I understand the "do not feed the trolls" part

[Lefein]

What I don't understand is the personal-attack, thread derailing, righteously indignant, repeat offender troll back into the playground part..

http://www.ps3forums.com/showpost.ph...9&postcount=17
Look who came back to play.

The least you guys could do is send me an explanation. This guy's life blood purpose is to derail my threads. You can't even deny it. If you guys want me to go, then just ask me politely. Don't ding me for having an opinion on Halo2 and throw a John Elway Cross to the back of my head. I'm going to take a week off or so. You guys sort it out.

[Bakari]

What I don't understand is the personal-attack, thread derailing, righteously indignant, repeat offender troll back into the playground part..

http://www.ps3forums.com/showpost.ph...9&postcount=17
Look who came back to play.

The least you guys could do is send me an explanation. This guy's life blood purpose is to derail my threads. You can't even deny it. If you guys want me to go, then just ask me politely. Don't ding me for having an opinion on Halo2 and throw a John Elway Cross to the back of my head. I'm going to take a week off or so. You guys sort it out.

You made a tasteless comment with the sole intention of trolling, own up to it and stop blaming others.

[Lefein]

You made a tasteless comment with the sole intention of trolling, own up to it and stop blaming others.

No, I said it as a fan of Half-Life2. I said it as a gamer. In my OPINION Halo2 did suck and was a major let down for me. What I said literally flew from my fingertips without a second thought, and it was not my intent to offend anyone. I honestly hope KillZone2 re-ligitimizes console FPS gaming just like Halo 1 did for the Xbox. But there are a lot of games out there worth getting. The conversation had veered to the KillZone vs Halo thing before I chimed in.

Is it an unwritten rule to not have an opinion of the supposed "super franchise"? Anyways I'm out. I figured someone would pipe in and miscatogrize the intent of my thread and derail it. Now that I have explained myself. I will be on my way.

[Bakari]

You are completely entitled to your opinion, but the issue was the fact that you downplayed Halo in a thread strictly about Killzone 2 hype in a Playstation 3 section. The comment, while minor IMO, was certainly off topic and at a quick glance seemed like flame baiting. While you did not directly derail the topic, you certainly did have a part in steering it further off course. It just seemed like a very witty fanboyish comment IMO, atleast that is the way I saw it.

[Lefein]

You are completely entitled to your opinion, but the issue was the fact that you downplayed Halo in a thread strictly about Killzone 2 hype in a Playstation 3 section. The comment, while minor IMO, was certainly off topic and at a quick glance seemed like flame baiting. While you did not directly derail the topic, you certainly did have a part in steering it further off course. It just seemed like a very witty fanboyish comment IMO, atleast that is the way I saw it.

Well, you're right in that respect. It looks off color and it could be construed as vitriolic. For that, I honestly do apologize. If you want to see what an honest to God Apples to Apples review of Halo2 looks like here you go:
http://www.gamespot.com/video/932095...2-video-review

The game got brownie points for being on a console, the first game actually made the console. Dare I say it, but KillZone 2 just seems like the Luke Skywalker of FPSes as a console owner. The only game we've seen that compares is Crysis on the level of physics, animation, and graphics. Anyways, that's not even the reason Im taking a break. I got dinged fair and square and I can explain myself but I won't say that it was totally undeserved. I'm more mad about that other thing.

[Xaor]

I'll bite lefein, aside from the whole GS Kid thing because I really don't have much background knowledge of him, about what you said about Killzone 2.

Maybe KillZone2 will rock as much as Halo2 sucked.

You aren't a stupid poster, you're an intelligent poster and you're an important part of the forum, but you're also known to be a person who is very much on the PlayStation side, and a fair few would go as far to say you are a fanboy. You got infracted for this post that I quoted for flamebaiting. Now, malicious or not, intentional or not, it is a flamebait. You must have known when you posted that what type of reply it would warrant. Just because the worm doesn't want to be eaten by a fish doesn't mean it isn't bait. There was a very high chance that what you posted would cause a flame, or worse a flamewar, and ultimately, you shouldn't have posted it. Maybe you should be ABLE to post it, but essentially on this forum and I'd imagine on any forum in the circumstances surrounding your reputation and the forum's... easily flammable nature at the moment, you can't, and that I think is as good a reason as any to give you a warning, or an infraction because what you did was foolish, though in actuality it didn't get too much backlash.

