killer titles because it has been less than a year since launch. The 360 didn't have any AAA killer apps until gears came out, and that was a year after launch. The Wii doesn't have any killer apps, its getting by on novelty. The PS3 will have some killer apps later this year with LAIR, Warhawk, The Agency (out this year?), Metal Gear Solid, Unchartered (that out this year?), littlebigplanet. Not to mention Home.

It takes time dingus, relax.

i aint stressed.....;-P

i agree with the statement about the 360 and the Wii not getting killer apps till a while after their consoles were released, but the whole gaming structure has changed.....Sony had a good look at the other console before it was released....they MUST have had a chance to see what the 'competition' was capable of....so if as you say the developers were maybe given early access to the machine....why has Sony only just recently released EDGE????

surely this type of aide should have been there at the beginning???? i mean the PS3 is they're baby....they should've known what it was capable of

i take it a dingus is a term for a 'brummie'?...cheeky sod

[Pizza_Lover]

i think most reasonable people can agree sony probaby was a bit arogant this time around and think they had next-gen sewed up no problme. they forgot bout the wii. if it was just ps3 vs. 360 then thye might be doing beter. and then devs would bring out games quicker. but cuz of the slow sales the games r coming out slow too. icant accept sony didnt help devs earlier. i think many unreleased ps3 game is ready but publisher jsut dont want to release them until more ps3s get sold. if sony drop the price, then the sells go up and then devs start releasing more games.

[Loudninja]

Wow why cant i create a topic was i banned or something?

No you have to have a certain amount of posts to make a topic

[THE FORS]

Well, its probably just the same as why it takes a while for them to develop games. It takes them a while to develop a new engine/tool kit. Cell is something completely different than whats been seen before, and even though they had the ideas of what they wanted it to do, they couldn't start coding out an engine for developers while it was still being made. For some reason I'm tripping over words to use, must be because I'm tired, but I hope you understand what I mean.

yes but surely you don't build a machine then say....'LETS SEE WHAT IT CAN DO?'

it should be a case of ....'WE WANT IT TO DO THIS SO WE WILL BUILD THIS TO MAKE IT DO THAT'

....and thats why i think the developers should've had a better insight into this...if the developers have been invoved all the way along , then if E3 doesn't produce some graphically stunning games, then i'll believe that the PS3 is truly a monster to develope for and we won't see the best out of the machine for a good few years to come

[sevendesigns]

They are helping the developers a lot more than they did for the PS2 within the same time frame.

[IPB]

They only recently released EDGE because it takes a while to develop these sorts of things. It would have been nice if it could have been released a year or two before launch so the launch games could have been amazing. But would EDGE have been able to make the most of the PS3 hardware if it did? Probably not.
These things are ready when they're ready, there's no point rushing them or they might not work as well.

[THE FORS]

They are helping the developers a lot more than they did for the PS2 within the same time frame.

i agree they are helping them a lot more....NOW....but with the change over from last gen to this gen costing millions upon millions, they should have been there earleir into the transistion.....they REALLY didn't help themselves or the developers as much as what you say....they were on the market first last time out of the 2 main competitors....this time they were last....so every main developer will stick to an easier developing tool what they were use to....i.e the 360( which is basically a pc )

i just don't think they have learnt anything from last gen and are now paying the price and playing catch up

[Byuu]

I believe Sony have done, fine in helping devs this time round considering it was alot worse with the ps2 and look at how that turned out, at first before playsationEDGE came out, i would hear devs saying its hard to program for, but now i'm hearing more devs say wow, once you actually begin to understand the cell programing isnt so hard no more.

Like anything it takes time for devs to actually pick up a new format.

I don't see people learning 50 minute piano pieces in a day when they haven't ever touched a piano and i don't see people driving a car like a pro V8 Supercars pro (or in americas case NASCAR) when they get in one for the first time.

[sevendesigns]

^^ They are catching up faster than you think.

[THE FORS]

They only recently released EDGE because it takes a while to develop these sorts of things. It would have been nice if it could have been released a year or two before launch so the launch games could have been amazing. But would EDGE have been able to make the most of the PS3 hardware if it did? Probably not.
These things are ready when they're ready, there's no point rushing them or they might not work as well.

ok let me ask you a question???

would you buy a state of the art DVD player without any instructions how to use it???

then have the manufacturer say a year down the line 'HERES THE INSTRUCTIONS.....SORRY ITS BEEN LATE BUT WE'VE ONLY JUST REALISED HOW TO GET THE BEST OUT OF IT'?????

as i said previous it should of been a case of....'THIS IS WHAT WE WANT IT TO DO...SO THIS IS WHAT WE'LL BUILD'

NOT

'WE'LL BUILD THIS AND HOPE IT'LL DO THIS'???

[coffeerox]

the fors all your post is, is speculation. You have no idea what happens actually behind the scenes. it's not even worth discussing.

[Byuu]

would you buy a state of the art DVD player without any instructions how to use it???

then have the manufacturer say a year down the line 'HERES THE INSTRUCTIONS.....SORRY ITS BEEN LATE BUT WE'VE ONLY JUST REALISED HOW TO GET THE BEST OUT OF IT'?????

as i said previous it should of been a case of....'THIS IS WHAT WE WANT IT TO DO...SO THIS IS WHAT WE'LL BUILD'

NOT

'WE'LL BUILD THIS AND HOPE IT'LL DO THIS'???

As i said before it takes time, Sony didn't even know how to get the full potential of their machines until they actually started making their 1st party games, i mean they had to start from scratch, and now their helping 3rd party devs out with what they found they could do while making their 1st party games.

[THE FORS]

^^ They are catching up faster than you think.

i hope as a gamer you are right...and i hope that E3 will give me and other discerned (no regrets about buying the PS3) gamers something to say 'THIS IS WHAT MY CONSOLE CAN DO...AND THIS IS WHY YOURS CAN'T DO THIS'

....anyway i still stand by statement that they should have prepared a tool like EDGE at the start of the consoles life....to accommodate the obvious difficulties developers have squeezing the best out of the PS3

[THE FORS]

the fors all your post is, is speculation. You have no idea what happens actually behind the scenes. it's not even worth discussing.

games are not speculation....visuals speak for themselves....developers have commented....

.....look i do believe that Sony have woken up to comments about the PS3 and i do believe that they are trying to rectify the situation.....but i have my concerns like everyone

ANYWAY..

......i don't mean to sound nasty but why post if you don't want to discuss it???

[IPB]

ok let me ask you a question???

would you buy a state of the art DVD player without any instructions how to use it???

then have the manufacturer say a year down the line 'HERES THE INSTRUCTIONS.....SORRY ITS BEEN LATE BUT WE'VE ONLY JUST REALISED HOW TO GET THE BEST OUT OF IT'?????

as i said previous it should of been a case of....'THIS IS WHAT WE WANT IT TO DO...SO THIS IS WHAT WE'LL BUILD'

NOT

'WE'LL BUILD THIS AND HOPE IT'LL DO THIS'???

Yeah I would because I know how to use a DVD player and playing around with it would eventually get it working.

[Byuu]

they should have prepared a tool like EDGE at the start of the consoles life....to accommodate the obvious difficulties developers have squeezing the best out of the PS3

Considering their predictions of the consoles life is a good 4-5 years, don't you think 5-6 months after the consoles release and the their starting lineup of games had been finished and they actually had some experience to share with other devs is at the beginning of the consoles life? I mean the console has barely started into life, we haven't even gotten our first wave titles yet, the only titles which really have been released are the launch and late launch titles, which all the developers had to figure out what the PS3 could do from scratch, because not even sony had tested their console fully yet.