Just my thoughts on it.

[Mikleran]

So you're comparing Killzone 2 to a PC port of the best selling Xbox 1 (i.e last gen) title that not only is 3 years old graphics-wise but has been screwed up by the developers who were doing it (IE not Bungie)?

This is part of why I have little respect for you Lefein.. you twist everything to make(/imply) the Xbox seem bad or to support any argument you're making, rather than using solid facts. 'PGR4 have modified their engine because of DVD9", "Maybe they had a look at the texture pop-in on Forza 2 and..", "Halo 2 (um PC.. but I won't mention that part) was crap" are just three recent examples I can think of.. it's been like this all the time I've been on here. I couldn't care less about the dissing of the Xbox but the spreading of fake stuff around the PS3-fans only amplifies the current fanboy situation both on this forum and then everywhere.

Anyway, are you above just reporting a post?

[The_One]

Lefein, you could have simply reported the post GS Kid made if you think he was trolling your thread or creating a flamebait. You don't have to create a new thread here every time something happens between you an Aquanox or GS Kid.

[Lefein]

Lefein, you could have simply reported the post GS Kid made if you think he was trolling your thread or creating a flamebait. You don't have to create a new thread here every time something happens between you an Aquanox or GS Kid.

I've reported him quite enough and he was banned for his actions. Anyways, I'm about due for some time away, anyways. I don't wish the board any ill will by any means. I just want to get away from some of the politics for a while. I've noticed that a lot of people seem to get a license to take pot shots at me and demean my opinion for the simple fact that I am looked upon as some kind of ultra PS3 fanboy.

The fact of the matter is, I've been begging for a reason to justify getting a 360 despite my post in the SMC section over a year ago. I've had the money and I've had the time, but I haven't had the desire. If anything, I'm more let down by the way this next gen is playing out more than anyone. The Wii came out totally underpowered and reliant on a single feature while lacking almost completely in online gaming up to this point. The 360 is the milkage monster spawned forth from the sixth layer of hell AND is about as reliable as a heroin addict. For all this, I must be the bad guy.

I've given every mentally deficient "Xbot" on the internet a lightning rod to take a wipe at. There are trolls here who literally make a claim to fame by trying to take me down and now that the Xbox love boat is starting to take on water, I expect them to lash out harder than ever. I don't want to be around for it and I certainly don't want to see them come back from the dead like seems to be the case. I fully expect the crap to fly like tubgirl as an empire and its lackies struggle to make sense of yet another failure. They can do it on their own without my help. There's only one thing to do when you are tired of being right when arguing with morons. I apologize if my aggravation took a toll on my posting quality.

[Bitbydeath]

Lefein my friend i think we are in a time of cleaning up here, mods are in full force like a cyclone through an alleyway.

There will be innocents taken along the way but in the end it will be for the good of the forums. I've gone through all those frustrations you have and had taken time off myself, we are now at a time where more detailed comments are required, eg i don't like Halo 2 because... and this is why it is not as good as Half-life 2, rather than Halo 2 sucks.

I think once the storm has settled the forum will become less regulated as it is now but i think we have to ride it out til it's over and try not to get in it's way.

I did not read the everything throughout the thread so maybe your post was justified if being the case i think you should alert the mod that caught you on it and explain why that was your response.

And don't worry while there are people that derail threads there time here will be coming to an end soon as the mods are not taking anything lightly for the time being.

Hope that helps dude cause you do make great posts and i for one do not want to see you leave these forums

[RedSand426]

The only thing GS kid ever says in a post is... oh god not another xbox 360 bashing thread... we already have countless others we don't need anymore. He can say that in so many ways its unbelievable.

Whether it's true or not isn't the point. The fact that the DVD-9 hindrance issue has been discussed to death on here in numerous threads as has the question of whether we are willing to put up with...

I can't believe you made a thread based on an anti-Microsoft blog and didn't expect a flame war. And this coming from a guy who doesn't even own a 360.


Unless you give us more then this blog quote,...

360 fans squirm?!?! We aren't the ones making 10 whining threads when a game goes to another platform.

An excuse to dump on the 360 or haven't you figured that out by now?!?! It's been happening on here for the 2+ years I've been here and it's only gotten worse.

Thank goodness some sanity has returned. This thread should never have been unstickied in the first place. I asked Morpheus to make this a sticky with good reason and it was made so after other...

I can't believe a vet like you made a thread that's been posted many times by others. It's almost laughable now. Where's your new angle??!?! Cuz I'm not seeing it.

But you know this simply looks like a PS3/Sony Vs. 360/Microsoft thread ....right?!?!

I know you aren't that naive when you were simply telling us your experience. I think you know how these threads...

Just a few quotes I found in like 1 minute so yeah...... you get my point.

Lefein don't be bothered with people like this... just be humored by them.

[Bakari]

If LoudNinja's infraction was lifted, so should Lefein's. LoudNinja's comment was every bit as flamebaitish and he is IMO the most Playstation person on this forum (Hell, that I have ever seen...). If his was lifted, so should the one Lefein got.

But eh... that post of yours doesnt help things :P

[Fekz]

GS Kid is banned like once every two weeks. How he's avoided a perma ban where others haven't is beyond me.

[SnakeDevil]

Theres not many reasons to be annoyed at GS Kid, just be pleased and appreciate the time that he has left here and savour every moment, because that guy receives a lot of infractions and as we all know, those infraction points add up, even a mod here said that he's on his last legs here, he'll probably get an infraction for trolling and..whoosh his time here will be over, just put up with him for a while longer and have him on your ignore list and then wait for the day that you go to the infractions section and you see "perma-banned: GS Kid"

[JordanL]

If LoudNinja's infraction was lifted, so should Lefein's. LoudNinja's comment was every bit as flamebaitish and he is IMO the most Playstation person on this forum (Hell, that I have ever seen...). If his was lifted, so should the one Lefein got.

But eh... that post of yours doesnt help things :P

I gave LN his infraction, I lifted it. I'm not going to second guess another mod's judgement like that... if we lift it or if I wanted to lift it I would have a discussion with the mod that gave it to him.

As it is, the reason I lifted the infraction was given... the infraction served its purpose, I didn't think it should count against LN in the future.

[FantasyStar]

Interesting, statements that should've been harmless is censored on the basis of maintaining order. If derailing threads means keeping the main topic fresh and contribute to conversation, then I believe that derailing is ok. Using the word 'derailing' is incredulous as it only dictates a negative feeling.

GS_Kid has been known to be a watchdog in said threads, but I've also known him to have a civil head so I try his reason for his post AKA, debating it. However the trend I see is that when someone feels the slightest insecurity and fears the main thread turning from a Killzone 2 love-fest into Killzone vs. Halo for example. Some random poster cries out "Trolling!" or "Flamebaiting!" or my favorite "Thread Derailing!", as a means to end it there which is completely a waste. If Thread Derailing was really put into perspective, then there would be a new thread on a single subject every day with no end when the underlying issue being Halo vs. Killzone dispersed into 20 different thread topics all in the name of 'thread derailing'. If people wrote essays like they create topics and try to stay on one single topic, then that essay would be essays, each with their own title and main topic with the foundation lost in the many topics and essays that barely make sense all because someone wants to keep a topic singular and in one direction only.

Security vs. Freedom, I'd say. You can't trust 13-17 year olds to think outside the box anymore than you can trust 18-35 year olds to write a grammatically complete sentence without being tempted to report a post or cry out "Trolling!" or "Flamebaiting!" or "Thread Derailing!". If mods were trained more in their approach and took more time to analyze the situation from multiple angles could this whole fiasco of who is trolling and who is really trying to get a hot topic moving end righteously.

People, there's a fine line between a hard-troll and a normal objective poster. Just because Lefein said that Halo 2 sucked in a Killzone 2 thread doesn't mean he's trying to derail it for the worse. I saw it as him stating his opinion as a gamer based on what he thought of Killzone 2 as. But people online love to jump the gun sometimes, and even mods as well. I've seen worser from people like Japjap.

[JordanL]

The lockdown on 'MGS4 going to Xbox360' auto-infractions is a testament to how little insight mods know.

How would that be? What about saying "Alright, after a year of letting people discuss this rumor once a week and having it devolve into flaming week after week, we've decided to put a stop to it until something official happens" is a testament?

I got just as much positive feedback as I did negative feedback on that one... but I don't put much stock in feedback. All the mods overwhelmingly receive negative feedback no matter what they do. No one ever says, "Hey, good job". Or even "thanks".

What would you do different than I, for instance? Specifically... not the esoteric answers your previous psot contained, that while they could be true are not helpful.

[jakncoke]

Theres not many reasons to be annoyed at GS Kid, just be pleased and appreciate the time that he has left here and savour every moment, because that guy receives a lot of infractions and as we all know, those infraction points add up, even a mod here said that he's on his last legs here, he'll probably get an infraction for trolling and..whoosh his time here will be over, just put up with him for a while longer and have him on your ignore list and then wait for the day that you go to the infractions section and you see "perma-banned: GS Kid"

I can't wait either if we had top 10 worst member list ...I'm sure he'd fit in around 2 ...I'd probably be on the list as well seeing I only hang out in the general section anymore.

[PlayStation Fascination]

Well as far a a certain 360 fan goes. I just got a PM from him. He shall remain nameless but the content was that he won't be banned due to IM's with mods and that I am being watched. A cleaning house is appartently taking place.

It seems based on what this member is saying that only 360 owners or people with the 360's best interests at heart can post in the 360 section. So if I or anyone that doesn't own a 360 or love the console posts anything deemed negative in the 360 section...look out.

If he has had IM chats with mods that assure him he won't be banned and he's telling me that mods are watching me, he should be banned for disclosing that information and using it against other members. If true this is a sad day for PS3 owners on a PS3 site.

[Fangrim]

The problem isn't that people have different opinions - if that wasn't the case, this place would be dead in a minute.

The problem is that SO **** MANY THREADS turn into a pissing contest, namecalling, bickering, and personal attacks, it's sickening.

What people need is to accept that others might not agree with them, and then debate the topic at hand in a mature way. Unfortunately it only takes one fanboyish comment from either side to ignite a thread, often derailing it into oblivion.

[JordanL]

Well as far a a certain 360 fan goes. I just got a PM from him. He shall remain nameless but the content was that he won't be banned due to IM's with mods and that I am being watched. A cleaning house is appartently taking place.

It seems based on what this member is saying that only 360 owners or people with the 360's best interests at heart can post in the 360 section. So if I or anyone that doesn't own a 360 or love the console posts anything deemed negative in the 360 section...look out.

If he has had IM chats with mods that assure him he won't be banned and he's telling me that mods are watching me, he should be banned for disclosing that information and using it against other members. If true this is a sad day for PS3 owners on a PS3 site.

*sigh*

The drama.

I had an IM chat with him, not that its anyone elses business. I have IM chats with a lot of users before they get banned, because a ban doesn't help them add to the forum... it doesn't help them become a better poster.

I'm keeping an eye on a lot of people. More than I have eyes. And his 'assurance', like any other, is contingent on some requirements that I handed him, the least of which was to report instead of flame.

But none of that is your concern. Rest assured, no one gets a free ride because they talk to a mod over an IM. All they get is a chance to explain themselves and a chance to better their posting.

I have a real problem with outright banning someone who is simply a persistent small problem instead of an obvious destructive force without first giving them a chance to change things. I am firmly of the opinion that people are capable of change, most people just refuse to.

[Fangrim]

Furthermore, it really gets to me that some people, who's outright broken the rules on this board and gets an infraction or worse, starts whining about it.

I know from other forums, where I'm moderator and/or admin, that most of the time, people realise fully that they stepped over the line, they just don't like getting caught and "punished". So they begin arguing about the validity of the moderator's judgement, often pointing out numerous posts made by others, that in their opinion is a worse offense than their own.

While I understand that, they must also understand that no matter how many mods there are on a forum, some things will slip by unnoticed.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. And don't come crying, taking on the martyr role. Moderators aren't perfect, but we try as hard as we can to rule fairly and equally. Excuse us for being human!

[PlayStation Fascination]

*sigh*

The drama.

I had an IM chat with him, not that its anyone elses business. I have IM chats with a lot of users before they get banned, because a ban doesn't help them add to the forum... it doesn't help them become a better poster.

I'm keeping an eye on a lot of people. More than I have eyes. And his 'assurance', like any other, is contingent on some requirements that I handed him, the least of which was to report instead of flame.

But none of that is your concern. Rest assured, no one gets a free ride because they talk to a mod over an IM. All they get is a chance to explain themselves and a chance to better their posting.

I have a real problem with outright banning someone who is simply a persistent small problem instead of an obvious destructive force without first giving them a chance to change things. I am firmly of the opinion that people are capable of change, most people just refuse to.

Unfortunately that person made it my business and corcern by implying that because of recent IM chats with mods that he won't be banned. He also stated that the mods were keeping a close eye on me. If true, he had no right to 1. Disclose personal information given to him and 2. Use it against me.

How much clearer can it be that this person has not and will not change their poor behaviour? Instead of coming back after being banned and being humble or learning from it, they now have the "I'm untouchable but the mods are out to get you" attitude. I find this disturbing.

[JordanL]

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. And don't come crying, taking on the martyr role.

True story. That's almost a recipie for getting permanently banned. Being self-righteous and indignant and making demands pretty much guarantees that you won't get your way. Life hasn't taught some of you that yet, but it will. The hard way or the easy way, life will teach this to you.

How much clearer can it be that this person has not and will not change their poor behaviour? Instead of coming back after being banned and being humble or learning from it, they now have the "I'm untouchable but the mods are out to get you" attitude. I find this disturbing.

I get to see more of the behavior than most, for anyone.

People don't change right away, but their actions show intent, and I see intent, both with him and with a few others.

I will tell you the same thing I told him:

Instead of complaining about me giving other users a second or third chance, help me keep track of what people are doing by reporting instead of replying. No one is untouchable, everyone plays by the same rules. He has to face the same panalties you or anyone else do, but I will not refuse to forgive someone who earnestly is attempting to change. I will keep them from getting off the track, from getting out of line, but I'm not going to go without forgiveness.

If that's what you're looking for try another mod.

If true, he had no right to 1. Disclose personal information given to him and 2. Use it against me.

He can't use it against you, because he can do nothing. Me and the other mods are the ones who can do something, and you shouldn't worry. We won't ban you without giving you the same opportunity we give him or others, which means if there is something truly wrong with the way you are acting we will talk to you about it.

[Fangrim]

Unfortunately that person made it my business and corcern by implying that because of recent IM chats with mods that he won't be banned. He also stated that the mods were keeping a close eye on me. If true, he had no right to 1. Disclose personal information given to him and 2. Use it against me.

How much clearer can it be that this person has not and will not change their poor behaviour? Instead of coming back after being banned and being humble or learning from it, they now have the "I'm untouchable but the mods are out to get you" attitude. I find this disturbing.

It has never been a secret that mods are ordinary persons, and as such, can be reasoned with.

If you feel you're being treated unfairly, by all means send a PM, explaining your point of view. As long as you're ready to accept the answer.

Regarding someone being "The Moderator's Pet", I can answer for all mods and SMCs here, that noone is safe. There is no such thing as immunity. If that's what you've been told, the person is very wrong, which he will find out the next time he oversteps the line.

Infractions are given on a one-to-one basis, of course with a glance towards the user's previous history, but always as fair as possible.